SWTOR Duelling Tournament - Heats/Round 2C: Team Beniboybling vs Team LadyKulvax

[Aurbere]

“Who will be the winners? Who will be the corpses? Audience, place your bets!”

 

Team Beniboybling vs Team LadyKulvax

Count Dooku, Darth Maul & Savage Opress vs Anakin Skywalker, Meetra Surik & Aryn Leneer

 

Welcome to Round 2A of the Heats. For anyone new to the tournament, please look over the rules first before participating, and those who are familiar, you may which to remind yourselves of how it all works.

 

The Battleground: Death Star Throne Room

 

Combatants start several meters away from each other on the upper platform.

 

Battlefield Notes:

 

*Maul as of Revival

 

Rules of the Debate

 

 

1. Victory by killing, KO’ing or otherwise incapacitating all of the opposing team.
    
    
   
2. Combatants cannot hide or flee, though tactical retreats or attempts to lure the opponent are permitted.
    
    
   
3. Combatant morals and personality traits apply, however they are all ready and willing to kill their opponents.
    
    
   
4. Game mechanics are to be treated as canon, unless they exist purely for gameplay purposes.
    
    
   
5. All combatants are equipped with their standard arms and armament.
    
    
   
6. Combatants do not possess any prior knowledge of their opponents beyond what they already know. But they are aware of the names of their combatants which are announced immediately before the fight.
    
    
   
7. Any and all external Force nexuses or amplifiers are for the purposes of debate non-existent.
    
    
   
8. No flaming, trolling or aggressive debating, keep it chill people.
   

 

So without further ado, let the battle begin!

Edited July 18, 2015 by Aurbere

[Aurbere]

As should be obvious, I'm hosting this match. So long as things progress smoothly, there should be no problems.

[Beniboybling]

Alrighty, to start I’ll begin at the beginning, who vs who. Now I’m sure everyone is expect Anakin vs Dooku, right? A classic rivalry, in which Anakin comes out on top, right?

 

Well it isn’t going to happen.

 

Dooku engaged Anakin several times during the Clone Wars, he knows full well how dangerous he is to him, so much so that he brought along four elite Magnaguards as backup when attempting to trap and capture him on Naboo.

 

Simply put Dooku is going to avoid a 1 vs 1 engagement with Skywalker, and allow the Maul Brothers to deal with him instead. Himself taking on the Exile and Leneer in 2 vs 1 combat which he has repeatedly shown to excel in. Now of course Dooku has no guarantee that the Brothers will cooperate with his plan, but I believe they will. Maul and Savage work as a unit, something they do so very effectively, and as a unit they are very powerful, and therefore most likely to go for the strongest player on the field. Skywalker is arguably that player, an individual Maul himself should be aware of, perhaps even as the Chosen One, and will sense his tremendous power.

 

That said I’m not banking Dooku’s evasion of Anakin on the cooperation of the Maul Brothers alone, but on Dooku’s consummate skill as both a duellist and a strategist:

 

It must have been difficult for him to have served under a methodical master such as Dooku, consummate planner, consummate duelist.

 

--Taken from Labyrinth of Evil

 

He is a fencer. Leverage, position, advantage—they are as natural to him as breathing.

 

--Taken from Dark Rendezvous

Dooku is an extremely cunning strategist and duellist, easily the greatest master of Makashi in mythos, and so a savant when it comes to positioning, footwork and rhythm. Dooku will be in total control of the flow of the battle, and will ensure he ends up in the right place against the right opponent, off-balancing Anakin if need be and sending him the Maul Brothers’ in his direction. Dooku will ensure Anakin is ensnared, while he ends up as far away as possible.

 

Manipulating the battlefield is again Dooku’s forte, proof of concept being his initial engagement against Kenobi and Anakin aboard the Invisible Hand. The pair’s initial tactic was to hold back on their primary forms, Djem So and Soresu, in favour of Shien and Ataru, presumably to capitalise on the element of surprise when they unleashed them. They were nonetheless high level masters of these styles, and without their primary forms in use Dooku’s schools them:

"I'm twice the Jedi I was last time!"

 

Ah, Dooku thought. Such a fragile little ego. Sidious will have to help him with that. But until then-The grip of Skywalker's blade whistled through the air to meet his hand in perfect synchrony with a sweeping slash.

 

"My powers have doubled since we last met -"

 

"How lovely for you." Dooku neatly sidestepped, cutting at the boy's leg, yet Skywalker's blade met the cut as he passed and he managed to sweep his blade behind his head to slap aside the casual thrust Dooku aimed at the back of his neck - but his clumsy charge had put him in Kenobi's path, so that the Jedi Master had to Force-roll over his partner's head.

 

Directly at Dooku's upraised blade.

 

Kenobi drove a slash at the scarlet blade while he pivoted in the air, and again Dooku sidestepped so that now it was Kenobi in Skywalker's way.

 

"Really," Dooku said, "this is pathetic."

 

Oh, they were certainly energetic enough, leaping and whirling, raining blows almost at random, cutting chairs to pieces and Force-hurling them in every conceivable direction, while Dooku continued, in his gracefully methodical way, to out-manoeuvre them so thoroughly it was all he could to do keep from laughing out loud.

 

It was a simple matter of countering their tactics, which were depressingly straightforward; Skywalker was the swift one, whooshing here and there like a spastic hawk-bat-attempting a Jedi variant of neek-in-the-middle so they could come at him from both sides-while Kenobi came on in a measured Shii-Cho cadence, deliberate as a lumberdroid, moving step by step, cutting off the angles, clumsy but relentlessly dogged as he tried to chivvy Dooku into a corner.

 

Whereas all Dooku need do was to slip from one side to another-and occasionally flip over a head here and there-so that he could fight each of them in turn, rather than both of them at the same time. He supposed that in their own milieu, they might actually prove reasonably effective; it was clear that their style had been developed by fighting as a team against large numbers of opponents. They were not prepared to fight together against a single Force-user, certainly not one of Dooku's power; he, on the other hand, had always fought alone. It was laughably easy to keep the Jedi tripping and stumbling and getting in each other's way.

 

They didn't even comprehend how utterly he dominated the combat. Because they fought as they had been trained, by releasing all desire and allowing the Force to flow through them, they had no hope of countering Dooku's mastery of Sith techniques. They had learned nothing since he had bested them on Geonosis.

 

They allowed the Force to direct them; Dooku directed the Force.

 

He drew their strikes to his parries, and drove his own ripostes with thrusts of dark power that subtly altered the Jedi's balance and disrupted their timing. He could have slaughtered both of them as casually as that creature Maul had destroyed the vigos of the Black Sun.

 

--Taken from the Revenge of the Sith novelisation

Anakin might not be pulling any punches in this situation, but he’s no longer fighting alongside Kenobi, a duellist he achieved perfect synergy with, he’s fighting alongside alien allies with inferior skills whose style and strategies he knows nothing about. In fact, neither of them have every fought alongside each other.

 

Worse yet in Anakin and Leneer we have a pair of headstrong, aggressive duellists whose styles (Djem So and Ataru respectively) revolve around explosive, shoot-first-ask-questions-later, duelling tactics, the kind that has you rushing headlong into your opponent, and with a little clever positioning on Dooku’s part, into your ally instead.

 

Dooku can take this advantage one step further pushing for a 2 v 1 engagement where Anakin is forced to take turns in attacking Dooku with Leneer or the Exile, preventing Anakin from concerted, continuous offense while keeping both of his adversaries off-balanced as he has done against Kenobi & Anakin in the past.

 

Really it’s a question of who plays the battlefield better, Anakin with his direct and straightforward approach, which rarely involves any tactical foresight, or Dooku, a consummate strategist who readily outmanoeuvres and off-balances his opponents, wielding a form that emphasis leverage, advantage and position. Anakin is going to rush headlong into where Dooku expects, and exactly where he wants him to be.

 

The battlefield itself works pretty well in this respect, take a look at this cross section:

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fb/74/9b/fb749b190ce618f2040ed0b16453b41b.jpg

 

The arena can be split in several zones, the throne area, the lower level beneath it and the walkway/elevator area. The point being that Dooku can divide the duel between these zones, blocking and boxing in his opponents. For example if Anakin finds himself pushed into the walkway area by the Maul Brothers, his path to Dooku will be blocked, and likewise Dooku can position himself in the path to that zone to prevent anyone from assisting him. This strategy can be replicated for any one set of zones, as long as Dooku is successful in dividing his opponents between them.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Beniboybling

[LadyKulvax]

Meetra Surik

 

Lightsaber skill:

 

Meetra Surik is one of the highest among many Jedi whom due to numerous wars becomes a master combatant, a highly skilled duelist capable of combating Sith:

 

 

The many wars of this era compel large numbers of Jedi to become experts in lightsaber and Force-related combat. Some become masters on the battlefield; others become highly skilled duelists, able to battle dark Jedi and Sith in single combat.

-Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

 

 

Meetra Surik is tutored in the lightsaber combat forms Shii-Cho, Makashi & Soresu by the Sith Lord Darth Traya, in the guise of Kreia:

 

 

Shii-Cho: "It is simple, and it's simplicity is strength. It allows focus, a slightly improved chance of connecting with one's opponent. It has no other advantages or disadvantages - it is an effective form to fall back on when no other form will do."

-Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 

Makashi: "Ah -a technique that helps one resist the Force attacks of an enemy, and is also excellent for lightsaber combat. It does more damage, but it leaves you vulnerable to other attacks. Use it against others wielding the Force or lightsabers... but not against anyone else.

-Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 

Soresu: "A… defensive technique. But effective. Use it if you do not wish to be hit, or if you are facing many opponents with blasters. With a lightsaber blade and enough skill in deflection, it is an excellent offense against blasters, but in other situations, it merely delays the inevitable."

-Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 

 

Through training with Visas Marr and Kreia, Meetra Surik eventually achieves prowess in combat equal to that of 'Kreia', by the Sith Lord's own admission:

 

 

"There is nothing more for me to teach you. You know as much of battle as I."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 

 

Jedi High Council Master Zez-Kai Ell is impressed with how quickly Meetra achieves proficiency in Ataru:

 

 

"Perhaps exile has been good to you indeed - it has certainly not dulled your instincts, nor the speed at which you learn."

-Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 

Whether in friendship or in battle, you learn the lightsaber stance Ataru after meeting with Zez-Kai Ell. This stance is perfect for one-on-one battles, like the duel you just survived.

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords: Prima Official Game Guide

 

 

Jedi High Council master Vrook Lamar, states her ability to achieve proficiency in Shien so quickly is beyond his understanding:

 

 

"Hmmm... I don't know how you learnt that so quickly. Still, your form is sloppy. Keep practicing to tighten it up, and you'll be fine."

-Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 

Whether you ally with Jedi Master Vrook or fight him, you learn a new lightsaber form, Shion, during your encounter. This form improves your defense and makes critical strikes more potent.

-Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

 

Jedi High Council master Lonna Vash is impressed with Surik's ability to master Niman:

 

 

"Excellent! I can see there is still much good in you."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 

 

Jedi High Council master Kavar is impressed with the speed of which Meetra masters Juyo:

 

 

"Excellent! I'm impressed with how quickly you've mastered this form. I always knew you were gifted."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 

"There are times when you want to overwhelm a particular opponent quickly. For these situations, use the Juyo form. Do not get carried away using this form, particularly against Dark Jedi. The ferocity required to use this form leaves one vulnerable to enemy Force powers."

-Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 

 

By mastering Form VII: Juyo, Meetra Surik must have achieved high-level mastery in the other forms of lightsaber combat:

 

 

Only high-level masters of multiple forms can achieve and control the ultimate discipline known as Form VII.

-Source: Insider #62: Fightsaber

 

 

Echani combat skill and precognition:

 

Meetra beats a handmaiden in an unarmed contest, in a weapon contest, in a free-for-all matchup, and a free-for-all against two handmaidens:

 

 

Meetra beats five handmaidens at once:

 

 

In an unarmed contest, Meetra outmatches Brianna the Handmaiden:

 

 

Surik outfights Brianna and is praised:

 

 

Speed:

 

Meetra Surik dispatches two Imperial Guardsmen, both selected to guard the Sith Emperor Vitiate personally whom in turn amplifies them, within a span of some seconds:

 

 

"We have to help Revan!" Meetra shouted, and Scourge turned to see that she, too, had just finished off her opponents.

-Source: The Old Republic: Revan

 

It all happened in the space of only a few seconds.

-Source: The Old Republic: Revan

 

 

Meetra Surik would easily speedblitz anything short of an Imperial Guardsmen:

 

 

Ordinary soldiers would have been chopped down before they could even draw their weapons, but the Imperial Guard were not so easily felled.

-Source: The Old Republic: Revan

 

 

Meetra Surik is capable of analysing and attacking enemies in less than a second:

 

 

It took Meetra less than a second to see and process the odds she was up against.

-Source: The Old Republic: Revan

 

 

Physical and mental durability:

 

Meetra Surik survives the physical and mental torture of the surface of Malachor V, a planet sized storehouse of ancient Sith knowledge and power, potent enough to corrupt all life and to be called upon from space by Revan:

 

 

"Traversing it's surface had been agony. Mentally, she had still sensed the anguish of all who had lost their lives there. Physically, the intense gravity of the world had held her in it's crushing grip, leaving her gasping for breath. It had been the most awful and horrific experience of her life."

-The Old Republic: Revan

 

"On Malachor she'd felt the echoes of unimaginable pain, On Malachor she had felt the echo of great destruction."

-The Old Republic: Revan

 

"To walk on its surface is to feel it crushing every cell of your being. It is like being buried alive until it feels like you may never breathe again..."

-Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 

The dark side energy seething throughout the planet has created a terrain of jagged rock spires, treacherous paths, and sheer cliffs. You find a pair of wrecked Republic ships that are mostly buried under mountains of sharp boulders. Beware of the glowing green cracks in the soil; these mark the location of poison gas vents.

-Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

"Unbeknownst to the Jedi Order, Darth Revan has discovered numerous Sith artifacts and holocrons, all stored in great tomb-like cities buried beneath Malachor V's surface. As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the Dark Side. He learned of the location and the true nature of Korriban, he learned of the location of other Sith artifacts, and he learned how those strong in the light side of the Force could be seduced and made to see the strength inherent in the Sith teachings. Revan knew he had discovered more than a staging area for the Mandalorian War - he had discovered an ancient, planet-sized Sith storehouse of knowledge."

―Star Wars: Chronicles of the Old Republic

 

 

Meetra Surik survives a prolonged period of time on Nathema:

 

 

"The entire process took less than five minutes, but for Meetra it might as well have been an eternity. She had managed to keep busy up until this point, but while waiting idly by for T3 to finish she began to notice the absence of the Force once more.

No! she screamed in her mind. The Void will not take me! I am more than just a collection of random matter and particles! I am a living being. I am Meetra Surik!

The affirmation of her own existence seemed to push the Void back, at least for the moment. But Meetra knew she couldn’t hold out against it much longer.*As much as she tried to ignore what she felt—or, more precisely, didn’t feel—all around her, she knew it was only a matter of time until the horrors of Nathema stripped away her sanity.

-The Old Republic: Revan

 

 

Meetra Surik resists Nihilus' formidable telepathic domination:

 

 

"Nihilus' powers grow so extreme, for most beings mere exposure to the Sith Lord would cause immediate and utterly mindless devotion."

-Star Wars Insider: 88

 

 

Sever Force:

 

Meetra Surik had a natural aptitude of Severing the Force, she instinctively severed her own connection to the Force and is capable of temporarily defeaning Revan to the Force in combat:

 

 

After he[Kavar] leaves to fight the Mandalorians in the early skirmishes before the outbreak of the Mandalorian Wars, she trains with other masters, including Vima Sunrider, who cautions the Jedi Exile to be mindful of her powers, particularly her aptitude for severing another's connection to the Force.

-Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

 

The disturbance in the Force is so great that the Jedi Exile instinctively severs herself from the Force before the backlash rips her to pieces.

-Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

 

"...unless the Exile pulled some strange Force deafening move, but even that wouldn’t keep Revan down for long."

-Chris Avellone

 

 

Force Deflection/Tutaminis:

 

Meetra Surik was capable of defending herself from Atris' Force Lightning Storm with Force Barrier:

 

 

"..she[Atris] commands an array of potent dark side powers like Drain Life and Force [Lightning] Storm."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

Since you[Meetra] don't have any companions to provide healing or support, protect yourself with Force Barrier.

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

 

Meetra was capable of defending herself from most of amped Darth Nyriss' Force Lightning:

 

 

Dazed, he looked up just in time to see another bolt of violet lightning catch Meetra in the chest. Like Nyriss, she threw up a barrier to save herself from the worst of it, but she was still knocked from her feet.

-The Old Republic: Revan

 

 

Telekinesis:

 

Meetra Surik can summon Force Whirlwinds:

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/124590/3812433-3811514-8236219015-captu%2Bforce+whirlwind.png

 

Meetra Surik can Force Push armoured mercenaries with potency enough to kill them as they impact the wall:

 

 

As he fell to the ground, Meetra thrust her free hand out toward the next closest soldier, palm open. The woman flew backward, lifted off her feet and hurtled across the cave by the Force until she slammed into the rock face of the far wall. She slid to the ground, dead.

-The Old Republic: Revan

 

 

Meetra Surik can Force Wave dozens of Kynrath Hatchlings into a wall and kill them with ease:

 

 

Force Wave is extremely useful in this battle; one blast sends the hatchlings hurtling into the walls, leaving you free to take on the matriarch.

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

 

Vital Transfer:

 

Meetra Surik uses Vital Transfer and has healed many through her journeys with it:

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/124590/3812421-3811514-8236219015-captu%2Bvital+transfer.png

 

Moving Meditation:

 

Meetra Surik recovers some of her connection to the Force, learning Moving Meditation:

 

 

"....and recovered part of your connection to the Force, learning a form of Moving Meditation to calm the mind."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 

 

Combat feats:

 

Meetra Surik defeats Sith Shadow Hand Visas Marr, second only in skill to Darth Nihilus, Darth Sion and Darth Traya among the Sith:

 

 

As Nihilus' Shadow Hand, Visas does her Lord's bidding. This includes tracking down a disturbance in the Force that turns out to be the Jedi Exile. They cross lightsabers, and Visas is summarily beaten, subsequently vowing loyalty to her vanquisher.

-Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

 

A shadow hand's expertise is second only to their Master.

-Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide.

 

Dozens, if not hundreds of Sith apprentices learn the ways of the dark side of the Force, and a few even rise of the rank of Sith Master, training students of their own. With legions of armored troops spreading throughout the galaxy, all led by masters of the Force, the Sith Empire seems unstoppable.

-Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

 

 

Meetra Surik defeats Dark Jedi Master Atris, a master lightsaber combatant and master of multiple forms, aided by a trove of collected Sith Holocrons, whom launches Force Lightning Storms at the Jedi Knight:

 

 

"Atris has openly embraced the dark side and has taken the moniker of Darth Traya. You confront her in her meditation chamber, where it's revealed that Traya has gathered dozens of Sith holocrons."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

As a former member of the Jedi Council, Darth Traya [Atris] is a master of lightsaber combat. In addition, she commands an array of potent dark side powers like Drain Life and Force Storm.

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

Atris' pride is no match for the Jedi Exile's lightsaber prowess.

-Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

 

 

Meetra Surik immediately after defeating Atris returns to Citadel Station and slays an army of Dark Jedi and Sith Commandos, using controlled aggression and endurance:

 

 

"When you return to Telos, an army of Sith invade Citadel Station."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

"Surviving the numerous battles against Dark Jedi and Sith commandos requires controlled aggression and endurance."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prime Official Game Guide

 

"The Sith's numbers seem limitless..."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 

"How can you hope to defeat a force so vast and powerful?"

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 

 

Meetra Surik with Mandalore the Preserver and Visas Marr then boards the Ravager itself and battles through hordes of Sith Commandos and Sith Lords:

 

 

"Placing the cores won't be easy thanks to the hordes of Sith commandos and officers in your way"

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

"The Lord of Hunger is protected by several chambers full of Dark Jedi and Sith heavy troopers. You must defeat these minions to reach the bridge and challenge Darth Nihilus himself."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prime Official Game Guide

 

"Several large rooms lie between you and the Bridge, and most of them are full of enemies."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

 

Meetra Surik finally faces Darth Nihilus himself, an ultra-powerful monster of the Dark Side, and defeats him in every manner:

 

 

"Darth Nihilus is so corrupted by the dark side that his very speech causes pain and death to all who hear it. He wields a red lightsaber in battle, and he readily utilizes Force powers to kill, especially Drain Life. [Visas asks how she may best help to destroy Nihilus, the Exile who] tells her to block the flow of power Nihilus absorbs from the Ravager"

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

Amazingly dark and devastating powers are the purview of some of the greatest Sith Lords of the Knights of the Old Republic era.

 

Average beings stand no chance of stopping these ultra-powerful monsters of the dark side. Only the greatest heroes can ultimately defeat them.

-Power Beyond Belief: Using Ultra-Powerful Sith Lords in Saga Edition

 

Although Darth Nihilus managed to stun the Exile, he was unprepared for the devotion of his former pupil Marr to the young woman. Marr tried to exchange her life for that of the Exile, giving the former Jedi time to recover. Together, they confronted Darth Nihilus. The Sith Lord was no match for their combined might, and he fell in battle.

--The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

 

 

Meetra Surik travels to Malachor V, she is now a powerhouse of destruction:

 

 

...after all that you've been through, your character[Meetra Surik] should be a powerhouse of destruction.

