SWTOR Duelling Tournament - Heats/Round 2B: Team Tunewalker vs Team Randomname

[Selenial]

“Who will be the winners? Who will be the corpses? Audience, place your bets!”

 

Team Tunewalker vs Team Randomname

Kyp Durron, Streen, Leia Organa Solo & K'Kruhk vs Darth Jadus, Emperor's Wrath & General Grievous

 

Welcome to Round 2B of the Heats. For anyone new to the tournament, please look over the rules first before participating, and those who are familiar, you may which to remind yourselves of how it all works.

 

The Battleground: Dantooine Jedi Enclave Ruins

 

Combatants start on either side of the ruined Jedi Council Chamber.

 

Rules of the Debate

 

 

1. Victory by killing, KO’ing or otherwise incapacitating all of the opposing team.
    
    
   
2. Combatants cannot hide or flee, though tactical retreats or attempts to lure the opponent are permitted.
    
    
   
3. Combatant morals and personality traits apply, however they are all ready and willing to kill their opponents.
    
    
   
4. All combatants are equipped with their standard arms and armament.
    
    
   
5. Combatants do not possess any prior knowledge of their opponents beyond what they already know. But they are aware of the names of their combatants which are announced immediately before the fight.
    
    
   
6. Any and all external Force nexuses or amplifiers are for the purposes of debate non-existent.
    
    
   
7. No flaming, trolling or aggressive debating, keep it chill people.
   

 

So without further ado, let the battle begin!

[raandomname]

Darth Jadus:

 

 

Quotes/Accolates:

 

Darth Jadus is an ingenious planer.

 

You really don't understand. Lord Jadus must have made preparations for his death. He was power, and fire and brilliance. The instant the master died, I promise—his contingency plans went into action. They'll bring doom to everything Lord Jadus ever touched… and I want no part of it.

―Vyord Yanol (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

 

Unlike almost all other Sith, Darth Jadus, does not let emotions cloud his judgement.

 

Darth Jadus is reclusive and enigmatic, even among the Sith. He is cold, seething, and brilliant, and of all the members of the Dark Council is the least prone to rage, to laugh, to show any sign of the passions that fuel the dark side.

—Star Wars: The Old Republic Website

 

The rest of the Dark Council fears Darth Jadus.

 

There can be no doubt that Jadus is playing a long game, and the other Dark Lords observe him warily. Until he makes a move, however, there’s little to be done.

—Star Wars: The Old Republic Website

 

Ones directly related to combat:

 

Killing Darth Jadus was nearly unthinkable.

—Keeper (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

 

I can’t call for reinforcements so long as that jamming field is active. But he’ll annihilate anything less than an army.

—Watcher Two (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

 

Damn it, we can’t fight him on our own—his power is second to the Emperor’s.

—Watcher Two (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

 

 

It takes three members of the Dark Council to ultimately subdue Jadus.

 

We've got a full fleet of reinforcements coming in, including three Dark Council vessels.

—Watcher Two (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

 

Force Abilities:

 

One of Darth Jadus' most prevalent abilities is force corruption. His use of this ability is strong enough to casually bring suffering to the personnel of Imperial Intelligence, individuals who are undoubtedly mentally strong if they work for such an esteemed organisation, and he doenst seem to put any effort in using the ability. In fact, it could be merely a side effect of his submersion into the dark side. Of course the opposition's force users possess much stronger mental defences, nonetheless I feel that Jadus' use of the ability will at least have some detrimental effect on his oppositions' morale and combat effectiveness.

 

He has further shown the ability to use force lightning capable of easily decapacitating Cipher 9.

 

He also uses force choke. The most impressive thing about this is that he can even use it while teleporting. In the video below you can see Kaliyo holding her throat before Jadus re-manifests in front of her.

 

Which brings to his next force power: teleportation or fold space, an extremely rare and deadly power whose only other users that I am aware of were the Aing-Tii. The capabilities of this ability are truly frightening, virtually allowing Jadus to appear behind his enemies without warning at moments notice to put a lightsaber straight through their bodies. Although all force users possess some capabilities in pre-cognition, force users are still commonly taken by surprise and as nobody in the opposition team should be even aware that this ability exists, I can easily see him eliminating a part of the opposition using this tactic. Additionally he can, as mentioned above, force choke opponents while teleporting. He can also teleport quickly enough to avoid blaster bolts that move at light speed according to ICS.

 

Energy weapons fire invisible energy beams at lightspeed.

—Attack of the Clones Incredible Cross-Sections

 

Finally, and by far most impressive is his use of telekinesis. In fact I believe that his use of the ability overshadowed even Galen Marek's. My reason for this claim is his incredible feat of holding together the Dominator with telekinesis. Before its departure, the Dominator was confirmed to have been completely and utterly destroyed by all sources, including the highly esteemed Imperial Intelligence, with 100% casualties. Yet Darth Jadus was able to hold the ship together and it maintained complete structural integrity and ALL systems remained functional. Now to illustrate the incredibility (Is that even a word? lol) of this feat, Ill use a simple example. Imagine a stone. What Galen did was essentially to lift that stone. Now imagine that the stone is shattered into multiple tiny pieces. And now imagine someone holding together all of these pieces so that the stone is restored to being completely intact again and is also useable for all possible uses, like construction. Of course the "stone" that Galen lifted was about three times as large, as the "stone" that Jadus lifted (ISD length: 1600 meter vs. Harrower-Class length: 600 meters), but I hope that you will agree that what Jadus did was still more impressive. Of course this isn’t a particularly amazing example, but I hope that you get my point. What makes this even more impressive is that Jadus did it without that much effort. It was his plan all along and he obviously knew full and well that this lay within the realm of his capabilities. If he does something like this casually, just imagine what powers he can unleash in a fight for live and death!

 

Of course a huge thank you goes to Aurbere, because almost everything I mentioned is from his respect thread.

 

 

The Second Emperor's Wrath

 

 

To really see all that the Wrath is capable of Id recommend just reading DarthAnt66's amazing respect thread. However, Ill try to give a tl;dr.

 

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/the-emperor-s-wrath-respect-thread/103818/

 

Combat Feats:

 

As a mere apprentice he becomes the dominant apprentice at the Sith Academy, kills a famous Sith instructor and kills a mutated beast of the famous Sith Lord Marka Ragnos that no Sith survived encountering before and that in itself was a powerful dark side nexus.

He then kills the wife and son of Lord Grathan in the dark side version and the Sith Lord himself in the light side version. Seeing how Grathan was a real pain for even the Dark Council and few dared to actually attack him in person, this is a really impressive feat for a Sith just out of training. He then proceeds to slaughter enemies including full fledged Sith Lords and Jedi Knights and Masters left and right, including Master Yonlach, one of the absolutely greatest of the entire order and his greatest student in lightsaber combat Yul-Li. Finally he defeats the legendary Jedi Master Nomen Karr. Karr defeated Darth Baras and Darth Ekkage and yet the Wrath defeats him, even after the Jedi embraces the dark side and apparently becomes even stronger. Ill let that sink in for a moment: way before his prime the Wrath defeats a stronger version of arguably the most powerful Jedi of his time who previously defeated one of the strongest Sith Lords of the Dark Council and his powerful sister. Basically, the Wrath had already far overshadowed his master in the first chapter of his story.

The Wrath then singlehandedly demolishes the Republic's war effort, killing the War Trust, the best generals of the Republic, their troops and the top secret Siantide project that was predicted to change the outcome of the war and then the legendary Jedis Wyellett and Xerender and does this so quickly that he is still able to escape a collapsing cave. He then procedes to kill his first member of the Dark Council, Darth Vengean, after slaughtering his way through Vengean's entire compound.

