Ranked Objective Warzones

[Jadescythe]

I do not intend to offend you with this, but it likely will... I find this view actually offensive and a little juvenile.

 

This is the typical mentality i see of most gamers today. Whatever the most OP class is they all run to it to gain some false sense of achievement as though anything achieved on those classes has any real meaning. You are supposed to win playing those classes, doing do only proves you have half a brain.

 

There are 10 times as many Sorcs in the top ratings then Mercs, does that mean all those players are better players than the Mercs? I guarantee thats not true. Have they gotten better results, yes, they have, as well they should have due to the class and the fact that it is far easier to do so. It takes far more skill to achieve the same on lesser powered classes. I have FAR more respect for those who are competitive on lesser classes than i do those who go easy mode.

 

Telling me in an idiot for not re-rolling Sorc? I have one, ive played it, it bored me... its was mindlessly easy. i would outdo other classes in lesser gear while playing with myself and watching re-runs of Gilligan's island all at the same time. Instead of telling me im an idiot perhaps you should ask yourself why you needed that to achieve what you did.

 

If all you care about is maximizing your wins, then you go FOTM, you roll premades, and you eventually realize all you did is what you were set up to do. Grats, i guess.

 

For the record, you aren't an idiot for playing a poorly performing class, but because you have some vendetta against people playing what is strong for seemingly no reason. At no point did you provide any negatives in picking the stronger classes when PvPing. The only thing close was your own opinion that playing Sorc was boring, just as I found Merc to be extremely boring and never went back.

 

Playing a bad class doesn't make you a better person in the same way playing a better class doesn't make you a bad person. It also isn't indicative of skill. But if you have a goal to perform at your best, why would you not utilize the tools given to you?

 

I never said everyone should reroll, which you seem to allude to in your statements. If you don't like the class and that makes the game unenjoyable, then don't reroll it. But this stigma around playing a strong class is ridiculous, especially when the strong class can vary from patch to patch. A player who succeeds on every strong class as it comes up is a strong player. It's not like good Mercs can't destroy bad Sorcs or something.

 

At the end of the day, if you and I are at the same skill level, you are going to lose on the worse class. That doesn't make me better than you, but it achieves my goal of performing at my highest level. Which is ironic, because I don't even do that in this game. I play most of the classes, mainly Jugg/Guardian since 1.3. I haven't played a Sorc healer in PvP since the 1.2 changes to double dipping it's been that long and when I do play my Sorc it's in Madness.

 

In this game I'm more in the second party of what I originally mentioned. I play for enjoyment and something about Vig/Veng and flying around stabbing stuff is very fun to me. But I will very much play whatever is strongest in the games I take competitively. I do not, for instance, play fun, combo style decks in Hearthstone. I only play meta decks because they are what get me to Legend every season. But I understand not everyone cares primarily about winning and playing 15-20 games to finally have all the pieces come together and pull off something crazy can be a good time as well.

 

But as I originally said, if you want to win, I highly suggest rerolling something strong instead of complaining about how weak your class is.

[Floplag]

For the record, you aren't an idiot for playing a poorly performing class, but because you have some vendetta against people playing what is strong for seemingly no reason. At no point did you provide any negatives in picking the stronger classes when PvPing. The only thing close was your own opinion that playing Sorc was boring, just as I found Merc to be extremely boring and never went back.

 

Playing a bad class doesn't make you a better person in the same way playing a better class doesn't make you a bad person. It also isn't indicative of skill. But if you have a goal to perform at your best, why would you not utilize the tools given to you?

 

I never said everyone should reroll, which you seem to allude to in your statements. If you don't like the class and that makes the game unenjoyable, then don't reroll it. But this stigma around playing a strong class is ridiculous, especially when the strong class can vary from patch to patch. A player who succeeds on every strong class as it comes up is a strong player. It's not like good Mercs can't destroy bad Sorcs or something.

 

At the end of the day, if you and I are at the same skill level, you are going to lose on the worse class. That doesn't make me better than you, but it achieves my goal of performing at my highest level. Which is ironic, because I don't even do that in this game. I play most of the classes, mainly Jugg/Guardian since 1.3. I haven't played a Sorc healer in PvP since the 1.2 changes to double dipping it's been that long and when I do play my Sorc it's in Madness.

