tunewalker Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Depictions of disrupter rifles have thus far shown a need to dodge, as far as I am aware it may be unblockable with a lightsaber, though this could be VERY wrong and is just off the top of my head memory, so dont quote me on this..... Star may have an actual source or something, but again this is a small correction based on faulty memory.... its definately not "deflectable" as the beam disipates upon meeting a solid object, either it would pass right through the lightsaber or dicipate the moment it touched the lightsaber. Edited June 26, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Kit Fisto Combat .Here Mace regards Fisto as one the best of the order and the reason he chose him to accompany him in facing Sidious “Forget not the existence of Sidious. Anticipate your action, he may. Masters will be necessary, if the Lord of the Sith you must face." "I have chosen four of our best. Master Tiin, Master Kolar, and Master Fisto are all here, in the Temple. They are preparing already." "What about Skywalker? The chosen one." "Too much of a risk," Mace replied. "I am the fourth." Shaak Ti supporting Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Tinn and Kolar being the Jedi Order's best. "Anakin, why? The Masters are the best of the Order. What can you possibly do?" And again here Mace regards Kit as one of the three of the most celebrated Swordsman in the Order as well a describing him as a Master of Shii-Cho. Most of the Jedi are deployed on distant worlds, but Mace manages to assemble a trio of celebrated swordmasters to assist him in arresting Palpatine: Agen Kolar, a Zabrak known among the Jedi to strike first and ask questions later; Saesee Tiin, a solitary Iktotchi who has never chosen a Padawan learner;and Kit Fisto, Nautolan master of Form 1 lightsaber technique, who distinguished himself on Geonosis and Mon Calamari, and who partnered Mace in battling Grievous on Coruscant. Obi-Wan, insisting that Kit Fisto was not only one of the greatest swordsmen in the Order, but in all of history: Now Obi-Wan did face him. "Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By himself. Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance." Basic initiates in the style demonstrated rather clumsy performance, though in the hands of a master, like Fisto, Shii-Cho was fluid but highly randomized and unpredictable. Here describes the Form and Kit's application of it's raw, random, dangerously aggressive style when applied in combat. He even states that if immersed himself in the Force, it would amplify those traits in the form and himself, and that doing so is "The way of Form One". Kit sat heavily, his smooth green forearms resting on his knees, sensor tendrils curling and questing like a nest of angry sand vipers. “I should have gone closer to the edge,” he said, the irises within the unblinking eyes expanding until they appeared to glow. “Released myself into the Force, become more unpredictable. More … random.Obi-Wan heard the concern in the Nautolan’s voice. Form I was wild, raw … and deadly. It also required too much emotional heat for Obi-Wan’s taste. “That would have been dangerous,” he said, choosing his words carefully. “Not to your body, perhaps, but to your spirit.” Kit looked up at him, irises contracting again. “It is the way of Form One. your spirit.” Kit looked up at him, irises contracting again. “It is the way of Form One. Kit Fisto further mastered, refined, and compensated for Shi-Choo’s lack of 1v1 dueling skills. As seen by the quotes below. Kit Fisto has contested against AotC Obi-wan Kenobi(who uses 1 blade) for hours in sparring session with neither finding flaw in each others defenses. After the first hour of sparring Kenobi recognizes that Kit Fisto was the better Swordsman while it was also noted that Kit was deliberately holding back his speed while sparring Kenobi. Obi-Wan and Kit had been engaged for an hour now, each seeking holes in the other’s defense. Obi-Wan swiftly discovered that Kit was the better swordfighter, astonishingly aggressive and intuitive in comparison with Obi-Wan’s more measured style. But the Nautolan gave himself deliberate disadvantages, hampered himself in terms of balance, limited his speed, emphasized his nondominant side to force himself to full attention, the kind of full attention that can be best accessed only when life itself is at risk. To relax and feel the flow of the Force under such stress was the true road to mastery. For hours the two danced without music, at first falling into a preplanned series of moves and countermoves learned in the Temple under Master Yoda’s tutelage. As they grew more accustomed to each other’s rhythms, they progressed into a flowing web of spontaneous engagement. Slowly, minute by minute, they increased pace, stuttered the rhythm, increasing the acuteness of