tunewalker Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Also again we are focusing on Greivous, but again I note... what Saber skills does Jadus have? leia is credited with being incredibly skilled and I ahve already shown her incredible speed. I have shown HER unorthodox tactics, and Jadus has lost to tactics such as these with Cipher 9. His extra Force power isnt going to be much of a difference because, as I said before, there is nothing here to throw at her that she cant defend against, and the other powers he has such as mental assaults, or pushes and waves Leia has shown defending against. With out any Saber skills that I can see, this battle may actually be shorter then Greivous's as she cuts him down with how fast she is. Most of his accolades come from Non-force Sensitives as I have said in the past have the least amount of credibility as they lack any kind of understanding of the force beyond what they can see. He may have 1 good force feat but that does not translate into being good all around. Ya he may be a Dark Council Member, but that doesnt automatically make him capable of taking some one of high caliber such as Leia. There is just such a large lack of information on the character, I find it difficult to see any of his combat capabilties, and the few feats he has are against non-force sensitves with mildly more ingenuity then Leia, completely offset by her force augmented speed, strength and abilities. Edited July 14, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 According to whom? I fail to see how this is an argument: See number 2 in my last post. On more than one occasion, you have brought up situations, battles, and such for Grievous that Dom'Rahn previously has NOT... The extent of spectators in part 1 is just that, spectating, and occasionally giving small corrections. Yet here, you are attempting to debate Grievous when that is NOT your place to do it. In the rules themselves they specifically state in that last post of mine inside the quote, that this is not just a debate, but a 1 vs 1 debate. Heck, considering only points brought up are considered... You could have Sidious *if he wasn't banned* but if you put forth 0 arguments for him, he would *by my understanding* be as tough as Greedo. Part of the rules that are displayed in stage 2 make this perfectly clear. I am not saying stop giving corrections, I am saying stop forming them like an argument or bringing up points that it is up to Dom'Rahn to bring up. It doesn't matter if you see a way to OHKO Tune's entire team, unless it is Dom'Rahn that states it, it is essentially worth 0 points. (Unless I read the rules wrong? I mean... 1 vs 1 seems pretty self explanatory...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) See number 2 in my last post. On more than one occasion, you have brought up situations, battles, and such for Grievous that Dom'Rahn previously has NOT... The extent of spectators in part 1 is just that, spectating, and occasionally giving small corrections. Yet here, you are attempting to debate Grievous when that is NOT your place to do it. In the rules themselves they specifically state in that last post of mine inside the quote, that this is not just a debate, but a 1 vs 1 debate. Heck, considering only points brought up are considered... You could have Sidious *if he wasn't banned* but if you put forth 0 arguments for him, he would *by my understanding* be as tough as Greedo. Part of the rules that are displayed in stage 2 make this perfectly clear. I am not saying stop giving corrections, I am saying stop forming them like an argument or bringing up points that it is up to Dom'Rahn to bring up. It doesn't matter if you see a way to OHKO Tune's entire team, unless it is Dom'Rahn that states it, it is essentially worth 0 points. (Unless I read the rules wrong? I mean... 1 vs 1 seems pretty self explanatory...) Silenceo, its ok man... let it go please for the sake of clean and friendly debates, I personally am fine so far. I am sure CS felt like I did similar in your guys match, even though I intended not to. And I do believe from his point of view all he is doing is giving corrections, even if you dont see it that way. I have asked what every one thinks is false about the information I have given, given that I have links to the sources of those information usually immediately after the reasoning itself so CS may feel that is what he is doing either discrediting that source or giving why that reasoning with that source isnt exactly accurate..... though I am not seeing the proof of the false information being spread personally, others may... Edited July 14, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 It's hardly an argument. I corrected Tune's misconceptions about Grievous' accolades. I didn't form an argument saying Grievous would beat X and Y based on those accolades. So back to my previous post, it's not your call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 It's hardly an argument. I corrected Tune's misconceptions about Grievous' accolades. I didn't form an argument saying Grievous would beat X and Y based on those accolades. So back to my previous post, it's not your call. I will respect Tune's request to let it go, but I must make one thing clear first. It was not specifically that post per say, but more a culmination of your posts throughout the thread. With that said, back to mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 OK, let's calm down here. For right now, I suggest putting a halt to all of this until Sel comes in and makes a decision on the 'argument vs correction' front. She knows what she wants, so it's best to let her say what you guys can do before going any farther. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 OK, let's calm down here. For right now, I suggest putting a halt to all of this until Sel comes in and makes a decision on the 'argument vs correction' front. She knows what she wants, so it's best to let her say what you guys can do before going any farther. http://graphico.in/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Thanks-dad.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) OK, let's calm down here. For right now, I suggest putting a halt to all of this until Sel comes in and makes a decision on the 'argument vs correction' front. She knows what she wants, so it's best to let her say what you guys can do before going any farther. As the debater can I still give accolades, team work set ups and terrain usages to my team that I feel I have missed? Personally I am hating the fact that we are focusing so much on Accolades and "feats" and who has the bigger stick of cross era characters and would like to go back to team work stuff, but every time I post the team work stuff no one says anything on it...... I am worried its going to get lost in the shuffle of everything else... its like the most important points I am making and every one is like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_T6XMDg53g. Because even if my people arent as powerful as I am making them out to be (and I really believe they are) the most powerful group isnt always the winner its the best "team" and between streen's Telepathic and Terrain Altering abilities. The Force Meld, the known team work of my allies to begin with, the knowledge of the terrain and habits of enemies to follow their opponenets (Greivous see Dathomir, or Coruscant, Wrath see any... if Jadus doesnt follow to bad for him his team just got Isolated) and my teams habit of leading them where they need to be (Kyp against storm troopers or vong, Leia vs the Empire all her friken Life, K'kruhk against the one sith and while hiding from the empire, Streen vs the Leviathon and imperial troops.) it means they can get where they need to be. Leia's experience in cramped spaces, k'kruhk's power duel nature and Kyp's experience same as Leia's, and Streens ability to use his AE in doors supports them being able to fight Close quarters with their opponets till they get them outside with the freedom of movement taking greater advantage of the terrain, or if their experience in close spaces is better then their opponents keeping them their or seperating them as needed. The coordination which allows them to strike at opponents they arent fighting (See Kyp vs luke vs Cihgahl other examples exist in other medias, or now that I just thought of it, see Leia vs Kiliks) and the enemies teams lack of much feats when fighting as a team. Kyp and Streen vs the Leviathon showing another example where both used Alter enviroment in unison, or used force tk in unison. K'kruhk's experience with the Imperial knights group fighting tactics... so on and so forth.... Does any one care Edited July 14, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 http://graphico.in/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Thanks-dad.gif http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee477/julipoda/Charlie%20McDonnell%20Gifs/yourewelcome.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 As the debater can I still give accolades, team work set ups and terrain usages to my team that I feel I have missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Does any one care Its my favorite part. Also, why Aurbere? Favoritism I say! FAVORITE CHILD?! /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Its my favorite part. Also, why Aurbere? Favoritism I say! FAVORITE CHILD?! /sarcasm What can I say, the elders love me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Trying to think of terrain things I havent thought of...... and team work things I havent thought of.... so far I feel like a broken record on those things. Basically even if Greivous, or Wrath or Jadus are more powerful then their opponents they are not so much ahead that it can over come the team work deficiencies. Streen's abilities add to Kyp's abilities to handle Greivous, Streen's winds can make K'kruhk more comfortable while fighting and the wrath less comfortable, streens blade can go into the back of an unsuspecting Jadus while he is trying to deal with Leia's high skill and speed, Streen's blade never getting in the way of leia do to the meld... A rock thrown at one dodged and hit another (the lightsaber throw that saves satele) stuff like this..... The worse case scenario has Kyp helping Leia with Jadus while Streen plays keep away. We have seen Jedi do that against Greivous as well. Streen cant beat him, but he can delay him long enough for Kyp and Leia's speed to mean something against jadus. ... though I said all this already....... Ya I think I am done... i dont have much else to cover I have hit on the team work and hte terrain pretty heavily...... Edited July 14, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Its my favorite part. Also, why Aurbere? Favoritism I say! FAVORITE CHILD?! /sarcasm Well you did beat me in the Kaggath... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 The worse case scenario has Kyp helping Leia with Jarons while Streen plays keep away. http://i.imgur.com/tiYwvhH.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 http://i.imgur.com/tiYwvhH.gif Yes! I've been looking for that gif for ages! Saved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 http://i.imgur.com/tiYwvhH.gif I dont see what you are talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Yes! I've been looking for that gif for ages! Saved! https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3d/0c/2c/3d0c2ca0d269e5e4a60aaab563cf1801.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 So far I feel like a broken record on those things. I think that as a spectator I can 'point out' that I find the lack of detailed scenario's... Most disturbing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) I think that as a spectator I can 'point out' that I find the lack of detailed scenario's... Most disturbing... my team (except the blade doesnt miss) enemy team (meaning that one of the fire blasts in the previous that the people dodged... hit Ty lee) I thought I said this... do you mean you want me to give 1 of the 1,000 scenarios blow by blow rather then general examples......... Edited July 14, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 my team enemy team I thought I said this... do you mean you want me to give 1 of the 1,000 scenarios blow by blow rather then general examples......... Heavens no! I mean, for example, perhaps give a summery of multiple ways the fight could go. Or in a sense, show us how the points you have made thus far, may work in practice. There have been a few examples, sure, but few that fuse them together or go into much detail beyond power measurements or starting engagements. In essence, I guess I am a bit greedy in asking to see how you think, based on the current arguments, how it may play out. Nor do I mean the general *A will fight C and B will fight D*. Heck, mostly I want to see how you see it all coming together. :o Words, are not with me tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Heavens no! I mean, for example, perhaps give a summery of multiple ways the fight could go. Or in a sense, show us how the points you have made thus far, may work in practice. There have been a few examples, sure, but few that fuse them together or go into much detail beyond power measurements or starting engagements. In essence, I guess I am a bit greedy in asking to see how you think, based on the current arguments, how it may play out. Nor do I mean the general *A will fight C and B will fight D*. Heck, mostly I want to see how you see it all coming together. :o Words, are not with me tonight. Based on the arguements presented. Kyp will face off against Greivous, the fight will begin with Kyp testing Greivous with his force abilities and Greivous dodging some waves. He will close in quickly and begin his unorthodox attack pattern, while Kyp defends against it and tries to get an angle on him. Greivous will feel like he has the edge on him and will honestly appear to have the edge, but this is only because Kyp know's greivous's plan thanks to Streen reading Greivous's mind. Kyp will lead him on letting him get a false sense of security and pretend like he is falling into the trap, and when greivous goes to spring it Kyp will spring his own using his TK abilities to off balance Greivous at the last moment and using his fast precision strikes to disable him, its not greater skill, its not Kyp is neccisarily more inventive, or better tactically its Streens ability to read minds... constantly if they arent shielded by the force. meanwhile the battle between Wrath and K'kruhk will be raging, and same with Jadus and Leia, Jadus may be starting to overwhelm Leia with rocks, by continually sending them her way, but she dodges one and it strikes the Wrath on the back causing him to stumble forward when he was normally trying to back up causing serious harm to his armor, but the armor will allow him to shrug it off, K'kruhk will try to continue pushing the advantage. Jadus now having Leia on her back foot will try to finish, but that's when Streen will blast him with wind, or move his blade in perfect synchronization to defend Leia allowing her to recover giving Kyp enough time to let his plan against Greivous to come to fruition. If need be Kyp's stones being thrown at greivous or Kyps force waves thrown at greivous that he dodges can off balance either Jadus or wrath by hitting them in the back, or he could lead one of Greivous's spinning blades to get caught on Wrath's or Jadus's blade. Once 1 falls its all dominos. technically the one that falls could be any of them as all it really takes is one miss placed rock or one redirected saber blow off balancing 1 for a few seconds for Kyp, Leia or Streen to capitalize. Its that team work that will decide this. Is this what you are asking for??? Edited July 14, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Is this what you are asking for??? Essentially. To be truthful, I am still not 100% sure on who I think will win, but it is things such as this, as well as the pieces that show that it is possible, that make me think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Leia and Saba create a shield out of their blades, with enough synergy