SWTOR Duelling Tournament - Heats/Round 1B: ShadowMudkip vs StarSquirrel

[tunewalker]

Thanks star for putting the Kyp durron thing in there I was saving it for my battle but hey I am glad you were able to use it to Jaina's advantage just as I was going to for Kyp's

[StarSquirrel]

Thanks star for putting the Kyp durron thing in there I was saving it for my battle but hey I am glad you were able to use it to Jaina's advantage just as I was going to for Kyp's

 

Yeah I was tempted to leave it out, but the fact she was dueling for hours and "didn't think, she acted" were good elements. Especially since she only lost to Kyp long before her prime, back when she was in her early twenties and still fighting the Vong

[tunewalker]

Yeah I was tempted to leave it out, but the fact she was dueling for hours and "didn't think, she acted" were good elements. Especially since she only lost to Kyp long before her prime, back when she was in her early twenties and still fighting the Vong

 

And well... its not like she was fighting a slouch there so ya I am right there with you its a really good feat. Pretty sure he decided to train her AFTER that.

 

 

Edit: if you want I can give you a couple Kyp accolades that I was planning on saving to quantify the level she had to be fighting at at that point.

Edited June 26, 2015 by tunewalker

[StarSquirrel]

And well... its not like she was fighting a slouch there so ya I am right there with you its a really good feat. Pretty sure he decided to train her AFTER that.

 

 

Edit: if you want I can give you a couple Kyp accolades that I was planning on saving to quantify the level she had to be fighting at at that point.

 

I think that if I have to start explaining to people the level of power of people like Luke Skywalker, Jacen Solo, Kyp Durron and other powerful jedi of the NJO I think there is a much bigger problem here.

Edited June 26, 2015 by StarSquirrel

[Silenceo]

Apparently copy/paste isn't liking me today.

 

*Public Service Announcement*

"Due to low supply of bullet points in republic space due to increased demand by imperial buyers *stares at Jerec*, all republic personnel will be required to use 'bullet' points with a more linear shape. That is all"

 

It was one of the first things he did as the new Emperor:

 

- Bought all bullet points currently available

- Placed heavy restrictions on newly crafted ones

- Lots of Luxury food, order with bullet points

- Made a cloak out of bullet points, to symbolize their power

 

 

A question though, so this post has SOMETHING to do with the match... Do any of your guys have feats of predicting long-range fire Kip?

 

I think that if I have to start explaining to people the level of power of people like Luke Skywalker, Jacen Solo, Kyp Durron and other powerful jedi of the NJO I think there is a much bigger problem here.

 

Welcome to my world concerning Jerec and Desann... Despite few showings, they perform well against such characters! (Minor characters get no props! )

Edited June 26, 2015 by Silenceo

[cs_zoltan]

Your mistake

http://adamjhowell.com/starwars/ROTSdel03.jpg

 

Sel, they are making fun of Shaak Ti again, punish them

[Beniboybling]

Oh, and he can beat the best of the Jedi order in a direct saber duel.

I don't believe Boba has ever used a lightsaber (in canon) let alone mastered the weapon.

Plo Koon is the absolute perfect counter to Boba. Koon has mastery over Forms IV and V giving him the power he needs to defeat him.

Could you expand on that? Not sure what your getting at there.

So no, they won't go 1v1 with any Jedi, so Satele has no chance to 1v1 Jaina (merely a random example) and don't even think it'll come to that. You're facing an extremely coordinated and motivated team using tactics. This is as much a battle of wits, knowledge, experience, and wisdom as it is power and skill.

While true they can't realistically hope to win by constantly rotating between opponents, only hold them off, they are going to have to engage in a concerted effort alone or in a group at some point.

 

In that respect I wouldn't avoid covering how they'd fare against anyone opponent.

[cs_zoltan]

Whew, that was long. Expect a write up on Plo and Fisto tomorrow, as it seems I have neglected that. Anyways Star, will wait for your reply, but I'm off till tomorrow. This is fun, first time doing something like this

 

You call that long? Casuals...

[Silenceo]

I don't believe Boba has ever used a lightsaber (in canon) let alone mastered the weapon.

 

Hope this falls under 'corrections' but...

 

It is true he never used a lightsaber in cannon, he did in fact use a Beskad, which he used and defeated Jaina Solo in, if I remember correctly, 3 moves. This was when she came to learn from him so that she could defeat Caedus.

