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SWTOR Duelling Tournament - Heats/Round 2B: Team Tunewalker vs Team Randomname

Selenial

By Selenial
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tunewalker

tunewalker

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Lmfao. Guess who also has to be in tune with the force and highly skilled and whom we rarely see in action? perhaps members of the Dark Council or Jedi Masters during the SWTOR-era?

 

[/color]

 

I kind of wanted to go back and point out how much this actually works AGAINST Jadus and the Wrath.

 

 

If you look at feats and Accolades and put them side by side of Streen and Jadus, I find no reason to think they arent the same caliber opponent.

 

 

One is a Dark Council Member, the Other is a Jedi Council Member and was temporarily Grand Master of the Order, and as I proved already in Luke's Order that means something power wise. So Based on position there is no reason to think one is any higher then the other.

 

Then we look at feats, Jadus has 1 good out of combat possibly TK feat which shows magnitude. Streen has several AE feats that show magnitude. Should be noted at AE did not exist when his first feat was created and was believed to be TK.

 

Jadus has a good Telepathic feat, Streen has good Telepathic feat.

 

Jadus has a minor Teleport feat of which we dont see in combat, Streen has some minor TK feats none of which show him struggling to do them.

 

When you put them side by side they have similar levels of accolades and position in their respective societies, so really there is no reason to believe Jadus is any better then Streen so no reason to think he can any where near handle Leia.

 

 

The same can be said for the Wrath... so he beat people that have accolades similar to streen, but never were of streen's position, and most he did with help. What should make us think he can handle K'kruhk when K'kruhk's force abilities match those of the Wraths opponent (pulling down the Corvette sized ship) while having skill on par with Shaak ti and Mundi (his battles with Greivous and Quinlon Vos put him on this level before his prime) and having much greater physical strength and endurance then any opponent the Wrath has ever fought.

Edited by tunewalker
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Selenial

Selenial

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Jadus getting underrated pretty badly.

 

/5char

 

I just pretend posts like that don't happen when I'm trying to decide a winner. Holding an entire ship and all the electrical son board together at the same time is a "good TK feat" that can basically be written off? And Streen has TP on Jadus level? I just... No.

Edited by Selenial
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Beniboybling

Beniboybling

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I kind of wanted to go back and point out how much this actually works AGAINST Jadus and the Wrath.

 

 

If you look at feats and Accolades and put them side by side of Streen and Jadus, I find no reason to think they arent the same caliber opponent.

 

 

One is a Dark Council Member, the Other is a Jedi Council Member and was temporarily Grand Master of the Order, and as I proved already in Luke's Order that means something power wise. So Based on position there is no reason to think one is any higher then the other.

 

Then we look at feats, Jadus has 1 good out of combat possibly TK feat which shows magnitude. Streen has several AE feats that show magnitude. Should be noted at AE did not exist when his first feat was created and was believed to be TK.

 

Jadus has a good Telepathic feat, Streen has good Telepathic feat.

 

Jadus has a minor Teleport feat of which we dont see in combat, Streen has some minor TK feats none of which show him struggling to do them.

 

When you put them side by side they have similar levels of accolades and position in their respective societies, so really there is no reason to believe Jadus is any better then Streen so no reason to think he can any where near handle Leia.

 

 

The same can be said for the Wrath... so he beat people that have accolades similar to streen, but never were of streen's position, and most he did with help. What should make us think he can handle K'kruhk when K'kruhk's force abilities match those of the Wraths opponent (pulling down the Corvette sized ship) while having skill on par with Shaak ti and Mundi (his battles with Greivous and Quinlon Vos put him on this level before his prime) and having much greater physical strength and endurance then any opponent the Wrath has ever fought.

I think I've within the bounds of fact checking/correcting when I say this is a gross and inaccurate generalistion.

 

1. Your assuming parity between the Dark Council and the Jedi Council of two different eras where none exists.

 

2. Your ignoring the fact that there are levels of magnitude.

 

 

  • Holding a capital ship together > making a weather storm.
     
     
  • Dominating the minds of 1,000 people > any TP Streen has ever done.
     
     
  • Minor TK feats do not compare to teleportation, nor can it be described as "minor" in anyway.

 

The only valid thing you've written is that yes, any character can be made to look equal to another if you lowball and generalise in this manner, but don't expect anyone to be convinced by it. I'd suggest another line of argument.

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Aurbere

Aurbere

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/5char

 

I just pretend posts like that don't happen when I'm trying to decide a winner. Holding an entire ship and all the electrical son board together at the same time is a "good TK feat" that can basically be written off? And Streen has TP on Jadus level? I just... No.

