cs_zoltan Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Taking my role as mother seriously http://www.thedailyaztec.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/M-Scott3.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 BTW, Sel, can you not do an advice section in the decision post? I wanna do it tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) I'm gona vote my liver, because it could support me for 14 pages. https://youtu.be/YBLcxXR1PMw?t=3m4s Edited July 25, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) Serious vote incoming, you've been warned. First of all I'm gona say: http://www.quickmeme.com/img/50/504962364be721d5a0d2367b100b0365096d18b228ea1dd0989107f1054a4f94.jpg Lightsaber combat Tune really didn't provide much lightsaber feat aside from Kyp. In this regard based on the argumetns posted I don't think Kyp could take on Grievous in a pure lightsaber duel. It's not a coincidence that highly offensive duelits can stop their opponents to bring their powers to bare. When every second, every thought, every move is dedicated to stop 20 strike per second you won't have time to do anything else. Wrath's saber skills were adequately covered, although Random didn't spend enough time on the benefits of each form the Wrath has mastered. But Tune barely brought up any saber feat or accolades for K'kruthingy (i still can't spell that ****). Leia, Jadus, and Streen's lightsaber skills might as well be non existant at this point. I give the edge to Random. Force abilities As far as I could take out from the debate the strongest force user here is Jadus, followed by Kyp. Due to the 3vs4 and because Random has a non-force user I give Tune the edge. Teamwork & Tactics **** details, Tune's team know each other, Random's don't. Edge to Tune in teamwork. Tactics. Well you guys didn't really go deep into this. The nature of the 3vs4 was barely covered. Streen was barely a foot note. Force Meld yet again not applicable. Random didn't really say anything how he would handle Streen or the Force Meld (even though there won't be any). In that regard I give Tune the edge. Handling the environment Really? Rocks? That all? Beyond rocks there was barely any mention of this. Confined space was brought up, but not convincing enough why it would be helpful. No traps or luring enemies to favourable places. No edge. Conclusion I vote Tune. But god this was a mess. Edited July 25, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Your turn Aurbere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Welp, my original post I had written got deleted, so let's try this again. Lightsaber Skill I'm not really inclined to make any vote here. While Random showed Grievous able to take on any of Tune's team in lightsaber combat, he did not do the same for the rest of his team. That issue, of course, arises from the debate having a strange focus on Grievous. If given time and exposure in the debate, the Wrath could have been placed on a much higher level than he is now. Additionally, Tune is correct in saying Jadus lacks any real evidence for lightsaber skill. Tune didn't really provide much evidence for his team in this regard either. So no edge given. Force Abilities I'll be giving an edge to Random here. The primary reason for this is because of the way Tune approached this debate for the majority of it. He seemed to practically outright dismiss the power and accolades of Jadus and Wrath due to their lack of exposure and supposed feats against random no-names. It is for this reason alone that I'm giving Random the edge here. Dismissing feats for inadequate reasons and generally lowballing characters is not adequate for an argument, as was a component to Tune's argument in this regard. I cannot in good conscience give props to Tune for his arguments in this section when he made cases such as that. It is a major complaint that I have with his arguments, and I will address that and more after Sel makes her decision. Teamwork and Tactics I'm giving a slight edge to Tune here. Obviously his team should have an edge, given their nature. However, the edge is only slight because of Tune's approach to it, once again. He felt the need to portray extremely intelligent characters as buffoons. Jadus and Grievous are repeatedly stated to be extremely smart (as I believe Random showed). I do not believe that they will be so easily manipulated. Nor do I think Jadus will be pelting Wrath with rocks Environment Control Not a whole lot was put into this, but I think Random gets the edge. There wasn't much debate that was had here, but he at least argued that his team would make use of it. Heck, Tune even suggested that Random's team would too. Vote With all of that said and done, I decided to vote for Tune overall. The issue of teamwork was a major advantage for him, obviously, as was the 4v3 component. Additionally, Tune stood himself on more solid ground in certain areas, and Random didn't apply the abilities of his characters enough for me to give him the win. So I decided to vote for Tune. However, I also found this debate incredibly frustrating on both ends. Too many mistakes were made. After Sel calls it, I'll be making a post to highlight everything that went wrong, as well as all of my grievances with it. Consider it an opportunity to learn from this and better yourselves. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Serious vote incoming, you've been warned. First of all I'm gona say: http://www.quickmeme.com/img/50/504962364be721d5a0d2367b100b0365096d18b228ea1dd0989107f1054a4f94.jpg Lightsaber combat Tune really didn't provide much lightsaber feat aside from Kyp. In this regard based on the argumetns posted I don't think Kyp could take on Grievous in a pure lightsaber duel. It's not a coincidence that highly offensive duelits can stop their opponents to bring their powers to bare. When every second, every thought, every move is dedicated to stop 20 strike per second you won't have time to do anything else. Wrath's saber skills were adequately covered, although Random didn't spend enough time on the benefits of each form the Wrath has mastered. But Tune barely brought up any saber feat or accolades for K'kruthingy (i still can't spell that ****). Leia, Jadus, and Streen's lightsaber skills might as well be non existant at this point. I give the edge to Random. Force