My PyroTech revamp

[Cuiwe]

So, I wanted to post what I'd change about this discipline for a LONG time. It has SO much potential and it is SO god dam fun(even if we are looking at it like ideas instead of flamethrowers), but it has ATROCIOUS leveling curve! It's on par with Infiltration leveling curve lol! So, here is what I'd do(there are couple of changes there in that I don't think would impact the endgame that much):

 

Level 10: Immolate ( it's such an iconic move, why hold it back? )

Level 12: Flame Barrage ( your Immolate makes your next TWO Flame Bursts / Sweeps free )

Level 16: Volatile Igniter ( same + include Immolate in there )

Level 20: SuperHeated Gas ( revert back to +33% come on! Also, now it allows you to stack CGC to up to 3 times / enemy! )

Level 24: Charged Gauntlets ( Rocket / Fire punch ... )

Level 26: Fire Punch

Level 28: Heated Tools ( -3s CD FT , +25% Flame Burst dmg - FP root // FP lost its root component so FB could get +25% dmg )

Level 32: SuperHeated Flamethrower

Level 36: Heat Flow Recycler

Level 40: Perilous Flames

Level 42: Inc. Missile

Level 44: Rain of Fire

Level 48: Firebug

Level 52: Automated Defenses

Level 56: Flame Suit

Level 58: Scorch

Level 60: Burnout

Level 64: Insulated Augs ( flat +5% dmg red )

 

I feel like this leveling curve would be way more fun and way more true to what PyroTech should be(Flamethrower maniac). Nothing that much has changed and with these subtle changes, PyroTech could even catch up the AP. I feel like this is a right way to do Pyro.

 

What do you say?

Edited October 25, 2015 by Cuiwe

[KBSIP]

I think leveling curve is the least relevant thing to how the class should be designed at the moment when we're talking about it having issues at cap.

[Cuiwe]

I think leveling curve is the least relevant thing to how the class should be designed at the moment when we're talking about it having issues at cap.

 

Hey, I gave it some very well deserved QoL buffs! Like Flame Burst doing actual damage, 3 stacks of CGC etc. Would it need more? Prolly. But I feel it is best if they started slowly like this.

[KainrycKarr]

I think leveling curve is the least relevant thing to how the class should be designed at the moment when we're talking about it having issues at cap.

 

Kolto DR and CD reduction is amazing when paired with the second stun break on kolto + jet speed.

 

Pyro could use a small tweak, but it is otherwise fine.

 

Evidence of Pyro's current potential

 

http://i.imgur.com/0AkUh2U.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/WuQR3mp.jpg

[Cuiwe]

Kolto DR and CD reduction is amazing when paired with the second stun break on kolto + jet speed.

 

Pyro could use a small tweak, but it is otherwise fine.

 

Evidence of Pyro's current potential

 

http://i.imgur.com/0AkUh2U.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/WuQR3mp.jpg

 

I know all about its potential. But UNLESS NEW PEOPLE WITNESS it...it's all for naught!

 

Because currently most new players take AP and tbh, I can't blame them for doing it. That's why I reshuffled the passives. Maybe the CGC thing is too much of a buff, but this is how I would have done it if I were a dev. TALK, TALK, TALK-with representatives of players, with other people working on it etc. You can bet I wouldn't be as stupid as current balancers are(nerf pyro, nerf sentinel lmao!)

[Saprezzan]

Kolto DR and CD reduction is amazing when paired with the second stun break on kolto + jet speed.

 

Pyro could use a small tweak, but it is otherwise fine.

 

Evidence of Pyro's current potential

 

http://i.imgur.com/0AkUh2U.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/WuQR3mp.jpg

 

That's a bit disingenuous though, no one died on your team, skewing the numbers in Pyro's favour (all those dots running all the time). And looking at that screenshot - I'm assuming that's AP Powertech directly below you? If so, he has 7 more kills.

 

And you didn't mention anything about Ranked.

[KBSIP]

his numbers in both those linked matches are also insanely low for an AOE & DoT spec, you can push upper 2k/3k dps easily in burst disciplines while also having more kills than a DoT or Cleave class doing equivalent damage in warzones.

[KainrycKarr]

That's a bit disingenuous though, no one died on your team, skewing the numbers in Pyro's favour (all those dots running all the time). And looking at that screenshot - I'm assuming that's AP Powertech directly below you? If so, he has 7 more kills.

 

And you didn't mention anything about Ranked.

 

I provided two different warzones, and can provide more if you'd like. I've been topping the damage and performing like that all day. And no duh it's about dots - Pyro is dot and pressure spec NOT a burst spec. And fine that AP had 7 more kills, he might have been in more fights than me. That's kind of a dumb thing to nitpick.

 

I just showed a screenshot of my Pyro hitting for a 21k as a non-burst, pressure/dotspread spec. I dunno what else you want.

 

As far as ranked, it's even more viable as you can be assured you'll be in constant combat and will have Kolto available CONSTANTLY, which means you have a second stun break available CONSTANTLY, which is actually even better than the AP which could have the second stun break, but not as frequently as Pyro.

 

Use the tools available to you and look outside the box. Pyro is much stronger than folks think.

[KainrycKarr]

his numbers in both those linked matches are also insanely low for an AOE & DoT spec, you can push upper 2k/3k dps easily in burst disciplines while also having more kills than a DoT or Cleave class doing equivalent damage in warzones.

 

And yet, I outperformed the AP's in those matches. So imagine what an "insanely high" AoE/DoT player could do with it.

