SWTOR Duelling Tournament - Heats/Round 1B: ShadowMudkip vs StarSquirrel

[Beniboybling]

Also just a heads up votes this isn't working on a points based system like the Kaggath, so while the mini respect threads are all well and good, only so much as they can educate me (and admittedly others) on the characters.

 

I'm already pretty well versed so don't try to hard, what I'd really like to see is how these skills they possess can be applied to the duel, and against other combatants, not that you haven't touched upon that already.

[tunewalker]

Right concerning this are game mechanics canon business.

 

According to Leland Chee in regards to KOTOR and video game content:

 

Anything that doesn't contradict or exist purely for gameplay is C-canon.

 

https://twitter.com/HolocronKeeper/status/383263147445854208

 

That it would "facilitate an interesting gaming experience for the player" is not proof it exists purely for gameplay, and that can be said of the entire Star Wars universe. Funnily enough accurate portrayals and fun experiences are not irreconciable. So unless a specific reason can be provided for why Satele's BM feat exists "purely for gameplay" I see no reason to to take it as evidence. It appears a perfectly accurate potrayal of the power and her capacity to use it.

 

Anyway again that the decision, if you want to rail against it do so here.I'd just like to know if Boba possessed his own lightsaber or not.He said Sith bro and given he rightly stated the gap between Sidious and Caedus to be very large, its pretty obvious he's saying #1 Sidious #2 ? #3 Caedus. At least he better be.

 

your quote just said... read your quote very carefully.....

 

Anything that doesn't contradict or exist purely for gameplay is C-canon.

 

If it exists for the pleasure of hte player guess what... it falls under that second category

 

This:

"facilitate an interesting gaming experience for the player"

 

Is

 

This

"or exist purely for gameplay"

They mean the same thing.

 

 

Thank you for finding 100% unrefutable PROOF that what I said was 100% true and please start taking it into consideration.

 

It exists purely for gameplay experience because you need a "healer" and a "buffer" so that you can feel like the hero taking down revan in the single player mode rather then doing it in the ops mode. it is purely there for the gameplay experience of the player and "purely game play"= "purely game play experience" they are 1 and the same non-canon.

Edited June 26, 2015 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

This is confusing, because I was not referring to Sidious as #2 and Caedus as #3, but instead as Sidious=#1 and Caedus=#3, leaving room for Plagueis as #2, where I believe he belongs. But this is inconsequential to the debate at hand.

[cs_zoltan]

He said Sith bro and given he rightly stated the gap between Sidious and Caedus to be very large, its pretty obvious he's saying #1 Sidious #2 ? #3 Caedus. At least he better be.

 

Nein, nein, nein.

 

I would like to point out, that Sidious is the second most powerful, non entity, force user ever.

 

Finally, just because Caedus is like the third most powerful sith ever, doesn't mean he is parked up right behind Sidious in terms of power. The gap between the two is very large.

Sidious>>>>>>>Caedus.

[Selenial]

your quote just said... read your quote very carefully.....

 

Anything that doesn't contradict or exist purely for gameplay is C-canon.

 

If it exists for the pleasure of hte player guess what... it falls under that second category

 

This:

"facilitate an interesting gaming experience for the player"

 

Is

 

This

"or exist purely for gameplay"

They mean the same thing.

 

 

Thank you for finding 100% unrefutable PROOF that what I said was 100% true and please start taking it into consideration.

 

Except it doesn't exist purely for gameplay. They chose Satele for a reason. Better yet, in canon Satele is hinted to be a user of Battle Meditation anyway, and that the power simply hadn't manifested itself due to her preference for direct combat. Since she says herself she's steering away from combat, it makes sense.

 

We've made a ruling, deal with it.

[ShadowMudkip]

He said Sith bro and given he rightly stated the gap between Sidious and Caedus to be very large, its pretty obvious he's saying #1 Sidious #2 ? #3 Caedus. At least he better be.

 

This, I know that the most powerful thread puts Plagueis at 4 and Vitiate at 5, with Caedus at 6, but I believe Plagueis and Vitiate are close enough that you could argue they hold the same position. Thus, on a power scale, Sidious is 1, Plagueis is 2, and Caedus is 3, if you discount the Sith Emperor.

Edited June 26, 2015 by ShadowMudkip

[Beniboybling]

Alright alright lets get back to the debate people.

[cs_zoltan]

Alright alright lets get back to the debate people.

 

But I don't wanna

[ShadowMudkip]

Except it doesn't exist purely for gameplay. They chose Satele for a reason. Better yet, in canon Satele is hinted to be a user of Battle Meditation anyway, and that the power simply hadn't manifested itself due to her preference for direct combat. Since she says herself she's steering away from combat, it makes sense.

 

We've made a ruling, deal with it.

 

I have quotes that support Satele having battle med, and barrier.