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

 

She is instantly assaulted by the environment, as stated above, however she has to confront and kill packs of Storm Beasts despite her disadvantages:

 

 

"More dangerous still are the storm beasts—massive humanoid brutes twisted into monstrous forms by the corrupting energy of Malachor V."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

"You also find a score of storm beasts that attack you in small teams."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

"Beyond the tunnels is the storm beast pen, a massive gorge where the formidable greater storm beast prowls"

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

"Largest of his breed, the greater storm beast possesses immense strength and toughness... Even a well-armored sentinel can find themselves pulverized after a few blows from the greater storm beast."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

 

Once the Jedi Knight Meetra Surik makes her way to the Trayus Academy, s

she has to relentlessly battle her way through a legion of elite Sith:

 

 

"Trayus Academy is the home of those Jedi who have succumbed the to dark side taint of Malachor V. To reach the structure's core, where Darth Sion and Kreia await, you must face a legion of elite Sith single-handedly. Skills and subtlety may have served you well previously, but here there is no substitute for raw destructive power, whether through combat feats or Force attacks. Only by fighting your way through the Sith's strongest guardians can you earn the right to confront your nemesis."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

"Constant battles with numerous Sith assassins are the rule here"

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

"These Sith Assassins are the most elite among the empire."

-Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

 

"These surreptitious butchers specialize in practical modes of Jedi execution."

-Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

 

"The most elite of these assassins are the Bladeborn - Sith blademasters."

-Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

 

"A Sith offshoot dedicated to sword mastery, this tremor sword was given to masters of blades for surviving no less than ten encounters with Lightsaber wielding opponents."

Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

This wing of the academy is also teeming with Sith;

...

The majestic halls of the Trayus Crescent are thronged with Sith and not much else.

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

 

The Eastern wing of the Trayus Academy was particularly difficult as Meetra Surik had to maintain constant breath control whilst fighting even more Sith:

 

 

Breath Control provides immunity to the poison gas in the eastern hallway.

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

Trayus Academy's eastern wing is a warren of cramped rooms packed with alert Sith.

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prime Official Game Guide

 

 

The Jedi Knight Meetra Surik finally faces the veteran Sith marauder Darth Sion an ultra-powerful Sith Lord, defeating him several times:

 

 

"Perhaps the most rage-filled Sith Lord yet encountered, Darth Sion is a shattered mesh of flesh and bone. Sion is in constant pain, but his body is held together by will and fury. He is a True, Immortal manifestation of the Dark Side of the Force. A feared Lightsaber Assassin, Sion's chaotic wrath is directed towards Sith and Jedi alike."

-Star Wars Insider: 88

 

"Few Sith Lords hold mastery over pain or hatred like Darth Sion, Lord of Pain. His visage is terrible to behold: a decomposing body held together by dark side energies channeled by Sion himself, sustaining his life through the Force, powered by anger and hatred. He is in eternal pain but endures it as a small price for apparent immortality. However, in the end, despite his anger, hatred, and manipulation of dark side energy, the Lord of Pain could not defeat the Jedi Exile."

-Star Wars Insider: 88

 

Average beings stand no chance of stopping these ultra-powerful monsters of the dark side. Only the greatest heroes may ultimately defeat them.

- Power Beyond Belief

 

 

Note that Darth Sion has defeated many Jedi foes, including Jedi High Council Master Lonna Vash, a duelist superior to the renowned warrior Jedi Master Kavar:

 

 

Darth Sion has vanquished many Jedi foes.

-Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

 

Kavar isn't as much of a lightsaber virtuoso as the other Jedi masters you've met.

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

Defeating Vash:

 

 

Meetra Surik then faces and kills Darth Traya, an ultra-powerful Sith and Surik's most powerful nemesis whom sits upon a colossal geyser of Dark Side energy, all due to her skills with a lightsaber:

 

 

The nexus of Trayus Academy, the core is a clawlike altar built over a colossal geyser of dark side energy. It is here that you face your ultimate battle and fulfill your destiny.

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

Although Traya was more powerful, the Exile managed to defeat her in combat.

-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

 

Traya uses vast telekinetic powers to wield a trio of lightsabers against her, but she is ultimately killed by the person she considered her greatest disciple.

-Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

 

Any attempt to immobilize or debilitate her[Traya] with Force powers will probably fail, so stick with melee combat..

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Prima Official Game Guide

 

Average beings stand no chance of stopping these ultra-powerful monsters of the dark side. Only the greatest heroes may ultimately defeat them.

-Power Beyond Belief

 

 

After Malachor V Meetra Surik was destined to become stronger than Traya herself:

 

 

"You are strong... I cannot see as she does, but I know, that in time, you shall surpass her power."

-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 

 

To know more about Darth Traya's ultra-powerful abilities read ShootingNova's excellent respect thread: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/shootingnova/blog/kreia-darth-traya-respect-thread/96587/

 

In conclusion:

Meetra Surik is more than capable of taking on any of the enemy combatants and doing much more than hold her own.

[LadyKulvax]

Anakin Skywalker:

 

Lightsaber skill:

 

Takes on Count Dooku early in the Clone Wars:

 

 

Takes on Dooku and causes him to constantly retreat, despite Dooku's Force attacks:

 

http://youtu.be/kSO1SjHQfCA

 

Defeats Count Dooku:

 

 

Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade. He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious. And even now, he was holding himself back; even now, as he landed at Dooku's flank and rained blows upon the Sith Lord's defenses, even as he drove Dooku backward step after step, Dooku could feel how Skywalker kept his fury banked behind walls of will.

-Revenge of the Sith

 

That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze.

-Revenge of the Sith

 

Skywalker was all over him. The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker—Skywalker was getting stronger.

-Revenge of the Sith

 

 

Speed:

 

Anakin dodges fire from an entire droid army, destroys said army, all without being hit once:

 

 

Anakin moved with the swiftness and brilliance of a burning sun. Droids rushed against him, their weapons firing indiscriminately. His lightsaber flashing in a blinding symphony of light and destruction, he parried the bolts effortlessly, sending some ripping through the walls and roof, others back into the very droids that had fired them. He wasn't defending now, he was attacking, attacking with such fury and destruction that nothing could stop him. And he knew where he was going—he was headed for the enemy command post.

 

The droids, unable to give way, unable to surrender even if Anakin would have spared them, flew apart like cheap dolls as the lightsaber cut through them in a broad swath of destruction. The clone troopers following the Jedi had difficulty finding targets, and stumbled over the debris he left in his passage through the complex. They merely followed in his wake, covering his back. Before long he was outside the building and heading with unerring accuracy toward Pors Tonith's bunker. It seemed as if Tonith's entire army was firing at Anakin, but as he ran at full speed over the uneven ground that separated the communications facility from Tonith's command bunker, not a single bolt touched him. The troopers following hugged the ground and crawled painfully onward while their commander stood erect and ran unscathed through the burning trajectories of death.

 

Source:Jedi Trial

 

 

Anakin as a young Padawan moves with speed equal to Master Qui-Gon Jinn:

 

"Never had Obi-Wan seen such a display of the Force from a Padawan. From the great Jedi Masters, yes. From Qui-Gon, near the end of his life. But from someone so young? Anakin's power astonished him. He had glimpsed it before, but now he had seen it unfurl, and it staggered him. He had not had a chance to move, to help. Anakin had been a blur. He had seemed to be everywhere at once. He had destroyed ten attack droids, disarmed his aggressors, and disabled two laser cannons without hesitation, with even a slight smile on his face."

 

 

Telekinesis:

 

TCW Anakin telekinetically hurls Count Dooku:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11121/111215016/4353661-anakain+ability+tk+%2817%29.png

 

ROTS Anakin telekinetically hurls Count Dooku, again:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11121/111215016/4353662-anakain+ability+tk+%2818%29.png

 

Early-TCW Anakin manipulates a CIS dreadnought:

http://m.imgur.com/NFuhCyX

 

Size of said dreadnought in comparison to a Jedi starfighter:

http://m.imgur.com/BN7m2Xc

 

AOTC Anakin manipulates a boulder as large as a tusken hut:

 

 

"Soon none were standing against him, all trying to flee, but Anakin would have none of that. He saw one group rush into a hut and reached out across the way, to a large boulder in the distance. It flew to his call, soaring across the sand, smashing one fleeing Tusken down and flying on. Anakin dropped it on the hut full of Tuskens, crushing them all."

-Attack of the Clones novelisation

 

 

Anakin from a capital ship telekinetically manipulates a large escape pod in flight, larger than Durge whom hides inside, and sends it into a distant sun:

 

http://m.imgur.com/Jbceo5y

 

Durability:

 

Anakin shrugs off Dooku's numerous Telekinetic attacks & Force Lightning bursts, and continues attacking the Sith Lord:

 

http://youtu.be/kSO1SjHQfCA

 

Anakin takes numerous staff hits and a full Force Lightning burst before going down:

 

http://youtu.be/aqeEjv1_eOc

 

Conclusion:

 

Anakin Skywalker can outduel Dooku, Maul or Savage, tank their Force attacks and easily match their telekinesis in combat.

[LadyKulvax]

Aryn Leneer:

 

Lightsaber skill:

 

Aryn Leneer is more than capable of matching Sith Lord Darth Malgus, one of the greatest warriors and heroes in the Sith Empire, whom had already killed Battlemaster Kao Cen Darach, bested Satele Shan and killed Aryn's own master Ven Zallow, he has also killed Lord Adraas with near ease:

 

 

She leapt over it, pulling her legs in tight, and loosed a two-handed overhead strike as she came back down. Malgus parried crosswise with his blade and stepped into a Force-augmented side kick aimed at her ribs. She caught the kick with her free hand, closed her arm over his leg, spun, and flung Malgus twenty meters from her. He flipped in midair and landed atop the cracked face of the Odan-Urr statue that had once lined the processional approach into the Temple.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

 

The moment she landed, Malgus was upon her, his blade slashing, stabbing, spinning. He tried to use his superior strength to force her off the stone, off balance, but she answered his strength with speed, sidestepping his blows, leaping over them, parrying, unleashing her own flurries. The hum of their weapons through the air, the sizzle of crossed blades, merged into a single song of speed and power.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

 

She and Darth Malgus bounded across the ruins of the Temple, their blades flashing, locking, the speed of their duel so fast Zeerid could barely follow their movement. Despite himself, he found the combat beautiful.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

 

 

 

Speed:

 

Aryn runs a 100 meters in the space of time it takes a guard to turn on his infrared:

 

 

Moving with Force-augmented speed, Aryn easily avoided the Alderaanian guards posted on the grounds of the compound. A canine with one of the guard teams must have caught her smell. It growled as she passed, but before the guards could turn on their infrared scanners, Aryn was already a hundred meters away. She did not exit through any of the checkpoints. Instead, she picked her way among the gardens until she reached the compound’s walls, veined in green creepers blooming with yellow and white flowers.

