SWTOR Duelling Tournament - Heats/Round 1B: ShadowMudkip vs StarSquirrel

[Beniboybling]

Now here's a few questions Beni:

 

- Do both teams know who is on the other team or how many members they have at the start? Or are they basically dropped in saying there is a team of between 2-4 enemies?

- Do they spawn on opposite sides of the battlefield outside of eachother's sightline?

See the OP:

 

Combatants start on the upper balconies, either side of the arena.

 

In reference to the image, basically were the trooper appears to be standing, now if you imagine the opponents are on the other side, they will be visible, and for the record the names of those they are fighting are announced immediately before. So yes, they are fully aware of how many people they are facing and have visual contact.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Beniboybling

[StarSquirrel]

See the OP:

 

Combatants start on the upper balconies, either side of the arena.

 

In reference to the image, basically were the trooper appears to be standing, now if you imagine the opponents are on the other side, they will be visible, and for the record the names of those they are fighting are announced immediately before. So yes, they are fully aware of how many people they are facing and have visual contact.

 

Dang it.

 

Still, once they began moving into the arena Corran and Jaina can disappear among the tunnels and ruins and conceal themselves. That'd be quite disconcerting to the Jedi...

[ShadowMudkip]

So I'm going to give a brief overview of terrain.

 

-Group telepathy through Satele, and Plo can help distinguish party location through the arena.

- 3/4 (excluding bastila) of my party members have shown to use extreme speeds when fighting or for movements related purposes. Note that Satele and Plo in particular are very skilled in Ataru. Note that they can easily jump upward to avoid narrow and compromising areas.

- Durge is quite large, considerably larger than a clone trooper, who looked to be slightly above normal human male height. Durge can easily get stuck in some areas of the arena. If he attempts to chase with his jetpack, then a simply TK push sends him back down. However, my team is faster than what a jetpack can provide, so it shouldn't be a problem regardless.

-While it was not included in the Satele post earlier, Satele has a very advanced Force Sense ability. She also has proficient use in force stealth, and can move around without making sound. She can basically go around undetected, and detect those inside the arena. Coupled with telepathy, my team gains control of whereabouts for all participants.

-Concerning traps, it is very possible to lead Durge into a trap attacking other teammates, with everyone's whereabouts known, they can use Durge's affinity for massive destruction and fury to "accidentally" round a corner and attack a teammate.

-Plo Koon can produce Fog and Ice through altar environment, if the team, or a member needs to escape, Plo can cover them. This also allows my team to go to higher ground where it would be more beneficial of them to fight.

-I believe two or three of my team members can use force stasis and force stun. It would be quite easy to coordinate that with a toppling pillar onto an unsuspecting enemy.

[Beniboybling]

I don't know if you guys have much to add, but if not I might consider moving on to the next stage.

[ShadowMudkip]

In light of certain...revelations, by Sel, I would like to point out that my team can still use battle med, even though Star's can't apparently. I don't want to say "Oh look I have battle med, ez win for me", because its not a crutch. However, I still have it and it is a big bonus for my team.

 

Altar environment, on the part of Koon, will prove useful in creating escapes for my team to utilize should they be cornered. I also want to point out that my team is significantly faster than Star's; this can be used to transverse the arena, and outmaneuver the two non-force users that much better.

 

Unrelated, but Beni, are you starting up the classic Kaggath after this? I have a killer idea for a faction.

[Beniboybling]

Not straight after, but eventually.

 

Also if no further arguments are made by the end of the day, I'll move on to the next stage.

[ShadowMudkip]

Not straight after, but eventually.

 

Also if no further arguments are made by the end of the day, I'll move on to the next stage.

 

I have one more argument I would like to make, nothing long, mostly an overview of my team and why they would win type stuff.

[Beniboybling]

Well final arguments are encouraged.

[ShadowMudkip]

Really quick question, does the rule about prior knowledge of opponents apply to teams as well? Like team members only know names and any prior knowledge of their teammates?

[Beniboybling]

Correct.

