Isaacone Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/03/09/star-wars-adds-its-first-official-lgbt-character-to-canon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) And what exactly is the point of this? If you think you are doing some type of "favor" to them and making them happy by doing this you aren't doing anything like that. You are just making Star Wars political now and controversial while making our real life world societal issues now inside a fantasy universe. Our issues aren't supposed to be inside other things like that. I really really love Star Wars and still have hope with the new movies and stuff and have faith in Disney but, I hope Disney doesn't ruin it with putting issues and things we have going on in OUR world in a fantasy setting and making Star Wars politically correct. That's just not right and a little too much. I watch Star Wars to escape all that stuff. Not be reminded of it every single time I watch it! It BETTER not become something more with even more politically correct things. That's the point here. Also... Oh god no. They did NOT just make Mandalorians, the Spartan Warrior Gods of the Star Wars galaxy, gay. Please tell me they didn't just do that! Do they WANT to start a controversy? Edited March 9, 2015 by Sarfux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) And what exactly is the point of this? If you think you are doing some type of "favor" to them and making them happy by doing this you aren't doing anything like that. You are just making Star Wars political now and controversial while making our real life world societal issues now inside a fantasy universe. Our issues aren't supposed to be inside other things like that. I really really love Star Wars and still have hope with the new movies and stuff and have faith in Disney but, I hope Disney doesn't ruin it with putting issues and things we have going on in OUR world in a fantasy setting and making Star Wars politically correct. That's just not right and a little too much. I watch Star Wars to escape all that stuff. Not be reminded of it every single time I watch it! It BETTER not become something more with even more politically correct things. That's the point here. Also... Oh god no. They did NOT just make Mandalorians, the Spartan Warrior Gods of the Star Wars galaxy, gay. Please tell me they didn't just do that! Do they WANT to start a controversy? (A) What, exactly, is the huge political statement you think is wedging itself into SW here? That gay people exist? It's not like they're saying her plotline revolves around her being a lesbian - heck the actual quote from BSR is that she "happens to be a lesbian." Theron and Lana can both pursue same-sex relationships, but it's not like that's the defining attribute of either one's character. And even if Moff Mors' lesbianism does end up being a subplot, so what? For decades the Legends EU used the Empire to explore anti-alien prejudice (a clear stand-in for racism) and straightforward sexism, what's the big deal if homophobia gets thrown into the mix now? (B) If Sci-Fi (or fiction in general) isn't analyzing our social and human conditions, it's not doing its job. © There was one Mandalorian same-sex couple referenced in a couple of books around eight years ago. Heck, homosexuality actually makes these Space Spartans more like the real Spartans - after all, male/male relationships were a formalized part of the Agoge (Spartan military training) and one of their patron gods was Hyacinth, Apollo's male lover. Edited March 9, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaulderBenson Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) This would almost be newsworthy it they weren't trying to make it newsworthy. Almost. Karen Traviss had a gay mandalorian couple in her books. She did it right, she didn't draw attention to it, they were just there as part of the story, and that was years ago. I'm in total agreement with Peter Griffin on this one. Edited March 9, 2015 by CaulderBenson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (A) What, exactly, is the huge political statement you think is wedging itself into SW here? That gay people exist? It's not like they're saying her plotline revolves around her being a lesbian - heck the actual quote from BSR is that she "happens to be a lesbian." Theron and Lana can both pursue same-sex relationships, but it's not like that's the defining attribute of either one's character. And even if Moff Mors' lesbianism does end up being a subplot, so what? For decades the Legends EU used the Empire to explore anti-alien prejudice (a clear stand-in for racism) and straightforward sexism, what's the big deal if homophobia gets thrown into the mix now? (B) If Sci-Fi (or fiction in general) isn't analyzing our social and human conditions, it's not doing its job. © There was one Mandalorian same-sex couple referenced in a couple of books around eight years ago. Heck, homosexuality actually makes these Space Spartans more like the real Spartans - after all, male/male relationships were a formalized part of the Agoge (Spartan military training) and one of their patron gods was Hyacinth, Apollo's male lover. Like I said I don't think it's needed at all. Now, back to criticizing me for my opinions. Like what always happens on these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Like I said I don't think it's needed at all. Now, back to criticizing me for my opinions. Like what always happens on these forums. You mean like you criticized the opinions of the author and editor for including the character? I'm not attacking you personally or calling you names, but I'm also not going to hold back on my own opinions that there is nothing wrong with the author and Disney making this move, and that adding more diverse characters and viewpoints is good for the SW universe. What's the point of posting your opinions on a forum if it's not to engage in a discussion surrounding them? Edited March 9, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrionSol Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Life-style choice is about as interesting as Religious preference to most people Edited March 9, 2015 by OrionSol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) This would almost be newsworthy it they weren't trying to make it newsworthy. Almost. Karen