Then he kills powerful Sith Lords such as Lord Draahg and Darth Ekkage. On Voss he defeats the Voice of Emperor Vititate that is possessed by the immensely powerful dark side spirit Sel-Makor. Which is really impressive considering that the entity was able overpower Vititate's control (Wrath>Vititate confirmed lol)

On Corelia Darth Vowrawn, a member of the Dark Council and the leading Sith among all who oppose Darth Baras, is so impressed by the Wrath that he concludes that even trying to fight the Wrath is so pointless that he may as well not even try. Throughout the Corelia arc the player usually gets the impression that Vowrawn is not much of a fighter and that perhaps it is more politics and knowledge that are the real basis of his power. However, I would like to remind you that there are literally thousands of Sith in the Empire and that becoming one of the leading twelve of them is impressive to say the least. I also probably don’t have to remind you all how commonly Sith kill each other and this is also shown by the dozens of Sith that the Inquisitor and Warrior kill throughout their stories. What I’m getting at is that Vowrawn, although he may not seem like one, has to be one hell of a fighter in order to achieve and maintain his position.

The Wrath then kills a resurrected Draahg and finally Darth Baras. Although this is not even much more then a footnote on the list of the Wrath's other impressive feats.

 

Force Powers and other Abilities

 

Taking the Sil approach:

- can use telekinesis to casually throw around Sith Lords and Jedi Knights and Masters, including Master Karr, whose power I already discussed. He also has impressive force choke feats, force choking the Voice of Emperor Vititate, Darth Ekkage and Servant One, the leader of the Hands of Emperor Vititate

- his mental defences are strong enough that legendary Jedi Master Yonlach who just wiped the memories of the powerful Jedi sword master Yul-Li, didnt even bother trying to influence the Wrath with the force

- he is so fast that he repeatedly manages to kill his opponents even Jedi, before they can even react

- he is so physically strong that he can virtually toss around Jedi

- he survived standing at the epicentre of an explosion that wiped out an entire oupost standing probably dozens of meters above.

 

 

General Grievous

 

 

Once again Im gonna leave the link to i_like_swords' respect thread here for all the details, but here is a summary:

 

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/general-grievous-respect-thread-1620576/

 

- Strong enough to break phrik electro staffs, durasteel armour, transparisteel viewports, throw around Durge, Darth Maul, Aayla Secura, Ki Adi Mundi and other force users and to casually smash skulls and durasteel consoles

- Durable enough to survive lightsaber stabs, blaster shots, star fighter laser canons, city-busting explosions, having vehicles slammed into his body and a point blank range headshot with a anti-tank PLEX rocket launcher and then falling hundreds of meters

- Force resistance: can walk through Mother Talzin's force barriers and can anchor himself in the ground with his clawed feet to resist force winds and pushes that tear apart Magna Guards. This in combination with his insane durability means that none but the absolutely most powerful force users will be able to actually damage him with the force.

- Speed: can attack at 20 strikes per second, can virtually vanish from sight, can kill Jedi before they are even able to activate their weapons, can move faster then any human being, including Obi-wan, can seem to teleport, can move fast enough to dodge telekinetic blasts, can dodge dozens of blaster and laser bolts and missiles and can keep up with the speed of a descending elevator

- Can use all seven forms of lightsaber combat

- Can analyse the fighting style of an opponent that he has never encountered before mid-combat and adjust his own fighting style accordingly

- Has killed hundreds of Jedi

- Killed companies of clones and several Jedi with nothing but his claws on Geonosis

- Has defeated Ventress and Durge while fighting both at the same time

- Has defeated Shaak Ti twice

- Defeated Shaak Ti, Aayla Secura, Ki-Adi-Mundi, K'kruhk and Tarr Seirr, killing the last two and would have killed the others if reinforcements had not arrived

- Killed the highly esteemed Jedi masters Foul Moudama and Roron Corobb while fighting both at the same time without much effort

- Could contend somewhat evenly with Mace Windu, in spite of using only two lightsabers and having reduced mobility

 

Keep in mind that along with all his raw power and skill Grievous is also an ingenious tactician and strategist. He will not charge his enemies blindly. He will trap, ambush, surprise and intimidate his enemies at any chance that he gets and only few will even stand the slightest chance against him.

 

[tunewalker]

Whats the emperor's second wrath wearing. Duel sabers and medium armor or Heavy armor and a single blade it will dictate his fighting style, and my approach to this.

[raandomname]

Whats the emperor's second wrath wearing. Duel sabers and medium armor or Heavy armor and a single blade it will dictate his fighting style, and my approach to this.

Juggernaught. And good luck btw.

[tunewalker]

Juggernaught. And good luck btw.

 

you to, thank you.. should be able to do this tonight dont worry. I am assuming by your first post that you arent good with just skipping the power level flexing and going for team synergy and terrain talks then...

[tunewalker]

Kyp Durron.

 

 

Some feats.

 

As a student being far past every other student in Luke's academy

 

Kyp proved almost immediately to be the greatest of the apprentices gathered there. With only a minimum of training, he blasted on past all of us in terms of what he could do. Supporting himself on one hand only, he could balance rocks and fallen tree boles with ease. Given my lack of ability in that area, I found his skills somewhat intimidating. Master Skywalker found Kyp's abilities all but mesmerizing and devoted a lot of time to directing his studies.

 

Source: I, Jedi

 

Luke recognizes Kyp as being frighteningly powerful:

 

He thought about those he had trained: Kyp, so intense and so frighteningly powerful.

 

Source: Planet of Twilight

 

Ands its not just the force in which he has accolades of his extremely high caliber

 

He was good; Luke gave him that. He might have been a match for an expert swordsmaster such as Kyp or Kyle Katarn. He would have been too much for a comparatively diffident duelist such as Cilghal, or even Luke as he had been back at Sinkhole Station, at low ebb in physical and mental strength.

 

Luke Putting Kyp Durron on the same level as the Battle master of the Order Kyle Katarn, and more importantly putting Kyp ABOVE himself when he isnt in top form. Showing that even Luke has to be in top form to take on some one like Kyp Durron.

 

But dont take accolades for their words, he has the feats to back it up.

 

TK for proof of power

 

 

First the biggie, he uses the force to move Singularities, miniature black holes. To use as a weapon against he vong, and the struggle is not having enough power, but actually find the balance between enough power and not to much showing that his power is even GREATER then what is neccisary to do this.

 

Within the Force, within the broader range of senses it gave him, he tried to feel the presence of that void. He couldn't feel the Yuuzhan Vong or their creatures, but he could feel distortions in space, hard little nuggets of wrongness where there should be nothing.

 

He felt many of them, but didn't know which belonged to the interdictor, which to the coralskippers, and this rarefied sensory data didn't precisely translate to exact directions and distances. A void that felt far away could be from a coralskipper close at hand.

 

He armed a proton torpedo and fired it. He felt its physical presence as, in a matter of seconds, it closed the distance between him and the interdictor... and was swallowed by another void.

 

He felt it enter the void, felt which of the many singularities it was.

 

And he seized upon that void, directing all his Force abilities and discipline against it.

 

It was like using a thin metal rod to push a grounded landspeeder. Too much pressure and it would bend, becoming useless. Too little and nothing would happen. He had to find the right pressure to budge it, to set it into motion and keep it going that way...

 

For a moment, the only things in the universe were him, Jaina, and the void. He moved the void, turned it around, moved it back the other direction.

