SWTOR Duelling Tournament - Heats/Round 1A: Silenceo vs Cs_Zoltan

[Silenceo]

I have some questions before I make my decision.

 

1. I haven't seen arguments on using the environment, or on the arena itself. Idk maybe I missed it but I would like to see them.

2. Sil, can you give me a quick tl:dr on what saber forms Jerec and Desann use, besides Jerec's Makashi.

3. Zoltan, how would Obi Wan protect himself from force attacks when his barriers are noticeably weaker than the rest of your team?

4.Sil again, how will your team plan on handling Shaak Ti, who gave Starkiller a run for his money?

5. Last one for Zoltan, Jerec has been known to use mental attacks against his opponents, how would your team respond?

 

1. I intend to get to that, and I have actually started to hint heavily towards that. Essentially the air will be FULL of objects flying all over the place. Such as those nice bronzonium statues... I bet they hurt... But yeah, I intend to make a few scenarios that go beyond the opening volleys tomorrow.

 

2. Jerec:

 

- Mastered Makashi

- Heavily hinted towards Niman (Due to heavy use of force attacks, and how he uses force attacks very often)

- Taught apprentices the following (which indicates at the very least a working knowledge)

-- Jar'kai (Boc)

-- Djem So (Sariss, Gorc)

-- Ataru (Boc, Pic)

-- Shii Cho (Yun)

-- Makashi (All)

-- Niman (All, I say this one because of just like himself, they incorporated force powers into their attack sequences)

-- Soresu (Sariss, Yun)

-- Trispzest (Maw, he lost his legs, and he was formerly a practitioner of Juyo, however, Jerec taught him how to use force Flight so well that Maw could maintain it indefinitely. Which is where Trispzest comes in.)

-- Tràkata (Boc)

- It is good to note that Yun was only a Dark Jedi for a single year, yet made great strides. He had already started to learn how to use the Force Destruction technique, albeit very clumsily and ineffectively.

- The reason Juyo was never taught to his apprentices, I am not 100% sure. However, Maw already had mastered Juyo before his conversion, and it could merely of been a matter of none of his other apprentices fitting such a style.

 

- Something else to keep in mind, is that despite his appearance, Jerec is NOT weak physically.

Jerec had grabbed the front of Hoole’s tunic and lifted him off he ground with one hand. Tash realized that the Imperial must be immensely strong to overcome the force of the gravboots with just one arm.

 

-- Galaxy Of Fear: Spore

This strength feat is of course without any amps other than perhaps standard force augmented strength. Meaning no rage, no battlemind, nor draining of other force users.

 

Desann:

 

- Heavy focus on Djem So

- Shii Cho (basic learned at Luke's academy)

- Niman (basic learned at Luke's Academy)

- Ataru (use of acrobatic saber strikes)

- Sokan (Basically makes use of his environment often and efficiently)

 

 

4. For the most part, if Obi-Wan is unable to defend himself and he gets killed, with Jerec and Desann holding her together, making full use of their telepathy to keep their coordination high. Another method, which Desann would likely use if forced to face Ti alone, is produce Force Illusions enmasse and hide among them. Do note, it is not required for one to be able to mind trick someone to produce force illusions to them. It is very likely that Ti will see right through it, but it will very likely buy him the few seconds he needs. It is stated to not normally work on force users, HOWEVER, Desann has done so before during his attack on the Jedi Temple on Yavin. Nor does he need to dominate Ti's mind or even have the illusions appear for long, since force illusions react to all of a beings senses except for touch, unless they believe them to be real. In other words, it is very much as if Desann is projecting moving holograms all over the place. Of the instances of Illusions that we have seen, I do not recall them being dispelled merely due to ones mental strength passively, but it must be active and driven through will power. Will power Ti no doubt possesses. The key thing to remember, is that how strong it is determines whether or not the view will know they are illusions right off the bat or not. Now, I will say that Ti is likely to know they are Illusions almost immediately, but even then they will serve their purposes since it would still delay her for a few moments.

