SWTOR Duelling Tournament - Heats/Round 2B: Team Tunewalker vs Team Randomname

[Beniboybling]

the worst navy in galactic history

I object.

[cs_zoltan]

Grievous vs Kyp:

 

https://media2.giphy.com/media/ajgz23DpDDB4s/200.gif

 

That's pretty much what I wanted to say last night, but I thought I went too far with my spectator Grievous defense as it is. Glad you didn't need my help ^^

[tunewalker]

Grievous vs Kyp:

 

First of all, regarding Mace's quote: I actually think that he is right, Obi-wan is the Jedi most suitable to take on Grievous. While yes Yoda or Mace may be stronger force users, Grievous has shown time and time again that he is able to survive force powers. He has dodged telekinetic blasts, shrigged of being ragdolled or having vehicles smashed into him, walked through force pushes and defeated powerful gorce users. Mostly in Star Wars important duels are decided in light saber combat, because usually both opponents are able to survive the enemy's force attacks and fighting Grievous will be no different. Ehile he lacks all force powers, his agility and durability still allow him to counter force attacks. Thus to ultimatelly destroy Grievous Mace probably believes that he has to be defeated in lightsaber combat and for this Obi-wan is the most suitable. Here we really have to distinguish between the best and the best for the given situation. Yoda and Mace may be more powerful force users then Obi-wan, they may even be better light saber combatants and be able to defeat Obi-wan, but for this fight his fighting style makes Obi-wan the most suited combatant. Obi-wan as the greatest master of Soresu in the entire mythos (at least that I am aware of) was the only one capable of holding of Grievous' constant onslaught of lightsaber attacks and to eventually find and exploit an opening. In Labyrinth of Evil Grievous contended almost evenly with Mace, eventhough they were fighting on top of a rapidly driving train, forcing Grievous to anchor himself into the train's roof, loosing almost all of his mobility. On an even battlefield the two would have been very evenly matched and Kyp is a weaker duelist then Mace. Yoda's Ataru and Mace's Vapaad are extremelly offensive fighting styles and these will fail against Grievous. They would have attacked Grievous with all their might, but he would have blocked, dodged, evaded or tanked every attack and eventually his combat analysis computer would have allowed him to find an opening to exploit and to potentially kill them. And this is exactly what will happen against a duelist as harsh and aggresive as Kyp.

As for tactics, yes inventing the Shadow Bomb shows tactical ingenuity, you know what shows more tactical ingenuity? Winning battles and doing so commonly with an army of canon fodder with three or so force users, the worst navy in galactic history and other leaders with the tactcal ingenuity of a loaf of bread against an army of elite soldiers, literally bread for combat, hundreds or thousands of Jedi, star destroyers that can 5 v 1 your own ones and seceral capable leaders.

As for unorthodox, Grievous is literally the definition of unorthodox. Kyp has never faced an opponent who is anything like Grievous. Whatever Kyp does, Grievous will be less suprised by it, then Kyp will be by Grievous.

As for multiple attack angles. Grievous doesnt have issues witth that in the slightest. On Hypori he fought four Jedi, all attacking from different angles and won. What he does have problems with is overconfidence. He can be taken of guard by opponents that he cviews as inferior when they actually put up something of a fight. Against Kyp, a powerful Jedi master, exactly the type of person who Dooku always warned him about, he will absolutelly go all out.

All in all my impression is that Grievous is stronger, faster, more agile, more durable, more unorthodox and a better tactician and without a fighting style essentially designed to take on Grievous, Kyp will loose.

 

Wrath vs K'kruhk:

 

Honestly I see zero evidence that K'kruhk wil even stand a chance against the Wrath, aside from the unproven claim that K'kruhk is physically stronger, which I consider unlikely as the Wrath can throw Jedi knights with his bare hands. From the evidence given the Wrath is more skilled, more durable and potentially faster and a stronger force user.

 

Jadus vs Leia:

 

While Leia did in deed use tk in a similar way, perhaps even for a longer time, do we actually know how long exactly, because normally atmosphere reentry shouldnt take particularly long and large explosions also take time to unfold. While I dont want to let this boil down to "who lifted the bigger rock", I still have to point out that the more then 100 times difference in terms of size, mass and volume is astounding, especially when you consider the insane amounts of complex machinery and electric systems on board such a large vessel. And even if he used much tutaminis that onky means that he will be insanely difficult for Leia to kill him, if he could tank a cruiser busting explosion. I also dont get why there should not be enough rocks for him to throw around. There's literally an entire building there.

