Arrogance and the Current Event

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Objectivity does not mean to look at everything and see good and bad. It doesn't mean that at all. It means to consider it from all sides.

 

In terms of an argument means to more or less stick to the facts as opposed to justify your view based on your own opinion, emotions, experiences even to a degree ( depending on how you are phrasing the argument ).

 

This is probably why you think you are coming from an objective point of view when really you come from a subjective point of view, you have your definition somewhat mixed up.

[AlienEyeTX]

Oooh, oooh, ooh, please pull the car over, we're right next to the 'Giant Kor'slug Museum', I've always wanted to see it! Then can we go to the Nerfherder Motel and Ranch on Alderaan?

 

You can waste time with your friends later! Harvest is when I need you the most.

 

Although, I have heard some... interesting things about The Nerfherder Ranch just outside of Nar Shaddaa. Maybe a little detour IS in order.

[squirrelballz]

You're very good with personal attacks...care to toss a few more out?

 

I agree this bickering is getting ridiculous lets discuss the topic instead of discussing each other. OP I'm still inclined to say that this event is only good for New Players especially with the new pack being released. People can enjoy the event now without doing it if they are after the packs. Even though this new influx of players has been great I don't think EA will give them any additional revenue to add more MMO content in this game. So in my opinion the event would be a waste if they didn't do anything meaningful with the revenue it brings in.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

What is even the point of this post? If you don't have anything constructive to contribute, please leave. It's ok to not reply to things.

 

"Don't make me pull this car over!"

 

I endeavour to reply to everyone who replies to me ... notes TUXs continually replying but not addressing the meat and bones of the original posts put against him. He prefers to play childish games like "You are way more negative than me" or some such. When he gives me something to constructively respond to then by all means I shall.

Either way though - you are no judge, jury or executioner.

 

It's not really any different to some of the posts I put against you when you went all "anti event" for awhile that you also stopped with responses to. I was expecting some nice in depth debate but instead no real response at all.

 

I assume because from such posts put against you from numerous posters they gave you pause to actually think about what you had said, what was said about you and that in turn lead to your OP in this topic.

 

It's a nice change compared to some other posters who fail to reply to the points put against them ( those posts against them usually start out constructively if they warrant it ) and instead keep spouting on the same nonsense in numerous threads as though no one has put up a valid argument against them.

[Tsetso]

Maybe I should just apply the TUXs logic to this response.

 

"You are WAY more gooder with personal attacks than I am!"

 

 

If there is one person on this forums who never uses personal attacks as argument it's TUXs

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I agree this bickering is getting ridiculous lets discuss the topic instead of discussing each other. OP I'm still inclined to say that this event is only good for New Players especially with the new pack being released. People can enjoy the event now without doing it if they are after the packs. Even though this new influx of players has been great I don't think EA will give them any additional revenue to add more MMO content in this game. So in my opinion the event would be a waste if they didn't do anything meaningful with the revenue it brings in.

 

Only for new players? I'm not a new player and it's good for me.

 

Wouldn't it be more fair to say it's good for many players who haven't done all the class story content before and thus encouraging them to run at least one new class through the game? You can expand on that to other aspects of the game ( flashpoints, operations etc. ) depending on how far they are willing to go.

 

It's almost disappointing that they lumped so much into the legendary tier instead of making another tier or two with some of the legendary stuff in it. For example world bosses .. .why couldn't we have a couple of those in other tiers? Same for operation bosses.

I feel in a way they let an opportunity to encourage other casual players with no interest in EVERYTHING in the legendary tier and thus won't do legendary tier to try content they might not have tied otherwise.

 

They could have had it optional too like "Defeat 3 world bosses or complete 1 operation" in some of the tiers.

 

Just seems weird that almost all tiers are level content, bit of PVP and flashpoints then BOOM last tier has everything else which means only a small percentage are likely to really go for it and thus less people encouraged into that other content.

 

Bit of an opposing view I guess in that I'm almost suggesting they encourage people to do even more for the other tiers as opposed to less.

 

It's all moot though unless they fix the BoP issue anyway as that carrot is awfully small right now for many, personally I'm doing it just because it inspired me to do another class whilst there are lots of people on the planets, not that I care for the rewards that much.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

If there is one person on this forums who never uses personal attacks as argument it's TUXs

 

ORLY?

 

I'm far less negative than you are.