 

Side Note: To make it shorter, Desann would do something like this, intended only to distract her.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Silenceo

[cs_zoltan]

1. I haven't seen arguments on using the environment, or on the arena itself. Idk maybe I missed it but I would like to see them.

3. Zoltan, how would Obi Wan protect himself from force attacks when his barriers are noticeably weaker than the rest of your team?

5. Last one for Zoltan, Jerec has been known to use mental attacks against his opponents, how would your team respond?

 

1. There's nothing really special about this arena, it's a confined space, which will work for my team. I already covered why in 2 posts:

(under Team synergy and strengths) http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8276294&postcount=11

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8277916&postcount=58

 

3. Sigh, I covered this topic numerous times, but I guess you were busy with your own debate so I go over it one more time: Obi-Wan doesn't have weak barriers, at least not that weak that some of you presume. He can be grabbed by a Maul tier force user yes, but Maul couldn't outright kill him with it, nor even wound him.

Dooku managed to BFR Kenobi only on his second try. And he only succeeded because of part luck, part force power, and part dueling skill. He force pushed an already falling Kenobi (he was falling only because of Dooku's dueling skill and environmental advantage) and in the end the hydrofoamed permacrete fall on him.

In Sil's team only Vader has the skill and power to hurt Kenobi, but it will take effort. A casual TK won't do jack squat. And he can't just go ahead and prepare for a strong TK, because Windu would intercept it. At that point Vader either breaks off his attack on Kenobi or dies. Same with Jerec's Force Destruction. Jerec couldn't kill a pre-prime Kyle with it when he aimed to kill, and if he starts the fight occupied with Kenobi he risks getting blitzed by Ti.

 

5. Jerec never successfully used mental attacks on the caliber of my team. Windu was second only to Yoda, Ti and Kenobi have really good mental feats. You can't just toy around with the mind of a Jedi High Council member. Jerec (nor Desann) doesn't have neither the accolades nor the feats to suggest it.

[cs_zoltan]

Sil it would be a good time to start backing up your claims with quotes. I did searching on Desann and nothing suggested he knows any of those forms.

You claimed lots of things in this debate, but didn't provide quote for even half of them.

[Silenceo]

Sil it would be a good time to start backing up your claims with quotes. I did searching on Desann and nothing suggested he knows any of those forms.

You claimed lots of things in this debate, but didn't provide quote for even half of them.

 

Except the vast majority of what I have claimed has already been backed up by previous links, panels, quotes, and videos. As for the styles, its really very obvious and I explained it as I listed them... Nor are quotes needed for everything unless you want to say we can only figure how this will go if they have already fought?

 

In Lukes Academy Niman and Shii Cho were the basic forms that EVERYONE learned. Djem So was Desann's preferred style which you can tell just from his combat, mentality, and if need be, his equipment. The last one is not really a form but rather a mentality, which he has shown in Jedi Outcast whenever he faced an opponent, and he used the terrain to his advantage.

 

As for Jerec, the forms that he taught his apprentices couldn't come from no where, and since it was in fact him that taught them, he would of needed at least a working knowledge of such. Which considering "Knowledge is Power" for him, it is not hard to figure that he at least knows that much concerning the other saber forms. He was said to have learned everything of use from the Jedi Archive before Order 66, and lightsaber forms would definitely fall under that. I am not saying he has mastered them, but that he has at least a working knowledge of them enough to teach them, though that would also help defend against them. Heck, it is a guarantee that Jerec knows Shii Cho because that is the basic starting form for all Jedi as well.

 

*Sigh* This is the Kinetite all over again... They show clear signs of knowing how to do it, because they have done it, and you say that they have not and can not... Really doesn't make sense considering it is among their accomplishments.

 

Side Note: Going to be out for a few hours, try not to leave more than 3 walls of texts for me to respond to eh?

 

After Thought: One last thing before I go. Conversation between Luke and Kyle after Luke fought Desann. Note the wording https://youtu.be/jcTuClbfrac?t=93

 

Kyle: "I thought you said not to fight Desann alone?"