 

Without slowing, she drew on the Force, leapt into the air, and arced over the five-meter wall. She hit the ground on the other side, free.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

 

 

Aryn can stretch her reflexes so far via the Force that she percieves each millisecond as a minute and can accomplish actions in a millisecond, time seemingly freezing around her and appearing solidly in numerous places at once:

 

 

Aryn did not bother to respond. She dwelled in the Force, floated in and on the warm network of lines that connected all things, one to another. Her consciousness expanded to see and feel everything near her. She focused on her perception of the passage of time, first on how it felt as she moved through it, then on spreading it, stretching it, until she could linger in a millisecond as if it were a moment, then a minute. To Zeerid it would appear that she were a blur of motion, existing simultaneously in multiple places. To her, it felt as if the universe around her had stilled. She smiled, seeing the moments that hung before her, each millisecond a long moment in which she could think, in which she could act. The effort taxed her, and she knew she could not maintain it for long.

 

“Watch the scanner,” Zeerid said, his words a lifetime in the utterance.

 

She did not watch the scanner. Her body could respond faster than any machine. Instead she watched the viewscreen. The Imperial ships had finished their hydrogen skim and now maneuvered into a formation suitable for a hyperspace jump, the supply ships within the ring of the frigate escort.

 

She tensed.

 

“They’re forming up,” Zeerid said. The waves of his tension crashed against her but she dammed them off, did not allow them to disrupt her focus.

 

She watched, waited, waited …

 

As one, the Imperial ships began to stretch in her perception. For a nanosecond, all of them seemed to stretch to infinity, their rear engines a hundred thousand kilometers off Fatman’s bow, their forms reaching across and through an incomprehensible distance. She knew it was illusion, that is was a trick of her perception caused by the moment they entered hyperspace seeming to freeze before her eyes.

 

She engaged Fatman’s hyperdrive and the black night of space turned blue.

 

“Now, Aryn! Now!” Zeerid said, but he was far too late.

 

They were already gone.

 

She remained immersed in the Force as Fatman surged through hyperspace. The ordinary maddening churn slowed to a crawl of spirals and whorls, the script of the universe writ large in characters of blue, turquoise, midnight, and lavender. She fancied there might be meaning in the lines, an important revelation that hung before her, just beyond the reach of her consciousness.

 

She lost track of the slow passage of time. Zeerid spoke to her from time to time but his words bounced off her perception, ricocheted without her comprehension. In time, something he said penetrated her understanding.

 

“Coming out, Aryn. Be ready.”

 

She watched Zeerid, moving in slow motion, pull back on the lever that engaged the hyperdrive.

 

She readied herself, and the moment the blue of hyperspace started to fade into black, she pushed a series of buttons and switches that turned Fatman cold except for life support, thrusters, and the small amount of power they’d need to create an electromagnetic bond.

 

The blue disappeared in favor of the midnight of space, and she returned to normal perception.

 

“Engaging thrusters,” Zeerid said. “Well done, Aryn.”

 

Sweat soaked her robes, pasted them to her body. She felt as if she had not slept in days.

 

“Now it gets fun,” Zeerid said.

 

The trailing freighter in the convoy, five times the size of Fatman, flew right before them. They had jumped out within the ring of frigates and gone cold so fast the frigates would not have perceived their arrival. They were directly under one of the freighters, a kilometer beneath its underside, maybe less.

 

In the distance, the metal-and-duracrete sphere of Coruscant floated in space. The rest of the convoy spread out before them. The trailing freighter’s ion engines fired, and it started to head out.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

 

 

Aryn one-handedly forms a cocoon of green energy around herself and her ally that deflects all incoming blaster-fire, whilst helping said ally up to his feet with the other:

 

 

But before he could stand Aryn was over him, her blade a blur of motion that formed a cocoon of green light around them, deflecting blaster shots in all directions. She grabbed him under his armpit and helped him to his feet while still deflecting shots.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

 

 

Telekinesis:

 

Aryn dispatches two Sith before they can activate their lightsabers, smashing them into a wall, as a by-product of her blast two large statues smash into said wall as well and are shattered:

 

 

The male Sith reached for his lightsaber. Before he could activate it, Aryn unleashed a blast of power that lifted both Sith from their feet and blew them into the wall. Two Alderaanian statues, caught in the effect of her power, slammed into the wall to either side of the Sith and shattered into chunks.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

 

 

Aryn tears a lightsaber from the telekinetic control of Sith Lord Darth Malgus and snatches it from mid flight:

 

 

Anger went forth from Malgus. He reactivated Master Zallow’s blade and hurled it after them. Zeerid tried to wheel out of the way but the blade curled and kept coming at them. T7 beeped in alarm.

 

Aryn watched the weapon spin, felt it, and before it reached the speeder, she reached out with the Force and snatched it from Malgus’s mental grasp. The weapon turned upward over the speeder and descended hilt-first into her hand as Zeerid rose into the night sky and sped away. She deactivated it.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

 

 

Aryn telekinetically hurls six cars of a cargo tram at three men:

Note: being a cargo tram, it would be larger than most:

 

 

Aryn gestured at a cargo tram near the three men shooting at them from behind. The six cars of the tram rushed toward the men, propelled by Aryn’s power. They scrambled aside, and Aryn and Zeerid dashed for Fatman.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

 

 

Force Deflection:

 

Aryn instantly deflects a blast of telekinetic energy from a Sith adept, the deflected blast is strong enough to knock-over and shatter two large statues and send another Sith adept flying ten paces:

 

 

She advanced on him, heedless of the woman, imagining the feel of her hands on his throat. He answered her approach with a blast of power, but she made a V with her hands, formed a wedge with her will, and deflected the blast to either side of her. More statues toppled, shattered. The female Sith, caught in the deflected blast, was thrown backward ten paces.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

 

 

Aryn stands her ground against Sith Lord Darth Malgus' meteoric impact directly on-top of her, which was strong enough to visibly appear with ripples of power and shattered stone on impact, sending it flying in a hail of debris:

 

 

A ROAR, heavy with hate and rage, pulled Aryn’s eyes skyward. Malgus descended like a meteor. His cape flew out behind and over him, a comma of cape flew out behind and over him, a comma of darkness, and he held his lightsaber in a two-handed grip. Power went before him in a wave of visible distortion. The shuttle out of which he had leapt flew off into the night sky.

 

Aryn fell fully into the Force, raised her defenses, took a fighting stance, and parried Malgus’s two-handed overhand slash. Still, he landed in a cocoon of power, hitting the ground in an explosion of might that shattered the stones around them and turned them into a hail of shrapnel.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

 

 

Aryn blocks the extremely formidable Sith Lightning of Darth Malgus with two lightsaber blades:

 

 

His power met her will. The lightning twisted around the glowing blades. The force of it stopped her downward descent and held her aloft in the air for a moment, suspended on a column built of the dark side.

 

And then she overcame it. The lightning dissipated to nothingness and she, unharmed by it, fell straight down, landing on her feet atop a shifting pile of rubble and deactivating Master Zallow’s blade.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

 

 

Strength:

 

Aryn blocks the direct over-head power blow of Darth Malgus whom landed with such impact the stone around him shattered:

 

 

A ROAR, heavy with hate and rage, pulled Aryn’s eyes skyward. Malgus descended like a meteor. His cape flew out behind and over him, a comma of cape flew out behind and over him, a comma of darkness, and he held his lightsaber in a two-handed grip. Power went before him in a wave of visible distortion. The shuttle out of which he had leapt flew off into the night sky.

 

Aryn fell fully into the Force, raised her defenses, took a fighting stance, and parried Malgus’s two-handed overhand slash. Still, he landed in a cocoon of power, hitting the ground in an explosion of might that shattered the stones around them and turned them into a hail of shrapnel.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

 

 

Aryn Leneer captures the Force-augmented kick of Darth Malgus and with one arm threw him 20 meters, considering the monstrous muscular size of Malgus and the thick Sith dark armor he wears, this is an immense strength feat:

 

 

Malgus parried crosswise with his blade and stepped into a Force-augmented side kick aimed at her ribs. She caught the kick with her free hand, closed her arm over his leg, spun, and flung Malgus twenty meters from her.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

 

 

Conclusion:

 

Aryn Leneer is a Jedi with the capabilities to match the extremely powerful Sith Warrior Darth Malgus in head-to-head uninterrupted combat, this is a feat that Battlemaster Kao Cen Darach, Jedi Knight Satele Shan, Jedi Master Ven Zallow, Sith Lord Adraas and many more failed to achieve.

 

In a contest against the likes of which she meets in this battle she can certainly hold her own or win a contest, her Force Empathy will read her opponents and play those emotions against them.

 

Many here would write her off as inferior and an outsider in this contest, on the contrary she is a perfect match in combat prowess for her opponents.

[LadyKulvax]

Teamwork:

 

All three of these Jedi are experienced Sith slayers with martial prowess to contest themselves, they all have exceptional skill and speed back up by immense durability and stamina, with Meetra's Vital Transfer, Battle Meditation and other forms of Force support then the team can extend itself beyond what it would normally be capable of.

 

Instead of making interchanging switches in this contest all three Jedi would prefer prolonged engagements against a single opponent where they can most effectively apply themselves.

 

Anakin Skywalker has killed Count Dooku before and will have the confidence to go after him again, the difference this time being that Anakin has genuine help in this case whereas to Maul and Savage, Dooku is as large an enemy as the Jedi are, likely even more so. Dooku has no team, he is alone here and can't count on help.

 

Whilst the Jedi are unknown to each other, they are all staunch in their shared beliefs, destroying the Sith and defending the Republic. Better yet teamwork would evolve quickly due to Meetra Surik's Force powers, aiding them when required and building bridges as they go forward. Better yet all three are expert in their analysis of lightsaber forms and will essentially be able to work off of each other should the need arise.

 

The Jedi are united whereas the Sith may as well be on opposing sides.

[Aurbere]

Gewd start so far, guys.

[Selenial]

I'll leave Beni to sort the specifics, but Rayla you used some Non-Canon information from the prima guide. You need to be careful what you use, guides on how to best deal with levels are not canon, for example they say to spam Force Storm against assassins on Malachor, but I think it's painfully obvious that Surik didn't do that.

 

Biographies on characters, statements about characters or description of terrain can be used IMO, but the line between them is an important one...

 

Also Sion didn't beat Lonna Vash with a lightsaber so that argument is a bit flawed... But again, I'll let Beni deal with it. Hard to stay out of a Surik debate

Edited July 11, 2015 by Selenial

[LadyKulvax]

It shows capability, it's fully in the realm of possibility and honestly not very important.

 

Lonna Vash knowingly walked into a trap and was defeated and captured by Darth Sion, that is all we know.

[Selenial]

It shows capability, it's fully in the realm of possibility and honestly not very important.

 

Lonna Vash knowingly walked into a trap and was defeated and captured by Darth Sion, that is all we know.

 

Depends if you use TSLRCM, because it (and subsequently the game Dialog files) show her being defeated with a force crush.

[LadyKulvax]

No one is claiming Sion won a pure sabers battle, simply that he did defeat her.

