Possibilty for SWTOR to Go Full Pay-to-Win

[Fardarter]

I havent seen ANYTHING in this expansion to warrant 15 bucks a month. I am a subscriber but probably wont renew in January unless I am pleasantly surprised. I am sure there are others like me. Now what happens when the non subscribers are locked out of the new content?

 

I play on Harb but I have toons on other servers and if they are a ghost town now just wait.

 

I think some suit in an office made this call without understanding how gamers are going to react.

 

Best thing might be for it to just "kill" the game.

 

That way EA has to make the decision to heavily invest or to walk away. If they walk away maybe a company that isn't afraid to spend money will pick up the IP and make a better game.

 

Having said all that. Cheap mobile games get better returns on investment so maybe this is the end of high quality MMOs.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

ETA: And if were talking about validity of IPs, I'd argue that, in the videogame world, Final Fantasy is stronger than even Star Wars.

 

Lol ... really? You really believe that? Final fantasy universe that basically recreates itself between games is somehow bigger of an IP than Star Wars? Lol.

 

Argue away.

[CorellianWannabe]

Because Star Wars video games have been so successful, right? I mean there was KOTOR, and..... I guess maybe the old Super Nintendo scrollers?

[peter_plankskull]

Because Star Wars video games have been so successful, right? I mean there was KOTOR, and..... I guess maybe the old Super Nintendo scrollers?

 

Rouge Squadron series, battlefront series (not EA), Empire at War, Republic Commando, The Force Unleashed (ps2/ps3), Star Wars Galaxies, etc. etc.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Rouge Squadron series, battlefront series (not EA), Empire at War, Republic Commando, The Force Unleashed (ps2/ps3), Star Wars Galaxies, etc. etc.

 

Battlefront (EA), Dark Forces, Dark Forces 2, Jedi Outcast, Jedi Academy all the Lego Star Wars, Tie Fighter and Xwing games etc. etc.

 

Anyone who doesn't think Star Wars isn't one of the most successful gaming IPs of all time doesn't know games.

[AllisonLightning]

Battlefront (EA), Dark Forces, Dark Forces 2, Jedi Outcast, Jedi Academy all the Lego Star Wars, Tie Fighter and Xwing games etc. etc.

 

Anyone who doesn't think Star Wars isn't one of the most successful gaming IPs of all time doesn't know games.

 

Star Wars games are successful- but they appeal to Star Wars fans and are less of a risk and all the problems off what brings people to these games, an MMO needs to keep players in the long term and for that you can't just rely on a name but a playerbase. I'm into Jedi Academy and the KOTOR games, someone else would be into others but the gamers who are also Star Wars fans enough to play a Star Wars game aren't as many as the juggernauts of the gaming industry.

 

Yes, people come for the Star Wars name- but as seen during launch and afterwards, there weren't enough to keep them. The masses with the 'print money part' came, they played and left- its gamers who are Star Wars fans and MMO fans that were left behind. Star Wars: Galaxies failed- it did last eight years but it wasn't exactly teeming with subs.

Final Fantasy had many more gamers and subs who were likelier to stay around to draw from. I won't touch the state of the game but there is a difference between a cinematic series and a game. Star Wars gets that delicious sale surge every time a title released as far as games go and probably always will. But as for long term players, Final Fantasy or other gaming franchises have the experience and the staying power among the gamers funding that more sustainable issue. The Elder Scrolls also comes to mind.

 

Star Wars games are essentially merchandise- yes you can get lucky and there's a real game under the hood you can sink your teeth into. They have high sales volume as befitting the Star Wars name but this game needs regular revenue far past that surge and decline and the very big audience draw card works against long term players.

 

There would be few companies looking at this or Galaxies and thinking a Star Wars MMO is a good investment without needing consoles or a B2P style of access and a much more accessible game. This also disregards the fact EA might just renew their agreement with Disney and pay to renew the license/agreement. As long as Disney's happy with the money and standard coming in with the developed games, it would take EA getting outbid. That doesn't mean anything for SWTOR though. If Disney and EA collectively decide this game is a detraction from the IP, it's dead.

[jozkopucik]

Clearly all the people stating they care ...

 

Well now you have seen the stream and see how pointless it will be to gear so on one side if the CXP gain is so slow yes, boosts might be welcome

 

On the other hand if the crates dont guarantee setbonus stuff, i really dont see a point of going through all that effort.

[Alphasgimaone]

Battlefront (EA), Dark Forces, Dark Forces 2, Jedi Outcast, Jedi Academy all the Lego Star Wars, Tie Fighter and Xwing games etc. etc.

 

Anyone who doesn't think Star Wars isn't one of the most successful gaming IPs of all time doesn't know games.

All those games you listed wouldn't even add up to the sales of just any single Final Fantasy game.

 

FF is the 10th most successful video game franchise of all time. Star Wars barely merits a mention.

 

But just for comparison, the best ever selling Star Wars game is TFU at 1.9m. The original NES Final Fantasy sold 2.2.

 

Also, if you just take FFVII and X, you're looking at about 25m which is probably more than every single Star Wars game ever made.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Alphasgimaone

[jozkopucik]

Because Star Wars video games have been so successful, right? I mean there was KOTOR, and..... I guess maybe the old Super Nintendo scrollers?