 

Luke: "I didn't have a choice. I never even felt him coming."

 

I for one don't think Luke is one to exaggerate, and if he says that you shouldn't go and fight someone alone, when the only two are Kyle and Luke... Well, that is still quite a statement. Though being able to hide his force presence will come in handy here.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Silenceo

[cs_zoltan]

Except the vast majority of what I have claimed has already been backed up by previous links, panels, quotes, and videos.

 

Well I just went over the whole thread and you only used a handful of quotes, and none on Desann. Which is funny because I got called out numerous times about quotes in this thread, by you included.

[Silenceo]

Well I just went over the whole thread and you only used a handful of quotes, and none on Desann. Which is funny because I got called out numerous times about quotes in this thread, by you included.

 

As I also said previously. Not every character is lucky enough to have books written about him. In regards to Desann, all of his feats and abilities have been cited. Such as in the videos, from observation, from his equipment, from the wiki, and ect. He definitely has more combat data than other characters who DO have books on them. Such as Nomi Sunrider. We don't even know what form she used other than Shii Cho... Yet she is regarded as a great jedi of her era.

[cs_zoltan]

It's not my problem you chose a not well known character. I won't just gona give leeway because you can't back up your claim. Desann's wiki page only says he uses the strong style, beyond that I'll need quotes that he mastered anything.

[cs_zoltan]

I prepared my closing statement Sel, I'm gona start raiding shortly but can post it when you want. So you can call this whenever as far as I'm concerned.

[Silenceo]

It's not my problem you chose a not well known character. I won't just gona give leeway because you can't back up your claim. Desann's wiki page only says he uses the strong style, beyond that I'll need quotes that he mastered anything.

 

I am not saying give leeway, I am saying that I have already posted what needed to be posted to show that he has such abilities and such. In essence I was saying, "He doesn't have much, but what was needed, has been said."

 

Our communication skills... do not mix well, have had miscommunication and misunderstandings all throughout this match...

Edited June 28, 2015 by Silenceo

[Selenial]

I'm ready for stage 2 then, just post your final arguments. I'd like to take this time to quietly remind you of rule 7 however;

 

7. No flaming, trolling or aggressive debating, keep it chill people.

 

Just a warning.

[cs_zoltan]

So here's my concluding post:

 

Not sure where to begin, so I go over how the fight could occure and proving my point along the way.

 

The two teams start 8m apart. That's practically no distance for a force user. At this point Sil's team might try to take out Kenobi before the fight begins. This won't work for several reasons.

• My team has the speed advantage over anyone but Vader.
  
• Kenobi's barrier is fine.
  
• Mentality.
  

Expanding upon that I go one by one.

Jerec and Desann lack speed feats, Ti and Windu also being stronger than both and Kenobi stronger than Desann in the force would suggest they have the advantage. And I have feats to back up my claim as well. With that out of the way Sil's team can't really afford waving hands around in the beginning or they risk getting blitzed.

I can't keep saying this enough, Kenobi's barriers are fine. He can get force gripped and pushed by a Dooku tier force user, but that's above his pay grade. Show me a force user who can't be grabbed by someone stronger than himself/herself....Exactly. Moving on, a casual TK or FD won't harm Kenobi, he has his barriers and his endurance. Need I repeat myself that a powerful Dooku push on an already falling Kenobi followed up by a collapsing hydrofoamed permacrete only caused a concussion? And that was because of Dooku's skill and power. He had the high ground, he could create distance from Anakin and could kick Kenobi coming up the stairs, he also had luck with the hydrofoamed permacrete.

Lastly mentality. Vader is wary/cautious of Kenobi ever since their duel on Mustafar. They had an actual rematch on the Death Star and Vader didn't use any TK.

