Redesign for merc disciplines, make the class a viable choice for once

[Owynyo]

Season 7 is about to start and for once I'd like mercs to be a viable choice for a team in 4v4 Team Ranked. Especially dps mercs.

 

The first thing that has always bothered me is how mercs have to take 2 heroic disciplines in order to get the same defenses as an AP Powertech.

(https://i.gyazo.com/aade6c2ce3e318fbbc9c5d52b50189c0.png - 30% DR in Stuns and -30% aoe damage taken / 3s cooldown reduction on Energy Shield when you're hit (1.5s icd), 20% chance on damage taken to get small absorb shield every 10s)

People will argue that merc is ranged and will therefore not sit in as many stuns as a PT or won't get hit as much. Which is true for 8v8 normals but wrong for 4v4 Team Ranked. Kiting is discouraged in Team Ranked because Guard Range is only 15m which leaves little room for a merc to work with.

 

My suggestion: Make both disciplines a passive, just like PT.

 

 

Now that we have lost two disciplines, we obviously need new ones.

 

 

• One thing that WOULD make sense is giving us the ability to cast WHILE running when Hydraulic Overrides / Hold the Line is up. PTs get +45% movement speed as a MELEE. We should get something similar. I feel like casting while running would be a decent addition as it's something I always felt would be awesome in Solo Ranked and probably Team Ranked too.
   
  
• Another thing I find would be interesting is add a discipline that adds a second charge to Emergency Scan. This is obviously more of a buff for the Bodyguard spec but I feel like they could use the extra hps it would provide.
  

 

One Quality of Life change for Arsenal mercs while we're at it: It would be really neat if we could split up the stacks for Tracer Lock. By this I mean that the merc builds the stacks for Rail Shot and the ones for Rapid Scan separately. This would help a ton with off heals which we lack compared to other hybrid classes.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Owynyo

[Lhancelot]

Season 7 is about to start and for once I'd like mercs to be a viable choice for a team in 4v4 Team Ranked. Especially dps mercs.

 

The first thing that has always bothered me is how mercs have to take 2 heroic disciplines in order to get the same defenses as an AP Powertech.

(https://i.gyazo.com/aade6c2ce3e318fbbc9c5d52b50189c0.png - 30% DR in Stuns and -30% aoe damage taken / 3s cooldown reduction on Energy Shield when you're hit (1.5s icd), 20% chance on damage taken to get small absorb shield every 10s)

People will argue that merc is ranged and will therefore not sit in as many stuns as a PT or won't get hit as much. Which is true for 8v8 normals but wrong for 4v4 Team Ranked. Kiting is discouraged in Team Ranked because Guard Range is only 15m which leaves little room for a merc to work with.

 

My suggestion: Make both disciplines a passive, just like PT.

 

 

Now that we have lost two disciplines, we obviously need new ones.

 

 

• One thing that WOULD make sense is giving us the ability to cast WHILE running when Hydraulic Overrides / Hold the Line is up. PTs get +45% movement speed as a MELEE. We should get something similar. I feel like casting while running would be a decent addition as it's something I always felt would be awesome in Solo Ranked and probably Team Ranked too.
   
  
• Another thing I find would be interesting is add a discipline that adds a second charge to Emergency Scan. This is obviously more of a buff for the Bodyguard spec but I feel like they could use the extra hps it would provide.
  

 

One Quality of Life change for Arsenal mercs while we're at it: It would be really neat if we could split up the stacks for Tracer Lock. By this I mean that the merc builds the stacks for Rail Shot and the ones for Rapid Scan separately. This would help a ton with off heals which we lack compared to other hybrid classes.

 

It's good to have dreams.

[Owynyo]

Expected more from someone who said not too long ago

 

mercs are not awful now, they just really struggle with 4v4s without a lot of team support. It becomes a hindrance when the entire team has to focus on one objective though, to save the merc.

 

Guess I was wrong.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Owynyo

[DerSchneider]

What you are suggesting will make merc close to be overpowered. Merc needs focus breaker, not more defensives. Probably some analogue of sorc bubble without healing (I imagine this as jetpack boost to the air, where you can't be hit). That's because merc has another big in-combat cooldowns such as K.O. and D.R. shield, sorc lacks them. Edited January 12, 2016 by DerSchneider

[Didy_Kush]

Currently Arsenal Merc is viable in team ranked and if you're good enough it works in solo ranked. Obviously that's not everyone. To make the class more viable in terms of solo ranked and even team ranked two simple changes need to happen.