attack angles and beginning to utilize feints and distractions, binds, rapid changes in level, and to introduce random environmental elements into the interaction:, furniture, walls, slippery floors. To an observer it would have seemed that the two were trying to slaughter each other, but the two knew that they were engaged in the most profound and enjoyable aspect of Jedi play, lightsaber flow. Just to point out, we have three of the PT orders most famed jed (Shaak Ti, Obi Wan, and Mace Windu) all giving Kit Fisto credit as one of the greatest swordsmen ever produced by the order. Speed Speed Kit moving fast enough baffle Obi-wan's sight. Kit accelerated into a blur of motion complex and rapid enough to baffle even Obi-Wan’s experienced gaze. Magnaguards have near light speed reaction, are Jedi like in skill (at least in the EU/Novel) and 3 in the past have given Obi-wan difficulty. Three MagnaGuards, each with a double-ended weapon that generated an energy field impervious to lightsabers, each with reflexes that operated near light-speed, each with hypersophisticated heuristic combat algorithms that enabled it to learn from experience and adapt its tactics instantly to any situation, were certainly beyond Obi-Wan's ability to defeat, but it was not Obi-Wan who would defeat them; Obi-Wan wasn't even fighting. He was only a vessel, emptied of self. The Force, shaped by his skill and guided by his clarity of mind, fought through him. Kit moves his blade fast enough to produce a Web of light from the residue of his saber. This Cestus affair grows uglier by the moment, Kit Fisto thought bitterly. Then regrets and second guesses dissolved as a web of lightsaber light filled the air around him, and guards crumpled to the ground. He flirted with battle fever, the howling demon in his mind trapped behind the bars of discipline, but guiding him as he slid down Form l’s razor edge Kit fighting Ventress while moving his hands, feet and lightsaber at blurring speeds, which were described as "impossibly fast" and a "mind-numbing blur". Now, finally, Kit drew his lightsaber. Ventress drew a pair of blazing, red blades. She inclined her head, breathing more quickly, lips curling into a smile. “Finally,” she said. “Your pleasure,” Kit hissed, and went at her. He was like fire, Ventress like smoke. The dance had substance but not form, a blur of light that seemed impossibly fast, unbelievably deadly. The two leapt and swerved, collided and bounced away. Single against double lightblades. Hands, knees, feet, all in a mind-numbing blur. Obi-Wan would have given his right hand to join. Or even to watch such a display. Hand-to-Hand combat Kit Fisto is also very skilled in Form 1's application of unarmed combat. He showcases his H2H skill very impressively in his fight against swams of X'Tings Here Kit fights a group of chitinous armored/skinned X'Ting soldiers. Beings described as a "Martial Arts Hurricane", moving in 2 places at once, breaking bones,limbs, twisting joints, tossing around X'Ting. Showcasing extreme flexibility moving and incapacitating every X'Ting he touched Kit Fisto snarled, surrendering to the pull of Form I’s unarmed techniques. His attack was absolute fluidity, one motion flowing into the next without a wasted effort. Heads cracked, limbs twisted against their joints, and X’Ting flipped howling into the lake. From the corner of his eye he saw that Kit had made his way almost to Ventress, and what he saw as the Nautolan increased his efforts almost broke Obi-Wan’s concentration. His companion was a living, martial hurricane, his body moving in two and three directions at once, joints flexing, unlimited by human vertebral restraints. Who he touched went down. And those who went down, stayed down. Ventress might have gathered a rabble, but the youthful X’Ting were fearless, and fought as if for their lives The Cestus Deception Kit disarming and incapacitating an X'Ting with a kick all in one motion before it could make a sound. He slipped into the room, and the single guard didn't have time to turn around before Kit hurled him self forward. The guard managed to level his sidearm as Kit sliced it from his hand. The Nautolan continued the motion into a kick to the head, disabling the hapless Cestian before he could make a sound. The Cestus Deception Kit incapacitating a Huge X'Ting with a pressure point attack. On the way a huge technician swung a pry-bar at him. Sick at heart, the Jedi spun to the inside of the aggressive spiral and twisted it out of his hand. He shifted his attacker against the wall as his eyes rolled up, voluntary nervous system paralyzed by a strike to the nerve plexus beneath his arm. “Sleep,” Kit Fisto whispered as the technician slumped. “All life is a dream". Durability Kit Fisto survives an explosion, and takes beatings from Durge! http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4304729-kit+fisto+durability.