so as to never interfere with one another's blades: Leia and Saba activated their lightsabers and began to weave an impenetrable shield of light, synchronizing their movements through the battle-meld so that one blade was always in position to block without interfering with the other. Source: Dark Nest III: The Swarm War For showing how Leia's Melds have worked in the past to prove the team work aspect. Alema dropped to her haunches and somehow snap-kicked from that impossible position, and Leia's middle exploded into pain. The Princess exhaled hard, forcing the pain out, and did not yield a centimeter. Source: Dark Nest III: The Swarm War just to reiterate her ability to not give ground should she not desire against jadus while also being tough enough to take hits. Leia caught up to the rear of the group and launched herself into a whirling lightsaber attack, cloaking herself behind a basket of sapphire light and batting blaster bolts back toward their source. Source: Legacy of the Force: Tempest both speed, and the ability to take them back to their source with this speed shows her precision. Yammosks could detect the Force, and Kyp maintained that Leia was as strong in the Force as he was. Han was not at all eased by the explanation. Source: The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force Reiterating Leia is as powerful as Kyp Leia accelerated her pirouette, trying to land the attack before Tahiri had time to block, and that was when Han began to realize his wife was really serious about this-she wasn't in it just to teach the younger woman a lesson. "Leia, wo!" The plea made Leia hesitate just long enough for Tahiri to block, then Leia was on her feet again, keeping Tahiri pinned against the strut, beating down her guard, slipping in knee and elbow strikes with a speed and ferocity that only a Barabel-trained fighter could achieve. Source: Legacy of the Force: Inferno Showing hand to hand combat intigrated into saber skills with ferocity taught to her by Saba. Showing Leia will knee you punch you bite you and claw you in the same movement the she tries to cut your head off, making her an extremely fierce fighter. The exchange took place in what seemed like slow motion. Han's shoulders did not hit the door - he staggered back into the corridor. Leia's blade came up and deflected the first three or five thousand bolts from the droid's right arm. Someone shot the droid three, four, five times in the chest-Han was surprised to see the blaster in his own hand, firing as fast as his finger could pull the trigger, his brain not figuring into the equation - and then his shoulderblades hit the passageway wall behind him, throwing his aim off. Source: Legacy of the Force: Fury 3 THOUSAND to 5 Thousand shots in around a second. Again Leia is not slow by any means. I have not seen Jadus pull this kind of speed. Further through fights with Alema and other sith such as this one Care to surrender?" "No." "Good." She came at him. Dei took her first attack, blocking with both skill and sheer strength, a defense meant to look contemptuous, meant to intimidate. Leia was not intimidated. She retreated a step before he could shove her away, disengaged, kicked. His blade swept through the air where her leg should have ended up, but she hadn't followed through. Sand propelled by her foot spattered against his face - the right side of his face. He grinned. Hers had been a viable tactic, countered by damage he'd already sustained. Then it was on, a full-speed duel to the death. Relaxing into the Force, into instinct and muscle memory and training, Dei decided that the moment was one of perfect complementarity. His hot anger against her cool restraint. Male and female. Sith and Jedi. Glowing red against glowing blue. Strength against suppleness. He felt a thrill of delight at the beauty of it. Complementarity - their blades locked, sizzling, then they spun away from each other, and Dei realized he'd made a mistake. Spinning toward his off-hand as he'd done thousands of times, he lost sight of his opponent a fraction of a second early, betrayed by his missing eye. He felt Leia surge in the Force. He whirled his blade in a defensive, protective pattern, but it encountered nothing. They came to a stop facing each other. Dei felt a curious sense of detachment. Then he found himself staring at the sky. He didn't know how, but suddenly he was looking up at the stars. Then at the camp beyond the overlook, and it was upside down. Then at the backs of his own legs and feet. His head hit the sand a moment before his body collapsed. His head rolled a few meters, then came to a stop. The last thing he saw was the nexu, puffed up, blood-spattered, sitting staring at him. And darkness washed that image away forever. Source: Fate of the Jedi: Conviction We see her take advantage of any physical weakness and even use her blaster still in a few off balancing opponents by useing both a blaster and a saber, and several of her battles she was described as striking "as fiercly as a Barabel" a testimate to her training under Saba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 First y'all post when I'm asleep, then the forums go down so I can't even read them while awake. I'll read through this debacle as soon as I can and bring down my fury on those I deem wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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