SWTOR Duelling Tournament - Heats

[cs_zoltan]

Ouch. I'm sure they can fix that, though.

 

Not my mind though. I lost like 10 IQ already.

[Aurbere]

Not my mind though. I lost like 10 IQ already.

 

Can't do anything about that. Should make beating you if we have a match even easier at least.

[Silenceo]

You become one person. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

 

... What about White? It is technically different from the standard color.

[tunewalker]

The absence of no one canon doesn't not make it all non-canon Tunewalker, that is a leap in logic, and Wookieepedia's assumptions in regards to game mechanics contradict Leland Chee's own statements on the matter. So I ask again.

 

your inability to read is astounding. The story is canon, but there is no "canon" version of those characters. It specifically states there is 1 canon version and ALL other versions are non-canon (you read that right? you have read that from Leland to right? I know I have...) which if we can not determine the 1 true one (especially when bioware specifically states they arent going to give us 1 true one) then we can not assume any and we definately can not assume ALL are canon when it is specifically stated that only 1 is canon. If you are going to set 1 as canon then set 1 but you can not set all and say you are following canon rules when the rules specifically state all but 1 are non-canon....

 

 

Edit:

 

heck again official source

 

 

Bioware

we will not be setting a “canon” version of any class or world storyline. Your choices matter – that’s at the heart of our storytelling philosophy at BioWare.

 

Leland

 

Anything that doesn't contradict or exist purely for gameplay is C-canon.

 

obviously each option contradicts with each other, thus only 1 option can be true... and you know as well as I do if I took a couple days to dig I would find a post on MMO game making and fight mechanics being interesting for hte player and thus purely for gameplay purposes. if that's the case that's the proof you asked for. i provided one quote, you provided the other. You just had a problem fully comprehending everything "Anything that doesn't contradict or exist purely for gameplay is C-canon." this entails.

Edited June 27, 2015 by tunewalker

[cs_zoltan]

Can't do anything about that. Should make beating you if we have a match even easier at least.

 

[Silenceo]

SILENCEO Vader http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3344/3426912465_3948a14c69_o.jpg

 

[Aurbere]

 

http://rs5.pbsrc.com/albums/y176/HathBrad/INTERNET%20DOWNLOADS/ANIMATED%20GIFs%202%20-%202011/1310121676_angry_wrestler.gif~c200

[Beniboybling]

*snip*

Your not getting the point Tunewalker, SWTOR is as a whole, a canon entry into the Star Wars universe, and is therefore to be taken as an accurate portrayal of that universe. That means while what it portrays are a myriad of possibilities, they are all realistic possibilities, and the fact that one or the other did not happen doesn't mean abilities are portrayed inaccurately. You can't possibility hope to invalidate all of SWTOR as inaccurate, that's just ludicrous.

 

EDIT: That said for the SWTOR protag chosen i.e. the Emperor's Wrath, we're obviously going with the DS path.

So your ignoring my evidence and just making up the rules as you go I see.

 

If you wish I can copy paste and post it... again....

"Games are for fun" is not a valid reason. I want a specific reason why Satele's BM exists purely for gameplay. Edited June 27, 2015 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

Your not getting the point Tunewalker, SWTOR is as a whole, a canon entry into the Star Wars universe, and is therefore to be taken as an accurate portrayal of that universe, and therefore while what it portrays are a myriad of possibilities, they are all realistic possibilities, and the fact that one or the other did not happen doesn't mean abilities are portrayed inaccurately. You can't possibility hope to invalidate all of SWTOR as inaccurate, that's just ludicrous.

 

EDIT: That said for the SWTOR protag chosen i.e. the Emperor's Wrath, we're obviously going with the DS path."Games are for fun" is not a valid reason.

 

Games are for fun is not the reason, game mechanics are intended for player satisfaction and not for canon accuracy is.