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4304729-kit+fisto+durability.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4304731-kit+fisto+punched+by+durge.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4304733-kit+fisto+fired.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Plo Koon Accolades Plo Koon is considered one of the most militaristic and dangerous of all Jedi: ever: One of the most militaristic and dangerous of the Jedi insurgents, Plo Koon served on the Jedi Council for more than 10 years. —Star Wars Insider 87 Plo Koon is considered one of the most powerful Jedi Plo Koon is a member of the Jedi High Council and a Jedi General in the Clone Wars. Koon is one of the most powerful Jedi ever, with awesome fighting ability, strong telekinetic powers and superb piloting skills. —Star Wars: Character Encyclopedia Darth Maul, one of the deadliest Sith Lords in history, considers Plo Koon to be among the truly great Jedi Warriors and considers a battle with him or Mace Windu to be a true test of his skill: He longed to battle one of the truly great Jedi warriors: Plo Koon, perhaps, or Mace Windu. That would be a true test of his skill. —Star Wars: Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter Plo Koon is stated to be a challenge for any Jedi: With advanced telekinesis abilities and a mastery of the powerful Djem So Lightsaber form, Jedi Master Plo Koon would prove a challenge for any Jedi. —Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Adventures Tactical Tactical Master Plo is extremely proficient in tactics, making him especially dangerous. Plo Koon is considered to be among the greatest military minds in the Jedi Order: “Fortunately, we have some of the greatest minds in the Jedi Order at our disposal…” —Mace Windu(Obsession #4) Plo Koon is compared to Oppo Rancisis, a noted tactical genius: Like Rancisis, Koon had a keen mind for military strategy. —Star Wars: Cloak of Deception Plo Koon’s skills led to Republic victories in the Yinchorri Uprising and the Battle of Boz Pity: His battle skills led to Republic victories in the Yinchorri Uprising and the Battle of Boz Pity. —Star Wars Insider 87 Combat Plo Koon's hand-to-hand combat skills are legendary: His hand-to-hand combat abilities are legendary. —Hasbro: Plo Koon action figure Plo Koon is stated to be a master of Form V: Djem So: With advanced telekinesis abilities and a mastery of the powerful Djem So Lightsaber form, Jedi Master Plo Koon would prove a challenge for any Jedi. —Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Adventures Plo Koon is stated to be proficient in Form V: Shien: Talents: Block, Deflect, Force Intuition, Force Perception, Redirect Shot, Resilience, Shien, Telekinetic Savant, Weapon Specialization (lightsabers) ―Star Wars: The Clone Wars Campaign Guide Plo Koon is considered an expert swordsman by Qui-Gon Jinn: "He's an expert swordsman and a hard taskmaster." ―Qui-Gon Jinn Plo Koon disarms Jedi Killer Aurra Sing: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441208-3311793516-pFuvD.gif Plo Koon engages and holds his own against Savage Opress, who has proven a worthy challenge for some of the finest Jedi of the era, and injures him before the latter removed Koon's antiox breath mask Despite being impeded by a broken arm, Plo Koon holds his own against Asajj Ventress and manages to disarm her before Kit Fisto and several clones arrive to force her into retreat: Note that the above two accolades have scans that go with them. These arent all of them, but the important ones. Vs Savage http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441251-2509661295-XhQ8x.png http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441252-2730054936-IH4RO.png http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441253-5898990824-Kyf4b.png Vs Ventress http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4608250-1852431417-43246.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4608251-2596905721-43246.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4608252-7155179210-43246.jpg Force ability -TK Plo Koon can Force Push targets without having to face them: Koon could employ the Force Push ability without needing to face his target, —Star Wars: The New Essential Guide to Characters Plo Koon and Ahsoka Tano hold up half of a crumbling bridge of a Venator-class Star Destroyer: https://youtu.be/o3-UANP1zGE (20 minute mark) -Force Valor Force Valor is an umbrella term that refers to the ability to increase one’s physical abilities to perform superhuman feats. Force Abilities under this umbrella include Force Jump, Force Speed, etc. Plo Koon is skilled in Force Valor: Force Powers Known (Use the Force +19): battle strike, farseeing, Force disarm(2), Force thrust, malacia,mind trick, rebuke, surge —Star Wars: The Clone Wars Campaign Guide Force Speed Plo Koon uses Force Speed to attack noted Jedi Killer Aurra Sing before she can fire at him: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441117-5688300591-pFuvD.gif Plo Koon cuts through dozens of battle droids in the time a Clone Trooper can say three words http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441123-2953304324-oBuZW.