Fuerthermore, he also has other force abilities he could utilise. His force corruption should at least have some detrimental effect on the Jedis' morale and abilities. Finaly he can use his teleport, that afaik none of the opponents are familiar with to rapidly redeploy mid combat and to unexpectedly change position. In fact he could even suddenly teleport out of combat to suddenly appear with an ignited lightsaber behind K'kruhk or Kyp while they are busy fighting with all their energy and backstab them and then return to fight Leia, before she can come to her allies' support.

 

Kyp vs Greivous:

truthfully I am surprised I have to defend this fight at all, I knew Kyp was given very little credit as it was, but this little is astounding, but let me cover things as they come.

 

Let's break down the elements that Obi-wan has that allows him to be the best opponent against greivous.

 

1. Confidence, yet Serious (for those that dont think Obi-wan was "confident" in his fight with greivous remember when he lost his weapon he still chased greivous with out any weapon what so ever... ya that's REAL strategic their obi-wan Cyborg vs Human and you are straight up... I can beat this) Kyp shows this in his duel with Jaina

2. Precision and adaptability (do I even need to say how obi-wan show's these, its called Soresu,.... better yet do I even need to show how KYP shows this Between his tactical applications of TK against all kinds of opponents to his battles with the vong, His ability to fight in open spaces or cramped spaces his ability to deal with just about anything thrown at him, and his ability still hit with precise attacks.

3. Strong enough with the Force to occassionally use it as a weapon to either disarm or off balance Grievous... again we see this domstrated by Kenobi, and I REALLY shouldnt have to defend Kyp in this regard.

 

The elements that caused Greivous's death are the ones that are present in Kyp durron. But lets move on further to OTHER times Greivous has lost (he has lost more then once after all and not paying attention to those is fatal.)

 

Kyp could win battles using enemy fleets against them and just a couple squads in the vong war and the Second Galactic Civil war. Kyp has won several battles, and you know what doesnt matter in a small scale fight such as this... large scale tactical capabilities. So basically all of the "battles" are kind of moot any way.

 

For unorthodox, I am littlerally laughing my rear off right now.

 

For proof

Dooku has to remind Greivous to use the unorthodox, showing that its not natural to him as you claim it is. Further against he gungans, and against the Dathomirians he doenst use unorthodox, and he barely uses anyting unorthodox against kenobi in some of the clone wars stuff. Kyp's "Playing" with Luke as well as inventing force techniques on the fly all show that he does so on a regular basis no reminder neccisary. Also while greivous may be able to use the Unorthodox that doesnt mean he is immune to it being used against him. Again Dooku, again Gungans, heck even here

(oh look force powers again easily off-balancing Greivous and forcing him to retreat... imagine that) you know the real reason Grievous hasnt been force crushed and ended in any of his fights... its called Plot armor he has dodged wave based attacks but any straight out throttle he has never dodged and any time its used on him its a GG... between Dooku and Windu both have been done.

 

next lets examine this Hypori fight First its from OCW not TCW which means take it with a huge grain of salt.

Look at the condition of all these Jedi, there are hundreds, if not thousands of droids their cloths are dirty and torn, they are all tired and broken already. Now how did he handle being attacked from mulitple angles? Just randomly spin his arms around to intimidate his opponents further, This isnt handling attacks from multiple angles, though it is handling multiple extremely tired, and mentally broken opponents. He then seperates 1 opponent out turning the battle into a sequence of 1v1 duels, when the troopers showed up and started putting out shots from multiple angles.... he ran, smart man... he knows what he cant handle. And how about we use a clip from a show that we ARENT taking with a grain of salt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW8ku_RW6xs again we arent talking about multiple saber duelists coming at him from the sides, we are talking about multiple ATTACKS coming at him from the sides, Stones that strike similarly how he was hit by the gungan balls that were being thrown, Saber stabs that hit just like the shock staffs, except its a saber so you know more damage. Greivous was able to beat tired opponents like Shak Tii, Kyp is able to beat a Tired Luke... Sorry but Tired Luke > Tired Shaak ti or Tired ANY of the opponents Grevious faced on Hypori.