 

Then he was himself again, in the cockpit, watching the flank of the interdictor distort. The void had moved back and touched the interdictor, and now the interdictor elongated into it, extending what looked like a pliant extrusion of what he knew to be hardened yorik coral into the singularity.

 

Source: The New Jedi Order: Enemy Lines I: Rebel Dream

 

He has several other TK Accolades such as TKing a frieghter instead of just using a missile to destroy a vong ship. Tking controls on a ship far outside orbit to activate it and fly it to him, Invention of the shadow bomb technique and vastly more.

 

 

Other powers (not all of them) are included here. http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4128043-kyphealing.jpg As it says at the top he was augmented by Kun, but all the powers listed here are ones he mastered himself. I wanted to highlight a few rarer ones he is a master of.

 

Aura of Uneasiness, Force Drain, Force lightning, and TK Kill. They are a bit darker for him but he is definately capable of them, and if given the opportunity I do intend to show where he would use them in this fight.

 

 

For Saber abilities I feel I need to show not tell even more so, that's what I am going to do.

 

Kyp deflects fire from a Class 720 freighter:

 

They had covered half the distance between the ship's bow and the docking exit. Fen was beginning to think maybe no one would notice when Kyp started yelling."Get to the door," he called. Behind them, Fen heard the earsplitting whine of laser fire. She instinctively ducked and pushed Ghitsa forward to the entrance, but couldn't place what the ricochet sound was. Fen whirled around and, for a second, reflexes honed by years of dodging and answering blaster fire failed her. Kyp, the kid of a Jedi, was standing alone in the middle of the docking bay. Lase rfire poured from the Rook's forward guns. And like some weird children's toy, Kyp caught the green killing bolts on his lightsaber and tossed them away. "Fen!" she heard Ghitsa shout. She spun about. Her partner was under the entrance's marginal cover. "It is locked. You'll need to hold them off a few minutes." A few minutes. It was a lifetime in moments like this. She ran back to Kyp. Methodically, even calmly, he deflected each burst of fire. The blasts bounced off the lightsaber, ricocheting at crazy angles.

 

Source: Simple Tricks

 

This shows that Kyp is more then capable of dealing with power blows, and multiple of them in fast succession as blows from Freighters are incredibly powerful for a person to have to deflect.

 

A Yuuzhan Vong fighter streamed toward her, and all others moved aside to let it pass.

 

Jaina reached for the energy that she had found within, that which hurled the dark lightning. She allowed it to flood her and direct her battle.

 

She sank deeper into the consciousness of the alien ship, losing herself in flight as she had always done. For what seemed like hours she and her challenger darted and spun, trading bolts of plasma, dodging and blocking like swordmasters. Jaina did not think - she acted.

 

For a while this seemed to be an effective strategy, but her identification with the living ship was too powerful. A plasma bolt slipped back the dovin basal shields and scorched along the side of the ship. Jaina jolted, screaming, as an unexpected searing pain raced down her left arm. She was surprised to see no physical damage there.

 

Barely conscious, she began to slide completely into the darkness. Again she fell back in time, into the terrifying duel at the Shadow Academy. Again she fought Darth Vader, but this time she could not prevail.

 

Her opponent stepped back and ripped off the black helmet, revealing Kyp Durron's face.

Source: The New Jedi Order: Dark Journey

 

Pulled this from Star's battle, but I wanted to note something. Jaina was giving it her all against Kyp. She doesnt know its him, she thinks its more Yuuzong Vong, but Kyp knows other wise, showing that he is not likely going for the kill and she is. This is like Vader vs Luke on Cloud City, except Jaina doesnt land a blow on Kyp at any point.

 

Further showing Jaina vs Kyp.

The older Jedi spun toward the door. Jaina pulled her lightsaber.

 

Kyp stopped dead at the click and hum unique to the traditional Jedi weapon. He slowly turned to face her, hands raised in a placating gesture. "I don't want to fight you."

 

Her violet blade rose toward his throat. "You'd change your mind if the stakes were high enough."

 

"Don't be ridiculous. You wouldn't kill me even if you could!"

 

"The idea isn't without a certain appeal, but it's not what I had in mind. If I win, you fly the rest of this battle under my command. If you win, I'm yours. No more holding out, no more games. I'll keep the channels open, act like a real apprentice."

 

He considered her for a long moment. "Done."

 

His lightsaber leapt from his belt, flipped in midair, and slapped down into his hand. The glowing blade hissed toward her. Jaina vaulted above the flamboyant attack and flipped over Kyp's head. He rolled aside to avoid a possible slashing counter and came up in a crouch.

 

Jaina backed down the stairs, her weapon at high guard. He advanced, then darted forward with a quick feinting lunge.

 

She anticipated his move and leaned away from it, then quickly changed directions and lunged for him, sweeping her arm up into a rising parry that threw his lightsaber out wide. Her wrist twisted deftly to disengage the shining blades, and then she leapt straight up.

 

Kyp somersaulted down the stairs, turned, and came up with his lightsaber held high and ready. The younger Jedi dropped to the floor beside him and delivered two quick, testing jabs. He parried both. They drew apart and circled, taking each other's measure, exchanging blows that became less tentative with each strike.

 

Jaina's confident smile began to falter. "I'm not going to let you stop this next flight."

 

She whirled away from Kyp's high, slashing attack and caught his weapon in an overhead parry. A quick twist brought her around to face him. He disengaged and stepped back. "Who said I wanted to stop the mission? I want to fly it."

 

Jaina blinked. "You do?"

 

"If the mission is that important, I'll go myself."

 

"Forget it. The Jedi are too few and too valuable to risk."

 

"I know," he agreed, "and that's precisely why I need to go."

 

She stepped back, still in guard position, and eyed him warily.

 

"Let's just say I'm taking my responsibilities seriously. I don't want my apprentice to make some of the same mistakes I made."

 

Jaina's lightsaber flashed forward, forcing him to parry. "What apprentice? You haven't beaten me yet."

 

"I will," he said with a cocky smile. "And we both know it."

Source: The New Jedi Order: Dark Journey

 

Showing that they again fought evenly, but this time you could see clearly that Jaina's confidence in being able to beat Kyp was shaken, but Kyp's never was. The "we both know it" line shows that again even without outside interference Kyp very well could have beaten Jaina.

 

Further spars with masters, specifically Luke.

 

 

 

"Funny." He advanced toward Kyp in mock menace. "Is this every Master for himself?"

 

Kyp shrugged and ignited his own lightsaber. "Might as well."

 

Luke heard snap-hisses as the other Masters lit their weapons. This friendly exercise would be horribly dangerous to anyone but a Jedi Master, but all of those present were so in tune with the Force and one another that the odds of a mishap were, as usual, almost nil.

 

Luke charged Kyp but then, well outside lightsaber strike range, skidded to an abrupt halt. Kyp's face had just enough time to register suspicion before Luke exerted himself through the Force, reaching upward to tree limbs that had grown out over the outpost. He yanked downward. A broad branch slapped down atop Kyp, bearing him to the landing pad surface and sending leaves swirling out all over the roof.

 

Kyp laughed and rolled free, coming up to his feet. "No fair."

 

"Tactical superiority is never fair.'"

 

"I mean, getting leaves and bugs in my hair."

 

Luke felt the approach of Cilghal from behind. He leapt up and backward, inverting as he flew, and blocked the Mon Cal Master's strike with his blade in passing. He landed behind her. A few meters away, Saba Sebatyne and Corran Horn dueled, each adopting a traditional, formalized lightsaber posture-Saba using a lightsaber in each hand, Corran with his own weapon adjusted to its second setting, its blade now three meters in length and a brilliant Purple instead of its usual silver. Octa Ramis, who had sup-plied Saba with her second weapon, was content to stand off to one side, using the Force to hurl stones, plucked from the ground far below, through the tumult of practicing Masters. Kyle Katarn stood near her, watching all the others, practicing ritualized sword forms and waiting for an opponent to come open.

