Possibilty for SWTOR to Go Full Pay-to-Win

[xkcurtisx]

Oh, my sweet summer child, brace yourself. The winter is coming.

 

well it was in the datamined files but if it actually makes it in game we ll see.

[nepochop]

Yay boosts to make the game easier for rich people!!

[Tsetso]

well it was in the datamined files but if it actually makes it in game we ll see.

 

Sure, but so far almost everything the dataminers have dug goes live.

[nepochop]

Sure, but so far almost everything the dataminers have dug goes live.

 

Heh thats funny, there r no big discussions around the class changes as ppl knew them already

[Bruticis]

Ever heard about the use of arguments to make your point? You're just saying: "lalalala I can't hear you, you're wrong".

 

I explain to you why it would be different, the gearing system is changing and is relied to the new xp. Since xp is what you'll need to gear up, an xp boost becomes a pay to win thing.

The better your gear, the easier you win, if it's easier to gear up for people who buy boosts, yes, this game becomes pay to win.

 

But keep saying "NO NO NO" if you want, with no arguments you'll hardly convince anyone.

 

I haven't seen ANY valid arguments to counter so points aren't needed. It's not pay to win, the end.

[peter_plankskull]

I haven't seen ANY valid arguments to counter so points aren't needed. It's not pay to win, the end.

 

Okay, fine, if you believe there are no valid arguments, that still doesn't mean you don't bring one up to the table. If there is nothing in terms of validity in our arguments it should be relatively easy to smash, so please do so.

[Tsillah]

Okay, fine, if you believe there are no valid arguments, that still doesn't mean you don't bring one up to the table. If there is nothing in terms of validity in our arguments it should be relatively easy to smash, so please do so.

 

Yeh but logically why would he have to disprove something that was brought to the table without any evidence to support it?

 

I could say without any reason that you are a 65 year old Russian woman who hates cornflakes. Should I then expect you to disprove it or is it more reasonable that I should prove my statement first?

[peter_plankskull]

Yeh but logically why would he have to disprove something that was brought to the table without any evidence to support it?

 

I could say without any reason that you are a 65 year old Russian woman who hates cornflakes. Should I then expect you to disprove it or is it more reasonable that I should prove my statement first?

 

I don't like cornflakes first of all .

 

I expect people to do both regardless of the circumstances. Both people should provide proof back up to there claims one way or another, and besides, there's some merit to this argument, Bruticis just doesn't want to see it.

[Tsillah]

I don't like cornflakes first of all .

 

I expect people to do both regardless of the circumstances. Both people should provide proof back up to there claims one way or another, and besides, there's some merit to this argument, Bruticis just doesn't want to see it.

 

Well one out of three ain't bad. Perhaps I should be a mentalist.

 

Let me have a look at the whole discussion to see if I missed anything, but do realise that the whole premise of this thread is pure speculation based on nothing but rumours. That's why I replied the way I did. I'd like to first know if there is any foundation for this rumours because I wouldn't want to waste my time on it, if there is no foundation.

 

Edit: I've had a look and Bruticis is being his usual self but I have this feeling this is just his way of dealing with a non-topic because as long as there is no actual foundation for these rumours it's a non-topic. As soon as there will be a real indication, arguments can be made for or against. But for a topic that has no foundation I am sure this whole topic is silly and as I said this might just be his way of showing how pointless this topic is.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Tsillah

[Bruticis]

I don't like cornflakes first of all .

 

Not even the frosted ones?

[peter_plankskull]

Well one out of three ain't bad. Perhaps I should be a mentalist.

 

Let me have a look at the whole discussion to see if I missed anything, but do realise that the whole premise of this thread is pure speculation based on nothing but rumours. That's why I replied the way I did. I'd like to first know if there is any foundation for this rumours because I wouldn't want to waste my time on it, if there is no foundation.

 

You're day job of forum PVP will be forever more important and better than anything else in life.

 

Were already past the speculation part of the thread here, and Bruticis actually agrees it is entirely possible for this to happen, it just doesn't want to acknowledge any other mindset than it's own. We can, in theory, say this is possibly true and move on from there just filling out a little part of the equation and move on with the rest to continue debating the what iffs positive/negatives.. Although I will agree that there is no fool proof ... proof... that this is happening.

[peter_plankskull]

Not even the frosted ones?

 

Okay... the frosted kellog ones yes, and probably in my all time favorite in my cereals along with fruit loops, but the normal ones NEVER!

[Bruticis]

You're day job of forum PVP will be forever more important and better than anything else in life.

 

Were already past the speculation part of the thread here, and Bruticis actually agrees it is entirely possible for this to happen, it just doesn't want to acknowledge any other mindset than it's own. We can, in theory, say this is possibly true and move on from there just filling out a little part of the equation and move on with the rest to continue debating the what iffs positive/negatives.. Although I will agree that there is no fool proof ... proof... that this is happening.