 

Energy Rebounder and Stabilized Armor need to be merged into 1 talent just like Powertechs have in their AP tree.

Rocket Out needs to be able to used while rooted and should not be affected by snares.

 

If that would happen it the class would be fine.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Didy_Kush

[aristrokratie]

Currently Arsenal Merc is viable in team ranked and if you're good enough it works in solo ranked. Obviously that's not everyone. To make the class more viable in terms of solo ranked and even team ranked two simple changes need to happen.

 

Energy Rebounder and Stabilized Armor need to be merged into 1 talent just like Powertechs have in their AP tree.

Rocket Out needs to be able to used while rooted and should not be affected by snares.

 

If that would happen it the class would be fine.

 

Mercs have the highest and strongest burstdamage.

If you give them something you have to take something, I don't want them to be all around because their lol slow+ burst + net is just too much.

 

If mercs were to get anti focus tools net needs to be tied to healing discipline only.

[Lalainnia]

Mercs as a whole need better utility choices as someone above posted

 

Arsenal is fine if anything a bit confused how it avoided the surge nerfs but w/e

 

IQ needs better heat management Jet re bounder taken from the utility tree and placed back into the spec and its Cylinder proc un nerfed. Speed to burn needs separate procs for either instant power shot/ serrated shots and rapid scan Someone had this idea for arsenal but imo it would fit better for IQ as arsenals rapid scan already gets a 20- 100% power buff depending on stacks

 

Bodyguard needs a rework, or just give it sorc treatment and buff all healing moves and lower energy costs while buffing energy regain

[Lalainnia]

What you are suggesting will make merc close to be overpowered. Merc needs focus breaker, not more defensives. Probably some analogue of sorc bubble without healing (I imagine this as jetpack boost to the air, where you can't be hit). That's because merc has another big in-combat cooldowns such as K.O. and D.R. shield, sorc lacks them.

 

Just a note sorcs do have access to the mercs DR shield on a shorter cd but shorter duration with suppression utility which is amazing. They also sort of have K.O if they take Corrupted Barrier which is a H2F

[DariusCalera]

Mercs have the highest and strongest burstdamage.

If you give them something you have to take something, I don't want them to be all around because their lol slow+ burst + net is just too much.

 

If mercs were to get anti focus tools net needs to be tied to healing discipline only.

 

Snipers/slingers can still hit just as hard as a merc/mando can. Also, their burst is a lot more consistent and can more easily be counted on in a hard swap situation.

[Owynyo]

Currently Arsenal Merc is viable in team ranked and if you're good enough it works in solo ranked. Obviously that's not everyone. To make the class more viable in terms of solo ranked and even team ranked two simple changes need to happen.

 

Energy Rebounder and Stabilized Armor need to be merged into 1 talent just like Powertechs have in their AP tree.

Rocket Out needs to be able to used while rooted and should not be affected by snares.

 

I'd be happy with these changes. And while I agree that especially dps mercs have never been this viable for team ranked before they're still somewhat of a burden and not one of the top choices.

[Didy_Kush]

Mercs have the highest and strongest burstdamage.

If you give them something you have to take something, I don't want them to be all around because their lol slow+ burst + net is just too much.

 

If mercs were to get anti focus tools net needs to be tied to healing discipline only.

 

Powertech burst still dumpsters Merc burst. Anyway you've got to be talking about regs which I have zero respect for since 2.4 made 8v8 irrelevant and in way should represent balance. Since Merc in solo ranked is laughable and in teams it's finally becoming decent.

 

Merc would be perfectly fine with those changes with out losing anything. If you have problems with mercs then Idunno what to tell you other than get good.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Didy_Kush

[DerSchneider]

Just a note sorcs do have access to the mercs DR shield on a shorter cd but shorter duration with suppression utility which is amazing. They also sort of have K.O if they take Corrupted Barrier which is a H2F

 

Ty very much, I play sorc too. If you don't take emersion or electric bindings you are risking to be globalled faster and easier. Also sorcs can't dps while in force barrier, so to get heals they must first wait 8 seconds, while mercs doing it instantly.

Edited January 12, 2016 by DerSchneider

[Quarast]

Ty very much, I play sorc too. If you don't take emersion or electric bindings you are risking to be globalled faster and easier. Also sorcs can't dps while in force barrier, so to get heals they must first wait 8 seconds, while mercs doing it instantly.

