Kaggath Battlegrounds Final: Republic Resistance vs Imperial Droid Division

[Beniboybling]

Something from Lady:

I would like to point out that the assassination attempt on Nek was very well planned out and was accomplished by Vong hiding in busts of himself throughout his ship. They still couldn't kill him.

 

One question I would like to ask is how IG-88 gets on-board, the Imperious will be swarmed by fighters all of which can destroy his vessel. The Imperious itself has only one hangarbay depicted on the vessel and it would be incredibly well-guarded and security on the ship given it was the prize of Krayt's Armada would be immense.

 

Republic Intelligence itself could find out by IG-88, as could Mace Windu. Mace Windu has seen shatterpoints of crucial events in the war and that was despite the Force being clouded in the Dark Side. Nomi Sunrider could also forsee this event.

 

More on the note of Nomi Sunrider, could she not telepathically attack Trench from long distance like she did to Aleema Keto? as the battle begins to render him inert and allow Nek to out-play the entire enemy fleet un-opposed. That to could reveal the plans for IG-88's assasination attempt given it would be crucial information for Trench and something he would very likely be thinking about.

Fair points, though I'd raise that drop pods are an option, though they would still have to bypass fighter screens. Edited April 9, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

I don't mean to rain on Rayla's parade, but...

 

While it is possible for Nomi to mentally attack Trench, she could only do so to Aleema by honing in on her dark side presence. Trench doesn't put out that kind of presence, so I don't see the comparison.

[Beniboybling]

Seems unlikely she'd be able to hone in on his presence.

[Beniboybling]

So any more thoughts on how IG-88 might board the Imperious?

 

I'm thinking they would have to batter through its defences before they can launch boarding parties.

[raandomname]

So any more thoughts on how IG-88 might board the Imperious?

 

I'm thinking they would have to batter through its defences before they can launch boarding parties.

1. the Praetor overloads the Imperious' shields

2. IG uses his cloaked ship to approach unnoticed

3. the IG2000 docks somewhere on the Imperious, most ships have docking rings or theyll just blow a hole into the armor somewhere, once again the Praetor could take care of that

4. Dark Troopers head to the bridge

5. IG heads to the generator

6. imho Mace is the only one who we can safelly say that he is able to stop the Dark Troopers, but even if he is onboard, which seems unlikelly, he wont be able to be in 2 places at the same time, allowing IG to overload the generator, while Mace fights the DTs, killing Mace, Nek and the Imperious

 

Edit: imho the change from the Bellator to the Imperious cost LK the space victory

Edited April 12, 2015 by raandomname

[Beniboybling]

I would like to remind everybody that the Imperious was stalemating a fleet of enemy Pallaeons before another fleet attacked it at which point the shields finally went down and it escaped the battle.

 

The idea of the Praetor single-handedly performing better than a fleet of Pallaeons against the Imperious is ludicrous in my opinion.

Fighting talk!

[StarSquirrel]

Fighting talk!

Rayla forgets that in that instance there was an entire shipyards worth of firepower backing up the Imperious and it didn't hold the fleet for very long.

 

Not to mention there was confusion over who was in control of the ship so I don't believe the third fleet was focusing entirely on the Imperious's destruction...

 

Overhyped will not get you anywhere Rayla.

[Beniboybling]

Rayla forgets that in that instance there was an entire shipyards worth of firepower backing up the Imperious and it didn't hold the fleet for very long.

 

Not to mention there was confusion over who was in control of the ship so I don't believe the third fleet was focusing entirely on the Imperious's destruction...

 

Overhyped will not get you anywhere Rayla.

'Entire shipyard's worth of firepower', it wasn't even close in actual fact the amount of ships that left the system the moment the fighting started and the complete lack of defenses on the shipyard itself is hardly going to make up the difference against what? 8 Pallaeons?

Proxy war!

[Aurbere]

So, we're still going with IG-2000 having a cloaking device?

[StarSquirrel]

Proxy war!

it still refutes your point that the Imperious alone held off the entire 3rd fleet. In fact there is little evidence of the Imperious actually fighting alone at all. When Stazi refused to surrender he sprung his own trap and the GA fleet jumped in and the shipyard guns opened up on the imps. Up to that time the Imperious wasn't bearing the brunt of the 3rd fleets 9 pEllen class.