Traviss had a gay mandalorian couple in her books. She did it right, she didn't draw attention to it, they were just there as part of the story, and that was years ago. I'm in total agreement with Peter Griffin on this one. Pretty much this. And to the person asking how it is political they are making it political by announcing in advance in publication. If they would have simply released the book I would have read it. Not batted an eye and then pulled out the popcorn for the inevitable crappola from the right about the "liberal agenda being forced upon Star Wars." However now we get to see it before the book hits the shelves...great. Edited March 9, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fidothegran Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Stop arguing before the mods shut your thread down, as it is considered a political debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Pretty much this. And to the person asking how it is political they are making it political by announcing in advance in publication. If they would have simply released the book I would have read it. Not batted an eye and then pulled out the popcorn for the inevitable crappola from the right about the "liberal agenda being forced upon Star Wars." However when you make a press statement you are...well making a statement. I have no problem with the character, I have a problem with the pre-release announcement. Big Shiny Robot got an advance review copy of the novel, and then the reviewer asked Editor Shelly Shapiro about the character as part of an interview covering the book as a whole (and Heir to the Jedi) for his podcast. I don't see any press release or statement put out by Disney, LucasBooks, Del Rey, or Random House about it; neither the character, nor her sexuality, are mentioned in the official blurb on the book. Shapiro responded to questions asked about the character, then third parties like BSR and IGN then wrote their own articles on it (and since then it looks like author Paul S. Kemp has replied to people giving him crap for it on twitter). Edited March 9, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Don't need political correctness in video games. Including this one. I'm not against it BECAUSE it's lgbt, I couldn't care less what the hell people do with their lives. I'm against it because of the principle about it. It's more politically correct crap getting into everything. Oh well. I've had enough of this discussion anyway. It's all fine and dandy. Whatever, stage exit left. I have checked out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Don't need political correctness in video games. Including this one. I'm not against it BECAUSE it's lgbt, I couldn't care less what the hell people do with their lives. I'm against it because of the principle about it. It's more politically correct crap getting into everything. Oh well. I've had enough of this discussion anyway. It's all fine and dandy. Whatever, stage exit left. I have checked out yet again how is it political correctness? people are gay. it happens. deal with it. honestly depending on how it's done it might be something that barely gets noticed and might even be written off as a typo (how many people, for example on Oricon caught a referance to "his husband" it's there. but it;s so minor I only noticed it after my thrid time doing the story) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midianlord Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Same-sex relationships have yet to be explored in the Star Wars Universe, aside from a couple of subtle references in the games and books. Bioware added the option for a same-sex relationship in Star Wars: The Old Republic, and in the novel "Legacy of the Force" there was an ambiguous reference to a same-sex Mandalorian couple. Goran Beviin and Medrit Vasur (sp?) in LotF were considered "ambiguous"? (Not that the un-ambiguity is a bad thing...Quite the opposite, IMO.) E: Which is worse: Forced PC-ness (which this doesn't seem to be at all, from what I can see), or people shouting constantly about mis-perceived forced PC-ness? Edited March 9, 2015 by midianlord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenraelWolfmien Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Don't need political correctness in video games. Including this one. I'm not against it BECAUSE it's lgbt, I couldn't care less what the hell people do with their lives. I'm against it because of the principle about it. It's more politically correct crap getting into everything. Oh well. I've had enough of this discussion anyway. It's all fine and dandy. Whatever, stage exit left. I have checked out If you couldn't care less then you wouldn't be against the principle of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) Big Shiny Robot got an advance review copy of the novel, and then the reviewer asked Editor Shelly Shapiro about the character as part of an interview covering the book as a whole (and Heir to the Jedi) for his podcast. I don't see any press release or statement put out by Disney, LucasBooks, Del Rey, or Random House about it; neither the character, nor her sexuality, are mentioned in the official blurb on the book. Shapiro responded to questions asked about the character, then third parties like BSR and IGN then wrote their own articles on it (and since then it looks like author Paul S. Kemp has replied to people giving him crap for it on twitter). Actually not quite true in the interview the editor of the Star Wars books at Del Ray talks about the character specifically. My issue with it is this. If you want things to be accepted as normal, and I believe the LBGT lifestyle should be seen s such, you have to treat it as normal yourself. You have to not bat an eye. Just put it in and then move on. When you say things like... If there's any message at all, it's simply that "Star Wars" is as diverse (or more so because they have alien species) as humanity is in real life and we don't want to pretend it's not. It just felt perfectly natural." Thing is there shouldn't be any "message". If it is a new character it should not require "approval" (and yes they did ask for approval from Disney on this issue). The more you try to send a message the more you invite an "us v them" conflict in the culture wars. Where that