Add in combat system from Jedi Knight series.

[TheRomanRuler]

Yes i get that this is massive change. But Knights of the Fallen Empire showed that Bioware is willing to change things a lot to improve the game. Now we have great focus on story, we just need improved combat. Instead of pressing 1, 2, 3, 4... i would prefer to actually control my lightsaber like in Jedi Knight series. More and more MMOs are adopting combat system that is more and more advanced - why not go ahead and start the work on adding Jedi Knight styled combat system?

Way i see this:

-old Republic has great story, but old (which is not automatically bad) combat system where you are just pressing buttons and hotkeys instead of actually moving your lightsaber or aiming your weapon. Instead of pressing number X to throw my lightsaber to do X damage to target that i selected, why can`t i do what i did in Jedi Knight and hold down right mouse button, aim the lightsaber as it moves trough air so that it hits as many enemies as possible.

For classes that use guns, you just need to look at every shooter game there is.

-Jedi Knight no longer has story (i mean it no longer has anything new added to it as newest game is well over 15 years old), but it has awesome combat system.

Both of these games have something to attract players. Why can`t we have both? It takes very long time to add, but would be huge attraction to new and old players alike. There are always hard core fans who think current system is better, but looking at huge popularity of fighting games and shooters that don´t even have a story, you can bet well made advanced combat system would be huge attraction even if players don´t care about story or MMO aspect. And of course most would still play this for it`s story aspect.

[AFacelessOne]

Yes i get that this is massive change. But Knights of the Fallen Empire showed that Bioware is willing to change things a lot to improve the game. Now we have great focus on story, we just need improved combat. Instead of pressing 1, 2, 3, 4... i would prefer to actually control my lightsaber like in Jedi Knight series. More and more MMOs are adopting combat system that is more and more advanced - why not go ahead and start the work on adding Jedi Knight styled combat system?

Way i see this:

-old Republic has great story, but old (which is not automatically bad) combat system where you are just pressing buttons and hotkeys instead of actually moving your lightsaber or aiming your weapon. Instead of pressing number X to throw my lightsaber to do X damage to target that i selected, why can`t i do what i did in Jedi Knight and hold down right mouse button, aim the lightsaber as it moves trough air so that it hits as many enemies as possible.

For classes that use guns, you just need to look at every shooter game there is.

-Jedi Knight no longer has story (i mean it no longer has anything new added to it as newest game is well over 15 years old), but it has awesome combat system.

Both of these games have something to attract players. Why can`t we have both? It takes very long time to add, but would be huge attraction to new and old players alike. There are always hard core fans who think current system is better, but looking at huge popularity of fighting games and shooters that don´t even have a story, you can bet well made advanced combat system would be huge attraction even if players don´t care about story or MMO aspect. And of course most would still play this for it`s story aspect.

 

Nice troll, 7/10

[ZanyaCross]

You do realize this game has classes other than derps with lazor swords, right?

[SteveTheCynic]

Also: No thanks. SWTOR is not an MMO-ARPG, and I don't want it to become one. GW2 isn't truly an ARPG either, but it is already too close to one for my taste, which is one reason that I can't get into picking it up more seriously than I do, and it isn't even close to your suggestion.

[TheRomanRuler]

You do realize this game has classes other than derps with lazor swords, right?

 

Yes. And you must realise there are huge amount of shooter games with all kind of gadgets - making combat system for non-lightsaber wielding classes should be easier than to lightsaber wielders.

Sorry for not being more clear.

[TheRomanRuler]

Also: No thanks. SWTOR is not an MMO-ARPG, and I don't want it to become one. GW2 isn't truly an ARPG either, but it is already too close to one for my taste, which is one reason that I can't get into picking it up more seriously than I do, and it isn't even close to your suggestion.

I am sure you don`t want to if you are sub to TOR and have always liked it`s combat system. But what about those who don`t like it? Players as a whole across all games. Among majority of those, combat system of TOR is obsolete and more hands on control of games like Jedi Knight or trillions of shooters are more popular - that is why there are trillions of shooters and only few games with combat like in TOR.

