Beniboybling Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 So with the core project being rebooted here, I thought I'd start a tangent thread less related to Force abilities but nonetheless something we can gauge, strategy! The purpose of this thread will be for the community to come together to discuss that greatest tacticians in history, and reach a consensus and rankings on the very top ten. Note that I'm not asking for a list of who you think the most skilled tacticians are, as always we'll do this one position at a time. First of, lets go over the decision making process. For those participating or spectating over at the Most Powerful Force Users, I'm sure you already know how the process operates, but in this respect it differs slightly. As before to ensure the discussion progresses smoothly and stays organised final decisions will be made by a council of prominent debaters on these forums, which consists of Myself, Aurbere and Selenial. The decision has to be unanimously accepted by all three of us and endorsed by at least two other participants in the discussion. This way we can ensure verdicts are made on merit and without bias. Stage 1 – Choosing CandidatesFor each position on the list, from #1 through #10, we’ll start by getting suggestions from the community as to who they think could be potential candidates for the spot in question. In the end a maximum of three candidates will be chosen. We encourage people not simply to provide names, but to back up their recommendations with facts i.e. feats & accolades and other valid demonstrations of ability for everybody else to consider.Stage 2 – Making a ComparisonOnce the candidates have been chosen the council will convene to draw up a formal comparison (without verdicts) for the rest of the community to review. The comparison in this respect would be made up of three sphere of my own invention, that I believe cover every aspect of strategy, they are as follows: Micro Capabilities: the ability to strategise on a microcosmic scale i.e. command forces and devise strategies within the scope of a singular confrontation e.g. a ground engagement, a space engagement, any battle that has one front, and involves the tacticians hands on involvement. The focus being placed on the ability to adapt on the fly, capitalise on the strengths and weaknesses of individuals, use the environment to your advantage etc. Macro Capabilities: the ability to strategise on a macrocosmic scale i.e. command forces and devise strategies in large scale, multifaceted conflicts involving multiple confrontations e.g. an interplanetary war, galactic war, a full scale planetary invasion, any battle that involves multiple fronts. The focus being placed on logistical management, outmaneuvering opponents, mobilising forces, establishing advantages prior to a conflict etc. Strategic Impact: the overall impact any one tacticians strategic ability and actions had on the conflicts they were involved in, did they turn the tide of the war? Or were they just a cog in a larger machine? NOTE: If it is obvious that only one candidate should be considered, we can jump straight to the verdict.Stage 3 – Reaching a DecisionAfter reviewing the comparison, the community is encouraged to provide reasoned argument concerning who they believe to be superior overall and/or in what categories, as well as provide additional feats, accolades etc. that may have been missed, in general how they believe they would be ranked, and their reasons for believing this. Once this discussion has run its course, it will be down to the council to reach a verdict. The chosen candidate will them be added to the list, and we’ll move on to the next, repeating the process.RULES OF THE DEBATE No trolling, flaming and personal attacks of any nature are permitted. Mature and constructive discussion is the only kind allowed, anything else will be ignored and reported. We also advise against aggressive debating. Force abilities that can be used to bolster an individuals tactical skill are considered valid feats. This is a post-4000 BBY list and therefore any strategists who died prior are not being considered as candidates. This is due to a lack of information on earlier periods. This list considers Legends and Canon material to be valid, including post-ROTJ material and G-Canon statements. However Canon material specifically related to the portrayal of strategic abilities takes precedence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 RANKED CHARACTERS #1 Complete comparisons and reasoning for each ranking can be found below. Current State of the Debate Candidates being chosen for #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) I nominate Grand Admiral Thrawn for #1. Reasons - Nearly brought the NR to its knees in mere months - Was outnumbered and low resources - Set a new standard for tactics - Only was defeated by treachery of his body guard - Was not afraid to take another persons idea and improve upon it Those who might challenge his # 1 position: Nek ???? Nek and Thrawn really are the cream of the crop in my opinion. Edited June 21, 2015 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raandomname Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Thrawn, no contest imho. There is a reason why afaik he is the only non-force user that is banned in the Kaggath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Thrawn has to be #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Naturally Thrawn should be #1, that said I haven't read material on him so I was interested to here if he possesses any accolades saying he is the best, or if it is merely self evident from his capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Revan > Thrawn. And I'm perfectly happy to make that case, any