 

I'll also add that the proper comparison between a Pellaeon and imperious is the same as between an imp 1 and imp 2 Star destroyer.

 

I'm not trying to make the Imperious out to be weak, but please stop overhyping things. The comparison above is what we should be using.

[Beniboybling]

So, we're still going with IG-2000 having a cloaking device?

Well it was made so in the last Kaggath... Edited April 14, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

Well it was made so in the last Kaggath...

 

 

Like he needed to be more OP.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Aurbere

[Beniboybling]

OK I think I'll be wrapping up space soon, so post final thoughts if you have any.

[ShadowMudkip]

So I have been following the Kaggath series but never posted because I was not subbed, but now that I am I thought I might say something before the space battle is wrapped up. First off, lets remember that Nek is an incredibly capable tactician that is far ahead of Trench in terms of both feats and accolades.

 

One thing I want to get too is the starfighter situation. The IDD's Tartans would do heavy damage against the RR's fighters, however, the Tartans would first have to be in range of the fighters. I believe Nek would hold back his fighters and bombard the enemy using the long range setting on the Venators, thus forcing the IDD to engage. Nek would have at least some knowledge of how a Tartan works since his time period was very close to that of the Galactic Empire's. This is why he would hold starfighters back against the Tartans. This automatically puts the RR ahead since the long range turbolasers would weaken IDD ships, unless most land on the Praetor.

 

I don't know why the SPHA-T is not viable in this situation, the Open Circle fleet was able to use it to great effectiveness during the Battle of Coruscant. There were thousands of CIS ships and even more CIS starfighters, yet the Venators seemed to do just fine. Why couldn't they do it here where the RR has a fighter advantage and many of the IDD ships are just corvettes?

 

Lastly, the DBY-827 turbolasers had three different firing patterns. In addition to the firing settings, the turbolaser turret had three firing patterns for different situations. The first was the one-two punch firing pattern, which worked by having the first laser knock out shields or heavy armor protecting the target, then have the second laser hit the target itself. This pattern was often combined with a medium firing setting and long targeting mode to knock out a ship's vital systems before it got too close, all the while conserving energy for other maneuvers. Second was the one-two continual firing pattern, utilized against small swarming enemies by creating flak. The firing setting determined how many shots could be fired before stopping to prevent the turbolaser from overheating, so low settings were often used with this pattern. The third pattern was to fire both lasers together. This was a general purpose method; on lower power settings it could create a flak that would conserve some energy for other maneuvers. This method was faulty in the fact that it would leave gaps in between ships and allow more starfighters to come through, so it was utilized when power mattered more than rate. On medium power, it could knock out shields and allow allied starfighters to attack areas the turbolaser could not reach. On the highest power setting, this would punch through shields and incinerate their targets. Taken from Wookie.

 

This means that the Venator is incredibly adaptable to the situations presented in the battle.

[Beniboybling]

Good points, I would not however that the Preator with its long range ion cannons as the ability to temporarily disable the Venator's DBYs, and that would help them get their Tartans into range before suffering too much damage.

[raandomname]

2 more things Ill put out there:

1. Concussion missiles: Both Skipreys and Shadow Droids have them and they really are quite advantageous in starfighter combat. Each Skiprey carries 18 and Id guesstimate the Shadow Droids carrying about 9, so that could allow each Skiprey to take out up to 6 of the RR's weaker fighters and the SDs to take out up to 3 of the weaker RR's fighters with conc missiles alone.

2 Firing angles: like with other Star Destroyers, the Venators have very limited forward firing angles. Trench will be aware of this and with the IDD's smaller and more maneuverable ships, he may be able to evade the brunt of the Venator's fire power. Nek will of course be able to counter Trench's moves, but that will be difficult when he is fighting for his live/dead.

 

Besides these things, I think the main thing that still has to be discussed in greater detail is boarding/infiltrating the Imperious. If IG can pull this of its basically game over.

[Selenial]

Firstly, yay Resub. Secondly, this post isn't an attack on Rayla at all, I think her fleet choices were brilliant, and I would have done the same if I wasn't steering clear of items from my last faction.