 

Dont get me started man!!

 

I can say that i probably played 90% of all Star Wars games ever officially released and they are the best!! That is the main reason why I play this game, why many here play this game. If the game dies, it dies, it is heading towards that, but it wont be long before a new game comes, since you cannot have a world without a SW PC game, not in time of Episodes 7-9

[AllisonLightning]

All those games you listed wouldn't even add up to the sales of just any single Final Fantasy game.

 

FF is the 10th most successful video game franchise of all time. Star Wars barely merits a mention.

 

But just for comparison, the best ever selling Star Wars game is TFU at 1.9m. The original NES Final Fantasy sold 2.2.

 

Also, if you just take FFVII and X, you're looking at about 25m which is probably more than every single Star Wars game ever made.

 

The new Battlefront has sold around 13 million copies. But the point stands while Star Wars provides good return on investment, it's far down enough the list that includes an entire franchise's worth and most of its boost came from the game that came out right before Episode VII. (It provides incentive for Disney to let EA continue on with a new deal after the current one expires).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

[MeNaCe-NZ]

-snip-.

 

Sorry but what did ANY of that have to do with proving Star Wars as not being an utterly dominant force in gaming?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

All those games you listed wouldn't even add up to the sales of just any single Final Fantasy game.

 

Provide proof or it didn't happen.

 

Opinions are good n all until you push them as though they were facts.

 

Without even looking into sales data think on this ... platforms star wars games released on vs FF games ...

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The new Battlefront has sold around 13 million copies. But the point stands while Star Wars provides good return on investment, it's far down enough the list that includes an entire franchise's worth and most of its boost came from the game that came out right before Episode VII. (It provides incentive for Disney to let EA continue on with a new deal after the current one expires).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

 

It's wikipedia it must be true!

 

Oh wait here is another "wiki" site with differing data yet the same header ...

 

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Best_selling_game_franchises

 

Even when you actually start looking into both links data you start to see rather large gaps in their data set like "star wars battlefront series $10 million" lol.

Edited November 11, 2016 by MeNaCe-NZ

[AllisonLightning]

Sorry but what did ANY of that have to do with proving Star Wars as not being an utterly dominant force in gaming?

 

It had to do with the fact that its outperformed by other franchises and just because its Star Wars, doesn't make it one of the most successful. It's successful, by all means and the license is worth having but compared to other franchises- it has been outperformed despite a huge catalogue. Star Wars games, by default are made to appeal to Star Wars fans who may or may not be gamers- sometimes the games are technically brilliant but pretending its an 'utterly dominant' force in gaming is hyperbole.

 

I love Star Wars, it's the first science fiction movie series I ever watched but I've never been one to let nostalgia and fan goggles make me think differently. I don't intend to keep debating since you are determined to play the 'it's Star Wars' card. I don't argue with tunnel vision fans and Final Fantasy (which I've tried and couldn't stand) still stomps Star Wars to the curb in your second link.

 

But whatever- that's why there's been a replacement Star Wars MMO cultivated and they've announced it, and there will be a Star Wars Candy Mountain where the franchise soars into its birthright because Star Wars is gaming royalty and will print gaming profit. For real this time.

[CorellianWannabe]

Let's not forget Angry Birds Star Wars, which is only successful due to the Star Wars IP and not the Angry Birds gameplay- since Star Wars is a license to print money and any game is magically more successful due to its presence (even if it's the same freaking game with a Star Wars skin).

[MeNaCe-NZ]

It had to do with the fact that its outperformed by other franchises and just because its Star Wars, doesn't make it one of the most successful. It's successful, by all means and the license is worth having but compared to other franchises- it has been outperformed despite a huge catalogue. Star Wars games, by default are made to appeal to Star Wars fans who may or may not be gamers- sometimes the games are technically brilliant but pretending its an 'utterly dominant' force in gaming is hyperbole.

 

I love Star Wars, it's the first science fiction movie series I ever watched but I've never been one to let nostalgia and fan goggles make me think differently. I don't intend to keep debating since you are determined to play the 'it's Star Wars' card. I don't argue with tunnel vision fans and Final Fantasy (which I've tried and couldn't stand) still stomps Star Wars to the curb in your second link.

 

But whatever- that's why there's been a replacement Star Wars MMO cultivated and they've announced it, and there will be a Star Wars Candy Mountain where the franchise soars into its birthright because Star Wars is gaming royalty and will print gaming profit. For real this time.

 

Again, proof might be nice.

[ShieldProtection]

I saw some speculation that there are going to be Command XP boosts sold on the Cartel Market in 5.0 and the possibility to sell Command Crates on the Cartel Market like the current packs. If they do this, it will be a full on pay to win system. They specifically mentioned in one of the livestreams that they could sell power on the cartel market, but don't.

 

If they do in-fact cross this line, the day this game goes pay-to-win will be the last day I ever play this game.

 

Can someone from the dev team please unequivocally state that something like this will never be in the game in order to end this speculation?

 

You must be new here.

 

This is not a generic MMO, BioWare does not make pay to win games.