 

Further kyp has never dealt with an Opponent like grevious? The Yuuzong Vong. each one of them uses a snake like weapon, the weapon itself moves and dodges and he cuts down these warriors in droves. Through speed and precision. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Amphistaff

 

The warrior caste served as the armies of the Yuuzhan Vong and was one of the largest castes who essentially served in the military branch of their race. Members of the caste were trained from an early age to excel in combat. Warriors were also more aggressive than other Yuuzhan Vong.

If a warrior captured an amphistaff as it left its polyp, the two were bound together and the amphistaff would loyally serve its new master in battle. Hand motions from the warrior coaxed the amphistaff to either harden or become pliable, for each had its own purposes. Amphistaffs had three distinct forms: a quarterstaff, a spear, or a whip. As a hardened spear with a poisonous head, the amphistaff could be hurled, further increasing its lethality. As a flexible whip, the amphistaff could trip or pin its target and even poison it.[1] Amphistaffs were one of the most durable objects known, as not even lightsabers could cut through them. When used as a heavy staff, the serpent would endure blow after blow from the Jedi weaponry and remain unfazed. The amphistaff's edge—measured in atoms—slashed through flesh with no resistance. In the blink of an eye, the amphistaff could soften and wind around the lightsaber's blade, its venomous jaws snapping and tearing at the unfortunate victim's face.

 

Finally your in conclusion Stronger, maybe probably he is after all a cyborg, Faster, HA this is a laugh do you know how fast opponents he has fought and beat and or fought evenly with like Jaina Solo are no greivous is not faster, More agile... maybe depending on what you call agility, More durable, again I wish to remind every one just how durable Kyp durron can be he survived as a CHILD for years in the spice mines of Kessel something that has killed full grown wookies, he has crushed nearly every bone in his body and slowed his heart rate to shove HIMSELF into a crate and survive in the vacuum of space for a while until some one got him... again as a Child... lets repeat that people he has crushed HIS OWN BONES to push himself into a crate as a CHILD Greivous's armor may be more durable and tougher, but Greivous himself is not... just check here

More unorthodox and more tactical again this is laughable in TCW we see him use direct forward tactics all the time and I just showed that he has to be reminded to use Unorthodox tactics something Kyp never needs to be reminded to do its in his very nature, he is neither more tactical nor is he more unorthodox, finally Kyp DOES have a fighting style specifically set to defeat Greivous, his type of blade work has been what has dropped greivous every time, be it Dooku or Obi-wan, precise fast and adaptable... gets greivous every time.

 

Finally to go further into Greivous using the cracks and stuff to hide around again I say

again Kyp was raised in the spice mines of Kessel, with little to no training he could guide himself through the mines and he was able to fly through a series of black holes. Greivous has learned to use those kinds of areas, Kyp was BORN using them.

 

Further I still wanted to re-iterate 1 note that I think was forgotten Solidifying Kyp's tactical lead.... Streen, streen does not have a problem reading minds or sensing people. His problem is NOT reading minds and Sensing people. Unless he actively stops himself, and in this fight he wont. The non-force sensitive in this fight, Grievous, his every thought will be common knowledge to the group that includes Kyp. Even if Greivous HAD a tactical advantage, that is completely gone with his every thought being at Kyp's disposal.

 

 

 

 

Wrath vs K'kruhk:

 

 

Being able to throw people "with their bare hands" is basically like saying.. Oh look my Force augmented strength is enough to match the natural Biology of K'kruhk.... he is a whipid, even elderly Whipids WITH OUT force augmented strength can do that. "more skilled" where do you see that, K'kruhk helped teach Cade skywalker and was a grand master, they are era's apart how can you possibly determine which one is more skilled? More powerful with the Force? again since when K'kruhk dropped a Corvette with the force (or was it a Frigate not sure its some where between 100-300 meters in size) no one that has fought the Wrath seriously has done that, that I know of. Finally it doesnt matter if K'kruhk is as powerful as the Wrath, or that K'kruhk can beat the wrath. What matters is he can hold out against he Wrath. The Wrath isnt using super offensive forms that K'kruhk doesnt know intimately, I have never seen him use anything unorthodox which was the only thing that worked on him BEFORE he was grand master (before the dark times, before the NJO and before the one sith, his battle with Quinlon Vos though to me gives doubt that unorthodox still works on him any way) and of the opponents the Wrath HAS beaten, I see no reason to think that K'kruhk isnt equally as skilled and as powerful as them while being mentally more stable (the 2 Jedi knight team) or just physically more fit (the aging old Human... he is human he is automatically less fit then a whipid, but aging as well sorry not even close) or again the Fat guy (Baras) and with all of thse the wrath HAD HELP... the wrath never beat any of his opponents alone. So can the Wrath beat K'kruhk? maybe. Can he beat him quickly? no, just no. K'kruhk has fallen from incredible heights and has survived more wars then any one here has even seen, he isnt going down easy.