Remember that only subs can post here - think how many non-subs would be interested and how many of them would sub. Potentially far more would sub than current subs of TOR. There is reason why MMORPGs are adopting more action oriented combat.

I am pretty sure Bioware made combat in KFE so easy becouse most players don`t like combat system TOR has, and only hardcore portion of players, aka those that already play TOR and other MMORPGs, like it.

 

I understand that it is not better or worse combat system, it just is different, and it is valid opinion if people love TOR styled combat. To each his own. TOR`s combat system does have certain kind of appeal. But it does feel artificial, and more like you are just dictating orders to your soldier and not actually being your soldier.

And people who loved Jedi Knight loved it for it`s combat. People who love TOR don`t love TOR for it`s combat, they love the story and RPG. Which can still exist just as well in Jedi Knight`s combat system.

Edited September 26, 2016 by TheRomanRuler

[psandak]

I am sure you don`t want to if you are sub to TOR and have always liked it`s combat system. But what about those who don`t like it? Players as a whole across all games. Among majority of those, combat system of TOR is obsolete and more hands on control of games like Jedi Knight or trillions of shooters are more popular - that is why there are trillions of shooters and only few games with combat like in TOR.

Remember that only subs can post here - think how many non-subs would be interested and how many of them would sub. Potentially far more would sub than current subs of TOR. There is reason why MMORPGs are adopting more action oriented combat.

I am pretty sure Bioware made combat in KFE so easy becouse most players don`t like combat system TOR has, and only hardcore portion of players, aka those that already play TOR and other MMORPGs, like it.

 

I understand that it is not better or worse combat system, it just is different, and it is valid opinion if people love TOR styled combat. To each his own. TOR`s combat system does have certain kind of appeal. But it does feel artificial, and more like you are just dictating orders to your soldier and not actually being your soldier.

 

While shooters are popular, they are not universally popular. I guarantee that this game would LOSE a lot of players if the combat system went to what you are suggesting. This game is twitchy enough as it is. That combat system is even more twitchy.

 

In addition, while the JK games did have a third person view, it was designed as a FPS. Furthermore, that series did not have a variable third person view like this one does. There are aspects and events within this game that are made simpler when the player can zoom out. Zooming out would make the JK series combat system more difficult to control.

 

In short, the systems clash way too much.

[dalethaan]

what you suggest is an entirely new video game

[Nempo]

Oh you want more actiony combat? Terra and Wildstar are that way....those ghost towns are that way for a reason.

MMO's attract a type of player, they aren't into super twitchy combat typically. See GSF as a clue as to how popular twitch mechanics are for standard MMOers.

 

Also, those combat mechanics were HORRIBLE, they gave you the illusion of being actioney when in reality each enemy had a sequence you simply had to follow to always score hits and to never take damage yourself if you followed it. It was more like playing "simon says".

[TheRomanRuler]

While shooters are popular, they are not universally popular. I guarantee that this game would LOSE a lot of players if the combat system went to what you are suggesting. This game is twitchy enough as it is. That combat system is even more twitchy.

 

In addition, while the JK games did have a third person view, it was designed as a FPS. Furthermore, that series did not have a variable third person view like this one does. There are aspects and events within this game that are made simpler when the player can zoom out. Zooming out would make the JK series combat system more difficult to control.

 

In short, the systems clash way too much.

 

Despite the title, it does not need to be SAME system. It would of course be modern one. Not 15 years old system. It would of course have modern, good, controls, not dated 15 old controls from time before shooters became truly popular.

[TheRomanRuler]

Oh you want more actiony combat? Terra and Wildstar are that way....those ghost towns are that way for a reason.

MMO's attract a type of player, they aren't into super twitchy combat typically. See GSF as a clue as to how popular twitch mechanics are for standard MMOers.

 

Also, those combat mechanics were HORRIBLE, they gave you the illusion of being actioney when in reality each enemy had a sequence you simply had to follow to always score hits and to never take damage yourself if you followed it. It was more like playing "simon says".

 

Stupid post. I don`t want combat like in Terra or Wildstar. I want combat more like in jedi knight, only obviously modern version.

I have not played Terra or Wildstar, but combat in Terra looks like very different from Jedi Knight. It has nothing to do with my suggestion.

[SteveTheCynic]

People who love TOR don`t love TOR for it`s combat, they love the story and RPG.

Correct. I don't want to hate TOR for its combat, though, so I would strongly suggest leaving it alone.

 

(Seriously. I play TOR because of all those things you say there, and NOT because of the combat system. If it went to an FPS-like combat system, that would be a reason to *stop* playing SWTOR and play something else instead.)

 

Also: a game's combat system is what it is. You include it in your reasons to choose a game or to reject a game. I wanted *so* much to like GW2 the way I previously liked GW1 and Runes of Magic (good game let down by a crashy client and dubious customer service), but the need to be on your toes at all times when fighting, coupled with occasional vertiginous cliffs in the difficulty curve, made it too hard for me to play through, which spoiled my enjoyment. The same would apply to SWTOR if they were to change the combat system as you suggest.

 

And the FPS-playing crowd would not come to an MMORPG just because it had an FPS-ish combat system. It would have to have FPS-ish PvP as well, because that's what the FPS-playing crowd plays.

 

Any time you try to fuse two game styles into one, you get problems. As examples, consider the Spellforce games - offline RPGs that switched fairly seamlessly between distant-view 3rd-person RPG and Age of Empires. Although the transitions were fairly seamless, it was still a bit weird. Another example is closer to home: the SWTOR railshooter space missions and GSF, neither of which sit well with a "conventional" MMORPG.

 

Shrug. Whatever. I stand by my opinion that they should leave it alone.

[Thoronmir]

Correct. I don't want to hate TOR for its combat, though, so I would strongly suggest leaving it alone.

 

(Seriously. I play TOR because of all those things you say there, and NOT because of the combat system. If it went to an FPS-like combat system, that would be a reason to *stop* playing SWTOR and play something else instead.)

I concur with your concurrence. This issue arises every so often on these forums: should EA/BW revise SWTOR combat mechanics to make it more "twitchy"? My response is always the same: "No, thank you."

 

I may not be as cynical as Steve, but converting SWTOR into any manner of FPS is on the (very) short list of changes that would result in the immediate cancellation of my subscription and the expeditious uninstallation of SWTOR from my computer ("expeditious" meaning "as soon as I can get Zach to come over and uninstall the game for me"). Always on the prowl for a new game to try, I became enamored with "No Man's Sky" based on all I had heard and read about it. I like everything that game has to offer. Then, I learned it is FPS. So ... no thanks.

 

That said, I would not oppose a FPS-view option in SWTOR.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Thoronmir

[eriksarcasm]

 

*snip*

Always on the prowl for a new game to try, I became enamored with "No Man's Sky" based on all I had heard and read about it. I like everything that game has to offer. Then, I learned it is FPS. So ... no thanks.

 

You dodged a bullet there, old chum.

 

That said, I would not oppose a FPS-view option in SWTOR.

 

You have that though, you zoom in the camera all the way. Or stand really close to a wall so you can literally see through your toon's head.

 

I've found the lack of a full dodging mechanic to be immersion breaking at times. I laugh when fighting ranged enemies and their blaster bolts curve to follow me as I move. Doesn't do much damage to be fair, but it's weird to watch.

[Angry_Android]

No. Nyet. Nein.

[TheRomanRuler]

Correct. I don't want to hate TOR for its combat, though, so I would strongly suggest leaving it alone.

 

(Seriously. I play TOR because of all those things you say there, and NOT because of the combat system. If it went to an FPS-like combat system, that would be a reason to *stop* playing SWTOR and play something else instead.)

