New ideas for F2P, restrictions, and bringing new people in...

[TX_Angel]

There are many threads about how to "improve" F2P, such as credit cap limits. I think some of these might be missing the point. Adding a million F2P players who don't pay anything at all, won't help the future of the game. Adding paying customers is what we need.

 

---

 

Many people make the case that the F2P experience doesn't give you a good experience. Fair enough, here is a different viewpoint:

 

Remove all restrictions on F2P, but cap it at lvl 45. Want to level to 65? Sub, period. No restrictions to F2P. If you sub, go over 45, and then unsub, you can't play that toon at all until you sub.

 

Now why lvl 45 you ask? I thought about this and there are several reasons.

 

1. If you want to do all 8 class stories, this prevents you from actually finishing them, but you can get close. Want to see them all finished? Sub.

 

2. If you PvP, this puts you near the bottom of the middle PvP bracket. If you cap at 40, you're at the top of the bottom bracket and people will F2P just to dominate lowbie PvP, so putting it at 45 in the second bracket, you'll get dominated by lvl 64 subs. Want to end game PvP? Sub.

 

3. It lets you see the full nature of the game, or 90% of it anyway. You can explore planets, do tons of missions, GSF/PvP/FP, etc. You don't have to stop playing at lvl 45, you can keep doing space on rails, GSF, and PvP if you want. But the class missions will become nearly impossible on Corellia if you're capped at 45, so at that point the game prompts you to sub if you wish to continue.

 

--- Next Point ---

 

I do think that F2P accounts need a valid credit card attached, for verification purposes. Accounts banned for TOS violations will have all related accounts banned.

 

Now I know that some people will say, "but, but, what if I'm a kid or don't have a credit card?" Well then you aren't likely to EVER pay anything, are you? And thus we don't need you. The whole idea is to convert you to paying, and so having a card on file will allow that. It also allows easy in-game purchases of CC. It also reduces the number of junk/throw away accounts created.

 

I do *NOT* think that Bioware should sell credits in general, but given how many credits are in the game, I wouldn't mind if new toons on new accounts got 100,000 credits for free to start, and the option to *ONE TIME* purchase 1,000,000 credits for $1. (this would be a one time per account offer, per credit card, not per toon)

 

This serves two purposes. First, it provides a good deal and a reason for people to attach a credit card to their account. It also gives new players a bit of a jump start towards playing a game that many of us have been playing for years and have billions, so they can buy some stuff.

 

Finally, I think that Bioware should sell sub tokens for real dollars (not CC), say $20 per token for 30 days of play, and they should be tradable in game. Easiest way to turn money into credits without rampant inflation. That will do more to kill gold sellers than anything else, IMHO.

 

If you don't have real life money, but you have time, you can play, earn credits, and buy sub tokens from the GTN/friends/guildies to sub and enjoy the full game.

[casirabit]

No,

 

credit cards should not be attached to the accounts. I am a sub and do not have a credit card attached to my account. I don't care if they are a company there is always a way a person can get that information from your account and use it. So no.

 

I know a lot of people that are subs that refuse to use a credit card attach to their accounts due to security reasons.

 

Even with the security key my account was almost hijacked once but I have the habit of daily checking my email and saw an email that requested my security key be removed so it can be done unless you are watching your email carefully.

Edited March 14, 2016 by casirabit

[Warrgames]

WOW

Bad ideas.

[peter_plankskull]

Come on TX... we literally have a thread going on about this...and you just posted in it a few minutes ago. I guess ill give it a go however...

 

EDIT-... did you really just copy and paste the majority of one post and make it a new thread .

 

I never thought of SWTOR as a pay to win game, but imo this will start the trend of it turning into one. Sorry, but just because someone pays more than me doesn't mean he should stomp me into the ground and get god mode in PVP. Being a sub should be about convenience and cosmetics, not limiting gameplay aspects such as level to get smacked around in PVP. If I truly wanted to see the story for free then I could simply just YouTube it, yes I would lose the immersion and such, but if I progressed that far into the story just to get smacked at the very last planet to be required to sub I would use a social media outlet.

Edited March 14, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[TX_Angel]

Come on TX... we literally have a thread going on about this...and you just posted in it a few minutes ago. I guess ill give it a go however...

 

I was trying to go in a different direction than the "credit cap" or "change restrictions" direction that the other threads were headed in.

 

Rather, remove all restrictions, but cap at some level less than max (if you don't like 45, it could be 50, or 55, or 40, or whatever).