abilities As far as I could take out from the debate the strongest force user here is Jadus, followed by Kyp. Due to the 3vs4 and because Random has a non-force user I give Tune the edge. Teamwork & Tactics **** details, Tune's team know each other, Random's don't. Edge to Tune in teamwork. Tactics. Well you guys didn't really go deep into this. The nature of the 3vs4 was barely covered. Streen was barely a foot note. Force Meld yet again not applicable. Random didn't really say anything how he would handle Streen or the Force Meld (even though there won't be any). In that regard I give Tune the edge. Handling the environment Really? Rocks? That all? Beyond rocks there was barely any mention of this. Confined space was brought up, but not convincing enough why it would be helpful. No traps or luring enemies to favourable places. No edge. Conclusion I vote Tune. But god this was a mess. Why is Force Meld not applicable? it was said to need 3 force users, I have 4 and more then 1 of them has lead a force meld before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Why is Force Meld not applicable? it was said to need 3 force users, I have 4 and more then 1 of them has lead a force meld before. In collaboration with Aurbere we came to the conclusion that Force Meld is to demanding to the unexperienced. In that regard we found no satisfactory evidence that either Streen or K'Kruhk used Force Meld before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 In collaboration with Aurbere we came to the conclusion that Force Meld is to demanding to the unexperienced. In that regard we found no satisfactory evidence that either Streen or K'Kruhk used Force Meld before. We will have this debate later, but lets just say I find it hilarious that you guys call ME the one that low balls characters. I'll leave it at that for now because it is a monster of a fight to get any Post RotJ character not name Luke credit, and my vision is blurry enough as is with the accusations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 We will have this debate later, but lets just say I find it hilarious that you guys call ME the one that low balls characters. I'll leave it at that for now because it is a monster of a fight to get any Post RotJ character not name Luke credit, and my vision is blurry enough as is with the accusations. That seems a bit unfair to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Well, did they use it or not? I don't see why Force Meld would be any different than other powers. Shaak Ti knows Kinetite, that doesn't mean Kenobi knows it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) That seems a bit unfair to say. I know it is, that's why I point out how unfair it is, so that every one else knows how unfair it is. I feel bad for the people that picked Darth Krayt and Cade Skywalker. Reality isnt fair, but its good to know when it's there. Edited July 26, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I know it is, that's why I point out how unfair it is, so that every one else knows how unfair it is. I feel bad for the people that picked Darth Krayt and Cade Skywalker. Well, Sel has Krayt and she won her match. Jarons had Cade and, well... he was out of his depth to begin with. All jokes aside, what makes you feel this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 All jokes aside, what makes you feel this way? Because we don't lick NJO's *** clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Because we don't lick NJO's *** clean. Now, now. I'm sure we can keep things clean during this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Now, now. I'm sure we can keep things clean during this discussion. I don't know about you, but I'm not gona lick anything clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I don't know about you, but I'm not gona lick anything clean. Not really what I meant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Not really what I meant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I moved it out. it doesnt belong clogging up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Meh, what else are we supposed to do while we wait for votes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Wow, I guess it's unfair pointing out that a character doesn't know a certain force power. In that case from now on I'm gona presume that Obi-Wan knows Kinetite, Vaapad, Battle Meditation, Electic Judgment, Force Healing, and can Tutaminis Force Lightning, because the jedi of his era knew those things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) Wow, I guess it's unfair pointing out that a character doesn't know a certain force power. In that case from now on I'm gona presume that Obi-Wan knows Kinetite, Vaapad, Battle Meditation, Electic Judgment, Force Healing, and can Tutaminis Force Lightning, because the jedi of his era knew those things.... I wasnt going to respond to your post about K'kruhk and streen not knowing Force Meld because I didnt want to sway peoples opinions, but fine.... its a variant of Battle Meditation, not every one needs to know the ability to use it in a group with 1 person that does, there were bunches of nameless jedi in fighter squads that participated in it, and none of them ever lead a Meld or are noted as knowing it. It is unneccisarry for all force users in question to be capable of the technique as long as they are all receptive to the technique and 1 of the members is capable of leading it, hence the trade off on "who leads" occassionally between Kyp and Leia to share the burden of leading 2 POTENTIALLY unexperienced members with the technique. Edited July 26, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Well, Sel has Krayt and she won her match. Jarons had Cade and, well... he was out of his depth to begin with. All jokes aside, what makes you feel this way? Hey wait until I win the runner's up bracket then we will see how out of depth I am with Cade:p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I will vote for team randomname, much more well-rounded and spelled out. Team work posts were specifically well made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Hey wait until I win the runner's up bracket then we will see how out of depth I am with Cade:p. Nah, I meant that Revan crushes Cade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts