PVE Darkness: Why not open with Crushing Darkness?

[BanPearson]

Since Crushing Darkness has a cast time and after it another attack can immediately be used, it seems like a better way to start a fight.

 

The "traditional" opener can still be used right at the end of it, so it does not "replace" whatever current opener you deem best (for example Force Pull). It is cast before it, and the "traditional" opener isn't delayed even by a fraction of a second. From the perspective of combat start.

 

Again to clarify: It does not replace Force Pull or Shock or Wither. It does not delay Force Pull or Shock or Wither. Those are cast at the same moment as they have always been.

 

We use a SIMILAR logic all the time in PvP, where we would always continue a fight with Crushing Darkness after using Whirlwind or Mind Trap (in Darkness); main difference is that we care about DPS there and not TPS.

Edited August 20, 2016 by BanPearson

[CarlGustaf]

Speaking for pure TPS yes its the best posible opener you can get, as Aelanis stated in his dulfy guide during 3.0, a little bit force intense but who cares.

 

The big problem with thise openig ist the range you have to not pull the boss. At early 3.0 we had 30 meters range what we lost at some point.

 

on every boss you can get at 9.99 meter crushing darknes is the best option (except Revan if you need to get the first throw). most bosses on ravager and temple you can do it but older ones i'm not sure which are possible and practical.

Edited August 20, 2016 by CarlGustaf

[BanPearson]

Thanks, great explanation with a brief history!

 

I didn't even know that it used to be a thing (I was gone through all of 2.0 - 3.0) and wondered why not.

[CarlGustaf]

I use it at some point espacially on ravagers and temple. Other bosses like calphayus ot Titan 6 are a lot more agressiv so you do not get your CD through before you pull the boss. This is the biggest problem with this strategy.

[UberSamoyed]

Crushing Darkness has a max range of 10m. Force pull has a min range of 10 meters. You need to cast for 2 seconds while being pulled out of stealth, then step back a bit and Force Pull. Then maybe you Phantom Stride (or run) to the target.

 

So....you are delaying everything by at least two seconds. Is this a big deal? Not really. But, if we're going for a pure optimal ramp up (gaining as much threat while concurrently building stacks of Dark Protection), then Crushing Darkness does delay this.

 

Crushing Darkness does give you a nice damage boost. And, you can make it work either way. Yet, with the aforementioned changes to the mechanics, it is no longer perceived as "optimal."

 

I believe Aelanis called the Crushing Darkness opener his "cheeky" opening rotation back in 3.0. In his comments as to why he removed the Crushing Darkness opener, he said:

 

You won't necessarily aggro the boss at 10 meters, but I do advise against using Crushing Darkness now. You cannot use both it and Force Pull simultaneously any more, and Force Pull is FAR more threat than any of your other moves. The suggestion for Crushing Darkness was removed late last week.

 

 

In short, you want to get off Force Pull off while building Dark Protection's ASAP. In it's current state, Crushing Darkness delays both ever so slightly. Whatever works for you...works for you. But, this is the reason why it was removed. It's also been mentioned that certain bosses do not allow a ton of time to ramp up so you're really trying to throw as much threat and mitigation at it as fast as you can.

 

Do what works for you and your group, but I've discarded it from my opener because it just doesn't seem worth the trouble. Your mileage may vary.

Edited August 20, 2016 by UberSamoyed

[LordTurin]

Ya I admittedly am new at shadow tanking, but even doing crushing darkness from directly being the boss at 9.99m would still oftentimes aggro the boss, to the point it doesn't seem worth it. Not to mention, even on fights with screwy aggro tables (like Revan HM at the start) I really never have issues keeping aggro unless I screw something up.

[Shrodinher]

You won't believe how many sintanks don't even have it on their quickbars

Threat is binary, you either keep it or you do not, everything above required is a waste. CD is a nice dps boost in opener, but eats up just so much force it may be not worth it if boss doesn't do enough hits to compensate for it. I dropped using it in opener almost completely, only abuse it for pre-cast on transitions and whatnot.