 

And yes you can push those numbers you mentioned - if the match lasts that long. PvP isn't about parsing, it's about killing the target, and in every single match as a Pyro I'm at the top with killing blows and kills. I'll be sure to include those in future screenshots, if you'd like.

 

I mean high numbers and low numbers is all relative to the competition, and in both of those WZ's I'm at or near the top of damage, kills, and killing blows (though granted I didn't mouse over that, didn't think it'd be necessary.)

 

And my 21k should be evidence aplenty that the burst, while not on the level of AP, Marksman, Arsenal, or Fury, is respectable enough to be perfectly viable on it's own, regardless of AoE and Dots.

 

I have explained in this and another thread very precisely how to maximize the potential of Pyro and it's uptime, and provided evidence of it in practice. All you have done is nitpick and naysay me.

Edited October 25, 2015 by KainrycKarr

[Saprezzan]

I provided two different warzones, and can provide more if you'd like. I've been topping the damage and performing like that all day. And no duh it's about dots - Pyro is dot and pressure spec NOT a burst spec. And fine that AP had 7 more kills, he might have been in more fights than me. That's kind of a dumb thing to nitpick.

 

I just showed a screenshot of my Pyro hitting for a 21k as a non-burst, pressure/dotspread spec. I dunno what else you want.

 

As far as ranked, it's even more viable as you can be assured you'll be in constant combat and will have Kolto available CONSTANTLY, which means you have a second stun break available CONSTANTLY, which is actually even better than the AP which could have the second stun break, but not as frequently as Pyro.

 

Use the tools available to you and look outside the box. Pyro is much stronger than folks think.

 

Relax, no need to get defensive. Just wanted to point out that it's only two screenshots and the conditions in one of these games (can't see the amount of deaths on the other one) are rather skewed in Pyro's favour, because your team was clearly dominating. Hence my skepticism.

 

As for ranked - I don't claim to have large amounts of Ranked experience (back in the game after a long break), but in my experience you will often get targeted first and quickly globaled before the cooldown reduction can take effect.

 

That said, in one of the other topics you've agreed that Pyro needs some adjustments, particularly to the Flamethrower, which is supposed to be their signature move, here are some of your proposals:

 

HOWEVER, I do think Proto flamer needs to be made a little more worth it to use. As it stands, the cleave is very weak and not very rewarding. Even if you were "tanky" while using it, it's not like it really does enough damage to make it worth the effort. Instead, boost the damage on it up a bit so that when you can pull it off, its destructive.

 

Additionally, while I do feel the fixed Kolto functions just fine now as a primary DCD, Pyro could still use another lesser DCD, something akin to AP's 30% defense chance, or possibly just an extra 5% DR tacked into a discipline box somewhere?

 

I definitely agree that the Superheated Flamethrower is super disappointing, particularly if you compare it with Shieldtech's Firestorm.

 

It's hard to land reliably and it requires a setup (not a long one, granted - but still, there will be times you'd wish it was on demand). And yet it deals rather pitiful damage.

 

Some possible solutions:

 

- Make the channel 2 seconds,

- Allow it to stack 3 or even 4 (probably too much) times

- Make it usable on the move

- Each stack increases damage by 30% instead of 20%

 

In short, make it actually worth the hassle.

 

As for the additional defenses, I think attaching something else to Flame Suit would be best. I like your proposed solution of flat 5% DR (maybe 3 or 4% instead?). Just attach it to Flame Suit.

[KainrycKarr]

Relax, no need to get defensive. Just wanted to point out that it's only two screenshots and the conditions in one of these games (can't see the amount of deaths on the other one) are rather skewed in Pyro's favour, because your team was clearly dominating. Hence my skepticism.

 

As for ranked - I don't claim to have large amounts of Ranked experience (back in the game after a long break), but in my experience you will often get targeted first and quickly globaled before the cooldown reduction can take effect.

 

That said, in one of the other topics you've agreed that Pyro needs some adjustments, particularly to the Flamethrower, which is supposed to be their signature move, here are some of your proposals:

 

 

 

I definitely agree that the Superheated Flamethrower is super disappointing, particularly if you compare it with Shieldtech's Firestorm.

 

It's hard to land reliably and it requires a setup (not a long one, granted - but still, there will be times you'd wish it was on demand). And yet it deals rather pitiful damage.

 

Some possible solutions:

 

- Make the channel 2 seconds,

- Allow it to stack 3 or even 4 (probably too much) times

- Make it usable on the move

- Each stack increases damage by 30% instead of 20%

 

In short, make it actually worth the hassle.

 

As for the additional defenses, I think attaching something else to Flame Suit would be best. I like your proposed solution of flat 5% DR (maybe 3 or 4% instead?). Just attach it to Flame Suit.

 

Well in regards to the ranked stun/focused bit, to be honest you're going to be vulnerable to it whether you're in AP spec or Pyro spec. It's really up to your teammates and your own instincts to survive in that scenario. But in my opinion, the added benefit of an effective 30 second stun break in addition to the standard one, with the benefit of Pyro's 30% kolto DR which, makes the second stun break and DR overall equal to or better than AP's 30% DR when stunned, in that scenario.

 

If you're being globaled in ranked, it's because your team has no concept of peels or support (extremely common in solo ranked no matter what class you play - someone has to die first, and Powertech's are often picked due to being a major threat in either spec and being relatively easy to burn down.) or because you aren't reacting fast enough. This is just my experience, which primarily covers Powertech, Sniper, and Mercenary as those are the only ones I've played in ranked.

Edited October 26, 2015 by KainrycKarr