[ShadowMudkip]

Correct.

 

 

[ShadowMudkip]

Here is my concluding post

 

Both teams start only a short distance away from each other. My team will be able to avoid immediate harm/blitzing as my team is exceptionally fast, and has the advantage of all force users. Boba Fett, and to an extent Durge, are the "weak links" in Star's team simply by the fact that they are non force sensitives. I put them in parentheses, as neither of them are weak, but instead have all the disadvantages of a non force user.

Disadvantages of Star's non force users

- Significantly slower reaction times

- slower mobility

-susceptible to most force attacks (barring Fett's resistance to mind tricks)

-Are susceptible to the offensive effects of battle meditation

-Can not hide their presence

- Jetpacks are easily destroyed, thus losing them more mobility

 

Disadvantages of Star's team

-not as much coordination

-two non-force users become a liability

-can't counter battle meditation

-can't battle meld

- Boba and Durge have many disadvantages (listed above)

-know little about my team

 

 

This is pretty extensive, and will prove to be a big boon to my team.

 

My team has several advantages that Star's can not match, or can not match to my team's level

Advantages

- My team is comprised of master duelists, who all fought powerhouses of their day. Star's team really only has one duelist who can beat out a member on my team 1v1, Jaina and when you factor in battle med and superior numbers, that advantage for Jaina diminishes.

- My team has excellent synergy and communication through telepathy and battle meditation.

-Plo Koon can summon fog to provide a tactical escape/regroup in case of emergency, essentially restarting fights in favor of my group.

- Kit Fisto was a legendary swordsman, one of the best of the PT era, and a master of Shii-Cho, it is entirely possible for him to temporarily take on Jaina and Corran in a 2v1 should my team need it.

-Satele is accomplished in force conceal/stealth and force sense. On Yavin 4, she was able to sense Revan's spirit, when no one else could, granted she didn't know who the presence was. She will be able to locate any hidden opponents in the arena and communicate their location via telepathy.

-My team is much faster than the Star's overall.

-Koon and Fisto have encountered Durge before, and they know what to expect, and can share it with the other two.

 

Fisto has the ability to fight outnumbered, thanks to his abilities and skill in Shii-Cho. Satele is able to speed blitz even force users as we see in the Hope trailer. Bastila fought against Revan Reborn, Juhani, and Jolee Bindo in the temple of ancients, and escaped rather unharmed. Koon is a master of Djem So/Shien and Ataru forms, making him formidable against anyone of the other team. My team is far more rounded, and has incredible synergy. Battle meditation simply makes my team better, and causes serious detriment to the other team.

 

Scenario

 

Once the timer goes off, and both teams are free to engage in combat. Lightsaber battles are bound to erupt between my team and Star's force users. My team will briefly engage to test the opposition before splitting up and heading into the arena. Once in the arena, my Satele will communicate the locations of Durge and Boba Fett to the rest of the team, while locking in on the other two. From here, my team is free to plan ambushes, the first target being Boba Fett. Plo Koon will create a dense fog in the arena, that will block the other team. Then, my team can lure Boba to a more remote location and finish him off. Once this is done, my team now holds the numbers advantage. Satele can further ambush people, since she has been known to be soundless as she moves, and can conceal herself in the force.

 

Durge is going to be a problem, and since there are no giant suns around, incapacitating him will have to do. While under the cover of fog, one member of my team will lure Durge to a remote and isolated area of the arena, only to promptly disappear. This leaves Durge temporarily out of the fight, and allows my team to further pressure Corran Horn and Jaina. From here, my team can take down Corran Horn, as they are all a match for him, and now have the numbers advantage. This leaves Durge and Jaina as the only opposition left. Jaina can be taken down by a battle meditation boosted team (which I want to point out has been the case the entire scenario). Durge, will have to be force stunned, then crushed by tons of stone. Thus winning the duel.

