Poor Sportsmanship running rampant in Ops and PvP

[-PassingStar-]

On the other hand, when I was a newbie in this game, it was very important TO ME to never be a drag on the group. I spent time on the forums, reading advice on how to play in a group. I learned about kill order and CC. I asked questions in the class forums about how to play better.

That's great. I think most people should do the same before trying end-game content. However, there are those who wont, and never will. I've run into a few in Fps and Ops; some were real pains, while others were really great people that just wanted to try something new.

 

Now the question still remains... Do they deserve to be treated poorly just because they didn't prepare the way you did? If you're truly honest I think you'd say.,.. no. Remember, you don't have to respect their skill level, or lack thereof, but it's in the games best interest that we, as a community, try to be more understanding and less reactionary towards inexperienced players.

 

We need to "grow" the player base, not sabotage it by unnecessarily scolding those who don't always meet our expectations.

[mikebevo]

Now the question still remains... Do they deserve to be treated poorly just because they didn't prepare the way you did?

Define treated poorly?

 

If you mean treated to name calling and belittlement over their lack of prowess of a game of course not.

 

If you mean a pug should teach them to play their class or role, then of course not either. I'll give advice and help, but inside a operation is not where someone should learn their rotation and abilities. I am all for teaching mechanics if needed, but I'm not for making the rest of the group wait for one person to learn something they should have known before entering a operation.

 

I am all for helping new players, but not by disrespecting the other 7 or 15 members of the group. I've failed at launch 1 time in group content. I was not geared or ready to heal HM D7. Got to final boss and it was a utter failure. I just didn't know how to heal and move. It was a month before I did group content again. In that month I took the time to learn all my abilities and how to property gear myself for the instance. Even then I wouldn't have entered group play in a pug. I was with friends. You want to learn to play in group play, then learn with friends not a pug.

[Pagy]

It's sad that the anti-entitlement movement that has taken hold in recent years has grown beyond its intended purpose ( reducing fraud in social services ), and become a battle cry for those who can't be bothered with treating random people ( strangers in-game and RL ) with a modicum of human decency. - Social apathy at its worst.

human decency? words. ont he internet. from strangers.

move on.

 

I may not agree with your opinion on this issue, but that doesn't mean that you're not "entitled" to be treated with respect.

treat you with respect? why should i? sorry, but again, youre not entitled to it. your comfort zone is your problem, not mine. Edited February 16, 2016 by Pagy

[-PassingStar-]

human decency? words. on the internet. from strangers. move on. treat you with respect? why should i? sorry, but again, youre not entitled to it. your comfort zone is your problem, not mine.

I hope you can one day understand that how you treat others is a reflection of who you are as a person. From your posts all I can assume is that you're a very angry, and neglected person. I hope you're eventually able to find some peace.

Define treated poorly? If you mean treated to name calling and belittlement over their lack of prowess of a game of course not.

That's exactly want I mean.

[Pagy]

I hope you can one day understand that how you treat others is a reflection of who you are as a person.

that's pretty myopic.

From your posts all I can assume is that you're a very angry, and neglected person. I hope you're eventually able to find some peace.

how is anything i said "angry"?

 

and grats on the personal attacks while deriding people for making personal attacks. you win the hypocrisy trophy.

[squirrelballz]

that's pretty myopic.

how is anything i said "angry"?

 

and grats on the personal attacks while deriding people for making personal attacks. you win the hypocrisy trophy.

 

They said assume they did not verbally attack you. Reading some of your posts I can only assume the same as well. See no verbal attack there just an assumption. So sorry poor troll attempt is poor.

 

[Pagy]

They said assume they did not verbally attack you. Reading some of your posts I can only assume the same as well. See no verbal attack there just an assumption. So sorry poor troll attempt is poor.

 

ok so calling people a troll is good namecalling, and namecalling in raids in bad...gotcha.

[squirrelballz]

ok so calling people a troll is good namecalling, and namecalling in raids in bad...gotcha.

 

Your attempt at "trolling" was poor I don't think you are troll though I'm inclined to assume by your posts that what passingstar said maybe true unless I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

 

Edited February 16, 2016 by squirrelballz

[Khevar]

Now the question still remains... Do they deserve to be treated poorly just because they didn't prepare the way you did? If you're truly honest I think you'd say.,.. no. Remember, you don't have to respect their skill level, or lack thereof, but it's in the games best interest that we, as a community, try to be more understanding and less reactionary towards inexperienced players.

If the inexperienced player asks a question -- I'm 100% there. Anyone that actively expresses an interest in getting better as a player or learning about the flashpoint or operation gets my attention and I'm happy to help.

 

Next would be the player who is making mistakes, but responds positively to "unasked" advice. As example, a player that is breaking CC's by zerging around. I don't mind assuming that the player is inexperienced and offering some tips. If the player is willing to listen, I'm pleased as punch.

 

Next would be the player that rejects that advice. At that point, I write them off as a complete and utter waste of time. I'll still finish the flashpoint or OP (barring truly egregious behavior) -- but such a player is worth less than a jar of dirt to me. Not only are they making the group experience worse, they're too arrogant to give a crap.

 

Lastly would be the silent player. I ALWAYS start every pug group with some variation of "hello". The player that doesn't respond at all had better know what they're doing.