 

In this game I'm more in the second party of what I originally mentioned. I play for enjoyment and something about Vig/Veng and flying around stabbing stuff is very fun to me. But I will very much play whatever is strongest in the games I take competitively. I do not, for instance, play fun, combo style decks in Hearthstone. I only play meta decks because they are what get me to Legend every season. But I understand not everyone cares primarily about winning and playing 15-20 games to finally have all the pieces come together and pull off something crazy can be a good time as well.

 

But as I originally said, if you want to win, I highly suggest rerolling something strong instead of complaining about how weak your class is.

 

To clarify, I do not have any vendetta against those who play FOTM or OP classes, I do have one against those who think it means they are better than others or that equate the result to skill and run their mouths doing it.

 

Performing ones best has nothing to do with what class they play though. Yes, all things being equal i am more likely to lose against other players on a Merc that are playing stronger classes. This makes me be better to win that fight. Do i win them all, of course not, but i win a lot of them. Its a lot more rewarding to win on a Merc than a Sorc, that much i know.

 

I get your point, if by that you mean only getting the best results then you are correct. IF i took ranked seriously I would have little choice but to play something other than a Merc, which is part of the reason i no longer do ranked. I dont like being forced to play something to be competitive.

 

Where we differ is in our definition of performing at our best. You feel thats results driven, i do not. Performing my best means playing whatever class im playing the best i can. In a game with 7-15 other people on the map wins and losses is often beyond the control of any one person. I can play my part perfectly and still lose, or play poorly and squeak out a win. I gauge my performance based on my own play, not the result.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Floplag

[SlightlySychotic]

I don't know that I can agree with either of your points here either.

 

The "Commitment" is leveling a character to 65, pvping enough for gear, and augmenting gear. For anyone concerned with their viability in end game PvP, that 25-30 hours isn't much of an investment. Not to mention the game is 4 years old and anyone interested in PvP has multiple max level alts at this point anyway. If you really don't have the time, buy an insta 60 with cash or credits and you can be PvP ready in 10-15 hours with minimum 204s.

 

BW is responsible for balancing classes, but if you think there will ever be a time where 1-2 aren't in the gutter, you're delusional. You will always have to be prepared to swap to something else if you are wanting to be at the top of your game. In fact, the flexibility to perform on multiple classes is what makes a good PvPer overall.

 

Let's be honest, solo queue is already a trainwreck. People only participate because it's the only ranked available 99% of the time. Double the team size and your individual contribution may as well not even matter for ranked warzones. There is no way you will be able to carry 7 other players and so your rank won't even be your own. If you want games to be matched based on elo, just add a hidden ranking to regs to try and improve the matches. There is no way solo ranked warzones would be even slightly competitive.

 

25-30 hours is the length of a modern RPG, and still a considerable time investment to ask of someone who just finished leveling a character to endgame. So is purchasing a level 60 character which cost $20 at present (and will go up to $40 if and when the sale ever ends); that's the price of a new game. As for the game mostly being played by vets, that doesn't soften the blow: I have hundreds of hours committed to my main and probably a few hundred more spread amongst my alts. Sure, I could invest more time in one of my alts and probably do well with them but, again, I'm committed to my main. And it just seems wrong to say that I have to give up on my main because he's not viable in the one mode they've chosen to make ranked (especially when he's quite viable in other game modes).

To be blunt, I don't care if it can be rationalized: it's a legitimate reason for someone to quit.

 

As for solo ranked in general, if you don't like it you are quite welcome to find a group and play in a grouped queue. I always stress if people who are that critical of the solo queue just bothered to try to find a group then group ranked would pop all day.

[Jadescythe]

To clarify, I do not have any vendetta against those who play FOTM or OP classes, I do have one against those who think it means they are better than others or that equate the result to skill and run their mouths doing it.

 

Performing ones best has nothing to do with what class they play though. Yes, all things being equal i am more likely to lose against other players on a Merc that are playing stronger classes. This makes me be better to win that fight. Do i win them all, of course not, but i win a lot of them. Its a lot more rewarding to win on a Merc than a Sorc, that much i know.

 

I get your point, if by that you mean only getting the best results then you are correct. IF i took ranked seriously I would have little choice but to play something other than a Merc, which is part of the reason i no longer do ranked. I dont like being forced to play something to be competitive.