[tunewalker]

Except it doesn't exist purely for gameplay. They chose Satele for a reason. Better yet, in canon Satele is hinted to be a user of Battle Meditation anyway, and that the power simply hadn't manifested itself due to her preference for direct combat. Since she says herself she's steering away from combat, it makes sense.

 

We've made a ruling, deal with it.

 

If you make the ruling that Windu can eat lightning and crap thunder "because you said so" and go against a source that specifically states other wise when you are supposedly "going by canon" rules I am not just going to shut my mouth when there is blatant disregards for the rules by arbiters or any one else for that matter.

[Beniboybling]

But I don't wanna

You're not debating silly. Edited June 26, 2015 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

I have quotes that support Satele having battle med, and barrier.

 

I am nto saying she doesnt have these abilities I am saying they do not function the same way the GAME PLAY says they function as the GAME PLAY is purely for game play and not canon.

[tunewalker]

You're not debating silly.

 

You're correct I am just doing my duty of CORRECTING incosistencies that rule 1 allows for .

 

That entire fight and the mechanics given by all participating members is PURELY for gameplay experience of hte player. All of that exists for game play purposes. ESPECIALLY the numbers.

Edited June 26, 2015 by tunewalker

[StarSquirrel]

I'm not going to answer the third paragraph right now, as I only have time for the first two

 

In response to 1.

I would like to point out, that Sidious is the second most powerful, non entity, force user ever. He was on an entire different level than Fisto. I could go on and on how handicapped Fisto was in that fight, but all we need to know is Sidious>>>>>>>>>>the other 4 jedi, even Mace. Yep even Mace. Mace, was carried hard by his Vapaad, and without it would have fallen shortly after Fisto. If Jaina were in that situation, she would have died as well. Don't take Fisto's death as a detriment to his skill, instead, that example only serves to reinforce Sidious as powerful as he was.

 

In response to 2

Are...you calling dad wrong? I kid. Seriously though, sourcebooks have proven to be reliable time after time. Plo Koon has lifetimes more experience than Fisto, and look at how good of a duelist he is. If you want lightsaber feats, I can pull them out, but I felt they were repetitive as many of them went with those sourcebook quotes.

 

Finally, just because Caedus is like the third most powerful sith ever, doesn't mean he is parked up right behind Sidious in terms of power. The gap between the two is very large.

Sidious>>>>>>>Caedus. Also, iirc, Jaina only actually killed Caedus because he let her.

 

In response to 1:

I just want to ask something... where exactly are you trying to place Fisto on the power scale here? Because so far none of his feats compare to Jaina's. Jaina had the same level of power as her brother, who (when she made that quote) was getting close to Luke in terms of power. Also Caedus is the 2nd most powerful Sith...

 

 

In response to 2:

I'm not saying that sourcebooks are unreliable, but if I gave you two descriptions as follows:

 

"This Jedi is amazing" -random sourcebook

 

"...and with that, the Jedi, after a grueling day-long duel bested their opponent X, one of the most powerful people in the galaxy!" -random novel

 

Which one holds more weight? For all I know the first could be in comparisons to their allies, or enemies, or only the folks in X order. Meanwhile I have a very real description of someone winning a fight against another character with accolades and sourcebook material of their own.

 

Novel quotes and accounts are far better shows of power than any sourcebook or second-hand In-universe analysis imo...

[Selenial]

If you make the ruling that Windu can eat lightning and crap thunder "because you said so" and go against a source that specifically states other wise when you are supposedly "going by canon" rules I am not just going to shut my mouth when there is blatant disregards for the rules by arbiters or any one else for that matter.

And the prize for longest incoherent sentence goes to.....

 

Anyway, it's said that she's likely a user of Battle Meditation, and then it's confirmed later that she is. Satele using it isn't solely for gameplay, something solely for gameplay is that Revan can take 100 lightsaber strikes, can't be stunned and is 9 feet tall. Sateles Battle Meditation does not exist solely for game play, even disregarding the SOR feat she can still use it.

 

But seriously, we apologise profusely for daring to make any character that wasn't born after 19 BBY a valid choice in this tournament.

 

Our mistake.

[ShadowMudkip]

. Also Caedus is the 2nd most powerful Sith...

 

.

 

[cs_zoltan]

Tune must really hate games.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/3242904710680720086/EE1D08C3D17DDB8B57ADD85F0E3CD6320AD74691/

[StarSquirrel]

[tunewalker]

And the prize for longest incoherent sentence goes to.....

 

Anyway, it's said that she's likely a user of Battle Meditation, and then it's confirmed later that she is. Satele using it isn't solely for gameplay, something solely for gameplay is that Revan can take 100 lightsaber strikes, can't be stunned and is 9 feet tall. Sateles Battle Meditation does not exist solely for game play, even disregarding the SOR feat she can still use it.

 

But seriously, we apologise profusely for daring to make any character that wasn't born after 19 BBY a valid choice in this tournament.

 

Our mistake.

 

The numbers that they heal, the amount of BUFF that they give, the increased regen on force powers ALL of that IS purely for gameplay. I am not saying she cant I am saying the numbers and the like and HOW it functions are purely gameplay.

