Thoughtful idea for a jump in class deeps

[Trogusaurus]

As the Sent/Mara community has already expressed, there are many things this class could use just to get it back to a state of competitiveness or even playability when comparing to others. However, I'd like to propose (another) change that might help simplify the overall dps issue our class faces in both WZs and endgame content.

 

What if:

• Landing a crit from a direct melee attack offered a small chance at granting 1 Zen/Berserk stack?
  
• Additionally, the maximum number of Zen/Berserk stacks allowed is increased to 12, but Centering/Fury still only grants 6.
  

 

Watch/Anni receives a nice supplement to its auto-crits whilst granting extra chances to build focus via RNG (a problem the spec currently has). Baseline DPS increase to make up for lost boss/enemy uptime, no extra utility changes required.

 

Combat/Carnage becomes outright nasty and more eclectic as it receives random Zen procs to boost the rotation and GCD. Since its main filler is melee, proc chance is highest when compared to the other two specs, and thus overtakes Concentration/Fury spec in sustained DPS as intended.

 

Fury/Conc sees the smallest benefit from the change, but remains significant to the class's core issues. Though the main rotation is pretty much set in stone, the only change is that the basic Focus builder becomes virtually insignificant even when faced with skipping Zen/Bers for a raid or speed/def buff. This is also a baseline DPS increase.

 

Mind you, the proc chance can be miniscule at best. 5-10% would do it, and maybe even have a refresh timer post-proc, but it just might be enough to get our class viable and scary again. Ofc there are other issues, but this is one that can remedy a number of them with one internal change to the class. I would implore the devs to read this and at least consider a similar implementation should the coding cause too much trouble.

 

Additionally, what does the community think of this? I personally am getting tired of the "devs r dum" threads here and would at least like to offer some sort of potentially helpful feedback (Wishful thinking, I know). Any thoughts/trolls/rebuttals would be appreciated.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Trogusaurus

[JouerTue]

i like it. i don't think it's going to happen.

[Bejarid]

I haven't done much with my Sentinel since returning, so I really don't have any current experience to justify my gut feeling. That said, these may look like good ideas on paper, but I think they'd be ultimately disruptive for Combat and Focus (or whatever it's called now).

 

Bad and random proc timing for Focus could cause the extra resources from Zen to be ultimately wasted, and I'd also be concerned that sporadic changes to the length of globals would likely cause some issues with timing for the rigid cooldown resets for Combat. Previous experience with similar effects in other games have shown me that such things are often quite problematic. Probably would be great for Watchman, though, but I've always hated Watchman and so I'm really unfamiliar with how they might actually be affected.

 

Do applaud your efforts and your civility, though. Hostility towards devs/mods tends to work out horribly for the general health of a game's community.

[Hei_Atzfel]

Marauder DPS is perfectly fine, the issue is staying on target, ESPECIALLY for Annihilation who have to use their gap closer as part of their primary DPS output just to keep their resources flowing, which is exceedingly stupid spec design and always has been. Plus when you consider that, in order to combat kiting with Predation the Marauder has to give up their own DPS from Berserk AND that to make Predation even worth a damn they have to spent a Heroic utility point, it's rather glaring what the issue here is.

[-Yui-]

What if:

• Landing a crit from a direct melee attack offered a small chance at granting 1 Zen/Berserk stack?
  
• Additionally, the maximum number of Zen/Berserk stacks allowed is increased to 12, but Centering/Fury still only grants 6.
  

 

I like this idea; a 15% proc chance would directly correlate to at least a 4.5% damage boost for Carnage, which isn't so bad.

[Trogusaurus]

I certainly agree that target uptime is a real issue for the class. However with the way the current operations mechanics coupled with the mez/rootfest pvp is right now, I feel the best remedy for both would be via dps boost instead of reworking several skills/utilities to make it worthwhile. Though we suffer the same issue in both pvp and pve, the required fixes are very different from one another, and DPS buff hits two birds with one stone. If we're going to be punished for being melee, we might as well give you hell when we finally get to hit you.

 

I would agree Carnage and Combat still don't get their kiting issue addressed fully here, but even a few seconds of uptime with that proc will result in at least one extra global before the inevitable happens. By design this spec just gets ruined in WZs as it is imo, considering kiting coupled with a still-vulnerable Precision/Gore window.

 

As for "too good" RNG for Focus (now Concentration/Rage), I would agree with you there. However even pre 3.0 I was constantly trying to find ways to offload focus back then. With Concentrated Slice/Furious Strike in the rotation, focus management has become trickier. Though I have no real numbers to back it up, I would argue an extra Zen/Bers stack mid rotation would just translate into using Slash one more time than Strike, or popping Trans/Pred instead of Zen/Bers to no real DPS loss (assuming your Crush stacks are up).

Edited March 20, 2015 by Trogusaurus

[JackNader]

I don't think your getting what the real problem is. You're essentially treating symptoms.

 

Marauders do not have DPS issues. They have up time issues which translates into the "symptom" of lowered DPS. Buffing the DPS is problematic because it will cause marauders to parse significantly higher in any instance where they do have proper up time. You will end up creating a situation where raid leaders will start bringing only marauders again because their DPS is head and shoulders above the other classes and of course Bioware will respond by nerfing them back to where they were.

 

Again their issue is up time. Marauders get plenty of up time the moment they start using predation in conjunction with pred root break over berserk. Therefore the problem is in the predation / berserk mechanics themselves. That is, because they are forced to choose one or the other, they end up with the problem of great up time at reduced DPS (predation prioritization ) or poor up time at an even greater DPS loss (Berserk prioritization.)

 

Also as a side note, you do not buff melee classes because of piss poor raid design. The smart thing to do is balance the raid mechanics so that they do not favor range over melee in the first place.

Edited March 20, 2015 by JackNader

[Trogusaurus]

I understand the uptime issue. What I am saying is that buffing dps can be nearly as effective a fix as a whole slew of mobility and defensive changes at a reduced fix-it time, if done right.This change alone will not fully fix the uptime issue, but it helps.

 

Consider ops. It's no secret melee will take far more damage than ranged in nearly every fight, and thus puts heavier strain on healers. Stacking Sents/Maras creates a higher risk/reward environment that still requires balance with other classes. Any good ops team will track damage taken as well as DPS, and melee will always fall short in the former. I see no issue here. As it stands, more melee = less uptime and more heals required. A lose/lose compared to any ranged.

 

As for uptime, yes it is a problem, maybe the problem. In relation to pvp, the majority of a ranged class's defense against us is keeping us at bay, and they are really, really good at that right now. However, the moment a dual wielder closes and escapes are on CD, the outcome is usually clear. A DPS buff further stresses that process, and supplemented with a few defensive/mobility buffs you now have a viable and competitive class. As I said before, this one fix is not an end-all, be-all to our issues.

 

On another note, you say Mara/Sent dps is fine. Then why are all three ranged classes's sustained specs beating Anni and Watch even on the dummy? Check out Torparse, or parse with a friend and see for yourself. We could very much use this.

 

To be fair, I doubt the devs will change the raid design any time soon. They're still working on basic bug fixes :/ But I see your point.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Trogusaurus