 

The idea is to improve the experience, while making F2P not really a long term option. Kinda like trial accounts in Wow.

[Andryah]

No,

 

credit cards should not be attached to the accounts. I am a sub and do not have a credit card attached to my account. I don't care if they are a company there is always a way a person can get that information from your account and use it. So no.

 

I know a lot of people that are subs that refuse to use a credit card attach to their accounts due to security reasons.

 

Even with the security key my account was almost hijacked once but I have the habit of daily checking my email and saw an email that requested my security key be removed so it can be done unless you are watching your email carefully.

 

Very much agree. Especially when you can go to Amazon and buy one time 60, 90 and 180 day game time codes. In fact, last time I did, the 180 day time code at Amazon was cheaper then the 180 day sub price here at swtor.com.

 

NEVER attach a credit card to an internet merchant site if you don't have to. And if you have to... never attach one to a gaming site... period.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Andryah

[Warrgames]

Very much agree. Especially when you can go to Amazon and buy one time 60, 90 and 180 day game time codes. In fact, last time I did, the 180 day time code at Amazon was cheaper then the 180 day sub price here at swtor.com.

 

NEVER attach a credit card to an internet merchant site if you don't have to. And if you have to... never attach one to a gaming site... period.

 

Why not?

[DreadtechSavant]

NO and go away.

 

Why does every player think they have the FIX for everything. Never do, not a single one of them.

[TX_Angel]

Very much agree. Especially when you can go to Amazon and buy one time 60, 90 and 180 day game time codes. In fact, last time I did, the 180 day time code at Amazon was cheaper then the 180 day sub price here at swtor.com.

 

NEVER attach a credit card to an internet merchant site if you don't have to. And if you have to... never attach one to a gaming site... period.

 

Fair enough, perhaps an option is Bioware could make a 7 day single use time card for $1.99 on Amazon. This way people have to spend *something* to activate an account.

 

The idea is to prevent someone making 50 accounts and spamming/botting the game. Unless you require someone put real identity, real money into the game, you'll never get away from that problem.

[TX_Angel]

Very much agree. Especially when you can go to Amazon and buy one time 60, 90 and 180 day game time codes. In fact, last time I did, the 180 day time code at Amazon was cheaper then the 180 day sub price here at swtor.com.

 

NEVER attach a credit card to an internet merchant site if you don't have to. And if you have to... never attach one to a gaming site... period.

 

Side note: How do you buy the time cards from Amazon without giving Amazon your CC info? And how is your CC info safer buying time cards at Target? Or did everyone forget about their huge data breach?

 

This is why you get a credit card, if someone steals it and charges a billion dollars to it, you don't have to pay it, simple as that.

[robertthebard]

Why not?

 

I would prefer not to ever again, after I had my information stolen from a gaming site and spending 2 thousand dollars both fixing what they did, and paying off my bank so that I could get my checks autodeposited every month. Especially with sites like BW, where people are mad at them, and think that lashing out through their customers is a grand idea.

[Warrgames]

Fair enough, perhaps an option is Bioware could make a 7 day single use time card for $1.99 on Amazon. This way people have to spend *something* to activate an account.

 

The idea is to prevent someone making 50 accounts and spamming/botting the game. Unless you require someone put real identity, real money into the game, you'll never get away from that problem.

 

As long as someone is making more than they are losing with the lose of an account nothing is going to stop them. If you charge a $100 to play a game and you pull $1000 from spamming/botting than you just made 10 times as much as you lost.

[TX_Angel]

EDIT-... did you really just copy and paste the majority of one post and make it a new thread .

 

I never thought of SWTOR as a pay to win game, but imo this will start the trend of it turning into one. Sorry, but just because someone pays more than me doesn't mean he should stomp me into the ground and get god mode in PVP. Being a sub should be about convenience and cosmetics, not limiting gameplay aspects such as level to get smacked around in PVP. If I truly wanted to see the story for free then I could simply just YouTube it, yes I would lose the immersion and such, but if I progressed that far into the story just to get smacked at the very last planet to be required to sub I would use a social media outlet.

 

I modified it quite a bit from that post, I thought it deserved its own thread.

 

As for pay to win, you must have a different version of pay to win than I do. Capping F2P people at 45 to hold them lower in the bracket solves a big problem. If you cap them at 40, then they are the top end of the lowbie bracket. There are PvP trolls who would create a separate F2P account to do nothing BUT beat up lowbies if you allow that.

 

As for the end of the story, you're right that some people might do that. But keep in mind I'm coming at this from the view point that people should be paying for the game. If you aren't paying, then what value do you bring?