 

 

 

Leia vs Jadus

 

 

I am not saying there arent enough rocks for him to throw, I am saying the rocks are not in great enough number or size that Leia can not defend against them with her given abilities, even if he IS stronger there is nothing here that will allow him to utilize that greater strength because there is nothing here that Leia hasnt shown the capability to use as well. Anything he can do to her she can do to him with these rocks (people often need to dodge them, rarely can they deflect all of them) and she has shown the habit to do it in combat more often. I am looking at in combat habits and she is far more likely to and both have been able to handle what is here on the ground. I have also already talked about Force "teleport" first I am not sure that is what's going on there, that is seen through the eyes of a non-force sensitive and they have often seen "speed" as teleporting, and Leia has matched that kind of speed deflecting blaster bolts that looked like an "ion drive... something or another" further if you honestly dont think its a power this team is aware of I need you to think again. They faced Abeloth, some one that is capable of it, they have the journals given to the Dathomirians, and some of them were known for it, in addition they have faced all kinds of Dark side adepts and a few of Palpatines were able to do this. This is not a power that is in any way foreign to this team. Further I want to note something about Jadus's use this is from the wookie on "teleport"

 

It was not the most uncommon of rare Force powers, seeing common use among Jedi who favored the power of the Force over lightsaber skills. It also consumed a bit more energy than some powers and took a bit more time to master. Most beings new to the skill could likely move no more than four feet away.

 

He never moves more then a few feet, and he is never shown doing so in combat, only to dodge 1 shot from a blaster. To think he can do this in the midst of a lightsaber battle seems a bit far fetched to me given its noted energy consumption and seeing as Jadus never used it to go more then a few feet and never used it in combat.

 

Further even if he can do it, she doesnt need to come to her allies aid.... you still forgot Streen, and you forgot they are all Force Melded. Which brings me to the corruption claim. Force Melds ahve been known to help levy against these kinds of attacks, but its not needed. Leia is a rock, Palpatine tried to touch her with something like this and was zapped for his trouble while she was untrained http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4065822 Streen was overcome by this ability once againt Exar Kun, but after breaking it Kun tried again just to be met with a trap set by the Jedi, Streen had become Immune, Kyp same thing, K'kruhk spent time away from the order, but then saw what the dark side had and was solidified to the light. Further Leia is an extremely gifted Telepath and skilled with mind trick with them melded together none of the mind trick type stuff is going to work on this team. Basically most of the people here have gained the same immunity the Hero of Tython gained after his brief time under mind control.

 

Finally all of this points to another huge problem for Jadus, he doesnt really have any lightsaber feats, and as you said with greivous it often comes down to lightsaber combat when the opponents can survive their force abilities, and Leia has proven time and again she is an incredibly skilled duelist. If we are to believe that Greivous can beat Kyp in a saber duel, I see no reason why Leia couldnt do the same to Jadus who has much less saber feats over her then Kyp has against Greivous.

 

 

 

Team work:

 

 

I have alluded to this multiple times but I think its being missed. My team is Force Melded, they are also used to working together and will stay very in sync with one another. This is not 3 1v1's with a helpless bystander on the side lines like some seem to think, nor is this even 3 1v1's with a skilled force user coming in and out of 1 of the fights as I have portrayed. This is a 4v3 fight, and I think we need to respect what that actually means.

 

The only means Greivous has used to handle multiple angle attacks would be dangerous to his own team mates as he spins his swords with no force abilities to sense when an ally is in danger from such an attack. there is a reason greivous always worked on his own in saber battles. Other allies in that close range were at just as much danger from his attack as his enemies were.