 

look beni there is a REALLY easy solution to this. I am NOT the only one that has interpreted Leland's game mechanics clause the way I did, both Wookie AND Comic Vine's Silver interpreted it this way as well. Because I DO have evidence backing all of this up and you dont have Leland in the pocket in a logical debate you MUST acknowledge the validity of these statements. Now I dont have leland in my pocket either to confirm these so there is a REALLY EASY out I already gave you.

 

All I need is a statement that characters that appear in games will be using all *blank" versions of dialog's and feats. We are also accepting game mechanics *blank blank blank* (if there are any adendums to accepting game mechanics) for the purpose of a fun and easy flowing debate. Acknowledgement that these MAY NOT be 100% accurate to canon as there ARE 2 interpretations of that quote (yours vs Mine... Comic Vine and Wookies). Is all that is required.

[Aurbere]

I'm just gonna interject to say this...

[Beniboybling]

Games are for fun is not the reason, game mechanics are intended for player satisfaction and not for canon accuracy is.

 

look beni there is a REALLY easy solution to this. I am NOT the only one that has interpreted Leland's game mechanics clause the way I did, both Wookie AND Comic Vine's Silver interpreted it this way as well. Because I DO have evidence backing all of this up and you dont have Leland in the pocket in a logical debate you MUST acknowledge the validity of these statements. Now I dont have leland in my pocket either to confirm these so there is a REALLY EASY out I already gave you.

 

All I need is a statement that characters that appear in games will be using all *blank" versions of dialog's and feats. We are also accepting game mechanics *blank blank blank* (if there are any adendums to accepting game mechanics) for the purpose of a fun and easy flowing debate. Acknowledgement that these MAY NOT be 100% accurate to canon as there ARE 2 interpretations of that quote (yours vs Mine... Comic Vine and Wookies). Is all that is required.

Your assuming an absolute where none exists, player satisfaction and canon accuracy aren't irreconcilable.

 

And accept your faulty logic? Sorry bud but no. Again irrespective of what the true story is, they all represent realistic and therefore accurate possibilities. By your logic because no one plot line can be established as true canon, they all contradict one another and therefore are non-canon and non-usable as credible evidence.

 

Your essentially saying that the whole of SWTOR is inaccurate until prove otherwise, which it never will be by the parameters you desire, and your manipulating Chee's words and intentions to support that ridiculous conclusion. And please, do not insult Silver's intelligence by assuming that he ever reached the same.

 

And for the record not all game mechanics are canon, they should be dealt with on a case by case basis. In this case everything Satele has done in the scope of game mechanics is perfectly possible and logical for her to be able to do.

 

Regardless, this is how we plan on operating, for these reasons, whether you agree with the reasoning or not doesn't change the fact that this is how things will be run in this tourney, if your eager for a ruling then there it is.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

Your assuming an absolute where none exists, player satisfaction and canon accuracy aren't irreconcilable.

 

And accept your faulty logic? Sorry bud but no. Again irrespective of what the true story is, they all represent realistic and therefore accurate possibilities. By your logic because no one plot line can be established as true canon, they all contradict one another and therefore are non-canon and non-usable as credible evidence.

 

Your essentially saying that the whole of SWTOR is inaccurate until prove otherwise, which it never will be by the parameters you desire, and your manipulating Chee's words and intentions to support that ridiculous conclusion. And please, do not insult Silver's intelligence by assuming that he ever reached the same.

 

And for the record not all game mechanics are canon, they should be dealt with on a case by case basis. In this case everything Satele has done in the scope of game mechanics is perfectly possible and logical for her to be able to do.

 

Regardless, this is how we plan on operating, for these reasons, whether you agree with the reasoning or not doesn't change the fact that this is how things will be run in this tourney, if your eager for a ruling then there it is.

 

 

I am NOT the only one that backs this up (again points to the fact that Wookie and Silver and other forums take it this way as well)... and the only adendum I have is "MAY" not... I acknowledge whole heartidly that there IS a canon here are you all so blind and arragant to believe that you are 100% correct in your beliefs when it has been specifically stated that there IS 1 canon version and we DONT know it.. that you are all absolute master mind wizards that know everything there is to know about something that can not be known... do you hear yourselves?