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441123-2953304324-oBuZW.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441123-2953304324-oBuZW.jpg Force Healing Force Healing is the ability that allows a Jedi to heal the wounds of the self or others. The ability can allow a Jedi to heal wounds suffered from blunt force trauma, sharp force trauma, blaster bolt burns, lightsaber scores, broken bones, and Force Lightning. Plo Koon heals the wounds of injured soldiers during the Stark Hyperspace War: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441436-3620141048-rCzyi.jpg Force Barrier Force Barrier is a defensive Force technique that allows a Jedi or Sith to defend themselves from telepathy-based, physical-based, and energy-based attacks such as melee attacks and blaster bolts. Plo Koon and Kit Fisto create a Force Barrier to defend themselves and several Clone Troopers from an avalanche caused by Asajj Ventress. However, Plo Koon suffered a broken arm during the ordeal: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441442-7175964446-GkKJC.png Farsight/precognition Farsight and Precognition are abilities that allow a Force sensitive to see into the future to predict future events or detect imminent danger and attack. Precognitive abilities allow a Jedi to avoid immediate attack. Plo Koon is skilled in Farsight: Force Powers Known (Use the Force +19): battle strike, farseeing, Force disarm(2), Force thrust, malacia,mind trick, rebuke, surge —Star Wars: The Clone Wars Plo Koon predicts imminent rescue Campaign Guide http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4608295-0569447628-yBmoL.jpg Mind trick The Jedi Mind Trick is an ability that allows a Jedi or Sith to influence the weak-minded or mighty to manipulate them, coerce them, or otherwise affect their minds to make them serve the user's ends. Plo Koon is skilled in Jedi Mind Trick: Force Powers Known (Use the Force +19): battle strike, farseeing, Force disarm(2), Force thrust, malacia,mind trick, rebuke, surge —Star Wars: The Clone Wars Campaign Guide Plo Koon’s Jedi Mind powers are superior to Kit Fisto’s: “Your Jedi Mind powers need work, Master Fisto…” —Plo Koon(Clone Wars Adventures Volume 6: Means and Ends) Telepathy Telepathy is the ability to read or communicate with another's mind from across great distances. "His highly developed extrasensory organs increased his Jedi mind power." —Star Wars: The Clone Wars Campaign Guide "Kel Dors also possess highly developed extrasensory organs, which can enhance a Force user's power." —Star Wars Fact File 123 Plo Koon uses telepathy to learn of Iaco Stark's plans throughout the course of the Stark Hyperspace War: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441471-9275060187-HiylT.jpg Altar Environment and Malacia Malacia is the Force ability that allows a Jedi to disrupt a person’s internal equilibrium, causing them to become dizzy and nauseated. The body works against the subject, forcing them to collapse. Plo Koon is skilled in Malacia. Force Powers Known (Use the Force +19): battle strike, farseeing, Force disarm(2), Force thrust, malacia,mind trick, rebuke, surge —Star Wars: The Clone Wars Campaign Guide Alter Environment is the Jedi’s ability to manipulate the natural surroundings, such as water, air, etc. and use it to their advantage by freezing water or air, or manipulating cloud coverings. Plo Koon can manipulate the environment to create fog or ice: Koon could employ the Force Push ability without needing to face his target, manipulated the environment to create fog or ice, and even employed the controversial fingertip-lightning technique, which Koon called “Electric Judgment.” —Star Wars: The New Essential Guide to Characters A Kel Dor, Plo Koon can control the environment to create fog or ice. —Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide to Star Wars Plo Koon uses his scientific knowledge in combination with the Force to create startling effects: He also uses his force powers in combination with his extensive scientific knowledge to produce startling effects against his opponents. —Hasbro: Plo Koon action figure Electric Judgement Plo Koon is a practitioner of Force lightning, which he calls Electric Judgment: Koon could employ the Force Push ability without needing to face his target, manipulated the environment to create fog or ice, and even employed the controversial fingertip-lightning technique, which Koon called “Electric Judgment.” —Star Wars: The New Essential Guide to Characters Plo Koon would use it in combat “The Council