 

I make a respect thread. Dunno how this happens.

 

And has it spread to Wrath, too? :confused:

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Selenial

Selenial

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I make a respect thread. Dunno how this happens.

 

And has it spread to Wrath, too? :confused:

 

The Wrath's always been bad. In fact I'm about to make a post about how slaughtered him and Nox would be by Vader and Dooku if you care to watch :jawa_evil:

 

My threads seem to elicit incredible new heights of character **** though, I mean just ask Beni where he ranks Shaak Ti :D

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Aurbere

Aurbere

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The Wrath's always been bad. In fact I'm about to make a post about how slaughtered him and Nox would be by Vader and Dooku if you care to watch :jawa_evil:

 

My threads seem to elicit incredible new heights of character **** though, I mean just ask Beni where he ranks Shaak Ti :D

 

Well yeah, Wrath gets beat by those two, lol.

 

I need to inspire the Jadus hype, tho. Shaak Ti's got basis in being hyped, but we need more Jadus hype. I'm tempted to trade Malgus and HK for Jadus, just to perpetuate the Jadus hype.

 

No jokes about Malgus, Sel. :jawa_mad:

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Selenial

Selenial

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Well yeah, Wrath gets beat by those two, lol.

 

I need to inspire the Jadus hype, tho. Shaak Ti's got basis in being hyped, but we need more Jadus hype. I'm tempted to trade Malgus and HK for Jadus, just to perpetuate the Jadus hype.

 

No jokes about Malgus, Sel. :jawa_mad:

 

Malgus is ****, trading him for Nomi Sunrider would be an improvement. :rak_01:

 

Shaak Ti's got basis in being hyped

 

http://i.imgur.com/fAANVQ5.gif

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tunewalker

tunewalker

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I think I've within the bounds of fact checking/correcting when I say this is a gross and inaccurate generalistion.

 

1. Your assuming parity between the Dark Council and the Jedi Council of two different eras where none exists.

 

2. Your ignoring the fact that there are levels of magnitude.

 

 

  • Holding a capital ship together > making a weather storm.
     
     
  • Dominating the minds of 1,000 people > any TP Streen has ever done.
     
     
  • Minor TK feats do not compare to teleportation, nor can it be described as "minor" in anyway.

 

The only valid thing you've written is that yes, any character can be made to look equal to another if you lowball and generalise in this manner, but don't expect anyone to be convinced by it. I'd suggest another line of argument.

 

 

Try reading the minds of MILLIONS... untrained. for TP feat.

 

 

The TK feat was out of combat, and can not relate to in combat capabilities and as I said before... according to this

 

Streen!

 

The old Bespin hermit stood on the outskirts of the storm with his brown Jedi robe flapping around him. His wild gray hair writhed around his head as if charged with static. His lips mumbled something incomprehensible, and his eyes remained closed as if he were having a nightmare. Leia knew that even powerful Jedi could not manipulate large-scale phenomena like the weather; but they could move objects, and she realized that was what Streen did now. Not changing the weather, but simply moving the air, drawing it in from all directions, creating a self-contained but destructive tornado that struck toward Luke's body.

 

"No!" she shouted into the starving wind.

 

"Streen!"

 

The cyclone struck Luke, buffeted his body, and lifted it into the air.

 

Leia ran toward her paralyzed brother, feet barely touching the ground as the powerful winds knocked her sideways. The storm wrenched her off balance, and she found herself thrown through the air, flying like an insect toward the stone walls. She spun around and reached out, calming herself enough to use her own abilities with the Force, to nudge her body away. Instead of being crushed against the stone blocks, she slid softly to the floor.

 

Luke's body continued rising, tugged upward by the hurricane. His Jedi robe wound around him as the winds spun him like a corpse launched out of a star-freighter air lock into the grave of space.

 

Streen didn't seem aware of what he was doing.

 

Leia staggered to her feet again and jumped. This time she rode the circling air currents, flying around the fringe of the cyclone toward her helpless brother. She reached out to grab the tail of his robe, felt her fingers clutch rough fabric, and then burn as the robe was snatched away from her. She fell back to the floor.

 

Luke had been drawn up into the tornado's mouth, rising toward the skylights.

 

"Luke!" she cried. "Please help me."

 

She had no idea if he could hear her, or if he could do anything.

 

Gathering strength in her leg muscles, she leaped into the air again. It might be possible to use her Jedi skills of levitation for a brief moment; Luke had done it several times, although she herself had never mastered the skill.

