Beniboybling Posted April 4, 2015 Author Share Posted April 4, 2015 The clones themselves? Not a chance. With some tricks from Nek? Certainly, but not that likely. IG-88 could take Nek out pretty easily if he boarded the flagship.I figure if some of the blast doors where fitted with ray shields they might be able to trap them. However, I suspect they could tear down standard blast doors. Its definitely a possibility, however he'd have to get to the bridge undetected, and defeat Nek's Jedi protectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 Something from Lady:I would point out that the Vong tried very hard to assassinate Nek and due to his own genius and some Jedi help he got out of his ship alive. He also meanwhile kicked the Vong's *** for a good bit in the battle as well. Nek is no stranger to assassins and always prepares for the worst events. Even if the Imperious is somehow, despite being a technological marvel, seen as not safe enough, Nek is more than capable of building a CIC in the Green Jedi Enclave and commanding the fleet from that point. Good luck assassinating him then.Nek doesn't know what's coming, so I doubt she'd take such drastic action. However, if IG-88 were to instead aim for the ships vitals, he could at the very least drive him from the flagship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raandomname Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 OK so I suppose its my responsibility to add some fuel to the dwindling flames. I thought it might be worth having a closer look at capital ships in a neutral setting if you will. In terms of flagships, despite not knowing the Imperious' exact firepower the Praetor is over three times its size, and has long range ion cannons, in a straight up fight the Praetor would most certainly win. The Venator-class is a dedicated warship, twice the size of a Vindicator and with powerful and precise firepower, in favorable conditions one Venator has easily dispatched 4 Munificents without taking a scratch. The Vindicator-class is more durable, but given its size likely not by a great deal, I'd say it would take three such vessels to take down a Venator, whereas a Venator could likely dispatch two. In terms of the Acclamator, in comparison to the Vindicator has inferior firepower but superior shielding, so in that respect is likely equal to a Vindicator, and other factors would decide any victor. If based on this we were to make a rough estimation, we could say that the Resistance's combined capital ship force (excluding the flagship) could take down over 30 Vindicators before destruction, so they outgun the IDD twice over, and the Acclamators with favourable conditions, could likely take the Vindicators. This would allow some Venators to back up the Imperious, even so I'd say the majority of Venators would be required to take down the Praetor without suffering unfavorable casualties, so it will certainly soak up the Resistance's firepower advantage. However given that the Resistance can spare six, which should be enough, so they retain the advantage. This of course is not accounting for fighters and corvettes, the Resistance has 4,600 fighters at its disposal, the IDD 1,764, they are outnumbered almost three to one, by notably superior fighters no less. Even if we assume that 1:1 ratio, that still leaves the Resistance with an excess of around 2,800, requiring the corvettes to take down at least a 100 each. As Rayla pointed out, the Crossfires have heavy shielding, and while the Ionizers are lightly shielded, they have a heavy payload, then we have Jedi pilots to consider. It seems doubtful that the Tartans will not be destroyed before they can take down 100 fighters. I think at best that they will break even. Now of course these are subjective guesstimates, but I think it demonstrates that with the Resistance's revised strength the Droid Division cannot overwhelm the Resistance through firepower a lone, and that this battle will be decided by a combination of tactics, stylistic advantages in ship to ship combat and dog fighting, and the effectiveness of boarding parties. Given that I suggest we focus on those three groups, and what impact they will have. I think the Resistance has a solid position currently, so I'll focus on throwing in support for the IDD from now on. Honestly even with the new numbers the IDD still has a large firepower advatage. Numbers dont lie. I dont see why it takes three Vindicators to take on a Venator (btw the Vindicators are dedicated warships as well, as are most other ships in the Kaggath and Munificirnts are fying POSs, beating them isnt that special) two Vindicators have the same firepower as a Venator and combined probably have stronger defences. Im also not underestimating the Venators firepower, remember that it was me who originally argued for one DBY=8 standard turbos, while most of you guys thought that they were weaker. That means that it takes 12 Vindicators to take on the Venators, leaving four Vindicators to deal with the Acclamators. When one Vindicator=one