 

Kyp advanced against Luke again, striking at Luke's ankles while Cilghal engaged the Grand Master's blade. Luke danced over the low strike and put a foot into Cilghal's torso, more of a push than a kick, before landing again. The Mon Cal staggered back a few steps, offering a nod of appreciation.

 

Kyp threw a succession of fast blows at Luke's shoulders, occupying him while Cilghal recovered. "Actually, it's a plan for a mission against Jacen. A capture-or-neutralize, "he said, his lightsaber flashing at Luke.

 

"Neutralize." Luke frowned. He circled Kyp, trying to put him in the middle of their three-way exchange, but Cilghal paced him so that Luke remained in the center. "Meaning 'kill.' "

 

Kyp nodded, not repentant. "This isn't a mission of assassination, Luke. But if the capture isn't clean, if the choice is to run away and leave him in charge of the Alliance or finish him then and there ..."

 

"Yeah." Luke felt Cilghal's approach behind him. He bent over backward, his lightsaber hand coming down on the landing pad surface to hold his upper body clear of it, and Cilghal's lightsaber passed through where his waist would have been. Luke instantly straightened, catching her hilt with his free hand, and stepped away, her lightsaber now in his grip. He twirled one blade at each Master. "Go on."

 

With an exasperated sigh, Cilghal stepped back and exerted herself toward Kyle. The man's lightsaber leapt free from his grip and flew to Cilghal's. Kyle offered no resistance. Cilghal caught it out of the air, called "Thank you," and dashed toward Corran.

 

Kyp looked dubiously at Luke's twin weapons and fell into a defensive posture. "The team will consist of one or two Masters, three or four Jedi Knights, and a native guide. They'll approach the Senate Building through the undercity." As Luke neared and began throwing probing attacks in quick succession, Kyp deflected them close to his body with equal speed and minimal movement. "When Jacen enters or leaves the building, they spring the trap. Coma gas and shock nets as the first wave, the Jedi making their direct assault immediately afterward." He stopped to stare intently at Luke.

 

Luke felt the attack-the Force, propelling numerous small objects at him. He jumped back and brought up both lightsabers as a shower of old nuts and bolts came at him with missile speed. It was like defending himself against Yuuzhan Vong thud bugs for the first time in years, but the old skill was undiminished-he calculated which objects had a chance of hitting him and incinerated only them with his blades, letting the others fly harmlessly past.

 

The trouble was, the ones that flew past soon curved around for another attack.

 

Meanwhile, Kyp continued, "We have a shuttle or other enclosed vehicle land for a quick extraction. But the trick is, it's an empty droid vehicle. Our group, with Jacen, their captive, actually reenters the undercity through a ground-side maintenance access hatch modified to serve as an exit. While the shuttle makes its escape run and draws off pursuit, our group goes back the way it came to the true departure point."

 

"Who's the team leader?"

 

Kyp shrugged. "Not determined yet."

 

Corran's and Kyle's voices rose simultaneously: "Me."

 

Luke, thoughtful, finished incinerating the last of the flying bolts. He switched off Cilghal's lightsaber and tossed it over his shoulder. He heard it slap down into her big webbed hand. "What about your native guide? Someone to get you through the undercity, I'm guessing. Do you trust him?"

 

Kyp nodded.

 

"Not as far as I can throw her." That was Corran, his voice punctuated by zaps as Saba advanced on him, trying to bat his longer blade aside.

 

Kyp made a sour face. "Horn, you can't throw anybody any distance. With the Force, anyway. This calls your judgment into question."

 

"Her." Luke switched off his lightsaber. "Maybe I should meet her."

 

Kyp deactivated his own weapon. "She's one level down. I can have her come up if you want to meet her now."

 

Source: Legacy of the Force: Fury

 

 

Again it should be noted its "every master for themselves" so Cihlgal is no more on Kyp's side then Luke is.

 

 

There is much much more to Kyp durron, but I want to save those for Mentalities, combat styles, team work and terrain. For now I am moving on to Streen.

 

 

Streen.

 

 

there is the belief again that Streen is only really gifted with Alter enviroment but again I wish to dash these rumors.

 

Telepathy/ Empathy.

 

Many remember Streen was gifted with Alter Enviroment, but what It appears most forget is the reason he was a recluse was not because he caused wind storms or anything, but because he couldnt STOP hearing peoples thoughts, or their feelings. unless the person KNEW how to shield their minds like a Jedi Master he could hear their every thought and feeling with out training, with out control. Showing that he was an extremely gifted Telepath.

 

If you teach me how to use this... sense I have--can you also teach me how to switch it off? I want to learn how not to feel the people around me, not to be bombarded by their moods and prying thoughts and sour ideas. I'm tired of having only rawwks for company. I'd very much like to be part of the human race again."

 

Source: Jedi Search

 

Telekinetics

on multiple occassions we can see Streen's masterful percision with his Telekinetic capabilities. such as when he levitates from high up, or deflects Lava while fighting the Leviathan. http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4612754 Other times is when he along with several of Luke's early students hurled Rocks at Tie fighters attacking the Yavin Temple.

 

When Ti began to use the Force to fling rubble at the attacking TIE fighters, Streen and the other trainees followed her example to defend themselves

Taken from Wookie.

 

Most of this was as a padawaan or barely as a Knight. To say nothing of his career as a Jedi Master. Luke trusted him as a master enough to leave the Praxeum in his charge for a time.

 

"I can no longer do this work. And the work I have to do cannot be done here."

"Then it's time for you to leave, past time, I think, now that I understand why you've been pulling away from us. And I will not ask where you are going."

"Thank you, do you accept the burden I have offered you?"

"Yes, I accept it. I free you in good conscience from your duties. I will carry this weight now. Though I don't feel ready."

―Luke Skywalker appoints Streen to lead the Praxeum

Something Luke would never have done unless the person was capable.

 

He was one of the few people who had a lightsaber on him during the Praxeum and was charged with defending and teaching Students. Further as the quote in Kyp's duel with Luke shows a "free for all" jedi Master style game would likely have been dangerous for any none Jedi Master, showing that to BE a jedi Master in Luke's academy a certain level of Saber skill is required.

 

Further streen has fought and defeated Vong Warriors

"I engaged the Yuuzhan Vong, as well, and could not sense them in the Force. They seem disconnected or shielded from it."

"If they are not connected with the Force, how can they be alive?"

"That's an excellent question, Streen. I have no answer for you. I just don't know."

―Luke Skywalker and Streen[src]

 

, something that would have been incredibly difficult for him with out sword skills, as prior he could use his fantastic empathy and telepathy skills as well as Masterful Precognitive abilities.

"Tell me, Streen—how do you know when a gas layer is going to rise? Where do you get your information?"

 

"I just…know. I can't explain it."

 

"Everyone can use the Force to some extent, but a few have a stronger innate talent. When I form my Jedi academy, I want to work most closely with those who already have the talent but don't know how to use it. Gantoris is one of my candidates. I think you should be another one."

 

Source: Jedi Search

with out training.

 

 

But while those all show skill in his force abilites, (or power for telepathy) what truly DOES show power is his Alter enviroment feats... So here is a few for you to enjoy.

 

Streen!