[kvandertulip]

You must be new here.

 

This is not a generic MMO, BioWare does not make pay to win games.

 

I've been playing since the beta.

 

Evidence is pointing toward the reality that they probably are going to start selling CXP boosters (maybe not at the start of 5.0, but some point after). Some may call it pay-to-win or pay-to-accelerate. That it just semantics. As it has been said in this thread already, unless you can acquire these through some way in-game, this gives a competitive advantage to those that pay additional money over their subscription. Call it whatever you would like; it is a form of pay-to-win.

Edited November 11, 2016 by kvandertulip

[jozkopucik]

I've been playing since the beta.

 

Evidence is pointing toward the reality that they probably are going to start selling CXP boosters (maybe not at the start of 5.0, but some point after). Some may call it pay-to-win or pay-to-accelerate. That it just semantics. As it has been said in this thread already, unless you can acquire these through some way in-game, this gives a competitive advantage to those that pay additional money over their subscription. Call it whatever you would like; it is a form of pay-to-win.

 

That Chris guy in stream, when they asked about guild boosts for cxp, said they dont have anything yet. He said that in general that they dont have anything overall, BUT are open to stuff.

 

So seems they may not be anything, but there could be.

[kvandertulip]

That Chris guy in stream, when they asked about guild boosts for cxp, said they dont have anything yet. He said that in general that they dont have anything overall, BUT are open to stuff.

 

So seems they may not be anything, but there could be.

 

Guild xp bonuses are something totally different. What I am talking about are the Cartel Market consumable CXP boosts.

Edited November 11, 2016 by kvandertulip

[jozkopucik]

Guild xp bonuses are something totally different. What I am talking about are the Cartel Market consumable CXP boosts.

 

Yes, i am saying that he said "they have nothing" meaning not even CM stuff for it!!

[Jerba]

Just talked with my raid group; they also think that CXP boosts are too close to P2W and that they would destroy their interest in the game. Therefore, to the devs, please do NOT put any CXP boosts in the Cartel Market, the little additional revenue you can get from those is not worth angering the few endgame players that are left in this game.

 

Two years ago, my raid group was in the middle, we were far from the best group because we lacked DPS. But now we are among the best raid groups on the server, just because so many other raid groups have left. And we're playing on one of the most populated servers (rank 3 according to torstatus), this is not a dead server.

A guildie once compared the game population to a pyramid. You have the casual players at the bottom, and they rely on guides, items listed in the GTN, and general help with technical and game support questions. The more BioWare angers the top of the pyramid, the worse it is for every player. So if we look at 5.0 - are we going to get a optimized BiS build when Bant has quit, or are we left in the dark? Will there be players left to write class guides with optimal rotations (which are still required for the hard content)? Sure, it's possible that other players will take their place but the quality will not be as good.

To BioWare's bottom line, this wasn't noticeable during 4.0 but this will become evident in 2017, unless they manage to blow us away with their new group content - but I doubt it. Please, for the love of Kai Zykken, do not put CXP boosts in the Cartel Market! Stop making decisions that anger veteran players, it hurts the game and the short-term stream of players from Rogue One or Episode 8 cannot compensate that.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Jerba

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Just talked with my raid group; they also think that CXP boosts are too close to P2W and that they would destroy their interest in the game. Therefore, to the devs, please do NOT put any CXP boosts in the Cartel Market, the little additional revenue you can get from those is not worth angering the few endgame players that are left in this game.

 

Two years ago, my raid group was in the middle, we were far from the best group because we lacked DPS. But now we are among the best raid groups on the server, just because so many other raid groups have left. And we're playing on one of the most populated servers (rank 3 according to torstatus), this is not a dead server.

A guildie once compared the game population to a pyramid. You have the casual players at the bottom, and they rely on guides, items listed in the GTN, and general help with technical and game support questions. The more BioWare angers the top of the pyramid, the worse it is for every player. So if we look at 5.0 - are we going to get a optimized BiS build when Bant has quit, or are we left in the dark? Will there be players left to write class guides with optimal rotations (which are still required for the hard content)? Sure, it's possible that other players will take their place but the quality will not be as good.

To BioWare's bottom line, this wasn't noticeable during 4.0 but this will become evident in 2017, unless they manage to blow us away with their new group content - but I doubt it. Please, for the love of Kai Zykken, do not put CXP boosts in the Cartel Market! Stop making decisions that anger veteran players, it hurts the game and the short-term stream of players from Rogue One or Episode 8 cannot compensate that.

 

At least in regards to guides it won't overly matter because there is no new content to write them for except uprisings and no doubt Dulfy will handle those as usual.

 

Min/maxing for the content ... has anyone ever bothered to check and see if it actually matters in the PVE content as to how much easier it is to complete a raid etc.?

[xkcurtisx]

Min/maxing for the content ... has anyone ever bothered to check and see if it actually matters in the PVE content as to how much easier it is to complete a raid etc.?

 

Only ever mattered for nighttmare raiding and pvp.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Xcurtx

[Tsillah]

Only ever mattered for nighttmare raiding and pvp.

 

Well depending on the ops it also matters in HM raiding.