Kaggath Battlegrounds - The Finals

[Beniboybling]

"No game of dejarik can be won without pawns..."

 

So with the Semi-Finals since concluded, we are finally down to our last two participants. LadyKulvax with The Republic Resistance, and Silenceo with The Imperial Droid Division, who will battle it out in a final brawl for the Championship title. The final matchup is therefore as follows:

 

Final Round

 

LadyKulvax vs Silenceo

The Republic Resistance vs The Imperial Droid Division

 

The Battleground: Corellia

 

The Arbiter: Beniboybling

 

The Republic Resistance - Green Jedi Enclave

Leadership

 

Head of State: Grand Master Sunrider

Second-in-Command: Mace Windu

Allies: Commander Cody & Nek Bwua’tu

Supplier: Kuat Drive Yards [Kuat]

Organisation: Republic Intelligence [Coruscant]

 

Ground Forces

 

Major Ground Force: Clone Troopers/Third Systems Army [2,304]

Minor Ground Force: Jedi Knights/PT [50]

 

Light Vehicle: Unstable Terrain Artillery Transport (UT-AT) [34]

2nd Light Vehicle: XR-85 Tank Droid/3m [34]

Heavy Vehicle: HAVw A6 Juggernaut [9]

 

Naval Forces

 

Fighter Class: CF9 Crossfire starfighter

Bomber Class: I4 Ionizer starfighter

Elite Class: X-83 TwinTail starfighter

 

Light Capital Ship: Acclamator I-class assault ship [13]

Heavy Capital Ship: Venator-class star destroyer [6]

Flagship: Imperious-class star destroyer

 

Naval Crew: Grand Army of the Republic

The Imperial Droid Division - Incorporation Islands

Leadership

 

Head of State: Inquisitor Jerec

Second-in-Command: Admiral Trench

Allies: Desann & IG-88

Supplier: Commerce Guild [sullust]

Organisation: Inquisitorius [Prakith]

 

Ground Forces

 

Major Ground Force: Phase I Dark Troopers [768]

Minor Ground Force: Phase II Dark Troopers [128]

 

Light Vehicle: Phase III Dark Trooper [21]

2nd Light Vehicle: Persuader-class droid enforcer [43]

Heavy Vehicle: OG-9 homing spider droid [21]

 

Naval Forces

 

Fighter Classes: TIE/D fighter

Bomber Class: GAT-12 Skipray Blastboat

Elite Class: Shadow Droids

 

Light Capital Ship: Tartan-class corvette [24]

Heavy Capital Ship: Vindicator-class heavy cruiser [16]

Flagship: Praetor II-class battlecruiser [Vengeance]

 

Naval Crew: Galactic Empire

As this point no further faction changes can be made, so prepare for the coming battle!

[Silenceo]

This won't work right now Beni.

 

LK I do not believe is subbed atm, and I am starting the "Conquest" game in 2 days, meaning I will have no time.

[Beniboybling]

This won't work right now Beni.

 

LK I do not believe is subbed atm, and I am starting the "Conquest" game in 2 days, meaning I will have no time.

:(

[Silenceo]

:(

 

You saw how last match went, for the most part, it was just the creators of the factions. Perhaps this match will only be the neutrals then, and something for the history books. No creators for the finale. What a rule that would make...

[Selenial]

Well I was planning on debating as if Rayla's faction were my own, to make sure someone could actually fill that role, and her faction is right up my alley, source wise.

 

The conquest thread creates issues however, especially since it looks like it will last a long time.

[tunewalker]

Just at first glance, the Navies seem pretty well matched. The Tartan's are fantastic at evening the Odds from the enemy fighters. They are pretty tough and capable of decimating Wings of fighters at an incredible rate. How ever the Venator's arent exactly push overs with out their compliments, and likely have more then enough firepower to defeat the Vindicator's 1v1 while I also believe the Acclamator's can ALSO match the Vindicator's 1v1.

 

The flagship of both I also feel to be around equal quality all around, I do believe this one may come down to tactics, and Nomi's Battle Meditation would go a long way with that... but this is just the quick first glance.

Edited March 18, 2015 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

I will admit I'll refuse to use battle meditation as an argument.

 

Even now I hold to the fact it's simply not possible. You people use Bastilla as reason why she can, when Bastilla was named the greatest practitioner of battle meditation in history...

 

Nomi can't use it on this scale.

[Silenceo]

Trying to not get drawn in, since I have a few last minute launch preparations to do for "Conquest" but I will say a few brief things:

 

- Battle Meditation is most effective against organics (Only half the effect if against droids basically)

- Praetor II, due to tech equality, is likely stronger than the Imperious class. (It was said to be to the Pellaeon, what the MK II was to the MK I)

- Droids rule.

 

*Scurries out of the thread before a line can be sunk*

[tunewalker]

I will admit I'll refuse to use battle meditation as an argument.