 

You can take emersion and the suppression utility. Electric bindings isn't as amazing for mitigating damage. Further more, corrupted barrier works on static bubble, so you can have healing while los and attacking, much better than how mercs have to cast or waste tracer stacks on heals

[aristrokratie]

Powertech burst still dumpsters Merc burst. Anyway you've got to be talking about regs which I have zero respect for since 2.4 made 8v8 irrelevant and in way should represent balance. Since Merc in solo ranked is laughable and in teams it's finally becoming decent.

 

Merc would be perfectly fine with those changes with out losing anything. If you have problems with mercs then Idunno what to tell you other than get good.

No sorry but I don't care for ranged pts with enet and lolslow.

 

Merc offense is super strong. Tunneling them is the only way to stop them from utterly destroying your team.

Their burst is extremely strong (22k hsm 16k railshot 24k channel if it crits) and on top of that they have net.

 

If they were less vulnerable to tunneling their offense would need to be tuned down. Preferrably enet. If you want to keep it fine, then nerf your surge to 10%.

 

Otherwise I don't feel sorry for you.

Edited January 12, 2016 by aristrokratie

[Lhancelot]

No sorry but I don't care for ranged pts with enet and lolslow.

 

Merc offense is super strong. Tunneling them is the only way to stop them from utterly destroying your team.

Their burst is extremely strong (22k hsm 16k railshot 24k channel if it crits) and on top of that they have net.

 

If they were less vulnerable to tunneling their offense would need to be tuned down. Preferrably enet. If you want to keep it fine, then nerf your surge to 10%.

 

Otherwise I don't feel sorry for you.

 

Well, it's a burst class so that being said merc arsenal should hit hard and be "bursty". To say it's fair that they be totally gimped in 4v4s and/or ranked though due to them performing well in regs is not reasonable imo.

 

It's not about feeling sorry for people or classes, it's about broadening the viability in ranked pvp. Supposedly the premier venue for PVPers, and yet still so many classes underperform in it.

 

Then, people actually wonder aloud, "why do ranked geared players queue for regs!!!!" Well, because they can't perform worth a **** in ranked, that's why... ffs it doesn't take a genius to understand this.

[aristrokratie]

Well, it's a burst class so that being said merc arsenal should hit hard and be "bursty". To say it's fair that they be totally gimped in 4v4s and/or ranked though due to them performing well in regs is not reasonable imo.

 

It's not about feeling sorry for people or classes, it's about broadening the viability in ranked pvp. Supposedly the premier venue for PVPers, and yet still so many classes underperform in it.

 

Then, people actually wonder aloud, "why do ranked geared players queue for regs!!!!" Well, because they can't perform worth a **** in ranked, that's why... ffs it doesn't take a genius to understand this.

 

Enet+ burst + survivability + utility= fotm

 

You cannot have all.

If they were buffed in survivability without anything nerfed they'd become meta.

Mercs need to be viable, not fotm and even less meta.

 

 

If sorchealers were ever to get nerfed mercs then would be a serious problem.

Edited January 12, 2016 by aristrokratie

[Lhancelot]

Enet+ burst + survivability + utility= fotm

 

You cannot have all.

If they were buffed in survivability without anything nerfed they'd become meta.

 

They could buff them slightly in survivability, in a way that didn't put them over-the-top. As they stand now, you are not going to see ANY arsenal mercs enjoying solo ranked, and a very small, nearly zero number in group ranked I am guessing.

 

There's simply better burst classes with better survivability that will be better for competitive PVP (ranked). Why hinder a team with a merc that has awful survivability when you can get other burst/dps classes that do not have this severe weakness?

 

I understand you have this problem with E-net, but you realize that's one ability, and it's very situational too? It's not a one-click IWIN button. It affects one other player, and it's even counterable now by many classes.

 

What utility does a merc bring to a team, besides E-net and damage? You say "Enet + burst + survivability + utility". What utility?

 

Try a merc out, if you think it's where it needs to be in 4v4s versus good players then come back to the forums and say they are fine the way they are. There's no way you will.

[aristrokratie]

They could buff them slightly in survivability, in a way that didn't put them over-the-top. As they stand now, you are not going to see ANY arsenal mercs enjoying solo ranked, and a very small, nearly zero number in group ranked I am guessing.

 

There's simply better burst classes with better survivability that will be better for competitive PVP (ranked). Why hinder a team with a merc that has awful survivability when you can get other burst/dps classes that do not have this severe weakness?