asked me to contemplate whether I would hesitate to use Force lightning again, and whether I was wrong to employ it on Metellos. After much meditation, I believe it would be wrong of me to ignore this power that I might develop into a useful technique for combat” Plo Koon has apparently perfected his application of Electric Judgment: Plo Koon was not only appointed to the Jedi Council but apparently succeeded in perfecting the technique that he called Electric Judgment. —The Essential Guide to the Force Hassat Durr/ Baran Do techniques Plo Koon was a possible student of the Baran Do Sages and knew of these techniques: “Though I have lived among humans for many years, some of the differences between our ways choose not to fade into irrelevance. The electroencephaloscan, for example, would be considered a grave and very personal intrusion by my find. Fortunately, my order knows of a means to keep even it at bay. Unfortunately, when utilizing it, we cannot determine that we have functioning brains." —Fate of the Jedi: Outcast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I approve of this most recent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I approve of this most recent post. Credit to the dad for using his thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Credit to the dad for using his thread That's a good boy. Glad to see the thread getting used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Except for here's the deal, you can meld two individuals, I can boost four. Meditation does not have to be some thing where the user is isolated in perfect concentration. In all instances of that, the user was influencing a massive amount of people, such as ships, armies, fleets, even entire factions. To say that using it on 4 individuals would require the same standards is ludicrous. While I appreciate the advantages Battle Meditation provides, I haven't delved into how Force Meld will help my team aside from an overview. Once I have I think there will be a more proper comparison. You seem to have the idea 4 is better than 2 without really appreciating the unique skills or power of the two I do have. I knew I would get some flak for picking a pair of non force users and ultimately if I was going for a team to sweep the competition I'd have selected all force-users. As is, I'm trying to teach force-users a bit of humility here. As I have said before, I don't need meld to link my team, Satele and Koon are accomplished telepaths, who can communicate with the others mentally, and read the minds of their opponents. As for the ability of your Jedi to read the minds of my team I would remind you - Durge's mind is kinda screwed up and he's Gen'dai so good luck there. - Boba's will resisted Vader's mental powers and you have no one close to his level. - Corran has feats of illusions, guarding against mind probes, and Mind Tricks that put all your characters to shame - Jaina (using Boba's techniques) was unreadable even by her twin brother Darth Caedus.. As far as the disruptor rifle, its an energy weapon, it can be blocked by a lightsaber. Alternatively, Koon can redirect it using Shien into Durges head It goes clear through energy shields and only reacts when it hits solid matter. I don't recall any instance when a lightsaber stopped one and while that doesn't mean it can't, all the information we do have on it suggests a lightsaber would be no more effective than an energy shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 - Boba's will resisted Vader's mental powers and you have no one close to his level. If only I could find more of the text examples of this, instead of the comic panel ones where he makes people go suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Having read through Kit Fisto and Plo Koon's list of accolades I'm impressed. Now I have three things to keep in mind. - When referencing Kit Fisto's mission to help take down the chancellor you only needed to cite it once. Once Mace said it there really isn't anyone else who could make that statement more impressive. Oh, and I'd like to make a note that he died within a few seconds. In fact, Sidious killed two other jedi and Fisto still didn't manage to react fast enough to not die that quickly. It is sad. Meanwhile Jaina killed perhaps the second or third most powerful Sith ever. Alone. Just thought I'd point that out - Plo Koon's section is literally filled with generalized sourcebook, second-hand, and action figure statements about him with little actual evidence of his skills, particularly in lightsaber combat. Meanwhile I have dug out of storage entire accounts of Corran and Jaina's duels and fights in which they engage the most powerful enemies of their time. - I would also like to acknowledge a notable issue here. While Plo Koon was one of the most militaristic jedi of his age, the NJO in general are perhaps the most militaristic