 

Note that I've no problem with someone who's just there for the reward and doesn't want to interact BUT does a good job. This is different from the player who is messing up and doesn't even know how to type in voice chat. Or perhaps is unwilling to.

 

This are some examples what I meant by "respect goes both ways".

Edited February 16, 2016 by Khevar

[TX_Angel]

That's quite a bit different however from someone piping up at the start of an SM OP and saying its their first time though, and without hesitation some tool or two initiates the vote kick. I'm not saying there aren't legit reasons to vote kick someone, new or otherwise, but demanding that everyone in a SM Op should know the fight is just plain douchebaggery by players who forget that once upon a time in a galaxy far, far away...they also hadn't run that OP 57 times.

 

Keep in mind that this was less of an issue when there were new ops and the existing ops weren't OLD...

 

At some point, those of us who have run it 57 times no longer want to do it the old slow way, at least not without signing up for it.

 

I've started to tell people in game, "if you know the op and are geared for it, use GF, if not, find a guild that is willing to train you".

 

I know some people will disagree with that, and that's fine. But while you make a fair point that many of us were new once, I'd like to see the new people take some consideration that some of us are NOT new and don't want to spend 2 hours on an op that should take 1 hour.

[-PassingStar-]

This are some examples what I meant by "respect goes both ways".

I see nothing wrong with anything you wrote. I feel the same way in many respects. My only concern are those players who'll respond to a bad player with remarks like...

 

• You're a worthless POS!

• Go kill yourself!

 

We've all seen remarks like that in FPs and Ops.

They said assume they did not verbally attack you. Reading some of your posts I can only assume the same as well. See no verbal attack there just an assumption. So sorry poor troll attempt is poor.

Thank you for coming to my defense. I appreciate that.

Edited February 16, 2016 by -PassingStar-

[TX_Angel]

The first exemple was a guy on a commando in SM EV, queued as DPS, using plasma cell, in 216/220 coms tank gear and using a commando heal ability. Could the group have cleared the content with that guy in group? Yes, no problem since a guildmate and myself were on our main and we could have 2 dpsed the entire thing.

 

The second exemple is in the HM FP, Boarding Party. Got a Assassin Tank 1st mob, he pull and died before he heal could do anything, it's then that I inspected him. He was without a shield, with no force form activated and in dps/heal gear augmented with alacrity. I whispered him, if he had some tank gear after that 1st mob and got no anwser and he pulled the 2nd mob. He got kicked at that point, because he pulled the 2nd mob(and died in 3s) when I was starting the vote to kick.

 

I've got no problem with teaching people in pug group how to do a FP or an Operation if they never did it before. What I expect from people that use GF is to have some understanding of the class and role that they are playing. It's not my place to teach them in a pug group, how to gear themselves, which role their discipline is for, the most basic rotation for their discipline or how to fill their chosen role in the Trinity with a minimum of success. If it's a guildmate, I'll teach them those things, outside of group content, but not for a pug that queued/joinned a GF run.

 

^ thank you, this, all this...

 

There is "teaching the FP/OP", then there is "teaching basics on how the game works".

 

I can't tell you how many times I've seen people without any color crystal in their MH or OH. I ask about it and they say "oh, I don't have one yet, I'll get one later".

 

Really? You showed up to HM FP or ops without a bloody color crystal? Yea, thanks, but you haven't even bothered, so I'm not going to either.

 

Or people outright missing things, like a relic or two (not even a low level, nothing at all in the slot).

[-PassingStar-]

Ok. we've moved off topic a bit. This thread isn't about the existence of bad players. We all know they're out there. What were discussing is how we choose to communicate with them. Are we civil, or abusive?

Granted, I'm relatively new to MMO's, but I've notice a rather nasty trend when it comes to the behavior of certain players within PvP WarZones and Ops. For them the slightest mistake, by anyone, warrants a nasty ( profanity laden ) whisper or group wide remark that includes anything from questioning ones sexual orientation, a racial slur, and/or their lack of genitalia. - no it's not funny, and if you think it is then you're one of the ones I'm talking about.

 

As a new'ish player I can honestly tell you that these kinds of people are what drive the population down. People don't come here to be mistreated by individuals that probably wouldn't have the courage to say anything to anyone face to face. I firmly believe, after discussing this with literally hundreds of SWTOR players, the number one reason they don't participate in Ops or PvP, is because they don't want to deal with unwarranted and often cruel criticism. Basically, they're afraid to play end-game content because a vocal minority of MMO misfits have come to the conclusion that viciously berating people for mistakes is the norm. It isn't. Its uncalled for and rude.

 

Yes, PvP and Ops can be very competitive, and that can generate a lot of aggressive behavior, but there is no reason to attack someone because they're...

 

• New to the game.

• Inexperienced with the content

• Don't fully understand how the role they've chosen is supposed to be played. ( rotation, gearing )

 

Instead of attacking these people wouldn't it be more beneficial to offer advise? Perhaps they've never had the chance to do a certain Ops before, or are trying PvP for the first time.

 

I've completed every Op in the game from SM to HM, most NiM, and have 100 valor, but I've grown tried of inexperienced players being abused just because they're "not good enough."

 

C'mon, give these people a break. This game needs new players, and treating them like crap isn't going to compel them to stay.

 

Just my two cents.

Edited February 16, 2016 by -PassingStar-