 

Now, though, it mattered more than it ever had before. As Leia sprang upward, the wind caught her. She rose high enough to grab Luke's body. She wrapped her arms around his waist, twisted her legs around his ankles, holding him, hoping her weight would drag him down.

 

But as they started to drop, the winds picked up in intensity, howling and roaring. Leia's skin went numb from the blinding wintry cold. They shot toward the roof of the grand audience chamber, toward the widest skylight, where jagged icicles hung like javelins.

 

Leia suddenly knew what Streen intended to do to them, whether consciously or unconsciously. They would be sucked out of the Great Temple, tossed high into the sky, and then allowed to crash thousands of feet to the spear-pointed branches of the jungle canopy.

 

The turbolift door opened. Kirana Ti charged out, followed by Tionne and Kam Solusar.

 

"Stop Streen!" Leia shouted.

 

Kirana Ti reacted instantly. She wore thin but supple red armor from the scaled hides of reptiles from Dathomir. She had been a warrior on her own world, fighting with untrained and unhoned skill in the Force, but she had also fought in physical combat as well.

 

Kirana Ti launched herself forward on long, muscular legs, ducking her head as she charged into the cyclonic wind that surrounded Streen. The old hermit stood entranced, spinning slowly around with his arms dangling at his sides and his fingertips spread apart, as if trying to catch something.

 

Kirana Ti staggered as she hit the wind, but she wrenched her head aside, spread her legs, and dug the toes of her bare feet against the stone floor for traction. She shoved forward into the wind and finally shattered through into the dead zone of the storm. She tackled Streen to the flagstoned floor and locked his arms behind his back. Streen cried out, then blinked his eyes open. He looked wildly around in confusion. Instantly the wind stopped blowing. The air fell still. High up at the ceiling of the grand audience chamber Leia and Luke plunged toward the unforgiving flagstones below. Luke fell like a doll, and Leia tried to remember how to use her levitation skills, but her mind went blank with panic.

 

Tionne and Kam Solusar raced forward, stretching out their arms, using what they had been taught. Less than a meter above the crushing stones, Leia found herself slowed, pausing in the air beside Luke's body. They drifted gently to the floor. Leia cradled Luke against her, but her brother did not respond.

 

Source: Champions of the Force

 

It isnt Alter Enviroment but TK. I would think this level of Tk would be on par with Jadus's wouldnt you?

 

 

Also Dark council and Jedi council "arent comparable" from cross era..... If you really want to talk about cross era I have 5 words for you.... "Lost tribe of the Sith" they were using the same training regiment and the same measuring stick for power for 3,000 years, and when one of their "knight level" enemies ran accrossed Ben Skywalker, noted as being Padawaan level skill, he took one out in 3 seconds.

 

I ask is this truly a "low ball" of Jadus.... are you guys really taking just being on the Dark Council as some big accomplishment, and then ignoring any accomplishment it takes to be on the Jedi Council in an Era where doing so power is specifically stated as a reason why. Remember unlike the Prequel era where Quigon was denied a seat for his radical beliefs, Kyp wasnt If they were on the council they were among the top of the Jedi.

 

Magnitude to Magnitude the "alter enviroment" which could be TK matches the "TK" which could be something else. Like I said before until AE became a thing that feat was just TK as well, considering I dont see any mention of HOW he accomplished it, and we see no in combat feats to match it, the means by which he is doing so are highly up for scrutiny.

 

TP controling a few thousand vs Hearing millions if he is close enough, with out training.

 

 

Teleport http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Teleport a few feet is Minor, true power in this ability is shown through the ability to teleport star systems away.

 

 

I was told by Selenial herself that when facing an opponent with questionable feats, to a huge lack of feats to focus on that, both the Wrath and Jadus have these in spades. The way they won their fights are hugely up for question. Almost all of Jadus's feats are out of combat, and speaks nothing of his abilities in combat. All of the accolades for him come from Non-force Wielders who are highly questionable on their capabilities to judge to begin with.

 

While streen has used some of his abilities in combat, and his accolades come from the Most powerful Jedi of all time so both much more credible. Also its not like people that are massively more powerful then Jadus and the Wrath dont exist during their time... just look at Revan where it took a team of skilled and powerful opponents to bring him down. I see no reason to think that a SKYWALKER the Daughter of the Chosen one herself could not come close to Revan. Yes everyone load your gun because I dare to say the most powerful people of the NJO are even close to on par with the most powerful of TOR or the Prequel era or the Legacy Era... load your gun because i dare to say the most powerful of an era can be compared to the most powerful of another era. Load your gun because I dare to say Revan proves that Satele, The Wrath, Jadus, and Marr are all just 1 rung under "best of their era" putting them all on levels of Shaak TI and K'kruhk and Mundi from the Prequel era and not Windu, Anakin, and Obi-wan. Load your gun because I call one era equal to another. Load your gun because I am willing to debate that according to the accolades Streen is this "1 rung under" there is nothing saying K'kruhk is any better then streen, and streen is one of their best, just like Shaak Ti and Mundi were for the Pre-quel era even if we dont have all that many feats for him.