Acclamator, then the Preator has to deal with the Imperious and nine Acclamators, which I think it is easilly capable of, considering that the Preator alone still vastly outguns even the RR's new and larger fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I figure if some of the blast doors where fitted with ray shields they might be able to trap them. However, I suspect they could tear down standard blast doors. Its definitely a possibility, however he'd have to get to the bridge undetected, and defeat Nek's Jedi protectors. Let's remind ourselves of what IG-88 has at his disposal. Flechette launchers, various poisons and gasses, two rapid-fire laser cannons, concussion grenades, and sonic weaponry. His weapons are practically designed to kill Force users. Not to mention his hacking ability. If he is tasked with the assassination of Nek, he can lock the bridge down, funnel in gasses, and then barge in with all of his weapons blazing. There is a very high possibility for Nek's death in that scenario. Of course, I expect the ship to be heavily defended, and IG would have to get past space defenses, including fighter swarms, to even get to the flagship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 Honestly even with the new numbers the IDD still has a large firepower advatage. Numbers dont lie. I dont see why it takes three Vindicators to take on a Venator (btw the Vindicators are dedicated warships as well, as are most other ships in the Kaggath and Munificirnts are fying POSs, beating them isnt that special) two Vindicators have the same firepower as a Venator and combined probably have stronger defences. Im also not underestimating the Venators firepower, remember that it was me who originally argued for one DBY=8 standard turbos, while most of you guys thought that they were weaker. That means that it takes 12 Vindicators to take on the Venators, leaving four Vindicators to deal with the Acclamators. When one Vindicator=one Acclamator, then the Preator has to deal with the Imperious and nine Acclamators, which I think it is easilly capable of, considering that the Preator alone still vastly outguns even the RR's new and larger fleet. A fair assessment, however even if the case, is the Praetor really so strong that it can take on the Imperious and nine Acclamators (or around 4 Venators, or a mixture, depending on how the battle goes)? Perhaps looking at firepower alone, but consider that a force of such power has enough strength to punch through the Praetor's shields if they focus their fire, if they hit the right spots they could potentially do crippling damage. However its a fair point the Praetor has enough firepower to keep them at a distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) A fair assessment, however even if the case, is the Praetor really so strong that it can take on the Imperious and nine Acclamators (or around 4 Venators, or a mixture, depending on how the battle goes)? Perhaps looking at firepower alone, but consider that a force of such power has enough strength to punch through the Praetor's shields if they focus their fire, if they hit the right spots they could potentially do crippling damage. However its a fair point the Praetor has enough firepower to keep them at a distance. Just wanted to note that unlike most Imperial warships, The Praetor II has its Bridge buried and defended along a thick ridge, which allows it to be easily defend. It also has incredibly powerful armor, with its reactor covered as well, unlike most Imperial vessels which have a bulge. *Disappears again* Edited April 5, 2015 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raandomname Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 A fair assessment, however even if the case, is the Praetor really so strong that it can take on the Imperious and nine Acclamators (or around 4 Venators, or a mixture, depending on how the battle goes)? Perhaps looking at firepower alone, but consider that a force of such power has enough strength to punch through the Praetor's shields if they focus their fire, if they hit the right spots they could potentially do crippling damage. However its a fair point the Praetor has enough firepower to keep them at a distance. Thats another great thing about the Praetor, at least when you look at it, it doesnt have any visible weak points, unlike many other Star Destroyers. Furthermore, while the Acclamators are durable, they lack significant firepower, while the Praetor is durable AND has insane firepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raandomname Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Just wanted to note that unlike most Imperial warships, The Praetor II has its Bridge burred and defended along a thick ridge, which allows it to be easily defend. It also has incredibly powerful armor, with its reactor covered as well, unlike most Imperial vessels which have a bulge. *Disappears again* I just posted basically the same thing. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raandomname Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) OMG, I just had the most awesome, ridiculous idea ever. Couldnt IG hack himseld into the databases of the Grand Army of the Republic, install himself as supreme commander and order the execution of Order 66? Edit: on boarding parties, the more I think about it, the more likely does it seems that the IDD will succeed. The best procedure would probably be similar to that used against the PH in the last match. The Praetor concentrates its insame firepower on the Imperious. When its shields go down for a short amount of time, IG will use his insane precision to dock onto the Imperious with his ship that is equipped with a SoroSuub stealth field. Onboard his ship he has a squad of approximately half a dozen Dark Troopers that head to the bridge to kill Nek. Seeing how the RR has only 50 Jedi and how some of them are already out there piloting TwinTails, I doubt that Nek will be guarded by more then 2 or 3 Jedi and honestly, I cant see the Dark Troopers with their superior numbers, durability and firepower failing and while they are at it, they may as well take over the ship and attack the RR's fleet with it. Meanwhile, IG heads to the main reactor and should the Dark Troopers fail for whatever reason, hell activate self-destruct. While Nek is great, he just isnt so good that he could devise a plan to stop the Dark Troopers, stop IG and co-ordinate the battle effectivelly. Even if the boarding fails, which is most unlikelly imho, it will still drastically distract Nek and may at least allow the IDD to gain a tactical edge. Edited April 6, 2015 by raandomname Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 This would require him hacking into the HoloNet to download information, which, as far as I'm aware, is against the rules. I believe it is for communication only. Also, if you're suggesting he could hack into the ships for it, I doubt it. I find it unlikely that the Republic would store the super-secret Jedi kill order on Jedi cruisers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raandomname Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 This would require him hacking into the HoloNet to download information, which, as far as I'm aware, is against the rules. I believe it is for communication only. Also, if you're suggesting he could hack into the ships for it, I doubt it. I find it unlikely that the Republic would store the super-secret Jedi kill order on Jedi cruisers. Oh yeah, youre right. Forgot the Holonet rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) So, what about Nek's precognition? It could allow him to see through any of Trench's strategies and counter accordingly. There's also Windu's Shatterpoint. If he is in the space battle, he could perceive weaknesses in the IDD formation. Both could prove deadly to the IDD fleet. Edited April 7, 2015 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 I wasn't aware Nek had precognitive powers, but then I found this on Wookieepedia:A skilled tactician, Bwua'tu had the ability to accurately predict the enemy's projected battle tactics and counter them efficiently. Jedi Master Kyp Durron believed that the Admiral was Force-sensitive, but Bwua'tu simply knew not only how his enemy thought, but how the enemy thought their enemy thought. Such intuition afforded Bwua'tu the ability to formulate effective defenses and counter tactics that were a step ahead of his enemy.If Trench were not out of his depth already, this ability would surely tip the scales. And given that the firepower difference is minute, Nek could turn the tables against the Praetor to his advantage. However boarding parties will pose a significant threat, yet let us not forget that neither the Dark Troopers nor IG-88 are capable of making it to the bridge undetected, if they do, it is highly unlikely that Nek will be there. More likely he would have fled to a back up bridge, or abandoned ship altogether. IG-88 could attempt to seal him in the bridge, but I figure that if Nek turned his attention away from the battle, he could devise a brilliant escape plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 His precognitive powers are believed to be the reason that he was able to consistently beat the Thrawn Simulator, which is definitely no small feat. Boarders are an issue, but the right tactic can flush them out or contain them. Set up ray shields or lock down parts of the ship to contain them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raandomname Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I wasn't aware Nek had precognitive powers, but then I found this on Wookieepedia:A skilled tactician, Bwua'tu had the ability to accurately predict the enemy's projected battle tactics and counter them efficiently. Jedi Master Kyp Durron believed that the Admiral was Force-sensitive, but Bwua'tu simply knew not only how his enemy thought, but how the enemy thought their enemy thought. Such intuition afforded Bwua'tu the ability to formulate effective defenses and counter tactics that were a step ahead