 

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Feats/quotes backing up my above argument:

 

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/124590/4082262-3782424-star%2Bwars%2Btales%2B013%2B-%2B53%2Bvianna%2Bd%27pow.jpg

Vastor's speed was blinding, Mace's was invisible. Not one of those slaps connected. Before Vastor could even focus his eyes, Mace had hit him six times

From there he [Galen] jumped up again, angling away from her [shaak Ti] to avoid giving the Jedi the advantage of height, but she was there ahead of him, driving him back down with a series of blows so rapid he barely caught them all.

"Very well, then," the Jedi [Obi-Wan] said, and shot straight upward over Dooku's head so fast it seemed he'd vanished.

He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall, but Dooku didn't have time to enjoy it.

 

...

 

That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze and now Kenobi was back in the picture.

Dooku was in motion, landing a spinning side-stamp that folded Skywalker in half; he used his last burst of dark power to continue his spin into a blindingly fast wheel-kick that brought his heel against the point of Kenobi's chin with a crack like the report of a huge-bore slugthrower, knocking the Jedi Master back down the stairs. Sounded like he'd broken his neck.

Wouldn't that be lovely?

There was no sense in taking chances, however.

While Kenobi's bonelessly limp body was still tumbling toward the floor far below, Dooku sent a surge of energy through the Force. Kenobi's fall suddenly accelerated like a missile burning the last of its drives before impact. The Jedi Master struck the floor at a steep angle, skidded along it,and slammed into the wall so hard the hydrofoamed permacrete buckled and collapsed onto him.

Bad as Obi-Wan looked, Anakin had stood over the bodies of too many friends on too many battlefields to be panicked by a little blood. One touch to Obi-Wan's throat confirmed the strength of his pulse, and that touch also let Anakin's Force perception flow through the whole body of his friend. His breathing was strong and regular, and no bones were broken: this was a concussion, no more.

 

 

After the fighting begins there are more than one viable scenarios. If Vader and Jerec tries to OHK Kenobi they leave themself open to Windu and Ti, and they will not hesitate to save their friend. They are both extremly fast, but so is Vader. I have no illusions that Windu would blitz Vader, but he is a threat to him. Vader either breaks off his attack on Kenobi or he dies. Same with Jerec. Even a prepared Galen Marek, who is stronger and faster than Jerec, was recoiled by the kinetic energy Ti can put out. And he had the a better suited style to take on Ti with his Shien and Soresu. Jerec's Makashi can't handle Ti even if prepared to take the hit, if he tries to kill Kenobi in the same time? No chance. Makashi's weakness is power duelists, which Ti proved she is, and Jerec didn't overcome that weakness. So I don't think it's a viable tactic from Sil's team to try OHK Kenobi at the start.

Failing that what could happen is Vader goes for Kenobi because of his hate. Ti goes for Jerec. Which leaves Desann free for Windu. We know that a post prime Kenobi was a serious threat to Vader, make no mistake, only because he prefered Soresu Kenobi was a deadly duelist. As a master of Soresu, and because he is closer in terms of force power to Vader than Desann is to Windu he'll survive for quite some time longer than Desann. Windu also has Vaapad and Shatterpoint. I doubt Desann would last even a fraction as long vs Windu as Kenobi does vs Vader. I already covered Jerec vs Ti above. With Jerec and Desann out of the way the fight is practically over.

Last viable scenario I can think of is Windu and Vader duel it out as the powerhouses of the teams. And in turn Kenobi takes on Desann. At this point I'd like to note how bad the confinded space will affect Sil's team and how it will help mine.

Vader lacks mobility, I'm not saying he will die because of that, but it is gona affect him. Desann uses the strong style, which is notably hindered vs fast duelist, and all of my team is fast. He is also big and has a big sword. Such things are not good in a CQC fight, he'll have to be wary of his swings or he is risking harming his teammates as well. As a wise man once said, long sword is a bad option in close quarters. Jerec's problem with confined space will be that he can't use his force powers without potentially harming his team, and he didn't overcome Makashi's weakness of dueling more than one person. While technically he won't constantly fight a 2on1 duel, but he can get tag teamed by Ti and Kenobi.