 

Where we differ is in our definition of performing at our best. You feel thats results driven, i do not. Performing my best means playing whatever class im playing the best i can. In a game with 7-15 other people on the map wins and losses is often beyond the control of any one person. I can play my part perfectly and still lose, or play poorly and squeak out a win. I gauge my performance based on my own play, not the result.

 

The red portion of your quote puts you squarely outside of the population I am talking about. Your goal in SWTOR is not to achieve the highest rank you can, but to have fun.

[Floplag]

The red portion of your quote puts you squarely outside of the population I am talking about. Your goal in SWTOR is not to achieve the highest rank you can, but to have fun.

 

Not at all, you miss my point.

I do not take ranked seriously because of those issues. I would like to play it, i really would, but being forced into cookie cutter specs and comps to do so isnt my cup of tea.

I do not take it seriously in the current meta that we have had for some time now, but that doenst mean im not interested and keep up with it.

Its very easy to exclude people like me i guess in your view, but thats also part of the reason your queue times are what they are and you see the same faces over and over and over.

There is a lot of desire to to take part, but many of us are left out either by the community or the meta itself.

[Jadescythe]

25-30 hours is the length of a modern RPG, and still a considerable time investment to ask of someone who just finished leveling a character to endgame. So is purchasing a level 60 character which cost $20 at present (and will go up to $40 if and when the sale ever ends); that's the price of a new game. As for the game mostly being played by vets, that doesn't soften the blow: I have hundreds of hours committed to my main and probably a few hundred more spread amongst my alts. Sure, I could invest more time in one of my alts and probably do well with them but, again, I'm committed to my main. And it just seems wrong to say that I have to give up on my main because he's not viable in the one mode they've chosen to make ranked (especially when he's quite viable in other game modes).

To be blunt, I don't care if it can be rationalized: it's a legitimate reason for someone to quit.

 

As for solo ranked in general, if you don't like it you are quite welcome to find a group and play in a grouped queue. I always stress if people who are that critical of the solo queue just bothered to try to find a group then group ranked would pop all day.

 

Your points come from a very emotional place. I only consider the logical possibilities when someone is attempting to be as competitive as possible. Rationally speaking, your character will not be a tier 1 class for the entirety of the game. It's always going to be subpar in some patch at some time. If you want to stay top tier during that time, you will need another character to use. If you aren't willing to do that, then you aren't in the population of players I'm talking about. You're playing for reasons other than simply winning as much as possible.

 

THERE ISN'T ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT. But BW is never going to be able to balance 8 ACs with 3 disciplines each at the same time.

 

As for solo ranked, it's not something that I have an issue with existing. But how do you rate someone's performance accurately in an 8v8 match? You have so little impact on the outcome of that match, there is no way that even your winrate would strongly reflect your own performance. It's already pretty iffy in 4v4 deathmatch, 8v8 objectives would be nearly impossible to rate.

[teclado]

I would like to play it, i really would, but being forced into cookie cutter specs and comps to do so isnt my cup of tea.

Just do it, man. There are actually quite a few Mercs in there. Some of them actually do pretty well. There are actually more tier 1 Mercs on Harb than Juggs. Check out Sleidra, Stella, Tbh, Smh, As'ana.

 

I'm playing Vengeance Jugg because I'm having fun with it. Honestly it is probably the worst ranked class. Don't even care. It's my token farmer.

[Floplag]

Just do it, man. There are actually quite a few Mercs in there. Some of them actually do pretty well. There are actually more tier 1 Mercs on Harb than Juggs. Check out Sleidra, Stella, Tbh, Smh, As'ana.

 

I'm playing Vengeance Jugg because I'm having fun with it. Honestly it is probably the worst ranked class. Don't even care. It's my token farmer.

 

Most of them are better than me and i think people would queue from Europe to global me at this point. Seriously though most of them have good teams and guilds they work with, im just the lone wolf with a big mouth.

 

I have one of every class, i could easily swap around if i wanted to, but i try not to be a hypocrite of things i criticize.

 

I think i might try healing more, maybe that would give me an in. Though i gotta be honest putting an even bigger target on my head is a bit unnerving.