[Beniboybling]

Teamwork:

 

All three of these Jedi are experienced Sith slayers with martial prowess to contest themselves, they all have exceptional skill and speed back up by immense durability and stamina, with Meetra's Vital Transfer, Battle Meditation and other forms of Force support then the team can extend itself beyond what it would normally be capable of.

Though vital transfer may prove a useful ability, it comes at the expense of her own energy, and in that respect is merely a redistribution of power. Battle Meditation on the other hand is unlikely to come into play, as in order to use this power the Exile had to

, her opponents aren't going to give her that opportunity.

Instead of making interchanging switches in this contest all three Jedi would prefer prolonged engagements against a single opponent where they can most effectively apply themselves.

In an ideal situation, but wanting something and achieving something are too different things, and you've failed to provide a means by which they can achieve these favorable matchups. I think I've explained pretty thoroughly how Dooku will be much more effective in manipulating the battlefield in his favour.

Anakin Skywalker has killed Count Dooku before and will have the confidence to go after him again, the difference this time being that Anakin has genuine help in this case whereas to Maul and Savage, Dooku is as large an enemy as the Jedi are, likely even more so. Dooku has no team, he is alone here and can't count on help.

 

Whilst the Jedi are unknown to each other, they are all staunch in their shared beliefs, destroying the Sith and defending the Republic. Better yet teamwork would evolve quickly due to Meetra Surik's Force powers, aiding them when required and building bridges as they go forward. Better yet all three are expert in their analysis of lightsaber forms and will essentially be able to work off of each other should the need arise.

 

The Jedi are united whereas the Sith may as well be on opposing sides.

I disagree. You say that the Jedi are "staunch in their shared beliefs", this is true. But the Sith are as well, Dooku and Maul are both from the Banite line, they are both pupils of Darth Sidious and as such have a shared mentality.

 

They know the score, they know they need to work together as a team to win, and as disciples of a philosophy that encourages patience and cunning they will be more than willing to use one another to achieve their immediate goals, and stab themselves in the back at a later date, neither of them are going to be so headstrong or foolish as to act with anything other than full cooperation and trust, lest they jeopardise their chances of victory, and perish as a result.

 

And they can trust one another, because they know they are both of the same philosophy and they know the other will be thinking in the exact same way. In this respect they are just as united in their desire to destroy their Jedi opponents. Noting that Dooku and Maul have allied in the past in Son of Dathomir, joining forces to kick the asses of some Jedi, their mentalities have not changed, and they will be more than eager to kick some Jedi behind for a second time.

 

Savage is a potential liability due to his past negative experiences with Dooku, but this is not an issue, Savage will follow his brothers lead, him and Maul being very much two halves of a single warrior, Savage is merely another weapon for Maul to wield, and one he can control. Nor will Dooku be in need of Savage's aid, he is more than capable and indeed expert at fighting alone against groups, and Maul is always there to assist him if necessary.

 

P.S. But "all three are expert in their analysis of lightsaber forms"? I'm afraid I'm going to need proof of that.

[LadyKulvax]

Vital Transfer is just one of many Force techniques Meetra Surik mastered through achieving enlightenment in the Force, supporting her team mates is well within her capabilities.

 

Anakin has repeatedly showed an ability to press Count Dooku into a constant retreat, in which Dooku was forced to rely on Force prowess to temporarily sandbag Skywalker, in the end Dooku was entirely incapable of even defending against Anakin's strikes, in this case he will be on the backfoot and will not have the luxury of playing the field as you describe.

 

Savage despises Count Dooku and Darth Maul proved his parallel dislike for him in Son of Dathomir, they view him as a Jedi pawn of Sidious and would kill him given any chance, regardless of your personal views they are bonified enemies and as Sidious put it "rivals".

 

Meetra Surik could infact mentally manipulate him into going into a blind rage against Dooku, something she can probe with her ability to penetrate the thoughts of others. Infact Dun Moch would be most imperious in this use.

 

Dooku in no way is going to find allies in the Dathomirians, let alone trust.

[Beniboybling]

Vital Transfer is just one of many Force techniques Meetra Surik mastered through achieving enlightenment in the Force, supporting her team mates is well within her capabilities.

Such as? Bar vital transfer and battle meditation what else can the Exile bring to the table?

Anakin has repeatedly showed an ability to press Count Dooku into a constant retreat, in which Dooku was forced to rely on Force prowess to temporarily sandbag Skywalker, in the end Dooku was entirely incapable of even defending against Anakin's strikes, in this case he will be on the backfoot and will not have the luxury of playing the field as you describe.

In a 1v1 engagement, which this is not, where Anakin is able to jump straight back in and press his attack. He fails to demonstrate as much when fighting alongside Kenobi. Instead Dooku off-balances and manipulates Anakin's movements multiple times in that engagement. Allow me to give you a play-by-play:

 

0:44 - Dooku deflects Anakin's attack and throws him off course, allowing him to deal with Kenobi

0:54 - Dooku throws off Anakin, again so he can deal with Kenobi

0:56 - Dooku rinses and repeats

1:15 - Dooku slices at Anakin's legs, forcing him to flip away, so he can deal with Kenobi

1:19 - Dooku staggers Anakin with a kick

1:26 - Dooku catches Anakin with a kick in mid-air and rolls him out of the way

 

And lets not forget this little beauty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYT3ctPuVRw&t=1m44s - Dooku, while blocking an attack and subsequently Force choking Kenobi, kicks Anakin away with his back turned.

 

Fact is when fighting alongside others you can't afford to bear down on your opponent indefinitely, you have to be mindful of your surroundings, and break off your attack to avoid cutting up your allies. In that respect Anakin won't be able to press Dooku, and when off-balanced, which Dooku can easily do, won't be able to leap right back into the fray. Bearing in mind that Anakin and Kenobi as a pair had achieved perfect synergy with one another as duelists:

Blade-to-blade, they were identical. After thousands of hours in lightsaber sparring, they knew each other better than brothers, more intimately than lovers; they were complementary halves of a single warrior.

 

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith novelisation

Anakin again doesn't have that advantage in this battle, on the contrary he again has no experience with his allies or their fighting styles, their actions and intentions will be alien to him, making them all the more likely to get in Anakin's way, especially if Dooku facilitates it, which he will. Add to that that Dooku is more than capable of off-balancing Anakin and sending him off course, and it is again highly unlikely he'll manage to isolate the Count.

Savage despises Count Dooku and Darth Maul proved his parallel dislike for him in Son of Dathomir, they view him as a Jedi pawn of Sidious and would kill him given any chance, regardless of your personal views they are bonified enemies and as Sidious put it "rivals".

And yet that didn't prevent Maul from allying with him (an alliance he extended) when it suited his purposes. So what's your point? Maul's personal opinions on Dooku are irrelevant and of no use in winning this engagement, so Maul will leave them where they belong, at the door, and he'll expect Dooku to extend the same courtesy. He will.

 

They are rivals, correct. But they are also intelligent enough to work together.

Meetra Surik could infact mentally manipulate him into going into a blind rage against Dooku, something she can probe with her ability to penetrate the thoughts of others. Infact Dun Moch would be most imperious in this use.

Assuming your referring to Savage (because the idea that the Exile could mentally manipulate or probe Maul is laughable) then your going to need proof of her ability to do this. The Exile's best telepathic feats involve manipulating non-Force sensitives, whereas Savage was able to break free from the mental control of Mother Talzin's mesmerism spell - the product presumably of incredibly potent Nightsister magick - through sheer will power.

 

He will shrug off the Exile's attempts to control him with that same tenacity.

 

In regards to reading his surface thoughts, which is the only way he could discover Savage's hatred towards Dooku and use it against him, she has only ever demonstrated the ability to hear the thoughts of her companions, of whom she had established deep Force bonds with, and in a state of meditation. She holds no such advantages in this situation and really the best she can hope to read from Savage is his intention to painfully end her life.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Beniboybling

[LadyKulvax]

Such as? Bar vital transfer and battle meditation what else can the Exile bring to the table?

Force Healing & Force Valor, among others.

 

In a 1v1 engagement, which this is not, where Anakin is able to jump straight back in and press his attack. He fails to demonstrate as much when fighting alongside Kenobi. Instead Dooku off-balances and manipulates Anakin's movements multiple times in that engagement. Allow me to give you a play-by-play:

 

0:44 - Dooku deflects Anakin's attack and throws him off course, allowing him to deal with Kenobi

0:54 - Dooku throws off Anakin, again so he can deal with Kenobi

0:56 - Dooku rinses and repeats

1:15 - Dooku slices at Anakin's legs, forcing him to flip away, so he can deal with Kenobi

1:19 - Dooku staggers Anakin with a kick

1:27 - Dooku catches Anakin with a kick in mid-air and rolls him out of the way

 

And lets not forget this little beauty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYT3ctPuVRw&t=1m44s - Dooku, while blocking an attack and subsequently Force choking Kenobi, kicks Anakin away with his back turned.

 

Fact is when fighting alongside others you can't afford to bear down on your opponent indefinitely, you have to be mindful of your surroundings, and break off your attack to avoid cutting up your allies. In that respect Anakin won't be able to press Dooku, and when off-balanced, which Dooku can easily do, won't be able to leap right back into the fray. Bearing in mind that Anakin and Kenobi as a pair had achieved perfect synergy with one another as duelists:

Blade-to-blade, they were identical. After thousands of hours in lightsaber sparring, they knew each other better than brothers, more intimately than lovers; they were complementary halves of a single warrior.

 

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith novelisation

Anakin again doesn't have that advantage in this battle, on the contrary he again has no experience with his allies or their fighting styles, their actions and intentions will be alien to him, making them all the more likely to get in Anakin's way, especially if Dooku facilitates it, which he will. Add to that that Dooku is more than capable of off-balancing Anakin and sending him off course, and it is again highly unlikely he'll manage to isolate the Count.

 

Except Anakin is capable of fully defeating any opponent in this contest, so even if Dooku runs away from him he is more than capable of defeating anybody here.

 

These Jedi have all read the forms of opponents before, the Exile has mirrored the forms of Jedi Masters and mastered them in turn. Anakin Skywalker was capable of noting Dooku's Makashi and Ventress's, Aryn Leneer has noted the form of Darth Malgus. They are not amateurs as you portray them and will be fully capable of teaming up in this contest as they have done with other Jedi, not tumbling over each other as you suggest.

 

Aryn Leneer and Meetra Surik are like wise fully capable of battling any opponent in this duel and better yet have the speed to overwhelm Savage Opress at any time and the Force prowess to match the Sith Lords in combat.

 

Count Dooku has no experience in teaming with his allies and cannot call upon trust to aid him in this fight, infact your strategy of him pulling out of fights is precisely the kind of thing that would cause distrust in his allies, he will be seen to back off from duels and allowing them to take the brunt.

 

And yet that didn't prevent Maul from allying with him (an alliance he extended) when it suited his purposes. So what's your point? Maul's personal opinions on Dooku are irrelevant and of no use in winning this engagement, so Maul will leave them where they belong, at the door, and he'll expect Dooku to extend the same courtesy. He will.