 

Wrath has worked with 1 other person usually but that other person isnt here, and unless it was an extremely skilled saber duelist that he knew personally/ trained, he hasnt really fought in saber combat with an ally either meaning allies could just get in his way.

 

 

Finally of course we have never seen Jadus fight with allies either, basically all of the enemies teams are going to be thinking about them and "their opponent" focused on the fight at hand, meanwhile my team will be thinking of each other and the fight as a whole. Kyp will use a Stone thrown by Leia at Jadus that Jadus deflected or dodged to hit Grevious in the back of hte leg and off balance him. Kyp will throw a rock at Greivous who will cut it in half causing it to split off towards both Jadus and the Wrath. Jadus will throw a rock at Leia who will dodge it causing the stone to hit the Wrath in the back and push him straight into K'kruhk's saber.

 

This is my team

(Zukko and Sokka)

 

This is my enemies team

 

They are sith lords who have not been known to work together, Grievous himself has noted several times that he doesnt like Sidious or Dooku but saw them as powerful allies, if these allies get in his way at all or any of them do even once they are all going to see each other as a liability and my cohesive team is going to pick them apart 1 by 1, divide them and then conquer them. As my team is cohesive it would not be difficult for them to force this team of individuals into getting into each others way be it with a blade, a rock or anything else. Especially starting in this cramped space and with their knowledge of these ruins.

 

Edited July 14, 2015 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

I object.

 

Ya just wanted to note.... we are talking about the largest army and one of hte largest navies in history out numbering their opponents around 100 to 1 if not better... and they still lost. That's Quantity vs Quality right there, if Greivous WAS that good a general he would have found a way for the numbers to defeat the quality and won the war even with Sidious working against both sides.

 

 

Edit: wanted to remind every one what K'kruhk looks like http://orig14.deviantart.net/1768/f/2010/026/c/3/c32be3bf459f6054c543f8ce156e7047.jpg he is a whiphid there is no body types in SWTOR or races in SWTOR besides wookies (which a player character cant be) that can naturally match the strength of a whiphid.

Edited July 13, 2015 by tunewalker

[cs_zoltan]

I suddenly feel really sorry for Sel and Random, because they actually have to read the whole thing. Edited July 13, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[Silenceo]

I suddenly feel really sorry for Sel, because she actually have to read the whole thing.

 

What are the odds? She gets both of the matches that ACTUALLY has dialogue between the two participants?!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p_P6Tmp0CE

[tunewalker]

I suddenly feel really sorry for Sel, because she actually have to read the whole thing.

 

I do to... I do to.... Honestly I probably should have just skipped to the team work thing... it really is the most relevant thing, and honestly people are going to believe what they are going to believe.

 

 

Edit: i would again like to remind every one, its not always the most powerful team that wins, but the team best able to work together, its not always the most skilled, but the one that has the best tools for the job. I am hoping I am showing what tools these characters have and why they are effective against their opponents.

 

 

For a general Team concept let me see if I cant break this down.

 

 

Leia and Kyp are the skilled fast and precise saber duelists, they utilize unorthodox tactics and Telekinetic or Telepathic attacks to off balance their opponent while utilizing precise and fast blade work to take advantage of any openings created by their unorthodox techniques. Their brush with all kind of situations make these 2 highly adaptable and their constant use of ways to off balance opponents mean they are never relying on pure skill or power to win the day.

 

K'kruhk is the tanky power duelist, He utilizes power blows in his strikes all the time and has survived or taken blows that would other wise disable or kill nearly every other target. Even his physiology is just built to be a tank. His mentallity that has allowed him to survive the Dark times was also considered useful as that mentallity being melded together with the others may lead to a team living when they other wise wouldnt.

 

Streen is the guy that allows my team to ensure constant terrain/ tactical advantages. Between mind reading and altering the enviroment to always suit the needs of his allies, he can ensure that regardless of the tactical skills of the people facing Leia, Kyp or K'kruhk he can shift the fight in their favor with a gust of wind, a rock in the right spot, a mind read of an opponent or an extra blade right when they need it. There is no reason to think he is any worse a duelist then the ones that accompanies Katarn to capture Jacen, in fact as a master there is a reason to assume he is better then them.

Edited July 13, 2015 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

I suddenly feel really sorry for Sel and Random, because they actually have to read the whole thing.

 

 

I don't know, I feel like the Final is going to blow the rest of the matches out of the water, whoever may be in it...