[ShadowMudkip]

I have lost track of the argument

[Aurbere]

I am NOT the only one that backs this up (again points to the fact that Wookie and Silver and other forums take it this way as well)... and the only adendum I have is "MAY" not... I acknowledge whole heartidly that there IS a canon here are you all so blind and arragant to believe that you are 100% correct in your beliefs when it has been specifically stated that there IS 1 canon version and we DONT know it.. that you are all absolute master mind wizards that know everything there is to know about something that can not be known... do you hear yourselves?

 

Uh oh! Tune just went nuclear!

[Aurbere]

I have lost track of the argument

 

It happens. Don't worry, it'll get sorted out and you'll be fine.

[tunewalker]

I have lost track of the argument

 

Ok to be clear, all I am asking is the acknowledgement that we DONT KNOW everything, that the version of the characters we are using are based on game mechanics that could or COULD NOT be actual canon fact, that for the sake of these arguments we will be OCCASSIONALLY accepting game mechanics that COULD be non-canon, and that we accept that for the sake of smooth, consistant and fun debates.

 

i acknowledge that there is a canon version and the possibility that some of these game mechanics that I believe to be non-canon are perfectly fine canon depictions, I just need to equal acknowledgement that the opposite is also true, especially of characters like Nox and the Wrath of whom we dont know their names, their species their gender or their personalities for sure (personalities of which dictate their combat responses and can have a profound difference on a fight) we know the possibles but we dont KNOW them for sure. That's all I am asking for. That's all I have been asking for is to set a standard and a straight out that not everything we are using is for sure 100% confirmable as canon and some of the stuff we are using could in fact be non-canon. Not all of it is Non-canon, but we dont know what is Canon, and what is Non-canon in these cases. I just want acknowledgement that we all understand that none of this is confirmable as 100% canon and could turn around 3 times tomorow and all the stuff we are taking as canon could all of a sudden be confirmed as non-canon with a snap of the fingers.

Edited June 27, 2015 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

Uh oh! Tune just went nuclear!

 

Its funny that people think I am upset... but please every one, read these posts and look at the ones when I am upset. I am not upset I am on my knees BEGGING you all to listen to reason. To look at facts and acknowledge that the "assumed" canon is not neccisarily "true canon" yes we likely will NEVER receive the information we need to get for true canon that doesnt mean I dont ever want to use the information in this game, but that does mean any time we DO use it that we acknowledge the fact that its POSSIBLE that its not true canon and our interpretations of game play elements and player choices are just that an interpretation that could turn out to be false, but as we lack the information for "true canon" we are doing our best with the "assumed canon" this is a fact, this is what is being done, but I need people to be man enough to acknowledge that they can not know the unknown.

 

Edit: and set a clear and very consice rule as to what we do and DO NOT accept in these categories to facilitate an accurate and CONSISTENT method for judging what is and isnt canon. I dont want to see it fluctuating on the whims of the people in charge on a what ever they feel like arguing that particular day basis. I want something solid and easy to follow that isnt going to change on me 10 seconds later because some one got a stick up their butt and decided they wanted it the other way for some reason. This is why that whole "all paths are accepted because..." I was cool with, it just had a larger implication then beni had intended. I wasnt lashing out at that ruling that was my interpretation of the rule as it was written. If he wants it clearer it needs to be written in that manner. That's all I am asking. That's all I have been asking.

 

 

Edit 2: if we honestly can not be adult enough to work such a concise ruling out to make sure these things work smoothly and instead we just want to be stubborn and not admit to even the possibility that we could be interpreting things wrong, then I am man enough to walk away. Congrats Dohm'ran you will have won your heat with out competition, because I am not going to play a game in which the rules are what ever the guy in charge says they are on what ever particular day. I get enough of that from 6 year old cousins dont need it on my me time.