 

Another possibility, since I just got confirmation from Beni, is that Durge does indeed attack Boba Fett, making my team's job that much easier. How? you might ask. It is very simply. Participants will only know prior knowledge, and names of both their teammates and their opposition. This is not a problem for my team, but it is for Star's. No one is going to know of Durge except Koon and Fisto and possibly Fett, though I doubt it. Thus, Corran wouldn't initially cast illusions on Durge to make him behave. Once battle meditation starts, the opposition's teamwork will start to crumble, and the first victim will be Durge. Durge has no way to fight the effects of battle med, and can be influenced to attack Boba Fett. This effectively takes out half Star's team, until one kills the other, or Corran and Jaina find a way to subdue Durge. However, this will be near impossible, as they will be fighting my team, and attempting to fight the effects of Bastila's battle meditation. Even if they find time to try and shield Durge, it might not be enough. By then, Durge will be so overcome with bloodlust, and his hatred for mandalorians, that their is not much Jaina or Corran can do. From here, my team engages and defeats Jaina and Corran, whether they are together or seperate. Then, they finish off Durge, who is probably the only one left.

 

Note that Bastila is not vulnerable this whole time, she can move and fight, since the concentration needed for four individuals is nothing compared to whole factions. We also see the Exile use it in combat as well, so there is no reason Bastila/Satele can't use it in combat.

[cs_zoltan]

Either side of the arena doesn't look that short to me.

[ShadowMudkip]

Either side of the arena doesn't look that short to me.

 

It looks bigger than it actually is, especially when you are down in it. *Recalls extensive playtime on BF2* Ah good times.

[raandomname]

Here is my concluding post

 

Both teams start only a short distance away from each other. My team will be able to avoid immediate harm/blitzing as my team is exceptionally fast, and has the advantage of all force users. Boba Fett, and to an extent Durge, are the "weak links" in Star's team simply by the fact that they are non force sensitives. I put them in parentheses, as neither of them are weak, but instead have all the disadvantages of a non force user.

Disadvantages of Star's non force users

- Significantly slower reaction times

- slower mobility

-susceptible to most force attacks (barring Fett's resistance to mind tricks)

-Are susceptible to the offensive effects of battle meditation

-Can not hide their presence

- Jetpacks are easily destroyed, thus losing them more mobility

 

Disadvantages of Star's team

-not as much coordination

-two non-force users become a liability

-can't counter battle meditation

-can't battle meld

- Boba and Durge have many disadvantages (listed above)

-know little about my team

 

 

This is pretty extensive, and will prove to be a big boon to my team.

 

My team has several advantages that Star's can not match, or can not match to my team's level

Advantages

- My team is comprised of master duelists, who all fought powerhouses of their day. Star's team really only has one duelist who can beat out a member on my team 1v1, Jaina and when you factor in battle med and superior numbers, that advantage for Jaina diminishes.

- My team has excellent synergy and communication through telepathy and battle meditation.

-Plo Koon can summon fog to provide a tactical escape/regroup in case of emergency, essentially restarting fights in favor of my group.

- Kit Fisto was a legendary swordsman, one of the best of the PT era, and a master of Shii-Cho, it is entirely possible for him to temporarily take on Jaina and Corran in a 2v1 should my team need it.

-Satele is accomplished in force conceal/stealth and force sense. On Yavin 4, she was able to sense Revan's spirit, when no one else could, granted she didn't know who the presence was. She will be able to locate any hidden opponents in the arena and communicate their location via telepathy.

-My team is much faster than the Star's overall.

-Koon and Fisto have encountered Durge before, and they know what to expect, and can share it with the other two.

 

Fisto has the ability to fight outnumbered, thanks to his abilities and skill in Shii-Cho. Satele is able to speed blitz even force users as we see in the Hope trailer. Bastila fought against Revan Reborn, Juhani, and Jolee Bindo in the temple of ancients, and escaped rather unharmed. Koon is a master of Djem So/Shien and Ataru forms, making him formidable against anyone of the other team. My team is far more rounded, and has incredible synergy. Battle meditation simply makes my team better, and causes serious detriment to the other team.