 

Even now I hold to the fact it's simply not possible. You people use Bastilla as reason why she can, when Bastilla was named the greatest practitioner of battle meditation in history...

 

Nomi can't use it on this scale.

 

That's a good point. My real point was even a MINOR tip in the scales could be something. She has the ability and honestly making 5 people have better timing may be enough to tip the scales.

 

Further look at Joruus Caboath. He managed to get 3 ships to have perfect timing to make it look like Lasers passed through a shield, and he isnt noted as being anything special with the ability. no more then Nomi.

Edited March 18, 2015 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

Well I was planning on debating as if Rayla's faction were my own, to make sure someone could actually fill that role, and her faction is right up my alley, source wise.

 

The conquest thread creates issues however, especially since it looks like it will last a long time.

 

I was actually going to argue for her, but I'll leave that to you.

[Selenial]

That's a good point. My real point was even a MINOR tip in the scales could be something. She has the ability and honestly making 5 people have better timing may be enough to tip the scales.

 

Further look at Joruus Caboath. He managed to get 3 ships to have perfect timing to make it look like Lasers passed through a shield, and he isnt noted as being anything special with the ability. no more then Nomi.

 

Perhaps, but she'll be on the planet anyway...

 

And you're right, Caboath does not have more hype than Nomi. Neither of them have particularly great battle meditation hype, it's their feats that place them. She doesn't have a single feat putting her on that level...

[Selenial]

I was actually going to argue for her, but I'll leave that to you.

 

Tag team?

 

Us vs the world

[Aurbere]

Tag team?

 

Us vs the world

 

I do have a peculiar need to seek vengeance...

 

Let's do it!

[Silenceo]

Tag team?

 

Us vs the world

 

We all know who will win since I won't be able to debate for the IDD.

 

[tunewalker]

We all know who will win since I won't be able to debate for the IDD.

 

 

[tunewalker]

Looking closer into it, I do find it difficult for the IDD.

 

We are looking at the Multi Role Destroyer, vs Multi Role Heavy Cruiser. As with most Same Role vs Same Role ship, the one size larger is meant to defeat 2 of the one size smaller.

 

In this case We are looking at 6 Venator's capable of destroying 12 Vindicators.

 

The Acclamator seems to largely be a transport ship, while its armament is not particularly impressive its ARMOR is. For this I feel the need to give a VERY slight edge to the Vindicator's. However this mean that the remaining 4 Vindicators would only be capable of Handling about 5 Acclamator's.

 

 

This leaves 24 Tartans going up against 8 Acclamators. Now the Tartans are listed as large Corvettes, their Large size would add to their toughness. In addition their primary role is Anti-fighter meaning their weapons dont have a particularly strong punch against something like an Acclamator. At the end of the day, this is largely a Heavy Cruiser vs Corvette which 1 Heavy cruiser was often capable of taking on a good 8-16 Corvettes. Even if we assume the smaller, there are still 5 Acclamator left to handle this situation.

 

Finally it comes down to the Flagships. While the Imperious is the "Mark II" of the Palleon, it was a Prototype, only 1 ever being built, as it took much of the fleet to get rid of and was almost to the point of being a "super weapon" so I feel it a step above the Usual "Mark II", but not a huge step up. The Praetor on the other hand, is also a Mark II, but its at a time when Battle Cruisers, and Dreadnaughts were just coming in to their own. This thing would have been very Large and Very powerful For its time. Ultimately I do feel the Praetor takes the edge, but I feel the Edge is small enough that what would "remain" would be about typical destroyer strength vs the remaining 5 Acclamators.

 

Unfortunately that is the problem. While the Acclamator largely a transport ship, it is still a Heavy cruiser so the Typical destroyer would be capable of taking on maybe 3 of them.... this would leave 2 more Acclamators giving the Overall edge to the RR.

 

Of course this is my usual way of doing calculations. While my analysis leaves "2 Acclamators left over" it actually a "strength 2 Acclamator Edge" meaning the number of ships left over would be what ever that strength would allow to domino. As an Edge it makes the remainder of course slightly more then that.

 

This of course ALSO does not take Fighters into account, as of Yet.... That could have a profound difference.... or not. This also does not take tacticians into account each of which could be worth far more then "Strength 2 Acclamator edge"

[tunewalker]

Fighter Vulnerability

 

RR

 

Venator's are perfectly defended against fighters with their numerous Point defense canons, and their main guns ability to change power setting and tracking speeds. How ever, beyond the main guns I still do not believe that Point defense guns are capable of Defending Allied ships, as all "fighter destroyer" Role ships/ ships designed to hunt down and kill fighters/ keep fighters off allies have Laser canons and not Point defense Canons. Suggesting Laser canons potentially greater range, and likely greater power output to keep fighters off allies.

 

Similarly of Course the Acclamator is equally well defended, by the same weapons.