 

Also: a game's combat system is what it is. You include it in your reasons to choose a game or to reject a game. I wanted *so* much to like GW2 the way I previously liked GW1 and Runes of Magic (good game let down by a crashy client and dubious customer service), but the need to be on your toes at all times when fighting, coupled with occasional vertiginous cliffs in the difficulty curve, made it too hard for me to play through, which spoiled my enjoyment. The same would apply to SWTOR if they were to change the combat system as you suggest.

 

And the FPS-playing crowd would not come to an MMORPG just because it had an FPS-ish combat system. It would have to have FPS-ish PvP as well, because that's what the FPS-playing crowd plays.

 

Any time you try to fuse two game styles into one, you get problems. As examples, consider the Spellforce games - offline RPGs that switched fairly seamlessly between distant-view 3rd-person RPG and Age of Empires. Although the transitions were fairly seamless, it was still a bit weird. Another example is closer to home: the SWTOR railshooter space missions and GSF, neither of which sit well with a "conventional" MMORPG.

 

Shrug. Whatever. I stand by my opinion that they should leave it alone.

There are plenty of people who want FPS games with story and not just combat. And it has been done lot of times successfully. Republic Commando, Crysis 3... This does not have to be Battlefield and have PVP for people to like FPS combat. Jedi Knigth was played for single player, not for PVP. Mass Effect also has combat that could be applied to this game - and it is NOT played for multiplayer.

 

Give me actual reason to not implent combat where new people with more skill can actually defeat level 65 player without skills like you can in Planetside 2 or huge bunch of games.

"I like it" or "i would stop playing" are not reasons.

 

And to be clear, this game does not have to be FPS. It could be 3rd person like in Mass Effect for example. Or, like in title, Jedi Knight.

 

Here is good article about MMO combat that i also added to my sig

https://www.engadget.com/2011/09/13/the-soapbox-why-mmo-combat-sucks-and-how-bioware-couldve-made/

 

YOU can like this combat for all i care. But what about 90% of people in general? I personally don`t understand why you want to shoot someone a head 500 times to kill them. Or cut trough them with lightsaber for 5 minutes to kill them. In Mass Effect combat was excellent.

Jedi are only difficult to balance with non-jedi if you make Jedi demi-gods. Oh wait, in most games player is demi-god even though he is not a jedi. In Mass Effect for example you can kill anything Jedi can. Commander Shepard from Mass Effect may not be able to force choke anyone, but he could just shoot them from distance before Jedi has time to force choke anyone.

 

And can anyone actually find article or video from relatively well known and popular professional/company who works in gaming indurstry who likes the combat of TOR? I can find a lot against it. People are even saying they like that KOTFE made combat easy becouse combat is bad, so faster it is over the better.

Edited October 14, 2016 by TheRomanRuler

[TheRomanRuler]

No. Nyet. Nein.

 

Yes i like that argument. I am going to say... Yes.

[BenduKundalini]

I would LOVE to see a revamped, 2016 version of the Jedi Knight series. Possibly an mmo about it. The Battlefront pvp battles are among the best fun I've ever had.

 

But, not for SWTOR.

[TheRomanRuler]

I would LOVE to see a revamped, 2016 version of the Jedi Knight series. Possibly an mmo about it. The Battlefront pvp battles are among the best fun I've ever had.

 

But, not for SWTOR.

 

Way i see it, SWTOR has to get combat system that is more attracting to larger majority of players if it wants to stay alive after 10 years. At the moment system itself is fine - but all the time new MMOs come out that have enhanced combat. Elder Scrolls Online has promising combat system, will have to see how well it does in 5 years.

 

EDIT: But to be clear, i understand completely that people don`t want to always be second away from death. I certainly understand that completely, i don`t want that either. But something like Mass Effect 3 on easy difficulty would be great.

Edited October 15, 2016 by TheRomanRuler