 

I will of course leave the rest of this pretty good feat for Star, since it means that in theory, Boba could do the same to any one of those Jedi.

 

(Runs before he can be blamed for making arguments)

Edited June 26, 2015 by Silenceo

[Beniboybling]

I see, very interesting.

[StarSquirrel]

I don't believe Boba has ever used a lightsaber (in canon) let alone mastered the weapon.

When Jaina trains with Boba Fett, he produces a lightsaber and proceeds to stomp her into the dirt. However I don't recall saying he'd master lightsaber combat, merely done well against elite Jedi (namely Jaina). If I gave that impression or said that I apologize I was incorrect. Here are the quotes from the fight where Fett uses a saber against Jaina (and to be fair there isn't a lot of actually using a saber on his part). There also the time in Prey that he wields a saber against Vader.

 

Fett's mind emptied of superfluous thought. Combat was cleansing; he'd done this so often that it was almost a form of meditation. He was in his natural element again, freed from the alien world of relationships he'd never learned to handle.

 

But he'd learned to master every weapon the galaxy had to offer, bar one.

 

"Me, too," said Fett, drawing a lightsaber, "We can teach each other some new tricks."

 

***

 

The next thing she knew, the wind was knocked out of her as he landed a punch in her gut. Her lightsaber was back on and slashing up across Fett's chest in a split second, unplanned; she snapped straight to instant raw instinct. Fett fell back a couple of steps. Jaina bent almost double, gasping for air as her solar plexus screamed in agonized protest at the punch, she she held her lightsaber out in front of her to ward him off.

 

"You--" Nobody had ever jumped her like that before. She hadn't sensed it coming.

 

***

 

"It's hard to sense danger from you" Oh, that's clever. You're just confirming how he can kill more Jedi

 

He does the same thing to Rahm Kota as well

 

However the idea that he will engage at close range (despite my position that he'd manage if forced into it) is flawed. He has means of making distance against Jedi.

 

While true they can't realistically hope to win by constantly rotating between opponents, only hold them off, they are going to have to engage in a concerted effort alone or in a group at some point.

 

In that respect I wouldn't avoid covering how they'd fare against anyone opponent.

 

And from the same page as the last quote above I will also bring you this gem of wisdom from Boba Fett

"No I'm telling you this isn't about lightsaber technique. I'm more than twice your age, no Force powers, and I still got you to drop your guard. Winning isn't about being better. It's finding your opponent's weaknesses and exploiting it."

 

That said, I plan to expand on Boba's arsenal when I cover him specifically. Suffice to say, I don't anticipate either of my non-force users to easily eliminate any of the Jedi (though if Durge can go 1v1 he could likely best Fisto or Bastila as neither show combat feats even close to Kenobi's imo) but they can sufficiently distract them to allow the 1-2 punch of expert duelists Jaina and Corran to pick them off one at a time.

 

And I think the sources I've provided so far should display in some small part how outclassed all these jedi are by Jaina in the Saber wielding department. And I haven't even gotten to the meat and potatoes of my argument. There is much more to come.

 

Edit: oh, and as Sil pointed out as far as I'm aware Boba does in fact know how to use a Beskad as well...

Edited June 26, 2015 by StarSquirrel

[ShadowMudkip]

Could you expand on that? Not sure what your getting at there.

 

This will be covered in my Plo Koon/ Kit Fisto Write up later today

 

You call that long? Casuals...

 

I was referring to how long it took me to write it up, I kept getting pulled away from my laptop.

[StarSquirrel]

Since it is kinda critical to my entire position I will now point out the key elements (beyond their general ******ery) that each character brings to this fight.

 

1. Durge

 

His extreme ability to heal, even after being shot, exploded, stabbed, hacked to pieces, and torn apart make him the ultimate tank. Leaping into battle and lashing out at the Jedi, he throws them off-balance and disrupts their ability to focus on the mental aspects of the fight. A simple voice-modification in the comlink would allow Boba to direct Durge's attacks to the benefit of the team. His sheer strength targeted at someone like... Bastila, might unbalance Satele and drive her to help her ancestor. Bastila has perhaps the weakest combat showings of all the Jedi here, I'd say she is Durge's best target (though Fisto might be as well)

 

 

2. Boba

 

A sound tactical mind who knows how to kill Jedi, a leader and coordinator of elite strike teams, and a deadly accurate shot to boot. With his arsenal (specifically his sniper disruptor) he can hit Jedi with a weapon they can't deflect at range. Not to mention, deflecting weapon fire while dueling requires one to use very different styles and thus will make their dueling drastically worse. If Durge can distract any two of them temporarily (Easily done), then Jaina and Boba or Jaina and Corran could easily focus down any of these Jedi.