 

The old Bespin hermit stood on the outskirts of the storm with his brown Jedi robe flapping around him. His wild gray hair writhed around his head as if charged with static. His lips mumbled something incomprehensible, and his eyes remained closed as if he were having a nightmare. Leia knew that even powerful Jedi could not manipulate large-scale phenomena like the weather; but they could move objects, and she realized that was what Streen did now. Not changing the weather, but simply moving the air, drawing it in from all directions, creating a self-contained but destructive tornado that struck toward Luke's body.

 

"No!" she shouted into the starving wind.

 

"Streen!"

 

The cyclone struck Luke, buffeted his body, and lifted it into the air.

 

Leia ran toward her paralyzed brother, feet barely touching the ground as the powerful winds knocked her sideways. The storm wrenched her off balance, and she found herself thrown through the air, flying like an insect toward the stone walls. She spun around and reached out, calming herself enough to use her own abilities with the Force, to nudge her body away. Instead of being crushed against the stone blocks, she slid softly to the floor.

 

Luke's body continued rising, tugged upward by the hurricane. His Jedi robe wound around him as the winds spun him like a corpse launched out of a star-freighter air lock into the grave of space.

 

Streen didn't seem aware of what he was doing.

 

Leia staggered to her feet again and jumped. This time she rode the circling air currents, flying around the fringe of the cyclone toward her helpless brother. She reached out to grab the tail of his robe, felt her fingers clutch rough fabric, and then burn as the robe was snatched away from her. She fell back to the floor.

 

Luke had been drawn up into the tornado's mouth, rising toward the skylights.

 

"Luke!" she cried. "Please help me."

 

She had no idea if he could hear her, or if he could do anything.

 

Gathering strength in her leg muscles, she leaped into the air again. It might be possible to use her Jedi skills of levitation for a brief moment; Luke had done it several times, although she herself had never mastered the skill.

 

Now, though, it mattered more than it ever had before. As Leia sprang upward, the wind caught her. She rose high enough to grab Luke's body. She wrapped her arms around his waist, twisted her legs around his ankles, holding him, hoping her weight would drag him down.

 

But as they started to drop, the winds picked up in intensity, howling and roaring. Leia's skin went numb from the blinding wintry cold. They shot toward the roof of the grand audience chamber, toward the widest skylight, where jagged icicles hung like javelins.

 

Leia suddenly knew what Streen intended to do to them, whether consciously or unconsciously. They would be sucked out of the Great Temple, tossed high into the sky, and then allowed to crash thousands of feet to the spear-pointed branches of the jungle canopy.

 

The turbolift door opened. Kirana Ti charged out, followed by Tionne and Kam Solusar.

 

"Stop Streen!" Leia shouted.

 

Kirana Ti reacted instantly. She wore thin but supple red armor from the scaled hides of reptiles from Dathomir. She had been a warrior on her own world, fighting with untrained and unhoned skill in the Force, but she had also fought in physical combat as well.

 

Kirana Ti launched herself forward on long, muscular legs, ducking her head as she charged into the cyclonic wind that surrounded Streen. The old hermit stood entranced, spinning slowly around with his arms dangling at his sides and his fingertips spread apart, as if trying to catch something.

 

Kirana Ti staggered as she hit the wind, but she wrenched her head aside, spread her legs, and dug the toes of her bare feet against the stone floor for traction. She shoved forward into the wind and finally shattered through into the dead zone of the storm. She tackled Streen to the flagstoned floor and locked his arms behind his back. Streen cried out, then blinked his eyes open. He looked wildly around in confusion. Instantly the wind stopped blowing. The air fell still. High up at the ceiling of the grand audience chamber Leia and Luke plunged toward the unforgiving flagstones below. Luke fell like a doll, and Leia tried to remember how to use her levitation skills, but her mind went blank with panic.

 

Tionne and Kam Solusar raced forward, stretching out their arms, using what they had been taught. Less than a meter above the crushing stones, Leia found herself slowed, pausing in the air beside Luke's body. They drifted gently to the floor. Leia cradled Luke against her, but her brother did not respond.

 

Source: Champions of the Force

 

 

Creating a powerful Tornado... INSIDE A BUILDING, as a padawaan.

 

Streen heard the blood sing in his ears as his body strained for oxygen. The rushing sound reminded him of blowing wind, gale-force storms. Wind. Air. He grasped the wind with his Jedi powers, moving the air itself and making it flow into his lungs, past Kun's invisible stranglehold. Cool, sweet oxygen filled him, and Streen exhaled and inhaled again.

 

Reaching out with his power, he did the same for all the other Jedi students, nudging air into their the lungs-helping them breathe, helping them grow stronger.

 

Source: Champions of the Force

 

Stopping Telekinetic based attacks by using wind, in this case rushing air back into his lungs AS WELL as the lungs of his allies. Now if he is able to put air in... what's stopping him from taking it out?

 

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4612755

 

Suffice to say we have incredibly strong alter enviroment. "the storm is his ally"

 

 

 

 

Leia Organa Solo.

 

 

 

First saber skill. After defeating Aleema Rar, Saba considered Leia the match of any Jedi in Lightsaber combat. Aleema Rar's skills were enough that she was capable of defeating or fighting evenly with all except the top masters of Lightsaber combat. By defeating her multiple times Leia proved herself to be one of those top level masters.

 

Her abilities with mind tricks are, as far as I can tell, second to none. Capable of tricking a mind that even Luke failed to do so against, even IN combat again with Aleema Rar. Further if you want more accolades for her.

 

Yammosks could detect the Force, and Kyp maintained that Leia was as strong in the Force as he was. Han was not at all eased by the explanation.

 

Source: The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force

 

Obviously coming from Kyp this is extremely high praise, and not to surprising as the Daughter of the chosen one.

 

Some Tk feats..

 

Leia reached back and caught one of the last standing Unu soldiers in a Force grasp, then brought her arm forward and hurled the insect sideways down the corridor. She followed a few steps behind, using its body as a shield, listening to shatter gun pellets drum into its carapace.

 

Source: Dark Nest II: The Unseen Queen

 

"Stang!" the older one said. "She's-"

 

Leia swept her arm in their direction, using the Force to jerk both guards forward. She slammed them into the blast door, then dropped them across the threshold so the cell block could not be sealed off without crushing them.

 

The older man, a grizzled human sergeant, snapped the comlink out of his sleeve pocket. His companion, a Duros with smooth blue skin and red eyes bulging in alarm, made the mistake of reaching for his blaster.

 

Leia reached out with the Force and slammed his head into the wall, then summoned the blaster from his open holster. By the time she got the muzzle pointed in the sergeant's direction, he was raising the comlink to his lips.

 

Source: Dark Nest II: The Unseen Queen

 

Leia signaled the others to be ready, then used the Force to create a loud creak in the storage gantries directly above the security platoon. The troops immediately looked up, already suspicious enough to raise their charric rifles.

 

Leia Force-grabbed a clawcraft hanging over their heads and began to swing it back and forth. The troops immediately began to back away from the Falcon-until their female officer started barking commands at them. In the next moment the officer was sliding across the deck with her arms flailing, still screeching orders in a panicked voice and gesturing at the gantries.

 

Source: Dark Nest III: The Swarm War

 

Suffice to say much much more, I do not desire quoting respect threads entirety when I can just link you to them if that is needed. Or give you guys the Wookie pages.

 

She is extremely fast and extremely strong.

 

 

Leia shot her free hand up between its mandibles, catching the proboscis between two fingers and continuing to shove until it snapped.

 

Source: Dark Nest II: The Unseen Queen

 

That's 2 fingers people. proboscis: (in many insects) an elongated sucking mouthpart that is typically tubular and flexible. basically its meant to be able to stretch to a degree... and 2 fingers snaps it.... OW....