And as for my team's strength: Kenobi mastered Soresu and Shii-Cho, both allows him to fight outnumbered. He also overcome Ataru's weaknesses as you can see in his fight with Maul and Savage, these weaknesses are confined space and being outnumbered. He also has profound sense that he employes it in combination with his tactical mind to read the battlefield and use it to his own advantage. Shaak Ti also overcome her forms weakeness of being outnumbered as you can see in her duel with the Magnaguards. And thanks to his togruta abilities she is the best fighter in group combat. Windu doesn't have any notable advantage or disadvantage here.

 

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Feats/quotes backing up my above argument:

 

 

She smiled in mockery. "Are you prepared to meet your fate?" Then her lightsaber was lit and she was spinning through the air toward him, striking downward as she fell.

 

The apprentice simultaneously backflipped and blocked her opening blow. The force of it surprised him, and the recoil threw him backward. His hood caught on one of the sarlacc's teeth, and he tore it impatiently away before the snag could interfere with his defense. Shaak Ti's lightsaber was a jagged blue blur between them. He blocked her as best he could until he had his balance again.

He [Vader] did not wish them to interfere, but to even warn them of would take concentration that he could not afford at the moment. Should his attention falter, Obi-Wan could kill him in the blink of an eye.

Despite his reduced mobility, Vader had little difficulty defending himself from duelists utilizing fast-paced styles like Ataru, as he demonstrated against both Starkiller and Jedi Master An'ya Kuro.

Desann typically fought with a variation of the Strong style when engaged in lightsaber combat, taking advantage of the naturally superior strength and reach conferred by his formidable Chistori size.

One major combat advantage the Dark Jedi had was the size of his lightsaber itself. Its size was meant to fit the physical height and size of Desann.

Obi-Wan Kenobi was a legendary Jedi Guardian who attained the rank of master, and therefore naturally was an exceptionally skilled lightsaber duelist who in particular achieved absolute mastery over the Soresu style and was perhaps the greatest master of the style in current galactic history – or at least of his era according to Mace Windu. Kenobi’s mastery over lightsaber combat also extended to mastery over Ataru, Shien, Shii-Cho and Niman, the latter of which may have proved a gateway to his master over Jar’Kai – altogether making him a well-rounded and effective warrior who proved himself against many deadly adversaries such as Darth Maul, General Grievous and Darth Vader.

Force Sense: much like his ability in telekinesis and specifically the Force push, Kenobi’s ability in this field was considerable – making him totally aware of all his surroundings both Force based and not – and therefore more able to manipulate the battlefield to his advantage, and avoid being ambushed or lured into a trap.

His [Kenobi's] mastery of Force Sense was also incredible. As noted in the Revenge of the Sith novelization, he could feel everything around him including people, droids, and even the fabric of the Chancellor’s clothing.

Shaak Ti fights at her best in group combat as she is biologically adapted for moving in dense crowds. She darts with ease through chaotic melees where others struggle amidst the complexity of movements.

As a Togruta, Shaak Ti is one of the best Jedi fighters in group combat. Her hollow head montrals sense space ultrasonically, sharpening her spatial awareness. Where others struggle with the complexity of movements, Shaak Ti darts with ease.

 

 

Lastly I'd like to say a few words about Jerec's sith party tricks. He (and Vader) has Consume Essence, that feeds on the negative emotions, but he won't find many here. We are talking about jedi here. Only Windu will show any through Vaapad, but Vaapad reflects the darkness back at the user, and he can channel more than one person simultaneously. His Force Cloud won't be much use here either, because it can be resisted, and if someone gona resist such a thing it would be Jedi High Council caliber force users. Lastly his amulet. This again can be resisted and only help him being detected in the force, that's not much after all. His mind tricks also very unlikely to work on someone like Kenobi and co. Jerec afterall never managed to pull such a thing off on their caliber.

 

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Feats/quotes backing up my above argument:

 

 

He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt.

He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear. Easily, almost effortlessly, he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon.

...

Mace leveled his blade. "You lost for the same reason the Sith always lose: defeated by your own fear."