 

 

3. Jaina

 

Shatterpoint. Suffice to say, she can determine who is most important in this fight, have Durge distract the others, and focus her and Corran or her and Boba on that target. Her single mindedness, resilience, and skill combined with either her force meld with Corran or Boba's ability to force the jedi to stop or avoid blaster fire would make eliminating them much less difficult.

 

 

4 Corran

 

This is the big one. So I've seen people discount Corran's ability at Tutaminis and I'd like to set the record straight. He, with no training, absorbed the explosion of a warehouse of high explosives and redirected the energy into a mass illusion that affected an entire planet worth of people. That was without training. With it, he could get stabbed with a lightsaber and use the energy to vaporize two elite warriors.

 

Electric Judgement? Ha... by the time the team starts to deal with him all it'll take is Corran drawing his attention, getting blasted, and using Plo's own force power to vaporize him.

 

And even if we tried to ignore the idea that he could vaporize people (which he could) his mental images deluded even Luke Skywalker, and Corran wasn't even trained to use illusions. Imagine that power amped by the strength of a lightsaber or Electric Judgement and then concentrated. He could cause mass illusions that could open the door for all the other team members to kill their targets quickly.

 

 

Oh boy I'd been storing those up and I didn't feel like saving them till I'd gone through all my characters... I still will go through each character's powers, but that right there is a start.

[ShadowMudkip]

While I have a lot of information and a massive post incoming let me clarify some things you obviously missed in your haste to try and poke holes in my team.

 

-I addressed Durge and his role in the team, yet you seem to have ignored the entire post. Durge does not require constant babysitting and they do not need to have constant control of him. He is ultimately a distraction with the strength to kill any one of these Jedi if they make a mistake. The biggest issue is getting him focused on the four Jedi first, once they start attacking him he will not be distracted by his allies. (Regardless of who they are, and I provided a source that supports that.)

 

-As for Force Meld vs Battle Meditation. I'm sorry if you've been deceived by poor argumentation from others, but Battle Meditation doesn't provide some ungodly boost to teamwork and link everyone's minds. It is a passive improvement to their coordination and courage. That skill is very useful on a large battlefield. In a small engagement like this, Force Meld is massively superior.

--Force Meld, literally connects the participants in the force. They operate without speaking, and in some cases without independent conscious thought. Both Corran and Jaina are masters of this ability. It is a meld, not a passive enhancement. Also, Jaina's telepathy allows her to read Boba's mind. While he'll require verbal commands, Jaina and Corran can get a full picture of the battlefield as well as direction and tactical advice from Fett instantly.

--Battle Meditation is passive, easily disrupted if the user cannot focus (as shown with Bastilia, Naga Sadow etc...), and merely boosts morale and stamina (something these jedi would already be doing to themselves. In fact there are no accounts I can find of the ability linking anyone but plenty of it acting more as motivation.

 

So Satele can not link your team mentally, merely bolster them. Jaina and Corran however, can link their minds.

 

People really need to understand Battle Meditation, it is fantastic as an ability to passively bolster troop morale but especially in a small-scale encounter like this, Force Meld is massively superior even when wielded by fewer force-users.

 

- And while my two non-force users can't be a part of the link, I chose them because they didn't need to be. Think of Durge in MMO terms as a Tank and Boba as a ranged DPS. As long as they know their jobs they'll do fine and the other two (linked jedi) can scatter and pick off the jedi one at a time.

 

Also I'll address my counter for Plo Koon. And boy is it a doozy...

 

Edit: Oh, and you just added the portion in your quote I was interested in. Namely that Force Meld can affect non-force users despite primarily being a means of enhancing force-user's skills.

 

- I did not ignore your post, but you did have Corran Horn casting mindtricks, and illusions on Durge to keep him focused, I was simply pointing out that this would require a bit of attention on the part of Horn, if he wanted to keep the illusions up. That was your argument, not mine.