 

Scenario

 

Once the timer goes off, and both teams are free to engage in combat. Lightsaber battles are bound to erupt between my team and Star's force users. My team will briefly engage to test the opposition before splitting up and heading into the arena. Once in the arena, my Satele will communicate the locations of Durge and Boba Fett to the rest of the team, while locking in on the other two. From here, my team is free to plan ambushes, the first target being Boba Fett. Plo Koon will create a dense fog in the arena, that will block the other team. Then, my team can lure Boba to a more remote location and finish him off. Once this is done, my team now holds the numbers advantage. Satele can further ambush people, since she has been known to be soundless as she moves, and can conceal herself in the force.

 

Durge is going to be a problem, and since there are no giant suns around, incapacitating him will have to do. While under the cover of fog, one member of my team will lure Durge to a remote and isolated area of the arena, only to promptly disappear. This leaves Durge temporarily out of the fight, and allows my team to further pressure Corran Horn and Jaina. From here, my team can take down Corran Horn, as they are all a match for him, and now have the numbers advantage. This leaves Durge and Jaina as the only opposition left. Jaina can be taken down by a battle meditation boosted team (which I want to point out has been the case the entire scenario). Durge, will have to be force stunned, then crushed by tons of stone. Thus winning the duel.

 

Another possibility, since I just got confirmation from Beni, is that Durge does indeed attack Boba Fett, making my team's job that much easier. How? you might ask. It is very simply. Participants will only know prior knowledge, and names of both their teammates and their opposition. This is not a problem for my team, but it is for Star's. No one is going to know of Durge except Koon and Fisto and possibly Fett, though I doubt it. Thus, Corran wouldn't initially cast illusions on Durge to make him behave. Once battle meditation starts, the opposition's teamwork will start to crumble, and the first victim will be Durge. Durge has no way to fight the effects of battle med, and can be influenced to attack Boba Fett. This effectively takes out half Star's team, until one kills the other, or Corran and Jaina find a way to subdue Durge. However, this will be near impossible, as they will be fighting my team, and attempting to fight the effects of Bastila's battle meditation. Even if they find time to try and shield Durge, it might not be enough. By then, Durge will be so overcome with bloodlust, and his hatred for mandalorians, that their is not much Jaina or Corran can do. From here, my team engages and defeats Jaina and Corran, whether they are together or seperate. Then, they finish off Durge, who is probably the only one left.

 

Note that Bastila is not vulnerable this whole time, she can move and fight, since the concentration needed for four individuals is nothing compared to whole factions. We also see the Exile use it in combat as well, so there is no reason Bastila/Satele can't use it in combat.

I hope that this falls under pointing out facts and not debating, but Durge does not have slower reaction times then the Jedi, in fact he could see Jedi masters moving in slow motion and Boba and probably Durge too should be able to see through Koon's fog with the sensor systems built into their helmets.

 

Also if this is still appropriate at this point, could you elaborate on how you plan to ambush Boba who has a jetpack and extensive sensor systems including 360 degrees vision?

[raandomname]

*Recalls extensive playtime on BF2* Ah good times.

So true.

[ShadowMudkip]

I hope that this falls under pointing out facts and not debating, but Durge does not have slower reaction times then the Jedi, in fact he could see Jedi masters moving in slow motion and Boba and probably Durge too should be able to see through Koon's fog with the sensor systems built into their helmets.

 

Also if this is still appropriate at this point, could you elaborate on how you plan to ambush Boba who has a jetpack and extensive sensor systems including 360 degrees vision?

 

Much of Durge's feats come from the old clone wars animation show, which has shown to exaggerate certain things. This leads us to ask how can Durge see Jedi masters moving in slow motion? Either its an exaggeration, or its due to his armor, which shouldn't be able to do that. I covered how Boba can get ambushed but I can give you a tl;dr. Basically Satele can hide herself well enough to the point that even force users can't pick up on her.

 

I would like to point out that this is simply a scenario that showcases the abilities of my team, its not something set in stone.