 

If you want to take featless characters fine, but dont sit there and assume 1 power is automatically greater then another because none of us use the Force, and in this case you cant even use the "alter is better then BLANK" arguement because they are both alter. We havent seen Streens TK top out he PREFERS weather control so he doesnt need it, and when it was first used... it WAS TK and I see no Difference between TK creating a storm (Not AE) and TK holding a ship together... especially when the second isnt confirmed to be TK to begin with as far as I know.

 

 

 

 

edit:

“The shvash gas incinerated only part of the ship. My power held together the remains.”

—Darth Jadus (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

 

Held... past tense... for 1 and "only part of the ship" means that the reports (which were made by Non-force sensitives) were inaccurate on their calculations. This is probably do to potential Illusion capabilities from Jadus, similar to Corran Horn or Leia's own feats in this regard. He didnt hold a whole ship together and kept EVERYTHING working, he held part of it together, and it sounds like it was only needed to be done briefly, possibly just to stop a chain reaction from pulling the ship apart. Since it says "part was incinerated" when you hold things like this up to scrutiny its no where near as impressive as some people try to make them sound.

Edited by tunewalker
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tunewalker

tunewalker

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I also wanted to say something I read earlier when game mechanics were brought up... specifically about how "cypher nine never really fought Jadus it was just there for the player to have a First level boss"

 

 

This people is the EXACT SAME REASON I said the Ops battles and the FP battles and all the planet quests are not canon to the PC, THIS is why I said the mechanics of those fights are not usable for feats for the characters that show up in them. They exist solely so the player can have a fun and interesting boss fight, because an MMO has to have fun and interesting boss fights, especially Ops (raid) and FP (Dungeon) bosses. Dont want to use the fact that Jadus was tricked and trapped and fought evenly with Cypher Nine a Non-force sensitve for the reason given above... I like consistency so guess what that means...... same reason applies to EVERY boss fight in the game. They exist so that the player has a boss fight. Now if you dont take that as a reason, again consistency that means the creative Cypher nine was able to defeat Jadus with out any force powers what so ever through unorthodox tactics and creativity, there is no reason to think some one as powerful as Leia could not do the same ESPECIALLY with a high level force user like Streen OCCASSIONALLY helping her.

Edited by tunewalker
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Beniboybling

Beniboybling

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Let's be FAIR... Greivous only ever fought her when she was mentally and Physically broken before the engagement he never fought a fresh and ready Shaak Ti.
Excuses. :p

 

Nah I'm kidding :maybe: However Selenial exaggerates my respect for Shaak Ti...

Edited by Beniboybling
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Selenial

Selenial

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Excuses. :p

 

Nah I'm kidding :maybe: However Selenial exaggerates my respect for Shaak Ti...

 

So what you're saying is Ahsoka > Galen Marek.

 

Therefore Ahsoka > Vader.

 

Rebels Ahsoka is more powerful, so Rebels Ahsoka > Palpatine....

 

I mean I'm down for that. :jawa_evil:

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Selenial

Selenial

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I also wanted to say something I read earlier when game mechanics were brought up... specifically about how "cypher nine never really fought Jadus it was just there for the player to have a First level boss"

 

 

This people is the EXACT SAME REASON I said the Ops battles and the FP battles and all the planet quests are not canon to the PC, THIS is why I said the mechanics of those fights are not usable for feats for the characters that show up in them. They exist solely so the player can have a fun and interesting boss fight, because an MMO has to have fun and interesting boss fights, especially Ops (raid) and FP (Dungeon) bosses. Dont want to use the fact that Jadus was tricked and trapped and fought evenly with Cypher Nine a Non-force sensitve for the reason given above... I like consistency so guess what that means...... same reason applies to EVERY boss fight in the game. They exist so that the player has a boss fight. Now if you dont take that as a reason, again consistency that means the creative Cypher nine was able to defeat Jadus with out any force powers what so ever.

 

*sigh*

 

Cipher beat Jadus because he was telekinetically holding a ship together and was barely even paying attention to her.

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