 

Bioware has said multiple times that the vast majority (like 80%) of CC sales are from subs. F2P is a nice trial, but if you want to play the game, bloody sub to it.

 

Perhaps I'm just tired of all the complaints about "gimmie, gimmie, gimmie" and want to see the game go back to more of a sub model, with a trial option, like World of Warcraft has.

[TX_Angel]

I would prefer not to ever again, after I had my information stolen from a gaming site and spending 2 thousand dollars both fixing what they did, and paying off my bank so that I could get my checks autodeposited every month. Especially with sites like BW, where people are mad at them, and think that lashing out through their customers is a grand idea.

 

Both myself and my wife have been victims of identity theft. I've even had someone else file a false tax return in my name.

 

The credit card companies, PayPal, the credit reporting agencies, and even the IRS were nothing but nice as could be about the whole thing. We filed police reports, provided the information to all the various companies, the problem went away. Didn't cost me a penny other than my time, which sucks, but welcome to life.

 

Now if you're using checking account debit cards online, then there is your problem. Don't do that. My debit cards are in my safe at home, I never use them.

[robertthebard]

I modified it quite a bit from that post, I thought it deserved its own thread.

 

As for pay to win, you must have a different version of pay to win than I do. Capping F2P people at 45 to hold them lower in the bracket solves a big problem. If you cap them at 40, then they are the top end of the lowbie bracket. There are PvP trolls who would create a separate F2P account to do nothing BUT beat up lowbies if you allow that.

 

As for the end of the story, you're right that some people might do that. But keep in mind I'm coming at this from the view point that people should be paying for the game. If you aren't paying, then what value do you bring?

 

Bioware has said multiple times that the vast majority (like 80%) of CC sales are from subs. F2P is a nice trial, but if you want to play the game, bloody sub to it.

 

Perhaps I'm just tired of all the complaints about "gimmie, gimmie, gimmie" and want to see the game go back to more of a sub model, with a trial option, like World of Warcraft has.

 

They have an option on Amazon right now, I think, that gives some free sub time. This is as far as they really need to go. A similar package with RotHC attached, back when you had to buy it instead of getting it with a sub, I think???, was what got me in the door, and paying, most of the time, since.

[Warrgames]

I would prefer not to ever again, after I had my information stolen from a gaming site and spending 2 thousand dollars both fixing what they did, and paying off my bank so that I could get my checks autodeposited every month. Especially with sites like BW, where people are mad at them, and think that lashing out through their customers is a grand idea.

 

Really? How long ago was this? Depending on the time it takes you to report the card stole after you notice it stolen effects the amount you are reasonable. I don't have the figures in front of me but the most you were liable for is $50 within a 7 day window. This is if you live in the US.

[TX_Angel]

As long as someone is making more than they are losing with the lose of an account nothing is going to stop them. If you charge a $100 to play a game and you pull $1000 from spamming/botting than you just made 10 times as much as you lost.

 

I was trying to compromise with the prior poster. This is why I suggested people had to put a credit card on file, it makes it easier to ban the problem children.

 

Yes, people have multiple cards, and can get temp CC numbers from some cards, but it raises the challenge level and you can only have so many billing addresses before a pattern starts to emerge.

 

Let me turn this around. Forget the dollars for a min, how do you verify the identity of those using your service so that if they turn bad, you can ban them and keep them banned? All large companies have this problem, some are better at it than others.

[TX_Angel]

Really? How long ago was this? Depending on the time it takes you to report the card stole after you notice it stolen effects the amount you are reasonable. I don't have the figures in front of me but the most you were liable for is $50 within a 7 day window. This is if you live in the US.

 

Most decent credit card companies in the US no longer hold you liable for anything, if it isn't yours and you report it in a reasonable period of time.

 

I bank with Bank of America, they fixed everything within one day of the problem, no muss or fuss. If questionable charges hit my card, they text message me and ask me if they are mine or not, "approve or deny" they ask in short.

 

You're also not liable for debit card fraud, but you can be out the money up to 10 days or so, which will hurt some people, which is why I suggest actual credit cards, bullet proof protection.

 

Side note: If you have poor credit, Bank of America will give almost anyone a secured card. Take $200 cash in and ask for one, poof, instant credit card with $200 limit, even gives you rewards and no annual fee. Even if you've filed bankruptcy, even if you included BofA in that bankruptcy, they'll still do it.

 

There is no excuse in 2016 to not have a real credit card, too many things require it (online transactions for one).