[raandomname]

Much of Durge's feats come from the old clone wars animation show, which has shown to exaggerate certain things. This leads us to ask how can Durge see Jedi masters moving in slow motion? Either its an exaggeration, or its due to his armor, which shouldn't be able to do that. I covered how Boba can get ambushed but I can give you a tl;dr. Basically Satele can hide herself well enough to the point that even force users can't pick up on her.

 

I would like to point out that this is simply a scenario that showcases the abilities of my team, its not something set in stone.

The slow motion thing isnt from OCW, its from a comic. Ill try to find it.

 

Edit: found it. http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3940348-8177313120-37888.jpg

 

Edit 2: I read the scenario, but tbh I dont think that trapping Boba will work out like you suggested. However, I really like your plan in the second scenario and I think it would probably work out well.

Edited June 29, 2015 by raandomname

[ShadowMudkip]

I'm liking the silver/grey Random, I think it's working well for ya

[ShadowMudkip]

Something I want to point out. For those of you who haven't played Battlefront, the ruins in the bottom of the arena are more like a maze. The stone walls are easily double the height of a standard human.

[Beniboybling]

Alright seeing as Star hasn't been around to post today, I'll extend Stage 1 until he makes a final argument.

[Silenceo]

Alright seeing as Star hasn't been around to post today, I'll extend Stage 1 until he makes a final argument.

 

Judging from when Star tends to pop in for Conquest stuff *when it isn't on Maintenance, mind you* I would say you have at least 2-4 hours of wait until then. If he is having one of his longer shifts, 6 hours. Seeing how you usually tend to log off/sleep/work or what have you around this time, I would say if it is safe to say that you can go do what you normally do instead of watching the forum like a hawk for Star's response.

 

In other words, chill Beni, call it to the next stage tomorrow. Star will get here when he gets here.

 

Now, in the case that this got on anyone's nerves...

Edited June 29, 2015 by Silenceo

[Beniboybling]

Oh no worries I'm not, just clarifying where we stand at present. But thanks for the heads up.

[StarSquirrel]

Well... I am currently on vacation and its been rmovingifficult for me to find time and an internet connection to post.

 

I can make 3 closing points but im doing this on a tablet so bear with me. Also I wont be able to post much more than this.

 

• Durge and Boba have a versatility that the jedi lack. If you recall the opening argument I gave, you can see that between Durge's skills and natural regeneragtive properties and Boba's huge weapon diversity, that these two known Jedi killers balance out their lack of speed with a liftime of experience and a unique style of combat that none of these jedi are prepared for. Also, I dont recall a way to kill Durge having been discussed...
  
• Corran and Jaina as a pair would be dangerous. Their skill and abnormal but extremely effective dueling styles (including Corran's adjustable length blade and Jaina's Mandalorian brutality) will be complete unknowns to the Jedi. They easily each have the skill (as do Durge and Boba) to capatalize on any fault in the Jedi's defence exposed by the unusual and unique styles and illusions theyll face.
  
• Boba and Durge's jetpacks ensure mobility initially but Boba can use his to keep distance while Durge uses his to close. Also id reccomend reading the chase of Valin Horn through Coruscant in the FotJ series for Corrans force speed and agility feats. Jaina has a lot off feats in the same series breaking people out of prison with Boba or when she owns several of the best Lost tribe sith at once...
  

 

This is the best I can do this week. I dont mind moving on to the next round... I think that is for the best

[tunewalker]

Hey selenial, do you know the circumstance in which the Anakin, Jacen and Jaina struggled with the Battle Meld.... (IE where they were, what they were doing, what they did before hand, just for a whether or not there was extenuating circumstances behind that or not), because I am on the fence of whether or not he can because of the point about Jaina supposedly doing it 2 man with Zekk also the description about Anakin passing out seems to me like it could have been one of those known weaknesses where his mind was overwhelmed by some other out side interference, but if not then ya 3 + people... I just was wanting more circumstances behind the situation. Edited June 30, 2015 by tunewalker