Palpatine lifted his head.

His eyes smoked with hate.

"Fool," he said.

He lifted his arms, his robes of office spreading wide into raptor's wings, his hands hooking into talons.

"Fool!" His voice was a shout of thunder. "Do you think the fear you feel is mine?"

Taozin amulets, also called Taozin skin nodules, were amulets made out of the skin of Taozin. They blurred and clouded Force senses so their wearers could not be detected easily by a Force-sensitive. Lorn Pavan used a nodule for a sneak attack against the Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Maul in 32 BBY. However, despite the protection of the nodule, Maul's Force tracking skills finally let him track down and kill Pavan after several weeks.

"His heavy brow overshadows the empty recesses that normally embrace eyes. Jerec has the uncanny power to absorb and overshadow one’s connection to the Force… like a dark cloud. A deep, empowering grasp of your will is what you need." -Qu Rahn as a Force ghost, to Kyle Katarn

 

 

[Silenceo]

Just to go over a few things that are likely to happen:

 

Terrain:

 

- Jerec most likely knows this area best, since he was once apprenticed to Jocasta Nu, the Jedi Librarian. Even when he became a Jedi Master he still would return here after his archeological finds to catelog the data, and while the other Jedi likely know it pretty well, I do not think they would know it as well as a Librarians apprentice. What effect this would have is questionable, however.

 

- Darth Vader tends to make objects in an area.... Fly... during saber combat, such as we see during ESB when he faces Luke. In this situation, there is nearly an unlimited supply of priceless datadiscs, datapads, recordings, ect. Not to mention those wonderful statues. What I wonder, is how willing on the Jedi to destroy their history in their efforts to fight the Dark Side? Would they alter their tactics at all?

 

- Desann, despite your claims that he is bad in tight spaces, has made good use of environments in the past to his advantage such as when he trapped Katarn by collapsing the bridge and force pushed Luke. In fact, due to Desanns intellect (one of the only 3 in the mythos to develop a way to make people force sensitive) it would not be far fetched that he fights this battle less with his immense brawn, but instead with his calculating mind. For example, if he does end up having to face Kenobi, he is unlikely to fall for his tricks that the Jedi tended to use, which constituted essentially of giving ground until he could deliver a devistating counter attack. However, knowing how to use the environment himself, such a situation would either not appear, or Desann would break off, possibly pushing Kenobi before doing so. That is of course, if Kenobi survives the opening volleys.

 

Mentality:

 

- Windu has rarely ever been shown to try and blitz someone, and has actually had a very held back approach if you observe the majority of his duels. Against Talzin for example he was against an unknown, so he did not try anything risky or over extending. Not to say that he is hesitant, he is not. Merely that he is cautious for the most part and much like Vader, does not go all in unless he and his opponent are equals or a threat to themselves.

 

- Ti has shown a rather aggressive mindset in the past, however, need I remind you of the multiple defeats that Ti has suffered throughout her career? Bested by Grievous thrice, allowed Galen the victory, and has no less than 3 different deaths at the very least. She is a great duelist, this I grant you, however, she has the worst track record of the Jedi. Most die once, maybe twice. However, three times or more? Some of the writers may have something against her, granted, but she has proven to be no match for General Grievous, being defeated by him twice, and killed once. She was once thought killed in the Jedi Temple by Anakin Skywalker, and her last one is on Felucia, where she forfeits the duel. In regards to the quotes regarding her saber skills you quoted, not one of them compares them to other duelists specifically. Nor do they indicate that she has defeated the weaknesses of her two forms, since we must take CW with a truck of salt. Last, but not least, as I have wondered in the past, what was the time difference between Galen facing Ti and Galen facing Vader? I ask merely because he grows much between those times. Add to that, that Vader exponentially became faster, and after TFUII, increased his mastery of the blade by leagues... (The quotes are a little lengthy, but I can provide them if you wish) Add to that the time Jerec was compared to Vader was soon after TFUII.