 

Leia caught up to the rear of the group and launched herself into a whirling lightsaber attack, cloaking herself behind a basket of sapphire light and batting blaster bolts back toward their source.

 

Source: Legacy of the Force: Tempest

 

Showing not only speed, but Percision in that speed.

 

And again so much more...

 

 

 

Finally the last member of my team K'kruhk.

 

 

For this one. I think I AM just going to link you guys else where. I have just been reading up on this guy and had the pleasure of stumbling onto him while trying to find a replacement for quigon. A survivor, a man that can have the odds stacked against him and come out on top. Some one that could utilize the enviroment and the advantages my other members could create for him. I never expected to find this gem of a Jedi Master.

 

http://www.starwarsreport.com/2013/04/23/kkruhk-a-jedi-every-star-wars-fan-should-know/

 

Not to mention... he has a pretty sweet hat http://darth.wikia.com/wiki/K'Kruhk, that alone solo's man. (seriously I will cover more of K'kruhk with the team aspect of my stuff)

 

[raandomname]

Terrain:

 

As I said previously Im not to familiar with the battle ground, but I still think that there are several ways in which my team would benefit from it.

1. There obviously is lots of stone and rubble for Jadus to throw around.

2. When we look at the battle of Hypori, terrain like this seems to be right up Grievous' alley. He has learnt from Dooku that having suprise, fear and intimidation on his side is crucial when going up against high level Jedi and this is exactly what he will do: hide in the rubble and attack from the shadows.

3. Confined spaces are always a benefit for the numerically inferior team and this will greatly help my combatants when engaging in light saber combat.

4. I believe that an effective tactic would be for the Wrath to frontally attack the Jedi, perhaps Jadus could force the Jedi into a confined area with his overwhelming telekinesis. The Wrath then uses the confined area to not engage more then 2 Jedi at once. Grievous waits in the shadows using his combat analysis computer to analyse his opponent's fighting style and to then attack suprisingly, possibly taking out one of the Jedi before they can even respond. Meanwhile Jadus uses his teleportation to change position, either suprisingly attacking in melee range or to take a new position to further bombard the fighting Jedi.

[tunewalker]

Team work/ Mentality

 

Unlike when Star tried it, my team has 4 people all of them skilled in telepathy and Leia knows Force Meld as her and Saba did it together on one occassion. Kyp and Streen have worked together, and K'kruhk has worked along side all kinds of jedi Masters through out the ages Kyp, Streen and Leia included. Also since there is a suggestion that you normally need at least 3 people to hold it together it lends credance to her knowing Battle Meditation, as she was able to empower even singular individuals.

 

Further this is a 4v2 fight... yes you heard me right its not 4v3, its 4v2 because of General Grievous and Kyp Durron. General Greivous has absolutely no defense against Kyp Durron's Telekinetic Kill. He can just crush Greivous where he stands and he will do exactly that before the fight even starts. Kyp Durron has shown on several occassions, between his duel with Luke or when he tossed Corran horn over his shoulder with a flick of his wrist, if you are lacking some where in the force, be it saber combat or TK he will absolutely dominate you in that field and shows a great amount of disrespect for that opponent. (nearly cutting down Cihgal basically treating her as if she wasnt even there in his fight with Luke for another example) As we see with his other tactical displays and his conversation with Luke he is fairly cut throat and sees things still in a very black and white manner and still takes a very Direct approach to solving problems. There is no reason he would allow Greivous to engage on his terms, and any battle where greivous could not fight on his terms he has lost or had to flee. In this case he has no droids to help him out he will be dead before he can get away.

 

Further on Kyp Durron's Mentality/ strategic mind. Kyp was the inventor of the shadow bomb technique and used a Frieghter as a weapon mid battle. His fight with luke also see's him using TK to attempt to off-balance the Jedi Grand Master even while Luke wielded 2 sabers. all of this shows that Kyp is inventive, he is capable of using hte force in new and interesting ways on the fly to create a more suitable situation for him and his allies.

 

Leia strategically was one of the head of the Rebel Alliance, utilizing terrain, strategic retreats, was something she was known to be masterful at doing, she was also an accomplished hand to hand fighter and marksman, should she need to she has an incredibly diverse skill set at her disposal, in addition we have seen her Force Meld in action allowing her and Saba to never intersect blades, to never get in each others way. And that's the primary form of defense any opponent normally has against a 2v1 battle is allowing the 2 combatants to get in each others way. With that being out 2v1's become nearly impossible let alone the prospect of the possible 3v1.

 

Streen, do I need to say how he utilizes terrain. Well again he is known for trying to off balance his opponent before the fight even starts with alter enviroment. Other times he would along some other students, preform hit and run tactics against opponents that he ran into.

 

K'khruk A veteran of more wars then any one here, and a Jedi Grand master, he has matched opponents styles such as Ventress as a younger Jedi knight, though he didnt do well, and against general Grievous on Ossus he was the only master Grievous had to use trickery to beat, and this is still all before Legacy era where he was much more powerful as the grand master of the order. He has used TK strong enough to drop freighters to keep his charges safe, and utilized terrain and survival skills to do that through the dark times and all the way through surviving even the One Sith. He is ALSO a skilled marksman and hand to hand combatant, again bringing diversity to my teams capabilities.

 

With all of these mentalities combined into one using Force Meld this team is going to have extremely strong synergy as well as tactical prowess the inventive ideas these 4 can come up with together can easily out match anything the opposition is bringing to the table.

 

Further not one of my opponents is known for "playing well" with others. Grievous was always a rival to Ventress and not a real team player. He was dispatched with droids on his own, never as a team member with other saber duelists. Even if he enters the fight its highly likely his lack of force sensitivity with his blades could make him just as much a danger to his new allies as it is to his enemies. Jadus, has 0 feats that I know of him working with some one, and further more most of the "feats and accolades" he DOES have either has to do with his control of imperial intelligence (the council members knowing he is playing a large game and being cautious) and seem less to do with his actual force power. Further most of the "force power accolades" come from non-force sensitives, which are people who are KNOWN for misunderstanding the force and seeing Sith Teleport when in fact they are just moving very fast, or thinking they are super powerful just because that is the one they see most often, thus the one they have seen do the most impressive stuff, but that doesnt make it at all accurate. Same with the Wrath, most of his opponents dont have many feats to back them up, further most of the "powerful" portions of his opponents such as some of the Jedi could be seen as their intelligence services. Again both Barus and the Jedi opposite to Barus were known for having wide influence and that INFLUENCE is what made them powerful not the force, there is nothing really showing Karr as all that impressive from what I could see. Even defeating Barus was when Barus was a padawaan, and Barus's master as far as I could tell was weak by comparison. Needless to say none of my characters are as weak as the opponents the Wrath or Jadus have faced, and while Greivous faced K'khruk that was far before his prime, and the last time he faced some one like Kyp Durron this is how the fight went

[tunewalker]

Terrain.

 

I was planing on saving this but I figured it was about time.

 

 

First, this is NOT close quarters. This is the RUINS of the jedi enclave, basically that means we are on wide open plains with a bunch of rubble around. Leia used to have a base here, and the Jedi had an enclave here, every one in my group is intimately familiar with these grounds.