 

Pretty sure he just tried to attack me personally to justify why he isn't supposedly "negative". .

 

Oh n/m, you were being sarcastic - I get it now.

[squirrelballz]

It's a nice change compared to some other posters who fail to reply to the points put against them ( those posts against them usually start out constructively if they warrant it ) and instead keep spouting on the same nonsense in numerous threads as though no one has put up a valid argument against them.

 

Out of curiosity what is some of the nonsense the critics of this event have been spouting? I ask this as a genuine question because although I've been a huge critic of this event I only think it's a waste of time for vets especially if they are after packs. I think the event is great for new players and it's one of the reasons I got 3 of my friends to try the game out and sub. I've seen plenty of nonsense from those who have supported this event as well. Whether or not you like this event I'm sure alot of people can agree it's implementation was abysmal in many ways. This is the first event where characters people have poured hours into couldn't participate in this event. How can anyone defend that as good design is beyond me?

[DarthDymond]

Back on topic: How do y'all feel about those new CM packs vs. the Event packs?

 

M'eh, as long as the Victorious Pioneer / Trailblazer / Titan armors, the various titles, and the Titan Turret mount all remain event-exclusive, I don't mind the Packs having a CM analogue - with the exception of the two new Tunings (which I'm happy will be on the GTN now), everything that was in those Packs was already stuff from the CM anyway, having them available through that source again is fine by me.

[MadDutchman]

You can waste time with your friends later! Harvest is when I need you the most.

 

Although, I have heard some... interesting things about The Nerfherder Ranch just outside of Nar Shaddaa. Maybe a little detour IS in order.

 

I'm afraid Baras used the bathroom in that one, may not be wise to venture in there anytime soon.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Out of curiosity what is some of the nonsense the critics of this event have been spouting? I ask this as a genuine question because although I've been a huge critic of this event I only think it's a waste of time for vets especially if they are after packs. I think the event is great for new players and it's one of the reasons I got 3 of my friends to try the game out and sub. I've seen plenty of nonsense from those who have supported this event as well. Whether or not you like this event I'm sure alot of people can agree it's implementation was abysmal in many ways. This is the first event where characters people have poured hours into couldn't participate in this event. How can anyone defend that as good design is beyond me?

 

Nonsense such as "I can't do this on my main thus I am locked out of this event!", "We are we being forced to do this event!" and "This event should be completely retroactive for what I've done before" are a few off the top of my head.

 

Was the implementation abysmal? I thought so but now I see with the release of these packs it was done on purpose.

 

I was going to add "This event is just a cash grab" to the above list because people used unlocks to justify it as a cash grab which is ideally false - however it is indeed a clear cash grab now they dropped these packs.

 

Which of course they are entitled to do, I just dislike the lies ( in my view ) they are perpetrating.

 

Anyway previous events locked out newer characters etc. and thus they actually could lock out accounts entirely if they didn't have an account at level ( we have start @ 60 tokens now so should we call all those events cash grabs? ) - this event I believe may have been done this way to extend the life of existing subscribers in light of no new content to achieve the same and also to ensure all accounts are eligible.

 

Leaving out existing accounts has it's design merits that have been previously debated e.g. increasing the pool of available players to do the OPs / HM FPs etc. since existing toons would limit this pool as they would neglect the new toons coming through.

 

The flaw of course was BoP gear so you couldn't send that to your main but that was done clearly as a cash grab now, try make it as hard as possible for people to complete sets of armour so they would buy packs to complete the set for unlocks.

[ikinai]

I'm afraid Baras used the bathroom in that one, may not be wise to venture in there anytime soon.

 

Your overconfidence in Baras' bowels are your weakness!

[squirrelballz]

Only for new players? I'm not a new player and it's good for me.

 

I should've worded that better because you're right that people are running this event for various reasons.

 

Wouldn't it be more fair to say it's good for many players who haven't done all the class story content before and thus encouraging them to run at least one new class through the game? You can expand on that to other aspects of the game ( flashpoints, operations etc. ) depending on how far they are willing to go.

 

Yeah I agree with you there but there players like myself who've done all those things so no incentive for me to do those things again.

 

It's almost disappointing that they lumped so much into the legendary tier instead of making another tier or two with some of the legendary stuff in it. For example world bosses .. .why couldn't we have a couple of those in other tiers? Same for operation bosses.