 

They are rivals, correct. But they are also intelligent enough to work together.

At the start yes but Dooku's strategy is the counter opposite of their's and the further the battle stretches out, the more frustrated they will get when they fail to make any advances.

 

Which brings me to the point of the throne room, this is a perfect place for the Jedi to stretch their reflexes, pull out heir telekinetic prowess and cause serious frustation in their enemies.

 

Assuming your referring to Savage (because the idea that the Exile could mentally manipulate or probe Maul is laughable) then your going to need proof of her ability to do this. The Exile's best telepathic feats involve manipulating non-Force sensitives, whereas Savage was able to break free from the mental control of Mother Talzin's mesmerism spell - the product presumably of incredibly potent Nightsister magick - through sheer will power.

 

He will shrug off the Exile's attempts to control him with that same tenacity.

 

In regards to reading his surface thoughts, which is the only way he could discover Savage's hatred towards Dooku and use it against him, she has only ever demonstrated the ability to hear the thoughts of her companions, off of whom she had established deep Force bonds with, and in a state of meditation. She holds no such advantages in this situation and really the best she can hope to read from Savage is his intention to painfully end her life.

 

The Jedi Exile used her keen insight and awareness to probe the mind of Sion and convince him of his own weakness, the same Sion whose formidable willpower kept him alive, his focus and hot mindset were in the extreme and yet the Exile was more than capable of manipulating him literally to death. Furthermore the Exile has extreme displays of Force Empathy just as Aryn Leneer has displayed, on a planet-wide scale.

 

Savage Opress had already believed he was never like his brother and admits to such, she will convince him likewise and use his frustration against him, in such a dangerous environment Savage could be tricked and dodged into falling down the vent or making a fatal mistake against opponents far faster than himself.

 

Savage Opress is not of the same quality as the other five combatants here, he is a weak link amongst Jedi whom are profoundly capable of taking advantage of a weakness. I doubt he will be to keep up nor do I see any feats to suggest he can defend himself against such extremely powerful telekinesis as his three opponents have displayed.

Edited July 12, 2015 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

Force Healing & Force Valor, among others.

Force Healing is unlikely to be applicable in battle, as the Exile will need time to concentrate, and I see no evidence that the Exile can amplify others with her powers unless she has established a Force bond.

Except Anakin is capable of fully defeating any opponent in this contest, so even if Dooku runs away from him he is more than capable of defeating anybody here.

Any one? Perhaps, although you haven't really proven as much. But against two opponents? As I stated originally Maul and Savage are a team. If Anakin engages any one of them it is a strong likelihood the other will move in to assist, leaving Dooku to deal with the Exile and Leneer in a 2 v 1 engagement which, as I said, he excels in.

 

I'd take this moment to point out that the duel will begin in a confined space, with the combatants packed together, in this way a well-timed and calculated deflection could send Anakin not only off-course, but all the more easily into the course of his allies or his enemies. Likewise a well-timed and coordinated Force push could create a domino effect, taking two of the Jedi out at once, making it easy for Dooku to micro-manage multiple opponents.

 

With a few moves Dooku could easily send Anakin into Maul's path then blow the Exile and Leneer off the platform for him to engage, leaving Savage to aid his brother. I'll elaborate on the outcomes of such a match up in due time.

These Jedi have all read the forms of opponents before, the Exile has mirrored the forms of Jedi Masters and mastered them in turn. Anakin Skywalker was capable of noting Dooku's Makashi and Ventress's, Aryn Leneer has noted the form of Darth Malgus. They are not amateurs as you portray them and will be fully capable of teaming up in this contest as they have done with other Jedi, not tumbling over each other as you suggest.

Key word being opponents, not allies.

 

Neither Anakin, Leneer or the Exile can afford to take their eyes of their adversaries for a second to note the stances of their allies, they can't afford to divide their attention in that manner and if they do it will only leave them exposed to attack. Nor is noting one's style enough to gauge their personality and tactical preferences.

 

They're level of skill is irrelevant, the fact remains that they are unfamiliar with each others styles, and I'd remind you that Dooku can used this tactic to effect against not only experts, but experts who know each other inside out:

"I'm twice the Jedi I was last time!"

 

Ah, Dooku thought. Such a fragile little ego. Sidious will have to help him with that. But until then-The grip of Skywalker's blade whistled through the air to meet his hand in perfect synchrony with a sweeping slash.

 

"My powers have doubled since we last met -"

 

"How lovely for you." Dooku neatly sidestepped, cutting at the boy's leg, yet Skywalker's blade met the cut as he passed and he managed to sweep his blade behind his head to slap aside the casual thrust Dooku aimed at the back of his neck - but his clumsy charge had put him in Kenobi's path, so that the Jedi Master had to Force-roll over his partner's head.

 

Directly at Dooku's upraised blade.

 

Kenobi drove a slash at the scarlet blade while he pivoted in the air, and again Dooku sidestepped so that now it was Kenobi in Skywalker's way.

 

"Really," Dooku said, "this is pathetic."

 

Oh, they were certainly energetic enough, leaping and whirling, raining blows almost at random, cutting chairs to pieces and Force-hurling them in every conceivable direction, while Dooku continued, in his gracefully methodical way, to out-manoeuvre them so thoroughly it was all he could to do keep from laughing out loud.

 

It was a simple matter of countering their tactics, which were depressingly straightforward; Skywalker was the swift one, whooshing here and there like a spastic hawk-bat-attempting a Jedi variant of neek-in-the-middle so they could come at him from both sides-while Kenobi came on in a measured Shii-Cho cadence, deliberate as a lumberdroid, moving step by step, cutting off the angles, clumsy but relentlessly dogged as he tried to chivvy Dooku into a corner.

 

Whereas all Dooku need do was to slip from one side to another-and occasionally flip over a head here and there-so that he could fight each of them in turn, rather than both of them at the same time. He supposed that in their own milieu, they might actually prove reasonably effective; it was clear that their style had been developed by fighting as a team against large numbers of opponents. They were not prepared to fight together against a single Force-user, certainly not one of Dooku's power; he, on the other hand, had always fought alone. It was laughably easy to keep the Jedi tripping and stumbling and getting in each other's way.

 

They didn't even comprehend how utterly he dominated the combat. Because they fought as they had been trained, by releasing all desire and allowing the Force to flow through them, they had no hope of countering Dooku's mastery of Sith techniques. They had learned nothing since he had bested them on Geonosis.

 

They allowed the Force to direct them; Dooku directed the Force.

 

He drew their strikes to his parries, and drove his own ripostes with thrusts of dark power that subtly altered the Jedi's balance and disrupted their timing. He could have slaughtered both of them as casually as that creature Maul had destroyed the vigos of the Black Sun.

 

--Taken from the Revenge of the Sith novelisation

Something he replicated in his duel against Ventress and Vos:

He found the time to carefully set down his glass of Alderaanian wine while drawing his lightsaber. Ventress swung, but the count ducked. He leapt between the two of them, kicking out at Vos while blocking Ventress’ strike with a his crimson lightsaber, almost dancing between his two enemies so that they had to guard against injuring each other as they sought to slay him.

 

--Taken from Dark Disciple

Noting that Ventress and Vos had trained together extensively, as a result forming a connection that allowed them to predict and react to each other’s moves:

Ventress cursed under her breath, executing a backflip while kicking off the ridiculous high heels. With the connection they had forged, Vos immediately picked up on her tactic, moving for a better position from which to press the attack.

 

--Taken from Dark Disciple

On what grounds are you claiming that Anakin, Leneer and the Exile, who have since never met, and two of whom are headstrong, will have a greater level of skill and synergy?

Count Dooku has no experience in teaming with his allies and cannot call upon trust to aid him in this fight, infact your strategy of him pulling out of fights is precisely the kind of thing that would cause distrust in his allies, he will be seen to back off from duels and allowing them to take the brunt.

No experience? Dooku trained Savage, he knows how he fights and how he thinks quite well. And Dooku already has experience teaming up with Maul, as well as prior knowledge, including knowledge of his descedancy from the Banite line which again comes with a certain mindset. Dooku will know exactly how the Brothers think.

 

And who said anything about pulling out? Dooku isn't going to run away, he's going to engage his opponents alongside his allies and manipulate the flow of the battle to his advantage.

 

I can fathom no reason why Maul and Savage won't go along with the dance, in fact I'm sure they'll be more than eager to sink their teeth into whatever Jedi Dooku sends in their direction. But even if Dooku does decide it wise to let the Brothers go in first, I see no reason why they would have any qualms about leading the charge. They are aggressive, ferocious and self-reliant, they will be eager to take the brunt, not shy away from it.

At the start yes but Dooku's strategy is the counter opposite of their's and the further the battle stretches out, the more frustrated they will get when they fail to make any advances.

Counter-opposite? How exactly? Savage and Maul's strategy is to kill everything that moves, starting with the best of them, I fail to see how that does anything other than compliment Dooku's plans.

Which brings me to the point of the throne room, this is a perfect place for the Jedi to stretch their reflexes, pull out heir telekinetic prowess and cause serious frustation in their enemies.

Dooku is well regarded as a telekinetic savant and easily possess the best telekinetic prowess on the field, and frustration will only fuel the Brothers anger and subsequent strength.

The Jedi Exile used her keen insight and awareness to probe the mind of Sion and convince him of his own weakness, the same Sion whose formidable willpower kept him alive, his focus and hot mindset were in the extreme and yet the Exile was more than capable of manipulating him literally to death. Furthermore the Exile has extreme displays of Force Empathy just as Aryn Leneer has displayed, on a planet-wide scale.

 

Savage Opress had already believed he was never like his brother and admits to such, she will convince him likewise and use his frustration against him, in such a dangerous environment Savage could be tricked and dodged into falling down the vent or making a fatal mistake against opponents far faster than himself.

Granted, but in her duel with Sion she not only had time to study and question him before the battle, but engaged in a marathon engagement with multiple exchanges, the Exile did not use Dun Moch in her first engagement against him, but she wasn't given the oppurtunity to study and understand him in this manner. Nor will she here, with no prior knowledge of her opponent and will Maul for backup she'll be too focused on surviving to consider Dun Moch. Which could realistically back fire, if all she succeeds in doing is enraging Savage he'll merely become more powerful.

Savage Opress is not of the same quality as the other five combatants here, he is a weak link amongst Jedi whom are profoundly capable of taking advantage of a weakness. I doubt he will be to keep up nor do I see any feats to suggest he can defend himself against such extremely powerful telekinesis as his three opponents have displayed.