of his enemy.If Trench were not out of his depth already, this ability would surely tip the scales. And given that the firepower difference is minute, Nek could turn the tables against the Praetor to his advantage. However boarding parties will pose a significant threat, yet let us not forget that neither the Dark Troopers nor IG-88 are capable of making it to the bridge undetected, if they do, it is highly unlikely that Nek will be there. More likely he would have fled to a back up bridge, or abandoned ship altogether. IG-88 could attempt to seal him in the bridge, but I figure that if Nek turned his attention away from the battle, he could devise a brilliant escape plan. A difference of 1400 to 400-500 is in no way, shape or form miniscule. Also while I agree that Nek>>>Trench, as I mentioned previously, I doubt that Nek will be able to co-ordinate his forces effectivelly when he is being attacked by some of the most lethal droids in galactic history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 A difference of 1400 to 400-500 is in no way, shape or form miniscule. Also while I agree that Nek>>>Trench, as I mentioned previously, I doubt that Nek will be able to co-ordinate his forces effectivelly when he is being attacked by some of the most lethal droids in galactic history. That's what Mace Windu is for. Together they will be able to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raandomname Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 That's what Mace Windu is for. Together they will be able to deal with it. Assuming that Mace is abroard the Imperious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Assuming that Mace is abroard the Imperious. Why wouldn't he be? Commander Cody is already on the ground, so that clears up any chain of command there. Considering the importance of space victory, Windu's Shatterpoint will most likely lead him to believe that he needs to ensure victory. I mean, few factions thus far have won without a space advantage. It is vital, as demonstrated in TCW, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Why wouldn't he be? Commander Cody is already on the ground, so that clears up any chain of command there. Considering the importance of space victory, Windu's Shatterpoint will most likely lead him to believe that he needs to ensure victory. I mean, few factions thus far have won without a space advantage. It is vital, as demonstrated in TCW, actually. Just going to but in again... The IDD has won twice without space Supremacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Just going to but in again... The IDD has won twice without space Supremacy. Hence why I said few. Besides, you have the most OP droids out there, so that's obviously why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) Why wouldn't he be? Commander Cody is already on the ground, so that clears up any chain of command there. Considering the importance of space victory, Windu's Shatterpoint will most likely lead him to believe that he needs to ensure victory. I mean, few factions thus far have won without a space advantage. It is vital, as demonstrated in TCW, actually. He was on the ground from the get-go in my match against Rayla, why exactly would he be in space this time? As far as the RR is aware this isn't that much different if anything it is somewhat easier than the wringer I put Rayla's fleet through. Also considering Jerec and Desann's presence on the ground that is where Mace is going to need to be. If he is on the ships and the fleet gets driven away he can't just magically appear on the ground for the land battle and Jerec + Desaan > Sunrider. Again, makes no sense that Mace is in space Edited April 8, 2015 by StarSquirrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 His precognitive powers are believed to be the reason that he was able to consistently beat the Thrawn Simulator, which is definitely no small feat. Boarders are an issue, but the right tactic can flush them out or contain them. Set up ray shields or lock down parts of the ship to contain them.IG-88 would likely respond by hacking into the computers and reversing the locks... However, if Nek does decide the only option is to abandon ship, she might attempt a self destruct, or to ram the Imperious into the Praetor before he does so, which could be catastrophic for the Republic Resistance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 IG-88 would likely respond by hacking into the computers and reversing the locks... However, if Nek does decide the only option is to abandon ship, she might attempt a self destruct, or to ram the Imperious into the Praetor before he does so, which could be catastrophic for the Republic Resistance... He.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 He....Oops... he looks like a girl tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Oops... he looks like a girl tbh. its the long hair.....and being bothan,,,, racist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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