I feel in a way they let an opportunity to encourage other casual players with no interest in EVERYTHING in the legendary tier and thus won't do legendary tier to try content they might not have tied otherwise.

 

BW I think imo has always been terrible at encouraging players from trying out endgame content. They could've done alot better in designing this event.

 

They could have had it optional too like "Defeat 3 world bosses or complete 1 operation" in some of the tiers.

 

Just seems weird that almost all tiers are level content, bit of PVP and flashpoints then BOOM last tier has everything else which means only a small percentage are likely to really go for it and thus less people encouraged into that other content.

 

Exactly I think the last tier was poorly designed and should've been made into 3 separate tiers.

 

Bit of an opposing view I guess in that I'm almost suggesting they encourage people to do even more for the other tiers as opposed to less.

 

It's all moot though unless they fix the BoP issue anyway as that carrot is awfully small right now for many, personally I'm doing it just because it inspired me to do another class whilst there are lots of people on the planets, not that I care for the rewards that much.

 

At the end of the day I just don't think this carrot is worth it especially now that you can buy the packs/event from the CM and save time rather then dumping hours into this event if you are after the packs.

Edited July 12, 2016 by squirrelballz

[Tsetso]

ORLY?

 

 

 

Pretty sure he just tried to attack me personally to justify why he isn't supposedly "negative". .

 

Oh n/m, you were being sarcastic - I get it now.

 

No, I was not sarcastic. I've read the entire thread and I seriously think that his backlash at you was a lot milder than you'd get from most of the forum posters.

[gabigool]

EDIT - never mind. think it went waaaay too far already. Edited July 12, 2016 by gabigool

[squirrelballz]

Nonsense such as "I can't do this on my main thus I am locked out of this event!", "We are we being forced to do this event!" and "This event should be completely retroactive for what I've done before" are a few off the top of my head.

 

1. Invalid Criticism: If anyone said they are locked out of the event then yeah it's absurd

 

Valid Criticism: There should be a way for all characters to engage in this event. This criticism calls into question the intelligence of the design in the Event. Questioning the Devs game design is completely valid critique. When is it ever good to exclude characters in an MMO that's bad business and design imho.

 

2. Invalid criticism: No one is being forced to do this event and I agree with you there.

 

Valid Criticism: It's sad that this event is what's being pushed as content to hold us over until new content comes out. Rehashing content isn't good for long term players.

 

3. I'm a bit biased there because I do think some of those achievements should be retroactive so I'll agree to disagree. It doesn't hurt anyone imo if BW granted them to players who've done the content. There should just be more new requirements and tiers for the event instead of having people do content they've done already. Again I just think it's bad developer design. Just my 2 cartel coins.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Yeah I agree with you there but there players like myself who've done all those things so no incentive for me to do those things again.

 

Yes I know but then this is weighing up the minority vs the majority perhaps? I have no real issue with you doing things on existing toons at all, certainly have an issue with retroactive achievements though.

 

If they just gave it all to players who had already done it then it's not really encouraging them to anything at all. Many over the next couple of months would probably get bored and leave.

 

Think then of those players specifically if they kept 20% redoing things and paying that might have otherwise left if given everything retroactively then it's a win yes? It's a gamble on their behalf either way and all one can really do to make a point to them is to follow your lead and cancel sub which is admirable because you aren't cutting your nose off to spite your face - you are genuinely annoyed and genuinely done most of everything there is to do.

 

 

BW I think imo has always been terrible at encouraging players from trying out endgame content. They could've done alot better in designing this event.

 

Indeed because I still love pugging SM, hoping this event brings in more pugs but it could have been done better.

 

At the end of the day I just don't think this carrot is worth it especially now that you can buy the packs/event from the CM and save time rather then dumping hours into this event if you are after the packs.

 

It's totally not, well not for you and not for me and not for many others. To others it will be though no doubt.

I just like the side effect of levelling a new class I've not done fully on planets that actually have people on them - conversations in chat on all planets is great.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

No, I was not sarcastic. I've read the entire thread and I seriously think that his backlash at you was a lot milder than you'd get from most of the forum posters.

 

But you said he never uses personal attacks? Did never suddenly start meaning "not often" ...

[Tsetso]

But you said he never uses personal attacks? Did never suddenly start meaning "not often" ...