 

- Obi-Wan very defensive minded, usually going on the defensive waiting for his opponent to make a mistake that he can exploit, and the best darn Soresu practitioner I know of. However, while his counter attacks are effective, they are not used liberally and require an opening to be left, which is the issue since he has had issues with Dooku's Makashi in the past, and while Dooku > Jerec in saber skill, that is not his ball park. Back to Kenobi, much like other participants here, he will make use of the environment, likely leading one away into a narrow area where his Soresu will be most effective, playing the clock. However, if he does make it past the opener and attempt this, it is likely he would be against Jerec, who could telekentically thrash him once he was "Lured away" from the others.

 

- Darth Vader calculated, collected, and keeping his emotions under control he would be quite at ease in such a fight, in so much that facing off against Master Windu wouldn't cause any sort of alarm nor concern. Which partly comes from his vast experience of slaughtering Jedi in a multitude of ways. Due to how controled his emotions became after the disaster of Mustafar, Windu would have very little to draw on at all, which could cause him issues. However, Vader is most likely to attempt to keep Windu close to Ti in order to keep the two threats in sight, if one turns away from their opponent however, it would be capitalized on by their own opponent. If Vader does manage to get distance on Windu, whether it be a push, a throw, or he merely tripped, he could then turn and help deal with Ti.

 

- Jerec would be thinking very much like a sorcerer, distance, power, and force abilities. However, as shown in depictions of him in combat, he is not afraid to fight close and personal, often getting satisfaction from it in fact. Unlike most sorcerers he is not lax in his saber skills, and his mentality has always been to obtain and perfect his power and knowledge. Makashi was one such thing. One move that is incredibly common with him, is in fact Force Lightning between his saber strikes, which if it gets past his opponents guard, would leave an opening. While not as formidable as Darth Vader, his experience as a Jedi Hunter would still aid him tremendously in this fight.

 

- Desann while he was a former Jedi, his mind set has always been towards power and ones inner strength. In this matter, he would most likely see the Jedi as strong warriors and wish to test himself against them, however, since he does not know them he would only learn through combat. While this could be a down side, it also means that Desann would not be reckless and instead would attempt to gauge his opponents early on. Whether it be by using Force Illusion (which doesn't actually need to breach mental defenses to be used) or attempting to keep pace with them, he would be weighing them and coming up with a solution the entire time. He may be a lizard, but he is as cunning as he is brutishly strong.

 

Meh, that should be enough opinionated speculation of each combatants mentality in this battle for now...

 

Side Note: Seeing how you seem to have called for closing arguments, might as well count this as mine. Bit busy leveling another trooper and I am at one of the good parts.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Silenceo

[cs_zoltan]

I know you said Sel that no replies to the final argument, but I can't resist.

Side Note: Seeing how you seem to have called for closing arguments, might as well count this as mine. Bit busy leveling another trooper and I am at one of the good parts.

 

That better not be a vanguard, their animations are sucky

[Silenceo]

I know you said Sel that no replies to the final argument, but I can't resist.

 

 

That better not be a vanguard, their animations are sucky

 

Commando actually, just now heading to Corellia to prepare to storm the Bastion. Once this is done, I will have reached my goal of 2 of each adv class to lvl 50 at least. (Alternating between specs for each character to specialize, no 2 adv class on the same side, so one Imp one Rep... You know, the fun way.)

 

After this, all that will leave is leveling toons that use the middle skill trees... That I will have to think on, since I will have to decide between each adv class for each, since you know, limited slots per server.Wish I could use more slots for this one server, and have none for other servers... Seeing how I am a 1 server player.

 

That said... Darth Nox > All. In regards to companions, Khem Val >> All. Together? Nox + Khem > Galaxy.

 

Side Note: This new expansion is exactly what I have been wanting for a LONG time, and by the time it arrives, I will have at least 16 guys ready to experiment with the possibilities. ... What? I don't spend ALL of my time working on Conquest or searching for quotes.