Edited June 27, 2015 by tunewalker

[Silenceo]

because I am not going to play a game in which the rules are what ever the guy in charge says they are on what ever particular day. I get enough of that from 6 year old cousins dont need it on my me time.

 

Its a miracle you have tolerated Conquest as long as you have then.

[Aurbere]

Its funny that people think I am upset... but please every one, read these posts and look at the ones when I am upset. I am not upset I am on my knees BEGGING you all to listen to reason. To look at facts and acknowledge that the "assumed" canon is not neccisarily "true canon" yes we likely will NEVER receive the information we need to get for true canon that doesnt mean I dont ever want to use the information in this game, but that does mean any time we DO use it that we acknowledge the fact that its POSSIBLE that its not true canon and our interpretations of game play elements and player choices are just that an interpretation that could turn out to be false, but as we lack the information for "true canon" we are doing our best with the "assumed canon" this is a fact, this is what is being done, but I need people to be man enough to acknowledge that they can not know the unknown.

 

Edit: and set a clear and very consice rule as to what we do and DO NOT accept in these categories to facilitate an accurate and CONSISTENT method for judging what is and isnt canon. I dont want to see it fluctuating on the whims of the people in charge on a what ever they feel like arguing that particular day basis. I want something solid and easy to follow that isnt going to change on me 10 seconds later because some one got a stick up their butt and decided they wanted it the other way for some reason. This is why that whole "all paths are accepted because..." I was cool with, it just had a larger implication then beni had intended. I wasnt lashing out at that ruling that was my interpretation of the rule as it was written. If he wants it clearer it needs to be written in that manner. That's all I am asking. That's all I have been asking.

 

 

Edit 2: if we honestly can not be adult enough to work such a concise ruling out to make sure these things work smoothly and instead we just want to be stubborn and not admit to even the possibility that we could be interpreting things wrong, then I am man enough to walk away. Congrats Dohm'ran you will have won your heat with out competition, because I am not going to play a game in which the rules are what ever the guy in charge says they are on what ever particular day. I get enough of that from 6 year old cousins dont need it on my me time.

 

I'm just joshin' ya, man.

[raandomname]

One thing that I feel still needs to be classified is the Wrath's advanced class and discipline. Are we using a composite that uses two lightsabers, heavy armor and five light saber forms or will I choose the AC and discipline or will the arbiters choose the AC and discipline?

[LadyKulvax]

Think of Darth Malgus, he csn use Jar'kai or a single blade, multiple saber forms

 

 

Ssme goes for all other protags, they are a mix of both ACs.

[Selenial]

Think of Darth Malgus, he csn use Jar'kai or a single blade, multiple saber forms

 

 

Ssme goes for all other protags, they are a mix of both ACs.

 

I disagree entirely, it's clear that the characters had a singular choice.

 

For the Wrath I'd say he went with the single saber route. He was compared to Marka Ragnos if wielding a single blade, and Naga Sadow if he dual wielded. Following them for likely canon fighting styles for the Wrath seems best. I'd say Ragnos because in cutscenes the Wrath only uses a single blade, I know it's a gameplay reason but I feel it makes more sense anyway.

 

Though I guess it could be up to the participants.

[cs_zoltan]

How long the duels usually last btw? Edited June 27, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[Beniboybling]

I am NOT the only one that backs this up (again points to the fact that Wookie and Silver and other forums take it this way as well)... and the only adendum I have is "MAY" not... I acknowledge whole heartidly that there IS a canon here are you all so blind and arragant to believe that you are 100% correct in your beliefs when it has been specifically stated that there IS 1 canon version and we DONT know it.. that you are all absolute master mind wizards that know everything there is to know about something that can not be known... do you hear yourselves?