 

I understand you have this problem with E-net, but you realize that's one ability, and it's very situational too? It's not a one-click IWIN button. It affects one other player, and it's even counterable now by many classes.

 

What utility does a merc bring to a team, besides E-net and damage? You say "Enet + burst + survivability + utility". What utility?

 

Try a merc out, if you think it's where it needs to be in 4v4s versus good players then come back to the forums and say they are fine the way they are. There's no way you will.

My point is that their offense is too strong to justify serious survivability buffs like anti focus tools.

As it stands right now only really small buffs to their survivability could be done because their damage is so strong and ofc enet.

 

I they recieve great survivability buffs they have to go along with nerfs to their offense.

[aristrokratie]

70% movement slow is cool for kiting but really strong against any focus target that has to stay in range of your melee mate without stunning it because maybe it's whitebarred. Don't underestimate the knockback and instant cc. Being able to unstealth people is situational but can be helpful, too.

[Master-Nala]

Increase the per tick healing of KO/AR by a factor of 5, remove the health limitation (ie allow heal to full).

 

So you'll be getting ticks of 2.5-3K and at the end of the effect will be at 100%. Effectively this would be better and more consistent than Enraged Defense with the downside of double the cooldown. And because it can be pre-applied it will take effect immediately upon hitting 39%.

 

IMO, that's all Mercs need. Anti-focus. The damage is excellent, the utility is excellent. They just need some leeway to avoid getting killed in 2-3 GCDs.

[DerSchneider]

Increase the per tick healing of KO/AR by a factor of 5, remove the health limitation (ie allow heal to full).

 

So you'll be getting ticks of 2.5-3K and at the end of the effect will be at 100%. Effectively this would be better and more consistent than Enraged Defense with the downside of double the cooldown. And because it can be pre-applied it will take effect immediately upon hitting 39%.

 

IMO, that's all Mercs need. Anti-focus. The damage is excellent, the utility is excellent. They just need some leeway to avoid getting killed in 2-3 GCDs.

 

Yes pls let's make ranged class better survivability than heavy melee.

[Lhancelot]

Yes pls let's make ranged class better survivability than heavy melee.

 

You mention "heavy" as if armor types in PVP actually matter. Sorcs wear "light" armor, yet they withstand tons of focus fire and can manage focus better than most heavy or medium wearing classes.

 

He never said give them "better survivability" than anyone else, anyway. he said improve their survivability, which does need improved particularly in arenas.

[Lhancelot]

IMO, that's all Mercs need. Anti-focus. The damage is excellent, the utility is excellent. They just need some leeway to avoid getting killed in 2-3 GCDs.

 

This is true, and the most annoying thing on my merc right now. Even in regs now, I get focused really fast I guess premades of other teams don't like being snared for 70% and bursted dead.

 

Point is, now when I fight decent players, they target me and 100% nullify me.

 

It's very frustrating being on a class that can be 100% shut down in damage, 100% of the time by marauders, sins, and basically any melee or stealth with absolutely no way to mitigate the focus by more than 1 enemy.

 

In regs and when left alone, yeah, my merc is great fun. The issue is when facing people with half a brain, the class is too easily shut down with focus fire due to it's inability to survive for any length of time when focused.

 

Enet is useless once you have 2 or more people on you, and the knockback is a joke let's be honest here. The 70% snare is awesome when facing one person, when you get ganged up on, it's useless. And, propulsion? Another joke. Propulsion doesn't even help aganst one player, let alone a group that jumps on you.

 

All of the mercs awesome utilities basically work great versus 1 player. In a group environment that's when the class has soms severe limitations, and all it takes is 2-3 of the other team to focus the merc and within a very short time that merc is dead.

[guardianzor]

they should remove that 30% of critical bonus on heatseeker and blazing bolts.. cause they have done it on all classes

[Lhancelot]

they should remove that 30% of critical bonus on heatseeker and blazing bolts.. cause they have done it on all classes

 

If they removed that, what would be the reason to even play this class then? The only thing they got is burst! What good would a gimpy burst class be?

 

Because they got enet, and a snare attached to their channeled attack?

 

I would dump this class so fast if they gimped their damage lol. Enet and a snare on one attack isn't worth dealing with zero survivability when focused.

 

In fact you can take enet, I would trade enet any day for some form of anti-focus ability on my merc. All day, everyday I would take that trade.