[cs_zoltan]

Well sorry that I felt sorry.

I don't know, I feel like the Final is going to blow the rest of the matches out of the water, whoever may be in it...

Not sure how that's relevant to what I said, but ok. I guess so too.

[Selenial]

Well sorry that I felt sorry.

 

Not sure how that's relevant to what I said, but ok. I guess so too.

 

That emoji really needs to be renamed to sad, because you really got the wrong end of the stick there

 

Length wise I mean. This is probably nothing in terms of what we'll see later.

[tunewalker]

That emoji really needs to be renamed to sad, because you really got the wrong end of the stick there

 

Length wise I mean. This is probably nothing in terms of what we'll see later.

 

I think is the Emoji you are looking for

[cs_zoltan]

That emoji really needs to be renamed to sad, because you really got the wrong end of the stick there

Or you know...use the sad one ->

Length wise I mean. This is probably nothing in terms of what we'll see later.

 

Oh I didn't mean because of the length...

[Selenial]

Or you know...use the sad one ->

 

 

Oh I didn't mean because of the length...

 

The sad one is super ugly. I don't do ugly

 

Also... Oops.

[cs_zoltan]

The sad one is super ugly. I don't do ugly

 

Also... Oops.

 

Use this then: http://th07.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2010/195/8/1/Sad_Jawa_by_Kutzman.png

[tunewalker]

Or you know...use the sad one ->

 

 

Oh I didn't mean because of the length...

 

What.... you refering to girth of the debate???? pretty sure its only ever as wide as the page allows .

Edited July 13, 2015 by tunewalker

[raandomname]

Ya just wanted to note.... we are talking about the largest army and one of hte largest navies in history out numbering their opponents around 100 to 1 if not better... and they still lost. That's Quantity vs Quality right there, if Greivous WAS that good a general he would have found a way for the numbers to defeat the quality and won the war even with Sidious working against both sides.

Come on now. This is just ridiculous. Not even Thrawn could have won the war for the CIS if Sidious didnt want it. The whole point of the plan was not no side could win, if Sidious didnt want them to and you know that.

[tunewalker]

Come on now. This is just ridiculous. Not even Thrawn could have won the war for the CIS if Sidious didnt want it. The whole point of the plan was not no side could win, if Sidious didnt want them to and you know that.

 

Which means Greivous's tactical ability had 0 to do with why the Droid armies did so well, and you know it. Yet you tried to use it as a show of "grievous's tactical capabilities" rather then Sidious war manipulations.

 

 

Also i made an edit to talk about the Vong so there was proof to the claim that the times when Kyp is fighting multiple Vong he is fighting highly unpredictable, skilled and fast warriors in groups that are effectively hitting him from multiple angles do to the number of bodies and those strikes able to litterally snake around each other. So that it didnt look like I was just making things up.

Edited July 14, 2015 by tunewalker

[cs_zoltan]

Do you even know who Grievous is? This is really getting ridiculous.

[tunewalker]

Do you even know who Grievous is? This is really getting ridiculous.

 

Yes... Yes I do, I am wondering if you do.

 

he is a Kaleesh warrior who fought in Colesium's until joining the seperatists, a plot by Sidious and Dooku caused him to get injured they put him into a cybernetic armor and Dooku taught the Kaleesh warrior the Jedi arts so that he could use that against them. As Windu says he can be a coward at times, but he is a highly skilled warrior who has proven himself against all kinds of opponents through out the galaxy, but this doesnt mean he does not have any weaknesses or a fighting style. And how many videos have I linked of him with those weaknesses in tact, nothing I have said has been false...

 

During Hypori where the Jedi exhausted? absolutely.

 

Did Greivous occassionally just send droves of "expendable driods" at his opponents? yes, because he hates droids and sees them as expendable as is, he hates it any time some one refers to him as a droid.. (another psychological weakness if the team can figure it out)

 

Did Dooku's precise blade work and force abilities cause Greivous issues and did Greivous respect Dooku for these reasons? yes... again

 

Was it these same aspects that allowed Obi-wan to beat him? yes

 

Nothing I have said has been false, I have linked quotes providing it, I have shown videos proving it. If you watched the links you would know this already.