 

_rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes:

Edited June 28, 2015 by Silenceo

[cs_zoltan]

***** please, Gault Rennow is the best companion.

 

inb4 we break the 7th rule while discussing companions.

Edited June 28, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[Silenceo]

***** please, Gault Rennow is the best companion.

 

inb4 we break the 7th rule while discussing companions.

 

Gault? That one horn? He is nice, sure, but Khem is just... Epic. That said, Gault does >> Andronikas. That pirate, says he will pilot my ship, and I never use him... Every cutscene with the ship moving, it is NOT him flying! Free loader! Oh, and while it is an odd combo... Deception spec + HK-51 is pretty devastating dps wise when soloing. Even more so if I want to ambush a republic player. They melt... I have always wondered how fast they would melt if I got HK-51 equipped with mods and such from pvp gear... In other words...

 

"Together, we shall ruuule the *insert random area I am in* as assassin and droid!" (Evil laugh)

[tunewalker]

Commando actually, just now heading to Corellia to prepare to storm the Bastion. Once this is done, I will have reached my goal of 2 of each adv class to lvl 50 at least. (Alternating between specs for each character to specialize, no 2 adv class on the same side, so one Imp one Rep... You know, the fun way.)

 

After this, all that will leave is leveling toons that use the middle skill trees... That I will have to think on, since I will have to decide between each adv class for each, since you know, limited slots per server.Wish I could use more slots for this one server, and have none for other servers... Seeing how I am a 1 server player.

 

That said... Darth Nox > All. In regards to companions, Khem Val >> All. Together? Nox + Khem > Galaxy.

 

Side Note: This new expansion is exactly what I have been wanting for a LONG time, and by the time it arrives, I will have at least 16 guys ready to experiment with the possibilities. ... What? I don't spend ALL of my time working on Conquest or searching for quotes.

 

_rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes:

 

 

 

Sorry, but for me Nox and Khem are just behind another excellent pair (also to me its not Nox... its Occulus) and that combo is of course HoT and T7-01... T7 is adorable every time he does his little beeps and I read what he says I want to pinch his little non-existent metallic cheeks.

 

 

Edit: am I supposed to be voting now?

Edited June 28, 2015 by tunewalker

[Silenceo]

Sorry, but for me Nox and Khem are just behind another excellent pair (also to me its not Nox... its Occulus) and that combo is of course HoT and T7-01... T7 is adorable every time he does his little beeps and I read what he says I want to pinch his little non-existent metallic cheeks.

 

 

Edit: am I supposed to be voting now?

 

T7 and HoT are a great combo, I grant you that. However, they are nothing compared to...

 

*Drum roll*

 

DS Wrath and DS Jeassa (sp?)

 

Don't get me wrong, I love T7, but after a while those adorable beeps, turned into a desire to tinker with his systems...

[cs_zoltan]

Dem spectators are so shy.

[raandomname]

(also to me its not Nox... its Occulus)

Yeah for me too. Weird. I actually think that Oculus sounds much better tbh.

Edited June 29, 2015 by raandomname

[Beniboybling]

So are we moving on to the second stage? I think an official announcement is in order...

[raandomname]

One thing that I would like clarification on is whether the Vader-telekineseis-Jerec-FD-OHK on Kenobi would hypothetically be able to killl him, if we assume that they are able to pull it of without being blitzed.

 

@Sil could you repost the evidence for Jerec being close to Vader in terms of power?

[cs_zoltan]

One thing that I would like clarification on is whether the Vader-telekineseis-Jerec-FD-OHK on Kenobi would hypothetically be able to killl him, if we assume that they are able to pull it of without being blitzed.

 

I believe I covered that at length:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8280958&postcount=202

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8281718&postcount=211

[Selenial]

So are we moving on to the second stage? I think an official announcement is in order...

 

Indeed, I got behind writing my opener because Aurbere commanded it be long

 

Drafting up a post now.

 

Yeah for me too. Weird. I actually think that Oculus sounds much better tbh.

 

You're all wrong, Imperious is the best.

[Beniboybling]

For Stage 2 I presume...