 

Further the rubble is vastly more useful to my team, as we have seen Kyp durron use this type of stuff all the time, the lack of any wind breaks or limited shelter means Streens alter enviroment is just going to be boosted here, the wind already kicks, kicking it up just a little more for him is going to be childs play further with his levitation we know he has precision TK so that + high powered winds= stones that shatter bones like cheap glass being thrown at his opponent, Hell the strength of the wind has been shown to cause TK to be difficult to do as is they may throw a stone at him, but the wind is just going to kick it back. K'kruhk during the dark times used terrain such as this and others all the time, and with the wind kicking up cooling things down its going to be even better for him as he likes it cooler. Of course Leia has shown herself to be proficient and be able to abuse all kinds of terrain this is no different and with allies changing it in her favor FOR her its going to be even easier.

 

Further the open space is going to give all of the saber duelists plenty of room to maneuver. Something that will DECIMATE the Second emperor's Wrath in that heavy armor. When not wearing heavy armor he prefers fast paced acrobatic forms and duel weilding this tells me that the armor is heavy... as in encombering. Even in the description of the duel wielding AC it talks about how he can stay mobile in Medium armor, which suggests that the heavy armor is the only thing preventing the wrath from using those more acrobatic forms. Also if you look into his specializations you can see he is most often using physical strikes during Soresu, and with Shien he uses heavy strikes with "ravage" showing his preference for power blows here, but his preference for speed blows with out the heavy armor suggests that the reason he goes for power blows in heavy armor is he is abusing the heavy armors weight. All of this points to being encombered while in heavy armor (they call it "heavy" for a reason) and in this open field with winds that can pick him up and throw him or rubble being thrown at him against any of hte opponents here (especially Kyp or Leia) who have shown to be absolute speed demons and he is never going to be able to lock them down or land even a moderately accurate hit.

 

Finally as I said this is a 4v2, but that doesnt mean it breaks into 2, 2v1 battles the most likely break down is going to be Greivous curshed and destroyed and then it breaks down to 3v1 against Jadus while Leia avoids and plays keep away with The Wrath. The 3v1 is actually a 2v1 with Streen using alter enviroment and Tk to constantly throw Jadus off balance, and with Force Meld K'kruhk and Kyp will be in perfect syncronicity, K'kruhk dealing his power blows followed by extremely precise speed attacks by Kyp, Normally Jadus MIGHT be able to defend against it for a short time, but with the meld the syncronised attack is going to be far to much for him to handle from these 2 jedi masters.

Edited July 12, 2015 by tunewalker

[cs_zoltan]

"He must have been trained by Count Dooku," Mace had said, "so you can expect Makashi as well; given the number of Jedi he has fought and slain, you must expect that he can attack in any style, or all of them. In fact, Obi-Wan, I believe that of all living Jedi, you have the best chance to defeat him."

 

All living Jedi. That includes Yoda, Mace Windu, Shaak Ti, Anakin Skywalker. I doubt it's that easy for Kyp to BFR and/or kill Grievous as you say.

[tunewalker]

All living Jedi. That includes Yoda, Mace Windu, Shaak Ti, Anakin Skywalker. I doubt it's that easy for Kyp to BFR and/or kill Grievous as you say.

 

Nothing to do with his saber skills.

 

 

 

he has no force powers, and Kyp is capable of moving black holes, and one of his known powers is TK KILL he has thrown FRIENDS who lack Tk over his shoulder because they lacked Tk and he didnt even need to erect barriers to defend against retaliation. If Greivous can not respond to Kyp's Force powers it doesnt matter how good his saber skill is, Kyp will kill him out right with the force powers before he can say... "that's not .... F....a..i...r..."

 

"Tactical superiority is never fair.'"

Source: Legacy of the Force: Fury

Edited July 12, 2015 by tunewalker

[cs_zoltan]

I'm not gona make an argument, but are you saying that Windu or Yoda couldn't TK Grievous, but Kyp can?

[tunewalker]

I'm not gona make an argument, but are you saying that Windu or Yoda couldn't TK Grievous, but Kyp can?

 

Windu did, and its not a question of can, but will. Yoda could, but he was needed at the wookies. Windu was needed at home with the whole "sensing a plot" my mind was they just werent talking about each other, and considering they were talking sword combat there they may not have been refering to those that take him down with Force powers any way. Not to mention the whole "knowledge and defense, never attack" that A LOT of jedi fell under in those days. It was a question of "will or wont" rather then "can or cant' and Kyp WILL.... Not that he needs to, considering his power before training was compared to Obi-wan's and YODA's already, as a master Kyp> Obi-wan, but that's just my opinion and is no more correct then any one elses.

 

Edit: when's the last time we saw any one but Luke move a black hole.. oh right when Kyp did it, his TK may very well be better then Yoda's. That's why he is considered a "force specialist" when points came in, cus his TK is insane, I think people just forgot that he was ALSO crazy fast and a master duelist.

Edited July 12, 2015 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

One more thing with terrain and streen. There are lots of wild beasts in this area, and Streen knowns Beast control, he used it with out training, but as a master he would know the technique with ease.

 

 

Edit: just a reminder.... http://darth.wikia.com/wiki/K'Kruhk Beware the hat.... I havent even begun argueing the powers of K'kruhk's hat yet.

Edited July 12, 2015 by tunewalker

[cs_zoltan]

Windu did, and its not a question of can, but will. Yoda could, but he was needed at the wookies. Windu was needed at home with the whole "sensing a plot" my mind was they just werent talking about each other, and considering they were talking sword combat there they may not have been refering to those that take him down with Force powers any way. Not to mention the whole "knowledge and defense, never attack" that A LOT of jedi fell under in those days. It was a question of "will or wont" rather then "can or cant' and Kyp WILL.... Not that he needs to, considering his power before training was compared to Obi-wans already, as a master Kyp> Obi-wan, but that's just my opinion and is no more correct then any one elses.

 

I'm sorry, but I just can't ignore this, this is so wrong, so very wrong. Jedi are not forbidden to use TK, lot's of jedi use it in combat. They even use more...extreme measures if necessary. Like Windu's Force Crush or Ti's Kinetite. Further more Grievous was the last person standing who prevented peace, you know the ultimate goal of the jedi, I doubt anyone would've had a problem using any means necessary to eliminate him.

 

"But surely, Master Windu," Obi-Wan had said, "you, with the power of Vaapad—or Yoda's mastery of Ataro—"

 

Yoda's and Windu's supposed busyness had nothing to do with that quote. And as you said Windu had already used Force Crush on Grievous yet he thought Obi-Wan was better fitted. Yoda also not shy to use TK.

Example 1, example 2.

So we have 2 jedi who is stronger than Obi-Wan, who is a better duelist than Obi-Wan, who would use TK if necessary, yet deemed worse to face Grievous. Also they are both stronger and better duelists than Kyp too...

 

All I'm saying is don't underestimate Grievous.

 

But now I'm really done, the rest is up to you Random.

Edited July 12, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[raandomname]

1. If you look at the picture of the ruins, you can still very much see that there is a building there. This isnt just a plain with some rubble on it. And Id expect that the actual fught will take place inside of whats left of the building, which if the picture is anything to go by, is still rather intact, although Sel should probably specify where exactly in the ruins the fight will take place.

2. As for gibbing Grievous the problems with that are:

a) Kyp will be busy keeping up with Jadus' telekinetic assault, while Jadus will obviously not be able to dominate, I am still sure that he will at least be able to keep Kyp occupied enough for him to not be able to just destroy Grievous.

b) If the battle ground is anything like I imagine it to be, Grievous will be hiding and out of line of sight.

c) Grievous has shown the ability to dodge telekinetic blasts.

d) While Windu's tk wounded Grievous he was still able to recover to the point that he was able to fight again not much later.

e) Grievous has endured lots of other things including telekinetic assaults, for example having a STAP smashed into him by tk. He has also survived city busting explosions and having lightsabers ramed into his back. He has also shown the ability to quickly recover from being ragdolled. When Durge punched him hard enough to send him flying several meters backwards and into pillars and statues, he still got up again and fought on as if nothing had happened.

f) If Grievous was so easy to destroy with the force, why has none of the at least 100 Jedi he faced and killed done it. Of course many of these would have been padawans or low level knights, but at least a few of them should have been able to do what you described. Furthermore, there really was quite the line-up at Hypori, yet none of the Jedi there did it.