[robertthebard]

I was trying to compromise with the prior poster. This is why I suggested people had to put a credit card on file, it makes it easier to ban the problem children.

 

Yes, people have multiple cards, and can get temp CC numbers from some cards, but it raises the challenge level and you can only have so many billing addresses before a pattern starts to emerge.

 

Let me turn this around. Forget the dollars for a min, how do you verify the identity of those using your service so that if they turn bad, you can ban them and keep them banned? All large companies have this problem, some are better at it than others.

 

In an environment like this one, you really can't. There's a lot more people that could make an account than there are people to monitor them, and frankly with spoofed IPs as a prime example, it's hard to keep track that way too. email accounts are a dime a dozen, figuratively speaking, since you can get lots of free ones if you wanted to. One game used to deny service to people with Yahoo accounts, which meant that when I went to try that game out, I was unable to, since I'm not using my personal email accounts for gaming. I have an account that I only use for gaming sites and game registration. If the site won't accept that address, I move on.

[rklontz]

Most decent credit card companies in the US no longer hold you liable for anything, if it isn't yours and you report it in a reasonable period of time.

 

I bank with Bank of America, they fixed everything within one day of the problem, no muss or fuss. If questionable charges hit my card, they text message me and ask me if they are mine or not, "approve or deny" they ask in short.

 

You're also not liable for debit card fraud, but you can be out the money up to 10 days or so, which will hurt some people, which is why I suggest actual credit cards, bullet proof protection.

 

Side note: If you have poor credit, Bank of America will give almost anyone a secured card. Take $200 cash in and ask for one, poof, instant credit card with $200 limit, even gives you rewards and no annual fee. Even if you've filed bankruptcy, even if you included BofA in that bankruptcy, they'll still do it.

 

There is no excuse in 2016 to not have a real credit card, too many things require it (online transactions for one).

 

With the astronomical amount of credit card debt in this society there's every reason in the world to not have one.

For a game company to require a credit card denies access to the game for to many people.

 

Then there is the issue of credit card fraud. Even though you aren't liable the hassle involved with disputes, account closures, re entering info and so forth isn't worth it when you can easily walk into any major department store and buy a game card.

 

F2P restrictions are fine as is and personally if you ask me they need to be stricter. If its basically a trial account it should be treated as one.

[MWidowmaker]

f2p should not have stupid restrictions like not being able to hide head slot or task bar restrictions or such low credit restrictions, raise the credit cap 3fold, allow max taskbars/titles displays/ those sorts of things, but keep the exp gain where it is at and the fp/ops/wz restrictions and the artifact restrictions

[lightSaberAddiCt]

f2p should not have stupid restrictions like not being able to hide head slot or task bar restrictions or such low credit restrictions, raise the credit cap 3fold, allow max taskbars/titles displays/ those sorts of things, but keep the exp gain where it is at and the fp/ops/wz restrictions and the artifact restrictions

 

So basically take ALL RESTRICTIONS off casuals that for the majority, admittedly, have no interest in OPs or WZs.

 

yeah not to self serving....

[robertthebard]

f2p should not have stupid restrictions like not being able to hide head slot or task bar restrictions or such low credit restrictions, raise the credit cap 3fold, allow max taskbars/titles displays/ those sorts of things, but keep the exp gain where it is at and the fp/ops/wz restrictions and the artifact restrictions

 

Sorry, but no, cosmetic items, such as hiding the helmet slot should totally require an unlock if you're not subbed. It's cosmetic and doesn't adversely affect game play. If you don't like your current hat, find a new one? I'm on the fence with the hot bars, but since I bought some of the unlocks when I came back from my "medical leave" and couldn't pay my sub yet, but had coins on account, I bought 'em. The credit cap for F2P should be drastically reduced, not raised, to make life harder for credit sellers.

[Keldalus]

I rarely sub to games anymore. However, I do spend when I play F2P games. In the last month or so I've bought outfits, speeder skills, I bought a package on Amazon that included 90 days of sub. I didn't buy it for the sub it was just included. That's how I'm posting here. I still have Cartel Coins left from money I've spent. If I had seen that the F2P game was level capped I would've never come back. Would've been spending my $$$ elsewhere.

[MWidowmaker]

So basically take ALL RESTRICTIONS off casuals that for the majority, admittedly, have no interest in OPs or WZs.

 

yeah not to self serving....

 

self serving? you really have no clue so you make **** up? yes the restrictions i want to remove are the nickel and dime ******** ones that i have seen pop up in other f2p threads, sorry if you have no ability to look them up or remember them, then again thats not my problem