Your grossly underestimated Savage's abilities, allow me to give you a quick primer:

 

In terms of speed, Savage blitzed Jedi Master Halsey:

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625057-savage+disarms+jedi.gif

 

He outmaneuvered Ventress in hand-to-hand:

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625081-savage+dodges+ventress.gif

 

Blitzed a Jedi Padawan before he could even engage:

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625300-sith+hunters+-+savage+vs+jedi+01.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625301-sith+hunters+-+savage+vs+jedi+02.jpg

 

And demonstrated superior speed to Plo Koon, swiping his breath mask:

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625299-sith+hunters+-+savage+demasks+koon.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625298-sith+hunters+-+savage+demasks+koon+02.jpg

 

Plo Koon whose abilities were legendary among the Order, and has been touted as among the most powerful Jedi ever, so I'm going to require proof that anyone of his opponents are "far faster" than him by any stretch.

 

Fact is Savage has demonstrated the ability to go toe-to-toe with the best of the Jedi Council, and was fast enough to keep up with Darth Sidious - Dave Filoni claiming he did a better job than the B-Team:

“You know getting taken out by Sidious is pretty good, ranks up there… he puts up a better fight than the Jedi Council did I’ll say that much for him.”

 

--Dave Filoni in Wrath of the Sith

He is no weak link, and more than capable of keeping up with these individuals.

 

In regards to telekinesis. It's Savage's powers the Jedi should be concerned about:

 

His Force pushes were strong enough to decimate scores of soldiers, with Savage and Maul between them decimating a battalion of at least 100 soldiers with a single blast and blowing Jedi of their feet:

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4629568-star+wars+-+darth+maul+-+death+sentence+%232+006.jpg

 

To give an example of the size of the battalion and the scale of the destruction:

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4629259-6312503658-46292.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4629619-4768625660-46295.jpg

 

He can generate Force waves that have sent the likes of Dooku, Ventress, Anakin, Kenobi and Maul flying:

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4629378-2238739133-ezgif.gif

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625231-savage+uses+force+wave.gif

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625311-star+wars+-+darth+maul+-+death+sentence+%232+011.jpg

 

And has demonstrated the ability to grip and throw with incredible force, for example here he nonchalantly tosses a Mandalorian soldier with enough kinetic force to damage and ignite his presumably durasteel jetpack:

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625226-savage+throws+a+mandalorian.gif

 

And well before his prime lifted two presumably extremely heavy stone obelisks:

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625134-savage+lifts+obelisks.gif

 

It will be of no issue for Savage to dislodge various objects in this arena and launch them with massive Force.

 

He's more than capable of matching if not surpassing these individuals in terms of telekinetic prowess.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Beniboybling

[LadyKulvax]

That is a massive assumption on your part, Meetra is highly proficient in the ability to dupport allues with the Force in combat, with Kreia it was special but hardly limited to her.

 

Except your argument is entirely based on your personally advantageous version of this fight, Dooku isn't 2 vs 1ing Leneer and Surik nor is Anakin going to solely take on the brothers. This is a 3 vs 3 battle and these Jedi are expert close combat proficients and will know themselves how to twist a battle to their advantage.

 

Furthermore you are vastly underestimating the Force defenses of Aryn Leneer and Meetra Surik, both of whom have successfully blocked Force Lightning and other potent Force attacks from Sith Lords such as Darth Malgus, Darth Traya and Darth Nyriss, more than comparable to the Count. He is by no means ragdolling nor telekinetically launching either Aryn or Meetra, on the contrary Anakin Skywalker has blasted Count Dooku with telekinetic attacks more than once and Anakin's allies are just as potent in this regard. I proved this on page one.

 

Moving on, whilst Savage Oppress has gotten by on taking down Jedi Council members, some of them quite formidable, he isn't doing the same to two of the Jedi's most powerful ever members. Darth Malgus, Atris, Sion, Darth Traya and Darth Nyriss are all more powerful and experienced than Savage is and he has nothing to throw at them that they haven't faced repeatedly before.

 

If Savage faces Anakin, he is facing a more powerful and greater swordsman than any Jedi he has faced before, he cannot defeat him with his brute strength nor his inferior skills.

 

If Savage faces Aryn, he is facing someone with intimate experience of dealing with an even stronger, more skilled and far more powerful bonified Sith Lord in Darth Malgus. He can't overwhelm her with brute strength, given her one handed flinging of Darth Malgus, he certainly isn't going to outskill her when Malgus couldn't and he lacks comparable Force feats to Aryn's tier whom throws half a dozen tram cars in mid run, worst of all she is on an entirely higher dueling speed than he is.

 

If Savage faces Meetra, she is a master of multiple forms and can confuse him with her lack of reliance to a single form, she has faced a similarly strong rage monster in Darth Sion and cut him down thrice despite his ability to constantly regenerate. She is far more cunning and much smarter, she has quick combat reflexes and advanced precognition, she is excellent at manipulating emotions on the field and will apply such techniques against Oppress whom is simply outmatched.

 

Savage cannot win in a contest against such high caliber opponents

[Beniboybling]

That is a massive assumption on your part, Meetra is highly proficient in the ability to dupport allues with the Force in combat, with Kreia it was special but hardly limited to her.

No it's merely a logical inference, the Exile formed strong Force bonds with her companions, a technique that has been associated with Battle Meditation and Battle Meld, as a result of these connections, the Force flowed all the more freely between herself and her companions, making it easy for her to amplify them with her strength.

 

That doesn't mean she can amplify anyone, and those others you refer to have have been masters of Battle Meditation and Battle Meld techniques, powers which as explained the Exile needed

to pull off. If the Exile needs to meditate to bolster their abilities, why would she not need to now?

Except your argument is entirely based on your personally advantageous version of this fight, Dooku isn't 2 vs 1ing Leneer and Surik nor is Anakin going to solely take on the brothers. This is a 3 vs 3 battle and these Jedi are expert close combat proficients and will know themselves how to twist a battle to their advantage.

Which Dooku will facilitate. That's the point. Unless your suggesting that Leneer, Surik or Anakin will be more adept at controlling the flow of the battle? On what basis? They are "expert close combat proficients"? Proof please.

Furthermore you are vastly underestimating the Force defenses of Aryn Leneer and Meetra Surik, both of whom have successfully blocked Force Lightning and other potent Force attacks from Sith Lords such as Darth Malgus, Darth Traya and Darth Nyriss, more than comparable to the Count. He is by no means ragdolling nor telekinetically launching either Aryn or Meetra, on the contrary Anakin Skywalker has blasted Count Dooku with telekinetic attacks more than once and Anakin's allies are just as potent in this regard. I proved this on page one.

I never claimed Dooku would be ragdolling anyone, I claimed that his more refined and expert mastery over telekinesis would make his use of the power much more effective, him being capable of using it without gestures, in situ, multi-tasking, and to great tactical advantage, below are some examples:

 

Dooku uses projectiles to stun and distract Anakin:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSO1SjHQfCA&t=0m18s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqeEjv1_eOc&t=0m43s

 

Dooku does the same here while simultaneously Force gripped Kenobi:

Anakin launched himself at Dooku's back—and the Count half turned, gesturing casually while holding Obi-Wan at bay with an elegant one handed bind. Chairs leapt up from the situation table and whirled toward Anakin's head. He slashed the first one in half contemptuously, but the second caught him across the knees and the third battered his shoulder and knocked him down.

 

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith novelisation

Dooku uses telekinesis without gesturing to block Ventress' attack:

 

 

Dooku repels Anakin's dust storm, blowing him away with a superior variant:

 

 

However bar Anakin, Dooku - who was ragdolled the likes of Ventress, Vos and Kenobi, is clearly superior. And of course capable of telekinetically launching anybody on the field, Kanan and Ezra were able to knock Vader on his @ss, it doesn't take that much, especially considering how easily Dooku was able to launch Kenobi:

 

He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall, but Dooku didn't have time to enjoy it.

 

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith novelisation

 

While Kenobi's bonelessly limp body was still tumbling toward the floor far below, Dooku sent a surge of energy through the Force. Kenobi's fall suddenly accelerated like a missile burning the last of its drives before impact. The Jedi Master struck the floor at a steep angle, skidded along it, and slammed into the wall so hard the hydrofoamed permacrete buckled and collapsed onto him.

 

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith novelisation

Add to that that none of his adversaries have used TK on such an efficient and tactical level, and Dooku has the clear advantage. This is without even accounting for Savage's telekinetic prowess, which I have already covered. But while we're at it, lets give a brief summary of Maul's telekinetic prowess as well, which is also profound:

 

He was capable of outright Force gripping Kenobi, much in the same way as Dooku:

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4253755-forcechokeobi-wan.jpg

 

A casual Force push from Maul was enough to take down ten soldiers:

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4254030-star+wars+-+darth+maul+-+death+sentence-033.jpg

 

And he could generate Force waves that could blow back entire armies, much in the same way as Windu:

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4254099-maul+force+wave1.jpg

 

Maul is easily in Savage's league as a Force User, and the league of his opponents as well. More importantly Dooku, Savage and Maul, all being Sith, will abuse their powers to a much greater extent to their Jedi adversaries, and indeed will be much more experienced in doing so, I'm afraid your team has no advantages here.

Moving on, whilst Savage Oppress has gotten by on taking down Jedi Council members, some of them quite formidable, he isn't doing the same to two of the Jedi's most powerful ever members. Darth Malgus, Atris, Sion, Darth Traya and Darth Nyriss are all more powerful and experienced than Savage is and he has nothing to throw at them that they haven't faced repeatedly before.

I never claimed that Savage could defeat them, but he is more than capable of contending with them and in fact did content with Anakin and drove him back indefinitely - despite having support from Kenobi.

 

This being after their embarrassing failure to stop him on Toydaria.

If Savage faces Anakin, he is facing a more powerful and greater swordsman than any Jedi he has faced before, he cannot defeat him with his brute strength nor his inferior skills.

 

If Savage faces Aryn, he is facing someone with intimate experience of dealing with an even stronger, more skilled and far more powerful bonified Sith Lord in Darth Malgus. He can't overwhelm her with brute strength, given her one handed flinging of Darth Malgus, he certainly isn't going to outskill her when Malgus couldn't and he lacks comparable Force feats to Aryn's tier whom throws half a dozen tram cars in mid run, worst of all she is on an entirely higher dueling speed than he is.

 

If Savage faces Meetra, she is a master of multiple forms and can confuse him with her lack of reliance to a single form, she has faced a similarly strong rage monster in Darth Sion and cut him down thrice despite his ability to constantly regenerate. She is far more cunning and much smarter, she has quick combat reflexes and advanced precognition, she is excellent at manipulating emotions on the field and will apply such techniques against Oppress whom is simply outmatched.

 

Savage cannot win in a contest against such high caliber opponents

And if despite Dooku's attempts to make otherwise, either one of them ends up isolating Savage, Maul will leapt to his aid if Savage is put on the back foot, and Dooku will cover for him. So their ability to defeat him alone is a moot point, and indeed in this respect a pair of 2 v 1s is an inevitability, even if Dooku doesn't initially have his way. Edited July 12, 2015 by Beniboybling

[LadyKulvax]

The Force flows freely between Kreia and the Exile because of their exceptionally strong Force bond, whilst the Exile had bonds with her apprentices with which the same circumstances were not shared. You are freely applying your own interpretation of a Force Bond and by extension implying that the Exile is restricted to solely Force bonds to implement powers other Jedi have used freely.