jedi since the Army of Light. I mean, the order fought in at least four separate galactic-scale wars. Jaina was a veteran before she hit puberty. Corran had fought the Empire, Imperial Remnant, Zinji, Thrawn, Isard, Invids, Jensaarai, Exar Kun, Vong, Coalition, Galactic Alliance, Lost Tribe of the Sith... While they might have been great tactical minds of their era, their experience (despite their age) is not at the level of Jaina and Corran both of whom have masterminded successful operations that have saved the galaxy. Their tactical brilliance doesn't need third party praises, it shines in its own right. Oh, and don't get me started on Durge, a brilliant CIS general and Boba Fett, Mandalore and orchestrator of some of the greatest battles of the Vong war (among other accolades) such as the liberation of Gyndine and Caluula Station Edited June 26, 2015 by StarSquirrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I'm insulted, Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I'm insulted, Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 http://i.imgur.com/zxPWpFq.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) I'm insulted, Star. Well it is just an issue that has always bugged me about the PT Jedi in general. NJO jedi have very few sourcebook appearances and no one respects what Jedi of that era say anyways so I really feel I have to rely on actual facts. Nothing against you, I'm sure you'd prefer to have actual accounts of Plo's ability to present than short, vague statements about great he supposedly is. Problem is, this is the boat* we've found ourselves in. Want the last sip of water before we run out and start drinking the salty stuff and go crazy? *by boat I mean life raft floating in the vast ocean of neverending debates Edited June 26, 2015 by StarSquirrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Star, I would strongly advise against trying to use Battle Meld here. It cannot be applied in this circumstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 http://i.imgur.com/zxPWpFq.gif Palps will be like: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Star, I would strongly advise against trying to use Battle Meld here. It cannot be applied in this circumstance. Are we talking about the same Force Meld? Because I don't think we are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Are we talking about the same Force Meld? Because I don't think we are... We are. It's not applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Having read through Kit Fisto and Plo Koon's list of accolades I'm impressed. Now I have three things to keep in mind. - When referencing Kit Fisto's mission to help take down the chancellor you only needed to cite it once. Once Mace said it there really isn't anyone else who could make that statement more impressive. Oh, and I'd like to make a note that he died within a few seconds. In fact, Sidious killed two other jedi and Fisto still didn't manage to react fast enough to not die that quickly. It is sad. Meanwhile Jaina killed perhaps the second or third most powerful Sith ever. Alone. Just thought I'd point that out - Plo Koon's section is literally filled with generalized sourcebook, second-hand, and action figure statements about him with little actual evidence of his skills, particularly in lightsaber combat. Meanwhile I have dug out of storage entire accounts of Corran and Jaina's duels and fights in which they engage the most powerful enemies of their time. - I would also like to acknowledge a notable issue here. While Plo Koon was one of the most militaristic jedi of his age, the NJO in general are perhaps the most militaristic jedi since the Army of Light. I mean, the order fought in at least four separate galactic-scale wars. Jaina was a veteran before she hit puberty. Corran had fought the Empire, Imperial Remnant, Zinji, Thrawn, Isard, Invids, Jensaarai, Exar Kun, Vong, Coalition, Galactic Alliance, Lost Tribe of the Sith... While they might have been great tactical minds of their era, their experience (despite their age) is not at the level of Jaina and Corran both of whom have masterminded successful operations that have saved the galaxy. Their tactical brilliance doesn't need third party praises, it shines in its own right. Oh, and don't get me started on Durge, a brilliant CIS general and Boba Fett, Mandalore and orchestrator of some of the greatest battles of the Vong war (among other accolades) such as the liberation of Gyndine and Caluula Station I'm not going to answer the third paragraph right now, as I only have time for the first two In response to 1. I would like to point out, that Sidious is the second most powerful, non entity, force user ever. He was on an entire different level than Fisto. I could go on and on how handicapped Fisto was in that fight, but all we need to know is Sidious>>>>>>>>>>the other 4 jedi, even Mace. Yep