 

his battle with Fisto shows that an opponent who is capable of dealing with attacks from multiple angles can handle greivous, as it is fisto's shii-cho that is attributed to holding out against greivous. And Greivous has, to my knowledge, never beaten a Jedi Master with out breaking them before hand in anything beyond OCW comics which are not as canon as their TCW counter parts.

Edited July 14, 2015 by tunewalker

[cs_zoltan]

Yes... Yes I do, I am wondering if you do.

 

That's even worse, so you are discrediting him on purpose. And your "come back" is pathetic. I'm sure I know more about him than you ever will.

 

• I guess Grievous was one of the best Jedi killers of all time because he can be killed by a simple force crush.
  
• I guess Grievous was one of the best military leaders and turned the tide of a war single handedly even before he joined the CIS because of Sidious.
  
• I guess the Kaleesh thought of him as demigod because of Sidious.
  

Seriously Tune get real. You won't win this fight with Random by belittling Grievous. The sooner you accept that he isn't a pushover the better.

[Silenceo]

That's even worse, so you are discrediting him on purpose. And your "come back" is pathetic. I'm sure I know more about him than you ever will.

 

• I guess Grievous was one of the best Jedi killers of all time because he can be killed by a simple force crush.
  
• I guess Grievous was one of the best military leaders and turned the tide of a war single handedly even before he joined the CIS because of Sidious.
  
• I guess the Kaleesh thought of him as demigod because of Sidious.
  

Seriously Tune get real. You won't win this fight with Random by belittling Grievous. The sooner you accept that he isn't a pushover the better.

 

I thought we were all supposed to stay as spectators and at most, give corrections? It is up to Dom'Rahn to argue whether or not Grievous can take it or not. Heck, it would be akin to if someone came into our match and started throwing out accolades for Darth Vader.

 

In regards to Grievous though, I do not feel Tune is mistaken because he is, quite simply, using the Cyborgs known weaknesses against him, and explaining how and why his team can do so. He is perfectly within the bounds. Frankly, I just feel with all the 'correction' being done, that you are trying to usurp Dom'Rahn as the other participant.

 

Now, to leave off on a amusing note to ease any tension this post may cause...

[cs_zoltan]

I believe that's for Sel to decide, not you.

[tunewalker]

That's even worse, so you are discrediting him on purpose. And your "come back" is pathetic. I'm sure I know more about him than you ever will.

 

• I guess Grievous was one of the best Jedi killers of all time because he can be killed by a simple force crush.
  
• I guess Grievous was one of the best military leaders and turned the tide of a war single handedly even before he joined the CIS because of Sidious.
  
• I guess the Kaleesh thought of him as demigod because of Sidious.
  

Seriously Tune get real. You won't win this fight with Random by belittling Grievous. The sooner you accept that he isn't a pushover the better.

 

I HAVE accepted he isnt a push over, have you read my posts about how Streen's abilities will add to Kyp's so that Kyp doesnt have to fight him alone. I have am Trying to give Credit to Kyp not belittle Greivous... he has weaknesses. Weaknesses Kyp can and HAS exploited in other opponents before. Who do you think Kyp is? some hack jedi who doesnt know how to wield a saber? the way these talks have been going I am actually under the belief that you guys believe Greivous can solo my whole team. That his habits of working alone with have no barring on this fight. That his lack of force sensitivity thus lack of shielding his mind from being read, will have no bearing on Kyp's ability to fight him with Streen's help. That Kyp's saber skills and ability to, in Luke's own addmition, defeat Luke when he is tired who is far better then any one Greivous has beat when they were tired.

 

1. No its because his armor is incredibly tough and no 2 bit Force Crush is capable of hurting him, but one powerful enough from some one such as say.. Windu, or in this case Kyp or Leia who have shown incredible Force power especially in the realms of TK are capable of harming that armor.

 

2. Did he? did he really? he may be credited with it but if this is the case why did Sidious have to slow the Republic and continue to manipulate the war in CiS favor every now and again. He had numbers on his side and as it's said Sidious was manipulating both sides of the war. If he is to be credited for several of the victories then you cant wash your hands of his defeats either. You cant just take the good with out the bad, THAT is over blowing a character. And tactical ability in large scale battles does not translate to small scale.. thankfull you shouldnt need that with Greivous he has shown PLENTY of small scale tactical capabilities, but that doesnt mean you all of a sudden ignore his opponents small scale tactical accomplishments, between fighting vong, to fighting Luke, to fighting the Leviathon in every fight he has shown small scale tactical capabilities I am NOT ignoring Greivous's strength's or trying to under blow him this forum is discrediting Kyp's abilities with out reason, discrediting Streen's effect on the battle with out even giving a reason at all for it, and talking like you are all the Kaleesh that think he is a god.