 

Whilst Count Dooku is very powerful, he is no more so than Darth Traya, Darth Nyriss or Darth Malgus and they entirely failed to implement overwhelming Force prowess to dispatch these Jedi, the only example of a temporary power advantage is when Darth Malgus caught Aryn with Force Lightning, but the circumstances caught her off and he was in a rage. Prior to this Aryn already displayed ability to defend against the same attack.

 

Simply put in a theoretical battle any weakness is important and if any member of this contest is a proverbial 'weakness' it is Savage Oppress whom has displayed unimpressive Force defenses and doesn't have the speed of either his allies or enemies here. He can be telekinetically abused, baited into mistakes or simply out-fought.

 

Anakin, Aryn and Meetra are all exceptionally durable and have displayed an unrelenting stamina and speed throughout their career. They can play this battle in the long term whereas their dark counterparts suffer from mental or physical shortcomings, costly in theoretical terms. With this multi-tiered arena on their side these advantages will be enhanced yet further.

 

In the end, all the Jedi need do is either cause 1 vs 1 fights or play a long term battle out and remove Savage, at which point the battle swings heavily in their favour.

[cs_zoltan]

Whilst Count Dooku is very powerful, he is no more so than Darth Traya, Darth Nyriss or Darth Malgus

 

http://i.imgur.com/DRSovrk.gif

[Selenial]

http://i.imgur.com/DRSovrk.gif

 

Not to mention Rayla's wrong regarding Malgus. While Leneer was enraged she stood a chance, while she wasn't she was entirely outclassed in the force...

[cs_zoltan]

Not to mention Rayla's wrong regarding Malgus. While Leneer was enraged she stood a chance, while she wasn't she was entirely outclassed in the force...

I didn't read the book, but wasn't also Malgus' prime during the False Emperor, not Deceived?

[Aurbere]

I didn't read the book, but wasn't also Malgus' prime during the False Emperor, not Deceived?

 

Most likely.

[Beniboybling]

The Force flows freely between Kreia and the Exile because of their exceptionally strong Force bond, whilst the Exile had bonds with her apprentices with which the same circumstances were not shared. You are freely applying your own interpretation of a Force Bond and by extension implying that the Exile is restricted to solely Force bonds to implement powers other Jedi have used freely.

Yet those bonds were still superior to anything the Jedi had yet seen, and indeed made even stronger by the Exile's Force wound. But if you have proof to support your claim by all means provide it, but in the only instance she uses the Force to augment the powers of others, is via meditation i.e the standard for most Jedi. Prove she is a unique case.

Whilst Count Dooku is very powerful, he is no more so than Darth Traya, Darth Nyriss or Darth Malgus and they entirely failed to implement overwhelming Force prowess to dispatch these Jedi, the only example of a temporary power advantage is when Darth Malgus caught Aryn with Force Lightning, but the circumstances caught her off and he was in a rage. Prior to this Aryn already displayed ability to defend against the same attack.

Irrelevant to the point, it's not the potency of the attacks that are important, but the means by which they are applied, Dooku will not attempt to batter him opponents down by through force, he'll use his abilities in a tactical and cunning manner to achieve the battlefield advantage. This is something neither Traya, Nyriss or Malgus attempted.

Simply put in a theoretical battle any weakness is important and if any member of this contest is a proverbial 'weakness' it is Savage Oppress whom has displayed unimpressive Force defenses and doesn't have the speed of either his allies or enemies here. He can be telekinetically abused, baited into mistakes or simply out-fought.

And naturally you have proof to support these claims, especially the highlighted.

 

I think I've adequately demonstrated Savage is more than capable of keeping pace.

Anakin, Aryn and Meetra are all exceptionally durable and have displayed an unrelenting stamina and speed throughout their career. They can play this battle in the long term whereas their dark counterparts suffer from mental or physical shortcomings, costly in theoretical terms. With this multi-tiered arena on their side these advantages will be enhanced yet further.

Now this takes the cake. Physical shortcomings? You don't appear to be aware who your dealing with.

 

Let's start with Maul, who at the age of 10 was left stranded on Mustafar with nothing but his training and the clothes of his back, for 17 days, he slept only twice during this period. And that was just the beginning, for his final test:

Sidious and Maul returned to Mustafar. For fourteen days, Sidious put Maul through a series of grueling physical tests. Maul defended himself against lightsaber wielding droids in the training room. Blindfolded, he threw daggers at robotic targets, which threw the daggers back at him. He was blindfolded again before he climbed into a starship flight simulator wired with disciplinary electrodes. He wore a sensory-deprivation suit when he ran through a maze that was lined with razor-edged walls, and also when he was deposited into a previously unexplored Mustafarian cave. In locked chambers, he was exposed to extreme temperatures and deprived of food. For each test, he drew strength from the dark side of the Force.

 

--Taken from The Wrath of Darth Maul

However this was merely the first stage of his ordeal:

 

When the fourteen days were over, Maul was exhausted. His entire body ached as he stood before Sidious in the meeting room. Not only had he passed every test, he had destroyed every test. However, his Master always expected more from him, so he was not entirely surprised when Sidious said, "Because you have survived the preliminaries, you may proceed to the actual test to become a Sith Lord."

 

Maul willed his body to remain standing.

 

"I am sending you to a planet in the Outer Rim," Sidious continued. "It is made up of three kinds of terrain. Desert, swamp and mountains. You will have at least three matches on each terrain. I have sent a fleet of assassin droids to attack you. Each is programmed with different strategies. Some will work together. Some will work alone. They are all are programmed to kill."

 

Maul turned to face his master. Although Maul remained silent, the fire in his eyes betrayed his surprise. And his excitement.

 

Sidious noticed Maul's reaction. "That is correct. I am prepared to lose what I most value. So must you be to become a Sith. You must be prepared to lose your own life in order to win.

 

Maul nodded. "I understand, my Master."

 

"You will have to survive for a month," Sidious added. "You will only have a survival pack."

 

Despite his exhaustion, Maul felt exhilarated. He was determined to prove he was the best apprentice in the history of the Sith.

 

...

 

The assassin droids were relentless. Programmed to fight to the death, they had blasters built into their chests and hands. No matter how hard Maul tried to conceal himself or his desperately improvised camps, the droids found him. They never slept, never allowed Maul to sleep for very long, never hesitated before they pounced. When Maul did manage to rest and recover, he fell asleep knowing he would be awakened by an attack.

 

The droids drove him into the frozen mountains and across the burning deserts. Maul's survival pack was torn from his back and lost in one battle. And after twenty days, Maul realized he was at risk of losing something else. His mind.

 

Because the attacks never stopped.

 

Maul was beyond paranoid. He had reason to believe that every sound, every shape, and every shadow on Hypori was a potential threat.

 

He grew thin and his strength began to ebb. He foraged for food when he could. Life was scarce on Hypori, but he found a few small animals, killed them, and ate them raw, because he dared not risk building a fire that would attract more droids.

 

It was when he was trying to eat a tough-skinned lizard at the base of a cliff that two droids attacked. Maul defeated both droids but sustained a blaster wound to his thigh. Limping into a ravine, he found a large cave and hauled his body into it. Maul knew he had to recover before he could fight again. But without his survival pack, he had no healing bacta or bandages. The wound festered. The pain was blinding. He listened for approaching droids but heard none. The days blurred, but Maul was almost certain that a full month had passed since he had arrived on Hypori. As he fell into and out of restless sleep, Maul began to wonder if his Master had forgotten him.

 

--Taken from The Wrath of Darth Maul

Maul not only survived this trial, but summoned the strength to attack and press his Master:

Sidious snickered. "Can you understand? Focus. If there can be only one apprentice, then one of you must die. Who do you think I have chosen to die, Maul?"

 

Maul felt his rage flowing through his veins, pumping energy into every muscle. He felt so powerful that he believed he could accomplish anything. And more than anything else, he wanted his Master's blood.

 

Maul sprang at Sidious. Sidious barely missed the first blow from Maul's lightsaber, an upward swing that aimed to rip Sidious in half. Maul swung again but Sidious deflected the blow and retreated. As Maul moved across the rough cave floor, sweat stung his eyes, but he did not stumble. He somersaulted through the air, his lightsaber whirling in the darkness. Sidious raised his lightsaber to parry the next move, which was so powerful it made him stagger backward. As Maul struck, he thought, I'm going to kill him.

 

Sidious parried every blow, but Maul could tell his Master was working hard to keep him at bay. As Sidious backed up against the wall, he said, "You want to kill me? You want to kill your Master?"

 

--Taken from The Wrath of Darth Maul

Do you really think cushy Temple life compares? Even their combined battlefield experience wouldn't give them comparable levels of stamina. Sidious trained his apprentice to physical perfection, he will not tire.

 

Let's not forget that it was Maul who held off the combined force of Jinn & Kenobi, two exceptional offensive-orientated duelists, in a marathon engagement, in which it was Jinn that ended up exhausted, not Maul.

 

Next let's focus on Savage, who after being transformed into a physical beast by Nightsister magick too shared his Brother's immense stamina. Before the peak of his ability Savage tanked five successive blasts of Dooku's lightning and continued fighting regardless, dominating them with his rage and proceeding to drive back Anakin and Kenobi with no signs of exhaustion - before being subsequently subjected to omni-directional blasterfire from over 20 shooters.

 

And despite that he managed to muster the strength to make it all the way to Dathomir. Savage is a powerhouse just like his brother, and far from growing tired will only get stronger and stronger as his rage increases. The same can be said, as evidenced by Maul, who even when driven to physical exhaustion, remained empowered by rage.

 

And finally Dooku, who despite being 80 years old, remains in prime physical condition:

 

Physically, the Count's age was rarely a handicap. Deft as he had become with the Force-unimaginably more subtle than the boy who had watched water-skeeters in the Jedi gardens all those years ago-he wore his eighty-three standard years better than most humans half his age. He was still in superb physical shape, senses keen, health undiminished by even the memory of a cold.

 

--Taken from Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

And is also stated to have excellent and indefinite stamina:

He's old, Anakin thought. Maybe I can just outlast him. But the power of the dark side flowed around him, denying that possibility. The dark side would keep Dooku going for as long as he needed.

 

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith Junior Novelization

Let's be realistic, if the Jedi attempt to outlast their opponents, they will lose. Unless of course you can substantiate your claims of superior speed and stamina with proof. I can only guess as what mental shortcomings you refer to.

In the end, all the Jedi need do is either cause 1 vs 1 fights or play a long term battle out and remove Savage, at which point the battle swings heavily in their favour.

Unfortunately you've failed to prove how this will be accomplished, and as I've explained, pressuring Savage will merely increase the likelihood of 2 v 2s - winning a long term battle being simply out of the question.

 

Your also assuming that Dooku & co. will give them a chance, they will not. For reasons I will now explain.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Beniboybling