 

- On Meditation vs Meld, I feel a bit of correction is needed here. First, you state that its a passive morale booster... um no.

 

Battle meditation was a Force ability which considerably boosted the morale, stamina, and overall battle prowess of an individual's allies while simultaneously reducing the opposition's combat-effectiveness by eroding their will to fight.

 

You also say its not useful in small scale skirmishes. First off, this is totally wrong. Satele used it in conjunction with force barrier during her fight with SOR Revan. Before you point out its game fight, both abilities (meditation and barrier) are known abilities of Satele's.

 

Though ideal for meditating large-scale conflicts, battle meditation was also effective when employed for the benefit of one's comrades in small skirmishes, attacks, and duels.

 

We see battle meditation always used in large scale combat, because that is where it makes the biggest dent, thus it would actually require active meditation in order to use the ability on such large scale. However we don't see meditation used in small scale combat, so why would we assume that it requires the same level of concentration as large scale meditation? Also, we are speaking about Bastila Shan, the greatest user of battle meditation in the star wars mythos. She mastered the ability before her prime. She will have no trouble with it at all.

 

-I never said that Satele could link my team, what I said, was that she was an accomplished telepath that could do the exact thing as Jaina.

 

What did i edit? I don't recall saying that.

[tunewalker]

Still game fighting, the techniques and HOW they won is still... Non-canon. They won, the how or the why is unknown.

 

IE she knows these techniques their usefullness in small scale is unknown. Considering Meld was INVENTED for small scale and Meditation wasnt its safe to say Meld > Meditation for the purpose of small scale.

Edited June 26, 2015 by tunewalker

[ShadowMudkip]

Per the rules, Boba Fett can not wield a lightsaber, as he was categorized and accepted as a 10 credit individual.

[ShadowMudkip]

Still game fighting, the techniques and HOW they won is still... Non-canon. They won, the how or the why is unknown.

 

That is my point, Satele can use barrier and battle med. This is proven outside of that fight. Also, I'm pretty sure that the only thing that is ambiguous is the PC, as all the NPC's are unchanging throughout all different fights.

[tunewalker]

Per the rules, Boba Fett can not wield a lightsaber, as he was categorized and accepted as a 10 credit individual.

 

So was Grievous, wielding a weapon does not qualify as 10 crediter, lack of ability in the FORCE qualifies. Even Minor Force users were stated to be 10 creditors.

[Aurbere]

Plo Koon has never used Electric Judgment in combat. I had originally believed he would use it as a last resort, but he didn't even use it against Savage.

[ShadowMudkip]

Plo Koon has never used Electric Judgment in combat. I had originally believed he would use it as a last resort, but he didn't even use it against Savage.

 

I'll have to find the quote but yes he has.

[tunewalker]

That is my point, Satele can use barrier and battle med. This is proven outside of that fight. Also, I'm pretty sure that the only thing that is ambiguous is the PC, as all the NPC's are unchanging throughout all different fights.

 

Fight Mechanics are still fight mechanics, also again I remind every one that an ops battle is still equally possible. They are unchanged because they are part of hte "fight mechanics" their abilities exist what was used in the fight and how they won is all 100% ambiguis as fight mechanics are not canon.

[cs_zoltan]

So was Grievous, wielding a weapon does not qualify as 10 crediter, lack of ability in the FORCE qualifies. Even Minor Force users were stated to be 10 creditors.

 

Grievous costs 20 though.

[ShadowMudkip]

Fight Mechanics are still fight mechanics, also again I remind every one that an ops battle is still equally possible. They are unchanged because they are part of hte "fight mechanics" their abilities exist what was used in the fight and how they won is all 100% ambiguis as fight mechanics are not canon.

 

Players can also choose non/minor Force sensitive who do not wield lightsabers, all and any such characters – e.g. Jango Fett, IG-88, Kir Kanos – are worth 10 credits.

 

/5char

[tunewalker]

Grievous costs 20 though.

 

I thought he cost 10, that doesnt make any sense as a non force user to cost 20....

[Aurbere]

I'll have to find the quote but yes he has.

 

The only occasion I am aware of is when he took out Pommel. That is the one and only time he has used it to my knowledge. And I should know, I do host the most comprehensive Plo Koon respect thread on the web.