 

I said "If anyone ...". That doesn't mean that if he got attacked he wouldn't respond - he's not Jesus to turn the other cheek.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Valid Criticism: There should be a way for all characters to engage in this event. This criticism calls into question the intelligence of the design in the Event. Questioning the Devs game design is completely valid critique. When is it ever good to exclude characters in an MMO that's bad business and design imho.

 

Yes there should be and yes rewards should be able to be sent to any toon you like. I've no argument with that but then the argument you've made there isn't that you are locked out of the event, simply the poor design aspect again.

 

Which is a double edged sword due to the making it more noob friendly bit I mentioned earlier.

 

Valid Criticism: It's sad that this event is what's being pushed as content to hold us over until new content comes out. Rehashing content isn't good for long term players.

 

Nope but I feel it's all they could manage with what they have left resource wise. Better than nothing right? Still poorly thought out though in regards to rewards and tiers.

 

I have this feeling about this game now and it's been getting worse all year ... that we are slowly but surely drifting towards the dread maintenance mode. Might be a year or 2 off but for me personally it does feel like where we are heading.

 

3. I'm a bit biased there because I do think some of those achievements should be retroactive so I'll agree to disagree. It doesn't hurt anyone imo if BW granted them to players who've done the content. There should just be more new requirements and tiers for the event instead of having people do content they've done already. Again I just think it's bad developer design. Just my 2 cartel coins.

 

All I'll say is if you got them retroactive and you got legendary just like that ... what carrot is there for you to do anything at all for the next few months if you've done it all? Even less than now so such players may well unsub either way - best try at least lure a few of them grudgingly to hang around and keep paying.

[Andryah]

If there is one person on this forums who never uses personal attacks as argument it's TUXs

 

LOL

 

This is a totally new Kool Aid, IMO.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Andryah

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I said "If anyone ...". That doesn't mean that if he got attacked he wouldn't respond - he's not Jesus to turn the other cheek.

 

If there is one person on this forums who never uses personal attacks as argument it's TUXs

 

Odd ... I don't see the word "anyone" in that quote anywhere at all.

 

Are you sure you're quoting the correct post of yourself?

[Andryah]

1. Invalid Criticism: If anyone said they are locked out of the event then yeah it's absurd

 

Valid Criticism: There should be a way for all characters to engage in this event. This criticism calls into question the intelligence of the design in the Event. Questioning the Devs game design is completely valid critique. When is it ever good to exclude characters in an MMO that's bad business and design imho.

 

2. Invalid criticism: No one is being forced to do this event and I agree with you there.

 

Valid Criticism: It's sad that this event is what's being pushed as content to hold us over until new content comes out. Rehashing content isn't good for long term players.

 

No disagreement here. Though I simply don't look down on the studio over this event.. because I can take it, or leave it, or play bits here and there.

 

3. I'm a bit biased there because I do think some of those achievements should be retroactive so I'll agree to disagree. It doesn't hurt anyone imo if BW granted them to players who've done the content. There should just be more new requirements and tiers for the event instead of having people do content they've done already. Again I just think it's bad developer design. Just my 2 cartel coins.

 

Since we don't know what is coming from the outcome of the event yet, this one is hard to weigh in on. They have teased that there is more coming from the results of the event... but are keeping their cards close (as usual).

 

Call me ambivalent on this point.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Andryah

[squirrelballz]

Yes I know but then this is weighing up the minority vs the majority perhaps? I have no real issue with you doing things on existing toons at all, certainly have an issue with retroactive achievements though.

 

See I totally agree with you there that's a valid compromise I honestly wouldn't care as long as all my toons could participate in this event one way or another. I can understand people having and issue with retroactive grants so my solution to that would be add new requirements to each tier. Therefore even if some things are retroactively granted vets would still have to work towards the new requirements.

 

It's totally not, well not for you and not for me and not for many others. To others it will be though no doubt.

I just like the side effect of levelling a new class I've not done fully on planets that actually have people on them - conversations in chat on all planets is great.

 

Total fair point and despite my criticism of this event I do think it's done wonders for this game population now the question is will BW retain those players?

[Vashadan]

People who are so offended by this event will stop subbing. There will be enough people who enjoy it, don't care, forget to unsub, etc. that the disappearance of some vets won't matter.

 

Game as usual. More than enough people will just suck it up.

 

If only more would take to heart the last few words of the first post made on this thread.

 

Nah, let us play keyboard warriors and continue the drivel some more...