[Beniboybling]

And the prize for longest incoherent sentence goes to.....

 

Anyway, it's said that she's likely a user of Battle Meditation, and then it's confirmed later that she is. Satele using it isn't solely for gameplay, something solely for gameplay is that Revan can take 100 lightsaber strikes, can't be stunned and is 9 feet tall. Sateles Battle Meditation does not exist solely for game play, even disregarding the SOR feat she can still use it.

 

But seriously, we apologise profusely for daring to make any character that wasn't born after 19 BBY a valid choice in this tournament.

 

Our mistake.

Sel the matter is closed. This is not the place for this discussion any how.

[Selenial]

The numbers that they heal, the amount of BUFF that they give, the increased regen on force powers ALL of that IS purely for gameplay. I am not saying she cant I am saying the numbers and the like and HOW it functions are purely gameplay.

 

Except the fact that it does heal is obviously not. Lama heals in that encounter, so her healing isn't just gameplay. Its there to indicate that her battle meditation is the same sphere as Worror Dowmat and The Exile.

[Beniboybling]

Sel the matter is closed. This is not the place for this discussion any how.

I can only assume you missed this.

[tunewalker]

Tune must really hate games.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/3242904710680720086/EE1D08C3D17DDB8B57ADD85F0E3CD6320AD74691/

 

I love games.... probably more then I should, all kinds of games, shooters, strategy, rpg, table top, card, miniatures ect ect. But I treat them as that a game and I follow the rules presented in the game, this tournament... is a game there are rules I just make sure people follow them.

 

15:05 replace war with games

 

Its my love for games that makes me a stickler for the rules in the game. Games can be amazing fun when every one plays by the rules of the game. Cheating... I hate, lies... I hate.... Games... I love them, just play by the rules of the game.

[StarSquirrel]

Sel, your quote says "generally" but the Jedi of the NJO order mastered Battle Meld and there are plenty of accounts of Jaina and Zekk using it without anyone else involved and more so after the Joiner incident. I believe she also used it with Kyp a lot as well, though I'd have to go look through that again.

 

Actually I would like to know where that quote comes from. Also which three family members could barely hold it together?

[ShadowMudkip]

In response to 1:

I just want to ask something... where exactly are you trying to place Fisto on the power scale here? Because so far none of his feats compare to Jaina's. Jaina had the same level of power as her brother, who (when she made that quote) was getting close to Luke in terms of power. Also Caedus is the 2nd most powerful Sith...

 

 

In response to 2:

I'm not saying that sourcebooks are unreliable, but if I gave you two descriptions as follows:

 

"This Jedi is amazing" -random sourcebook

 

"...and with that, the Jedi, after a grueling day-long duel bested their opponent X, one of the most powerful people in the galaxy!" -random novel

 

Which one holds more weight? For all I know the first could be in comparisons to their allies, or enemies, or only the folks in X order. Meanwhile I have a very real description of someone winning a fight against another character with accolades and sourcebook material of their own.

 

Novel quotes and accounts are far better shows of power than any sourcebook or second-hand In-universe analysis imo...

 

I'm not trying to put Fisto on a power scale, but to attack his skills based on the Palpatine fight, which was a extraordinary event for many reasons, is simply wrong. Fisto, was a legendary duelist that impressed even Mace Windu, Obi Wan, and Shaak Ti. In fact i'm going to pull out a very special quote that's not from a sourcebook that accounts exactly how powerful he is.

 

Kit Fisto has contested against AotC Obi-wan Kenobi(who uses 1 blade) for hours in sparring session with neither finding flaw in each others defenses. After the first hour of sparring Kenobi recognizes that Kit Fisto was the better Swordsman while it was also noted that Kit was deliberately holding back his speed while sparring Kenobi.

 

Obi-Wan and Kit had been engaged for an hour now, each seeking holes in the other’s defense. Obi-Wan swiftly discovered that Kit was the better swordfighter, astonishingly aggressive and intuitive in comparison with Obi-Wan’s more measured style. But the Nautolan gave himself deliberate disadvantages, hampered himself in terms of balance, limited his speed, emphasized his nondominant side to force himself to full attention, the kind of full attention that can be best accessed only when life itself is at risk. To relax and feel the flow of the Force under such stress was the true road to mastery.

For hours the two danced without music, at first falling into a preplanned series of moves and countermoves learned in the Temple under Master Yoda’s tutelage. As they grew more accustomed to each other’s rhythms, they progressed into a flowing web of spontaneous engagement. Slowly, minute by minute, they increased pace, stuttered the rhythm, increasing the acuteness of attack angles and beginning to utilize feints and distractions, binds, rapid changes in level, and to introduce random environmental elements into the interaction:, furniture, walls, slippery floors. To an observer it would have seemed that the two were trying to slaughter each other, but the two knew that they were engaged in the most profound and enjoyable aspect of Jedi play, lightsaber flow.