even Mace. Mace, was carried hard by his Vapaad, and without it would have fallen shortly after Fisto. If Jaina were in that situation, she would have died as well. Don't take Fisto's death as a detriment to his skill, instead, that example only serves to reinforce Sidious as powerful as he was. In response to 2 Are...you calling dad wrong? I kid. Seriously though, sourcebooks have proven to be reliable time after time. Plo Koon has lifetimes more experience than Fisto, and look at how good of a duelist he is. If you want lightsaber feats, I can pull them out, but I felt they were repetitive as many of them went with those sourcebook quotes. Finally, just because Caedus is like the third most powerful sith ever, doesn't mean he is parked up right behind Sidious in terms of power. The gap between the two is very large. Sidious>>>>>>>Caedus. Also, iirc, Jaina only actually killed Caedus because he let her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Two questions Sel: How is it not applicable? Did I miss a rule that somehow permits Battle Meditation but stops Force Meld? Because if Force Meld is off the table so is Battle Meditation ShadowMudkip: If Sidious is #2 then who is #1. If you say Vitiate I will seriously consider not debating you and drop out entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 ShadowMudkip: If Sidious is #2 then who is #1. If you say Vitiate I will seriously consider not debating you and drop out entirely. He said second most powerful force user, not sith. Clearly meaning Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 He said second most powerful force user, not sith. Clearly meaning Luke. whew, I misread that as Sith... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) whew, I misread that as Sith... Happens. Edited June 26, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Two questions Sel: How is it not applicable? Did I miss a rule that somehow permits Battle Meditation but stops Force Meld? Because if Force Meld is off the table so is Battle Meditation ShadowMudkip: If Sidious is #2 then who is #1. If you say Vitiate I will seriously consider not debating you and drop out entirely. No, force meld is off the tables because: Generally battle-meld requires more than three Jedi to be particularly effective, but three can be sufficient if the Jedi are well attuned to one another Since three family members could barely hold a meld together, I doubt Jaina and a irfan can do it alone. You're also wrong about Battle Meditation, it can bolster strength and stamina as well as force reserves. Bastila has never shown the capability of that form, but Satele has. Edited June 26, 2015 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Right concerning this are game mechanics canon business. According to Leland Chee in regards to KOTOR and video game content: Anything that doesn't contradict or exist purely for gameplay is C-canon. https://twitter.com/HolocronKeeper/status/383263147445854208 That it would "facilitate an interesting gaming experience for the player" is not proof it exists purely for gameplay, and that can be said of the entire Star Wars universe. Funnily enough accurate portrayals and fun experiences are not irreconciable. So unless a specific reason can be provided for why Satele's BM feat exists "purely for gameplay" I see no reason to to take it as evidence. It appears a perfectly accurate potrayal of the power and her capacity to use it. Anyway again that the decision, if you want to rail against it do so here.As for Boba Fett. Beni I seriously don't care if Boba has a lightsaber. I don't know why you're so fixated on it, but I really don't care. It was merely a single example among many I can provide of his skill in melee combat. Trust me, I have much more use for his other tools and weapons. Like the disruptor sniper that Shadowmudkip still hasn't addressed...I'd just like to know if Boba possessed his own lightsaber or not.He said second most powerful force user, not sith. Clearly meaning Luke.He said Sith bro and given he rightly stated the gap between Sidious and Caedus to be very large, its pretty obvious he's saying #1 Sidious #2 ? #3 Caedus. At least he better be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 whew, I misread that as Sith... I'm sorry, I can sometimes write things that appear what they are not I would like to point out, that Sidious is the second most powerful, non entity, force user ever This is a true statement, we can all agree Finally, just because Caedus is like the third most powerful sith ever This is confusing, because I was not referring to Sidious as #2 and Caedus as #3, but instead as Sidious=#1 and Caedus=#3, leaving room for Plagueis as #2, where I believe he belongs. But this is inconsequential to the debate at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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