 

3. yes he earned that himself. You know who earned God Hood status for the much more deadly Vong rather then the Kaleesh.... his name was Ganner Rhysode, and he is not on the same level as Kyp Durron.

 

 

I get it we all know Greivous so its time to keep my dukes up on Kyp durron, I knew this would be a fight, but holy hell I didnt realize it would be this much of a fight. I thought I could just link Luke creditng Kyp as one of hte finest show him beat Jaina in every fight they had and show him trounce a dozen Vong warriors and every one would understand that he is more then a TK player, but more is needed.

 

 

So getting the vong thing quatified real quick and why it = defeating greivous... to note I have already given why this battle will be the shortest, it has to do with the toughness of K'kruhk, and the style that the Wrath is using, not with how weak Greivous is. It has to do with Jadus not having any real means to break through Leia's defenses, as I dont see anything big enough for him to throw that Leia or Streen cant take care of, and I have seen no saber feats that Leia cant match or surpass again not Greivous weakness but the other match up being more of a long haul then this one will be do to the styles and capabilities of the combatants.

 

First Trained since young.... They are both highly skilled (though Greivous likely more so, but that is off set by numbers)

Unpredictable fighting style, Greivous can use a highly randomized attack pattern, but the vong's weapons were designed to be highly randomized and difficult to predict as well....

Attacking from multiple angles, Greivous's ability to attack from multiple angles is caused by his 4 blades, multiple Vong, by being multiple vong..

He did this with quick precise strikes to get around the vong's strong armor that can occassionally shrug off glancing blows from sabers, showing he isnt some aggressive while swinging person that is being portrayed but highly precise and efficient.

 

This IS proof that Kyp has dealt with a similar type of situation and succeeded. I am not saying greivous is weak, or unskilled, or anything like that I am just saying Kyp has the tool set to beat him. The "highly aggressive wild child" that has been described as Kyp is not who he is at least not since he was a padawaan, I am using Jedi MASTER Kyp, not Knight, and Not Padawaan.

[Silenceo]

I believe that's for Sel to decide, not you.

 

It is, yes, but I am merely giving 'corrections' which is really a broad term. However, but by DEFINITION you have been putting forth arguments, which is actually NOT something Sel decides, those are hard coded into the tourney's rules.

 

Argument:

 

1. an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one

2. a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong

Synonym : reasoning, justification, explanation, rationalization, case, defense, vindication, evidence, reasons, grounds, counterargument

3. an independent variable associated with a function and determining the value of the function. For example, in the expression

4. a value or address passed to a procedure or function at the time of call

5. any of the noun phrases in a clause that are related directly to the verb, typically the subject, direct object, and indirect object

6. the middle term in a syllogism

7. a summary of the subject matter of a book

 

Or to quote the original thread:

 

In this first and primary stage of each matchup, it will be the role of the competitor to provide opening arguments, analyses, rebuttals etc. altogether make a convincing argument for why their team will win. Note that as a strictly 1 v 1 phase between the two competitors, we’d ask you refrain from posting your own arguments until this stage is over – though making corrections/pointing out the facts is acceptable.

 

Also, no need to be so hostile Z, I am merely 'pointing out' that you are putting forth arguments when it is not the time.

 

Edited July 14, 2015 by Silenceo

[cs_zoltan]

Also, no need to be so hostile Z, I am merely 'pointing out' that you are putting forth arguments when it is not the time.

 

According to whom? I fail to see how this is an argument:

That's even worse, so you are discrediting him on purpose. And your "come back" is pathetic. I'm sure I know more about him than you ever will.

 

• I guess Grievous was one of the best Jedi killers of all time because he can be killed by a simple force crush.
  
• I guess Grievous was one of the best military leaders and turned the tide of a war single handedly even before he joined the CIS because of Sidious.
  
• I guess the Kaleesh thought of him as demigod because of Sidious.
  

Seriously Tune get real. You won't win this fight with Random by belittling Grievous. The sooner you accept that he isn't a pushover the better.