 

The Imperious, on the other hand has no Fighter defense to speak of, and with both the Venator's and the Acclamator's fighter defense designs seem to be around operating either independently or with ships that are perfectly capable of defending themselves. This means the Imperious will lean EXTENSIVELY on the Fighters provided by the Venators and the Acclamators for Defense.

 

 

Overall: good fighter defenses all around, but the Imperious ill need serious protecting by fighter allies to not be taken down by the IDD.

 

IDD

 

Vindicator-class

Another ship similar again to the Acclamator in Fighter defenses. Its turbo's are even "light turbo's" usually meaning slightly better tracking there as well. The better tracking MAY allow it to hunt down some fighters, but this one is again an example of a ship that is meant to operate Largely independently of others. As such while it can defend itslef its not going to be saving any other ship.

 

Tartan-class

These of course are the "bad boys" of fighter defenses. They are tough enough that they can take a decent beating from larger ships and tank fighter lasers pretty easily. To top it off their weapons are specifically designed to decimate enemy fighter wings and to keep them off of Larger ships. Finally they are agile enough to CHASE DOWN these fighters. While I do not usually take game mechanics EaW is a strategy simulator, its not perfect and wont suggest it is, but these ships have a VERY clear and present strength against enemy fighters. I have seen 5 Tartans Decimate over 50 Squads, thats over 600 fighters, simply because of their ability to cover each other and chase down any fleeing squads. With their efficiency, the IDD can keep several in reserve and just use a few providing cover fire at a time and still decimate wing, up wing. As one Tartan is lost, its reinforcement just takes its place and keeps on trucking. They are used for a reason, they decimate fighters much faster then larger ships can decimate them, especially when they are backed up by larger ships.

 

 

The Praetor Mark II Similarly vulnerable to Enemy fighters as the Imperious, it will need assistance if it is going to survive enemy Bombers. It is a large target and has a serious lack of Fighter defensive weaponry. With out help, it will die quick.

 

 

Overall: Its main ship the Vindicators are just fine against Fighters, and while it has the Praetor as vulnerable as the Imperious, the IDD makes up with it with the Tartans. No need for Fighters to remain on defense with the Tartans. Further with just 5 acting as screening for Ally fighters going against capital ships (5 more acting as the 5's back up) they can cut a swath of destruction freeing up Ally fighters to do serious damage. Even putting those on the offense they still have 14 Tartans capable of acting as multiple layers of screening for the powerful Praetor. Their Capital ships are set in a way that minimal amount of fighters are required for defense of their large ship.

 

 

Total Overall: The IDD takes a decisive edge in Fighter defenses, largely freeing up their fighters for not having to stick close to their cruisers, freeing up their Speed and their offensive strength. If the Tartans can cut an opening to the Imperious, it is very possible that the Bombers will cripple the ship and turn things slightly more in the Favor of the IDD.

 

This of course will depend greatly on just how large a Fighter disparity there is.

Edited March 19, 2015 by tunewalker

[raandomname]

So my first 2 thoughts:

1. The RR seems to have a vastly superior tactician.

2. The IDD has a vastly superior flagship.

Will elaborate later ofc.

[Beniboybling]

Woah folks hold your horses, this is just the preamble, like before, the thread proper hasn't started yet.

[Beniboybling]

I will admit I'll refuse to use battle meditation as an argument.

 

Even now I hold to the fact it's simply not possible. You people use Bastilla as reason why she can, when Bastilla was named the greatest practitioner of battle meditation in history...

 

Nomi can't use it on this scale.

She used it in the Battle of Koros Major bro.

[raandomname]

Woah folks hold your horses, this is just the preamble, like before, the thread proper hasn't started yet.

So what do we discuss in this thread?

[Beniboybling]

So what do we discuss in this thread?

Anything aside from detailed discussion, its just to help people prepare really, however doesn't look like we are going to get much participation from the faction makers... so yeah, just hype thread.

 

Get pumped!

[raandomname]

Anything aside from detailed discussion, its just to help people prepare really, however doesn't look like we are going to get much participation from the faction makers... so yeah, just hype thread.

 

Get pumped!

Well, as long as it starts soon.

[Selenial]

She used it in the Battle of Koros Major bro.

 

No, she didn't. Please don't try use arguments I've refuted hundreds of times.

 

She was told to use it in a way to influence the battle, likely attacking an enemy commanders mind as she had done in the past, not on a true fleet scale. She however could not because the battle was decided. They proceeded to suffer a cataclysmic loss.

 

Sick battle meditation brah.

[Beniboybling]

No, she didn't. Please don't try use arguments I've refuted hundreds of times.

 

She was told to use it in a way to influence the battle, likely attacking an enemy commanders mind as she had done in the past, not on a true fleet scale. She however could not because the battle was decided. They proceeded to suffer a cataclysmic loss.

 

Sick battle meditation brah.

That sounds like guess work to me...