war should be fought is in the court room, the floors of the legislature. If you just write a good story, leave it at that...waving a flag (so to speak) simply lights a signal fire that then asks for your opponents to show up to do battle (as some of the responses in this thread illustrates.) Edited March 10, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Actually not quite true in the interview the editor of the Star Wars books at Del Ray talks about the character specifically. My issue with it is this. If you want things to be accepted as normal, and I believe the LBGT lifestyle should be seen s such, you have to treat it as normal yourself. You have to not bat an eye. Just put it in and then move on. When you say things like... Thing is there shouldn't be any "message". If it is a new character it should not require "approval" (and yes they did ask for approval from Disney on this issue). The more you try to send a message the more you invite an "us v them" conflict in the culture wars. Where that war should be fought is in the court room, the floors of the legislature. If you just write a good story, leave it at that...waving a flag (so to speak) simply lights a signal fire that then asks for your opponents to show up to do battle (as some of the responses in this thread illustrates.) I agree. I'm no fan of the woman but Karen Traviss handled it perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrinVlado Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) Don't need political correctness in video games. Including this one. I'm not against it BECAUSE it's lgbt, I couldn't care less what the hell people do with their lives. I'm against it because of the principle about it. It's more politically correct crap getting into everything. Oh well. I've had enough of this discussion anyway. It's all fine and dandy. Whatever, stage exit left. I have checked out I'm with you dude, PC is annoying as heck. And with that I'll just leave this here concerning this thread title... Edited March 11, 2015 by OrinVlado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) Actually not quite true in the interview the editor of the Star Wars books at Del Ray talks about the character specifically. My issue with it is this. If you want things to be accepted as normal, and I believe the LBGT lifestyle should be seen s such, you have to treat it as normal yourself. You have to not bat an eye. Just put it in and then move on. When you say things like... Thing is there shouldn't be any "message". If it is a new character it should not require "approval" (and yes they did ask for approval from Disney on this issue). The more you try to send a message the more you invite an "us v them" conflict in the culture wars. Where that war should be fought is in the court room, the floors of the legislature. If you just write a good story, leave it at that...waving a flag (so to speak) simply lights a signal fire that then asks for your opponents to show up to do battle (as some of the responses in this thread illustrates.) I agree. I'm no fan of the woman but Karen Traviss handled it perfect Here is a link to the podcast hosted by the author of the article, Bryan Young, talking about his experience: Full of Sith Episode 105. The first approx. 20 minutes, 45 seconds of the podcast go into the writing of the article, Del Rey and Paul S. Kemp's take on the topic, and the responses Young has seen over the past few days - straight from the proverbial horse's mouth. If you don't care to devote 20 minutes to the issue, the roughly five-minute stretch from 00:01:05 to 00:06:00 touches on a lot of the points you've raised, where Young makes it clear that he approached Kemp and Del Rey about the topic and that the quotes he used were responses to him interviewing them for the article, and that both saw it as no big deal that they were including the character. Particularly: 00:02:00 - Bryan Young, author of the article: "I talked to Paul Kemp, who's the writer of Lords of the Sith, about [writing an article about there being an LGBT character in the book], and he was kind of surprised that we'd want to do anything. He said, like, 'I'm not trying to make a statement, I wasn't necessarily trying to be inclusive or politically correct, or trying to create something like that - I just imagined this character, she was a lesbian in my head, that character was most interesting to me in that way, and that's the way I wrote her.'" 00:05:00 - Amy Ratcliffe, cohost of the podcat: "And, the other part that strikes me is that to Paul Kemp it wasn't a big deal, he was writing a character, and this is just the way the character was, and that's a natural part of the story. And that's how it should be, not like 'well, we are going to make an LGBT character' - no, I think that's fantastic, and that, for me, that's a good sign about how they're handling it going forward. It's just going to happen, it's just part of the universe." Bryan Young: "And that's what Shelly [shapiro] said, too. I mean, Shelly -you heard her**- she said that they weren't trying to make a statement, it's just that we want to be reflective of reality, and there are gay people, there are lesbians out there, and we're not going to shy away from letting any of those varying minorities- we're not going to shy away from them being represented." **The quote from Shapiro was a bit earlier after Young mentions (specifically at 00:01:50) that he "talked to Del Rey about writing an article" about the LGBT character: 00:02:28 - Bryan Young: "I talked to Shelly Shapiro, and we've got Shelly Shapiro's quote about it - and we can listen to that:" Previously recorded clip of Shelly Shapiro, Star Wars Editor at Del Rey: "Well, in Canon, yeah. We had, in the Imperial Commando book I believe -if I remember correctly- there were some gay characters, I think there was a gay couple, a Mandalorian couple, so it's not brand new... but, really, it just... it's not really something I think about. It just makes sense - I mean there's a lot of diversity, or should be diversity in Star Wars; you have all these different species and it would be sort of silly to not also recognize that there's a lot of diversity in just humans." Edited March 11, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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