 

You want me to acknowledge people are discussing dataminded info but think they are being coy about it by wording it in vague ways? Ok, acknowledged. Better now? How about people follow the rules and stop posting about datamined info under the guise of speculation?

[Bruticis]

Okay... the frosted kellog ones yes, and probably in my all time favorite in my cereals along with fruit loops, but the normal ones NEVER!

 

I knew there was SOMETHING we could agree on at some point!

[Tsillah]

You're day job of forum PVP will be forever more important and better than anything else in life.

 

Honestly, that was just not necessary. So I have a day off were I chose to listen to music and bum around on the forum.

 

Were already past the speculation part of the thread here, and Bruticis actually agrees it is entirely possible for this to happen, it just doesn't want to acknowledge any other mindset than it's own. We can, in theory, say this is possibly true and move on from there just filling out a little part of the equation and move on with the rest to continue debating the what iffs positive/negatives.. Although I will agree that there is no fool proof ... proof... that this is happening.

 

We can see the possibility but there's not even a source for this other than some speculation by players. Based on what?

 

But ok, let's look at the what if scenario.

 

If they would implement GC boosts via the CM market as suggested would that be a big problem?

 

I don't think so.

 

So here are some arguments:

1) First of all it's something that speeds up your progress towards gear that everybody can get just the same. So it's not that you have to pay money to access maximum gear, therefore it's not pay 2 win to me. Also now xp boosts make you get to end level faster and therefore increases the speed by which you can start attaining endgame gear and therefore gives you a similar advantage. The early start will have this effect also and people leveling to 70 faster than others will also have this effect.

2) As time progresses this difference will become smaller as people will have had time to catch up. Therefore the main benefit will be to help your alts go through it faster. People need to stop staring themselves blind on the first month or two at most. There will be some gearing differences at first but that also goes for people who play 40 hours a week compared to people who play 10 hours a week.

 

 

There ya go. An opinion with argumentation.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Tsillah

[Soljin]

1) First of all it's something that speeds up your progress towards gear that everybody can get just the same. So it's not that you have to pay money to access maximum gear, therefore it's not pay 2 win to me. Also now xp boosts make you get to end level faster and therefore increases the speed by which you can start attaining endgame gear and therefore gives you a similar advantage. The early start will have this effect also and people leveling to 70 faster than others will also have this effect.

 

If they max the CXP boost @ 25% and charge out the nose for them I could laugh it off as another nail in the future of online gaming's coffin. It's just one more little step towards the end goal....redundant low price product that yields money more as a result of addiction...Oh sorry I meant RNG. Didn't get what I wanted better buy more boosts and keep grinding.....

 

 

2) As time progresses this difference will become smaller as people will have had time to catch up. Therefore the main benefit will be to help your alts go through it faster. People need to stop staring themselves blind on the first month or two at most. There will be some gearing differences at first but that also goes for people who play 40 hours a week compared to people who play 10 hours a week.

 

This is relative to the rate of progression.....The time span within which people are trying to "Catch up" could be months....

 

and of course people who put in more time would have better gear.....Oh wait! With an RNG system that may not be the case......

[Tsillah]

If they max the CXP boost @ 25% and charge out the nose for them I could laugh it off as another nail in the future of online gaming's coffin. It's just one more little step towards the end goal....redundant low price product that yields money more as a result of addiction...Oh sorry I meant RNG. Didn't get what I wanted better buy more boosts and keep grinding.....

 

 

 

 

This is relative to the rate of progression.....The time span within which people are trying to "Catch up" could be months....

 

and of course people who put in more time would have better gear.....Oh wait! With an RNG system that may not be the case......

 

It is all relative as you say but pay to win in my book is that you have to pay real money beyond the normal price of playing the game to get ACCESS to the best gear. As long as it's a matter of speed and indeed the difference isn't too ridiculous, I don't consider it pay to win.

 

That's why definitions are important.

[Soljin]

It is all relative as you say but pay to win in my book is that you have to pay real money beyond the normal price of playing the game to get ACCESS to the best gear. As long as it's a matter of speed and indeed the difference isn't too ridiculous, I don't consider it pay to win.

 

That's why definitions are important.

 

I'm pretty sure they will use this spin when they put the CXP boosts in the game....I would hope this is all rumor but I suspect we will see CXP boosters in the game....and I will bail over it...If they put these in I no longer need to speculate on this games direction.

 

To be honest I have been disappointed in the gaming industry ever since Corporations like EA started impacting game design....It's not likely to get better, the glory days of gaming is coming to an end...the current focus is to reduce gaming to that guy at the end of the bar shoving his paycheck into the little gambling machine.........Pushing one of three buttons until empty.

[Bruticis]

It is all relative as you say but pay to win in my book is that you have to pay real money beyond the normal price of playing the game to get ACCESS to the best gear. As long as it's a matter of speed and indeed the difference isn't too ridiculous, I don't consider it pay to win.

 

That's why definitions are important.