[cs_zoltan]

although Sel should probably specify where exactly in the ruins the fight will take place.

Combatants start on either side of the ruined Jedi Council Chamber.

 

Doesn't mean you can't move the fight elsewhere after it began and if the opponents are willing to follow.

Edited July 12, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[cs_zoltan]

Also Random since you haven't played kotor2, this is the relevant part:

[tunewalker]

I'm sorry, but I just can't ignore this, this is so wrong, so very wrong. Jedi are not forbidden to use TK, lot's of jedi use it in combat. They even use more...extreme measures if necessary. Like Windu's Force Crush or Ti's Kinetite. Further more Grievous was the last person standing who prevented peace, you know the ultimate goal of the jedi, I doubt anyone would've had a problem using any means necessary to eliminate him.

 

 

 

Yoda's and Windu's supposed busyness had nothing to do with that quote. And as you said Windu had already used Force Crush on Grievous yet he thought Obi-Wan was better fitted. Yoda also not shy to use TK.

Example 1, example 2.

So we have 2 jedi who is stronger than Obi-Wan, who is a better duelist than Obi-Wan, who would use TK if necessary, yet deemed worse to face Grievous. Also they are both stronger and better duelists than Kyp too...

 

All I'm saying is don't underestimate Grievous.

 

But now I'm really done, the rest is up to you Random.

 

Not forbidden, but how many chose to even though they could? Not many look at Quigon and so many others. There are very few that used large scale powers in combat. You know what else had 0 to do with that quote... Force powers... He didnt say "beware of his hard armor, that's difficult to crush" or any of the like he talked about sword skills so in this case "obi-wan is the best to combat him... saber to saber" as the conversation had 0 to do with force powers.

[cs_zoltan]

Not forbidden, but how many chose to even though they could? Not many look at Quigon and so many others. There are very few that used large scale powers in combat. You know what else had 0 to do with that quote... Force powers... He didnt say "beware of his hard armor, that's difficult to crush" or any of the like he talked about sword skills so in this case "obi-wan is the best to combat him... saber to saber" as the conversation had 0 to do with force powers.

 

I believe that of all living Jedi, you have the best chance to defeat him.

 

I don't see the part where Windu specified lightsaber duel...

[tunewalker]

1. If you look at the picture of the ruins, you can still very much see that there is a building there. This isnt just a plain with some rubble on it. And Id expect that the actual fught will take place inside of whats left of the building, which if the picture is anything to go by, is still rather intact, although Sel should probably specify where exactly in the ruins the fight will take place.

2. As for gibbing Grievous the problems with that are:

a) Kyp will be busy keeping up with Jadus' telekinetic assault, while Jadus will obviously not be able to dominate, I am still sure that he will at least be able to keep Kyp occupied enough for him to not be able to just destroy Grievous.

b) If the battle ground is anything like I imagine it to be, Grievous will be hiding and out of line of sight.

c) Grievous has shown the ability to dodge telekinetic blasts.

d) While Windu's tk wounded Grievous he was still able to recover to the point that he was able to fight again not much later.

e) Grievous has endured lots of other things including telekinetic assaults, for example having a STAP smashed into him by tk. He has also survived city busting explosions and having lightsabers ramed into his back. He has also shown the ability to quickly recover from being ragdolled. When Durge punched him hard enough to send him flying several meters backwards and into pillars and statues, he still got up again and fought on as if nothing had happened.

f) If Grievous was so easy to destroy with the force, why has none of the at least 100 Jedi he faced and killed done it. Of course many of these would have been padawans or low level knights, but at least a few of them should have been able to do what you described. Furthermore, there really was quite the line-up at Hypori, yet none of the Jedi there did it.

 

1. That picture isnt of the RUINS, it is of the enclave itself as far as I can tell.

 

2.

a. leia, K'kruhk and Streen are all more then capable of any of that, Kyp is free to act.

b. Every one starts in LoS, and Kyp is able to sense VOIDS... IE when nothing is htere (black holes) a robot man is not a problem.

c. Blasts, not crushes or kills (again TK KILL is one of Kyp's listed abilities as is drain Life... so he can just drain the life out of greivous if TK doesnt work.) again as shown here

d. After running away, with the help of a ship and droids, something he doesnt have here. again see Life drain if TK KILL isnt enough

e. Metal bodies do that, you know what he hasnt recovered from, being shot in the chest... you know there are 2 trained marksmens on my team should TK KILL (again emphasising this word for a reason, this isnt a simply "blast of tk energy" this is a strangle hold on the person's life. TK taking a hold of them and squeezing htem TO DEATH.

f. Multiple reasons.

1. Few Jedi used their force powers in combat, not because they couldnt or were in any way forbidden from doing so, they just CHOSE not to out of combat with saber duelist habits, Kyp wont make that choice.

2. Windu did it and it was still successful

3. its not that easy, but this isnt a weak master we are talking about here, we are talking about a guy who's Tk hasnt been matched by any one save Luke, the most powerful Force user in star wars history.

[tunewalker]

I don't see the part where Windu specified lightsaber duel...

 

"He must have been trained by Count Dooku," Mace had said, "so you can expect Makashi as well; given the number of Jedi he has fought and slain, you must expect that he can attack in any style, or all of them. In fact, Obi-Wan, I believe that of all living Jedi, you have the best chance to defeat him."

 

I fail to see the spot where he even gives a nod TO ANY Force powers. Please point it out to me when you get a chance.

Edited July 12, 2015 by tunewalker

[raandomname]

As for the Wrath being encumbered by his armor, no offense but this is something that I honestly think is bs. The Wrath still moves as fast as a Juggernaught as he does as a Marauder and uses many of the same abilities. I havent analysed the animations ofc, but at least to me they seem to be similarly fast. Both ACs also use Shi-Cho.

As someone who is very interested in medieval warfare, I in general hate the argument that heavy armor significantly encumbers the user, because it just doesnt. If it does then it is either designed for a specific purpose in which protection is more important then mobility or it is just badly made. Really its quite obvious, when you are fighting your enemy, you dont want to also fight your own armor at the same time. There is a video on youtube that Ill try to find in which guys in complete plate armor do a parcour course, although they have almost no experience with the armor.

[cs_zoltan]

I fail to see the spot where he even gives a nod TO ANY Force powers. Please point it out to me when you get a chance.

 

So what? I also don't see him saying "Oh btw Obi, don't use ANY force powers. I forbid you. No, I'm serious, don't you *********** dare. The Council demands you to defeat him in pure lightsaber duel. The Masters of the Order taught you the ways of the Force only so you can forget all about it in the duel that will end this war. Usually the Force is your ally...but not this time. If you will even think about TKing him we will expel you from the Order."

[Aurbere]

So what? I also don't see him saying "Oh btw Obi, don't use ANY force powers. I forbid you. No, I'm serious, don't you *********** dare. The Council demands you to defeat him in pure lightsaber duel. The Masters of the Order taught you the ways of the Force only so you can forget all about it in the duel that will end this war. Usually the Force is your ally...but not this time. If you will even think about TKing him we will expel you from the Order."

 

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