challengers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Revan > Thrawn. And I'm perfectly happy to make that case, any challengers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Revan > Thrawn. And I'm perfectly happy to make that case, any challengers? I kinda agree with this Thrawn and Revan are very close in tactical prowess and skills.So I could see either one going 1-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 :eek: Is this an acceptance of my Challenge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I kinda agree with this Thrawn and Revan are very close in tactical prowess and skills.So I could see either one going 1-2. Meh... I'll be that guy. Revan's tactical skill is terribly overrated. So much so that I would put Jar Jar ahead of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Is this an acceptance of my Challenge? Well this is my argument: Thrawn is awesome. I await your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Well this is my argument: Thrawn is awesome. I await your response. Revan has a cool mask though. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Meh... I'll be that guy. Revan's tactical skill is terribly overrated. So much so that I would put Jar Jar ahead of him. Well we all know Jar Jar is a great Gungan General and clearly should be number 3 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Well we all know Jar Jar is a great Gungan General and clearly should be number 3 . He has a fairly good record. So... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheaterLL Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I nominate Darth Sidious for #3 for constructing and completing a plan to overtake the whole Galaxy. I nominate Nute Gunray for #500 for loosing the largest droid army in history against an undefended planet. I vote Mitth'raw'nuruodo for #1 I vote Revan for #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I nominate Darth Sidious for #3 for constructing and completing a plan to overtake the whole Galaxy. I nominate Nute Gunray for #500 for loosing the largest droid army in history against an undefended planet. I vote Mitth'raw'nuruodo for #1 I vote Revan for #2 In all honesty I would probably drop Mandalore the Ultimate or Cassus Fett above Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 In all honesty I would probably drop Mandalore the Ultimate or Cassus Fett above Revan. The two people who lost a war solely because Revan was a better tactician than them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The two people who lost a war solely because Revan was a better tactician than them? The Republic could have won without him. It had production capabilities and population--even technology--that the Mandalorians could not compete with. (Just look at the Atlas map to gauge the size). The fact that the Mandalorians beat the Republic as much as they did attests to the skills of their commanders. And Fett did beat Revan at Jaga's Cluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) In all honesty I would probably drop Mandalore the Ultimate or Cassus Fett above Revan. Well Cassuss is way better then Madalore the Ultimate but not better then Revan.Cassuss would be ranked 4 behind Nek. Edited June 21, 2015 by Jarons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raandomname Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 In all honesty I would probably drop Mandalore the Ultimate or Cassus Fett above Revan. Agreed. Its impresive that the Mandalorians almost defeated the Republic that eclipsed them completelly in terms of basically everything, not that Revan was actually able to defeat the Mandos wth the immense resources available to the Republic. Also special props to Cassus Fett for reorganising a bunch of normades into one of the galaxy's most disciplined fighting forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Someone want to tell me what exactly is going on here? Bring me up to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raandomname Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Important question: the thread title is "the most talented tactician", while the OP refers to strategists. However, the two are not synominous. As far as my understanding goes, a tactician commands battles and actual engagements, dealing with terrain, formations etc. and basically decides how a battle is fought, while a strategists coordinates entire military forces and logistics on the large scale and decides where, when and by whom a battle is fought. So is this thread only about tacticians, only about strategists or both? Edited June 21, 2015 by raandomname Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The Republic could have won without him. It had production capabilities and population--even technology--that the Mandalorians could not compete with. (Just look at the Atlas map to gauge the size). The fact that the Mandalorians beat the Republic as much as they did attests to the skills of their commanders. And Fett did beat Revan at Jaga's Cluster. Not really, by the time the Republic actually responded, the Mandalorins had conquered many worlds and had the production capability to match the Republic. And there are numerous quotes that state it was solely Revan (Or in other cases, Revan and the Exile) who beat the mandalorians back. Not to mention that Revan's best victory wasn't even the mandalorians wars, it was turning every Jedi he turned, bending fleets to his will and subjugating any people who could stop his rise to power. Not to mention there's no actual evidence that Revan was at the Jaga's Cluster that I know of, just that his forces were there. Not that beating someone once is valid proof of superiority anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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