 

I agree with your assessment completely of pay to win. If someone can buy a booster and get X item in 1 day vs someone that doesn't pay for a booster to get the same item in 2 days, that's NOT pay to win at ALL.

[Tsillah]

I'm pretty sure they will use this spin when they put the CXP boosts in the game....I would hope this is all rumor but I suspect we will see CXP boosters in the game....and I will bail over it...If they put these in I no longer need to speculate on this games direction.

 

To be honest I have been disappointed in the gaming industry ever since Corporations like EA started impacting game design....It's not likely to get better, the glory days of gaming is coming to an end...the current focus is to reduce gaming to that guy at the end of the bar shoving his paycheck into the little gambling machine.........Pushing one of three buttons until empty.

 

I do not appreciate you calling it a spin. It's a definition that you may agree with or not but I am a player and that's my definition. The problem is that when people talk about concepts like pay to win in this case it is important to lay down the definitions because if you don't people are all talking about pay to win but not about the same thing because of varying definitions.

[Darkside]

Let me have a look at the whole discussion to see if I missed anything, but do realise that the whole premise of this thread is pure speculation based on nothing but rumours. That's why I replied the way I did. I'd like to first know if there is any foundation for this rumours because I wouldn't want to waste my time on it, if there is no foundation.

 

So the premise of this thread is not based on rumors, but based on factual information that is not allowed to be discussed here. The fact that those sources have repeatedly been right with well over 99% success rate for the past year, as they using Bioware's own data, pretty much ensures it's going to happen. Now with the latest round of info, it looks like cxp boost were not only retained for the upcoming expansion, but even more defined than before, and slated for the cm.

 

The reason no one is presenting evidence to back up their assertions is because the devs don't want you to know yet and won't allow it to be posted here. So before trying to knock someone off of the soapbox, maybe you should check into what they are claiming first.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Darkside

[Soljin]

I do not appreciate you calling it a spin. It's a definition that you may agree with or not but I am a player and that's my definition. The problem is that when people talk about concepts like pay to win in this case it is important to lay down the definitions because if you don't people are all talking about pay to win but not about the same thing because of varying definitions.

 

I could care less what you appreciate so lets get that straight...

 

Secondly if you want to instruct the forum base on the definition of Pay2Win that's all you. I did not use the phrase nor did I say this was specifically a P2W scenario.

 

I see the CXP booster as more of a gateway to P2W... It's as close as you can get without your player base walking off the set.

 

Recently another "Newer" Star Wars title announced its closure....due to lack of interest. In fact I established you could play the game without paying but it would take you 10x longer if not more...than a paying customer, technically not P2W....the game still failed in record time even with the Star Wars IP....it's a fine line but once you cross that subtle line your game goes empty....

Edited November 8, 2016 by Soljin

[Andryah]

I do not appreciate you calling it a spin. It's a definition that you may agree with or not but I am a player and that's my definition. The problem is that when people talk about concepts like pay to win in this case it is important to lay down the definitions because if you don't people are all talking about pay to win but not about the same thing because of varying definitions.

 

Very much agree. And your definition of Pay-2-Win is in fact the most objective.

 

The problem with the cavalier use (which is how it is often used in the forum here) of the term Pay-2-Win is that it has just become a meme for prosecuting anything you do not like in a game. Players therefore have all manner of definitions for the term, and even change them on the fly to suit the issue they are trying to "spin" themselves.

 

Some people have strong narratives they wish to prosecute in a gaming forum, so no attempt to stabilize a definition for the purposes of a discussion is going to be effective in this context.

[Tsillah]

I could care less what you appreciate so lets get that straight...

 

Right, that tells me enough about you as a person. Your agression is completely unnecessary, but clearly that won't stop you.

 

Secondly if you want to instruct the forum base on the definition of Pay2Win that's all you. I did not use the phrase nor did I say this was specifically a P2W scenario.

 

Ah I see, you are not very good at reading. My point is that people often have different definitions of concepts and that it is therefore best to share these definitions so we know what everybody is actually is talking about.

 

The idea that I am pushing my definition on others...now that is entirely you. I want people to clarify their definitions to avoid confusion

 

I see the CXP booster as more of a gateway to P2W... It's as close as you can get without your player base walking off the set.

 

And that is your opinion, but that still means it isn't pay to win even by your definition.

[Tsillah]

So the premise of this thread is not based on rumors, but based on factual information that is not allowed to be discussed here. The fact that those sources have repeatedly been right with well over 99% success rate for the past year, as they using Bioware's own data, pretty much ensures it's going to happen. Now with the latest round of info, it looks like cxp boost were not only retained for the upcoming expansion, but even more defined than before, and slated for the cm.

 

The reason no one is presenting evidence to back up their assertions is because the devs don't want you to know yet and won't allow it to be posted here. So before trying to knock someone off of the soapbox, maybe you should check into what they are claiming first.

 

Feel free to pm me these sources. I will certainly have a look at them.