 

With that said, I think we seriously need to readdress the Fleet guidelines for this series. Not necessarily now, but soon. I think the fact Rayla got away with taking the same amount of Venators as another ship (like an Imp) is ridiculous. The Universal tech rule is basically being applied by her supporters to make it an equal of the Imp-1 in ship to ship combat, and rightly so because the Universal tech rule is designed to do that.

 

What's not acceptable is the number of fighters she gets for a fleet like that. The Venators were warships, they were absolutely horrendous if you were to build a fleet of them alone, because they had no garrison deployment, sub standard troop carrying capabilities and terrible vehicle management when fully decked with StarFighters. The issue is that these Kaggaths are supposedly lasting days, if not a couple weeks. Supply carrying and vehicle drops aren't even remotely an issue for any fleets, so what should be an advantage for everyone else isn't one anymore. Mainly because the size of fleets, and the size of armies in this setup is skewed insanely to one side.

 

The Venators are literally the only ship in the mythos that are like this, and really for next time special rules should be implicated for them.

 

TL;DR: They can match IMP-1's in ship to ship combat, not including their hax-fighters, and give up things that aren't even relevant in this Kaggath to have said ridiculous fighter numbers, where other ships have to keep their burdens of cargo or troops.

 

Again, not wanting a change now but it's something I've wanted to say for a while.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Selenial

[Aurbere]

Welcome back, Sel!

[Beniboybling]

The Universal tech rule is basically being applied by her supporters to make it an equal of the Imp-1 in ship to ship combat, and rightly so because the Universal tech rule is designed to do that

By the universal tech rule, the Venator-class is unchanged, and is by no means made an equal to the ISD, considering they were both introduced in 22BBY. So I'm not sure what your referring to there, if this were the case, I would have explictly assigned an analog, that not something participants have the power to decide. Edited April 17, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

By the universal tech rule, the Venator-class is unchanged, and is by no means made an equal to the ISD, considering they were both introduced in 22BBY. So I'm not sure what your referring to there, if this were the case, I would have explictly assigned an analog, that not something participants have the power to decide.

 

Well it doesn't particularly matter anyway, because the Venator frankly is a match for it. I'm just saying that since both have the same accolades in terms of armor and shielding, even if someone thinks an Imp has better feats it won't matter, they're standardized out.

 

The fact remains though that a Venator without its fighter compliment is still worth many smaller cruisers, with fighters it's simply unbalanced in a tournament like this.

[Beniboybling]

Well it doesn't particularly matter anyway, because the Venator frankly is a match for it. I'm just saying that since both have the same accolades in terms of armor and shielding, even if someone thinks an Imp has better feats it won't matter, they're standardized out.

 

The fact remains though that a Venator without its fighter compliment is still worth many smaller cruisers, with fighters it's simply unbalanced in a tournament like this.

*shrug* Perhaps, I think I understand your point. Something to consider.

 

Though it probably won't matter going in to Classic Mode.

[Selenial]

*shrug* Perhaps, I think I understand your point. Something to consider.

 

Though it probably won't matter going in to Classic Mode.

 

Depends on the size we finally settle on for Classic mode, given that we've had anywhere from 300 million to 15,000 as troop totals....

[Beniboybling]

Depends on the size we finally settle on for Classic mode, given that we've had anywhere from 300 million to 15,000 as troop totals....

Well whatever it is it will be relative to the fleets, if not defined by them... we shall see.

[raandomname]

So any thoughts on boarding the Imperious?

[Beniboybling]

I have the following from Lady:

So I am going to remind everyone of two rules here:

 

1.That factions learn lessons from previous Kaggaths.

2.That factions can upgrade weaponry, etc... in small quantities from their supplier.

 

The Resistance has learnt the lessons of assassination and cloaking devices once before and will hardly be careless enough to repeat similar mistakes again. I propose that the Resistance would install Crystal Gravfield Traps on the Imperious and the Venators. This trap would counter-act the IG-2000's cloaking device.

While her interpretations of the rules is sound, I am unsure as to whether they would acquire a gravfield trap, or feel the need for one, as I don't believe stealth has been employed against them yet.

 

Republic Intelligence does presumably have significant reach though, so it is possible.