Tunewalker you are the one who keeps ignoring my points to throw insults, at least I am actually acknowledging what your saying and explaining why you are wrong, I'm appreciate the same courtesy. But if your not prepared to do that then this discussion is pointless. I'll say it one final time, there is no "true canon", BioWare has specifically stated that they don't plan on making one because it doesn't exist. Its not a case of us not knowing, it's just not there. They are therefore all equally valid realistic possibilities, and none of those possibilities can be claimed to be false.

 

So for example in JK Act 3 ending the HoT can either choose to refuse to kill the Emperor, or ragdoll him, BioWare has not said either option is the false one, they are therefore both equally possible. Even if the HoT doesn't ragdoll the Emperor that doen't mean he couldn't even he had chosen to. Likewise in the JC Act 3 ending you can choose to redeem the First Son, or destroy him by telekinetically dominating him. Again even if you choose to redeem him, that doesn't mean you couldn't dominate him if you chose to, they are all realistic possibilities.

 

The same can be said for for example KOTOR II, in the DS option we have Kreia recovering from impaling herself in the stomach and intepreting the Jedi Masters' styles in help the Exile beat them. Even though these events are non-canon, they still represent realistic possibilities, Kreia could have done those things if the Exile followed that path.

 

The fact that there are no non-canon storylines in SWTOR only reinforces them all as realistic, accurate possibilities. Go and look at any respect thread on the protags, all their abilities/possibilities are listed for that reason.

 

I'm not having this debate with you because I'm "blind and arrogant", and frankly I'm perfectly happy to establish rulings on this matter. The reason I'm having this debate with you is because I want you to understand my perspective and actually accept the reasoning behind any rulings, rather than begrudgingly abiding by it, but your refusing to even listen to what I'm saying, so it would appear force cooperation is the only option. Shame but I tried.

One thing that I feel still needs to be classified is the Wrath's advanced class and discipline. Are we using a composite that uses two lightsabers, heavy armor and five light saber forms or will I choose the AC and discipline or will the arbiters choose the AC and discipline?

I think we should for the most part, as I have said, accept all possibilities as equally valid. There are only a very few possibilities I can think of that eliminate others as possible such as race, gender and indeed advanced classes.

 

So for race and gender I think it best to leave that ambiguous, and in that respect its non-applicable to the debate. However I think it should be allowed for players to choose an advanced class and the abilities that come with it. Let's not go as far as disciplines though, that's a little too complex and frankly the whole thing is a pure game mechanic. I also think, and this is no doubt already assumed, that we should choose the standard/assumed DS/LS alignment.

 

Other than that though its realistically not possible to create an all encompassing rule that every situation, best to establish a line of reasoning by which we approach everything on a case by case basis. And again I'm going with the notion that all options should be treated as equally valid as portrayals of abilities, as far as they don't actually eliminate the possibility of other abilities being had. Basically we should and only can treat this on a case by case basis.

 

Hopefully this is something we can all get behind. I don't which to draw this matter out any longer.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Beniboybling

[raandomname]

I think we should for the most part, as I have said, accept all possibilities as equally valid. There are only a very few possibilities I can think of that eliminate others as possible such as race, gender and indeed advanced classes.

 

So for race and gender I think it best to leave that ambiguous, and in that respect its non-applicable to the debate. However I think it should be allowed for players to choose an advanced class and the abilities that come with it. Let's not go as far as disciplines though, that's a little too complex and frankly the whole thing is a pure game mechanic. I also think, and this is no doubt already assumed, that we should choose the standard/assumed DS/LS alignment.

 

Other than that though its realistically not possible to create an all encompassing rule that every situation, best to establish a line of reasoning by which we approach everything on a case by case basis. And again I'm going with the notion that all options should be treated as equally valid as portrayals of abilities, as far as they don't actually eliminate the possibility of other abilities being had. Basically we should and only can treat this on a case by case basis.

 

Hopefully this is something we can all get behind. I don't which to draw this matter out any longer.

Alrighty, sounds good. Im choosing Juggernaught then.