Sorcs deserve equal treatment, not hate

[Capt_Beers]

Yea I remember that insanity:) I raged a lot when I had to use 20 buttons on my gunslinger, and mercs facerolled everything with 1. Especially when I had no CD's available and they actually could kill me with only 1 button WITH THAT OLD SOUND. Anyways, tracer missile is a single target so it wasn't completely broken.

 

It wasn't broken at all. People couldn't figure out what an interrupt was.

[skarlson]

When I enter regs and see squadrons of sorcs topping damage by spaming 1 ability I think they need a little fix.

Let me start by stating yes I main a sorc. I am not commenting either way on whether to nerf FS. I merely wish to point out how fallacious this argument is. You do not see sorcs topping the damage charts by only using FS. In fact there is a recent video tutorial floating around where someone humorously put just FS on every quickbar slot but one for bubble. They did nothing but FS for 15m and and were 3-400k behind a couple others, at least one a sorc, using their actual ability rotation.

 

If you want to nerf FS it shall not be for the absolutely dumb argument of you can top the damage charts using just that ability. Such a statement is patently false and I highly doubt the poster quote has even tested this. He is just pulling a random "fact" from his backside then drawing a conclusion from it. As with most backside comments it takes longer to address it with actual facts and/or logic than it does to spout the original nonsense.

Edited January 24, 2015 by skarlson

[Lhancelot]

Let me start by stating yes I main a sorc. I am not commenting either way on whether to nerf FS. I merely wish to point out how fallacious this argument is. You do not see sorcs topping the damage charts by only using FS. In fact there is a recent video tutorial floating around where someone humorously put just FS on every quickbar slot but one for bubble. They did nothing but FS for 15m and and were 3-400k behind a couple others, at least one a sorc, using their actual ability rotation.

 

If you want to nerf FS it shall not be for the absolutely dumb argument of you can top the damage charts using just that ability. Such a statement is patently false and I highly doubt the poster quote has even tested this. He is just pulling a random "fact" from his backside then drawing a conclusion from it. As with most backside comments it takes longer to address it with actual facts and/or logic than it does to spout the original nonsense.

 

I mentioned this a few times, actually. A sorc who just spams FS is a bad sorc. You speak logically. On a side note, that's pretty funny putting FS on all the bars with bubble.

[ToMyMa]

It wasn't broken at all. People couldn't figure out what an interrupt was.

 

Yup, people cried all over the forums, and with 1.2 mando had its nerf.

 

... but we only got OUR interrupt a lot later

[Yezzan]

Sorcerers are OP?

 

So why are they using LOS, Force Barrier and force speed? it simple means that you are winning (or were).

 

Static barrier has a Lockout (for those who didn't know). You cannot apply it infinitely to yourself, you have to wait until the lockout buff disappears.

 

Forcestorm is doing the damage that it is supposed to do. Any nerf and they can just delete the ability altogether. Give it a CD? I can work with that.

 

Am I rolling a sorc? I have one but I do better on my guardian in PvP.

[ToMyMa]

Sorcerers are OP?

 

So why are they using LOS, Force Barrier and force speed? it simple means that you are winning (or were).

 

Static barrier has a Lockout (for those who didn't know). You cannot apply it infinitely to yourself, you have to wait until the lockout buff disappears.

 

Forcestorm is doing the damage that it is supposed to do. Any nerf and they can just delete the ability altogether. Give it a CD? I can work with that.

 

Am I rolling a sorc? I have one but I do better on my guardian in PvP.

 

Hey, hey, you there.

 

Do you know of the two white damage AoEs with no cooldowns that commando and gunslingers have? Yeah, neither do I, since THEY'RE SO BAD. And with that logic, FS should be bad too, since it has no cooldown.

[Yezzan]

Hey, hey, you there.

 

Do you know of the two white damage AoEs with no cooldowns that commando and gunslingers have? Yeah, neither do I, since THEY'RE SO BAD. And with that logic, FS should be bad too, since it has no cooldown.

 

Wait you mean commandos that wear heavy armor and perhaps is the better AC for healers?

[ToMyMa]

Wait you mean commandos that wear heavy armor and perhaps is the better AC for healers?

 

The ignorance is strong with this one.

 

Heavy armor only affect white attacks, and a lot of those attacks have armor pen, thus negating the heavy armor.

BUT! You might want to research a little, because sorcs have inherently higher defense chance.

 

And you're clueless if you call commando healer better than sorc healers... so stop throwing bad apologies around and accept it - sorcs are bloody OP at the moment, only trumped by assassins and arguably powertechs.

[Master-Nala]

The ignorance is strong with this one.

 

Heavy armor only affect white attacks, and a lot of those attacks have armor pen, thus negating the heavy armor.

BUT! You might want to research a little, because sorcs have inherently higher defense chance.

 

And you're clueless if you call commando healer better than sorc healers... so stop throwing bad apologies around and accept it - sorcs are bloody OP at the moment, only trumped by assassins and arguably powertechs.

 

Armor mitigates everything but elemental and internal. Most tech/force attacks use kinetic or energy damage which is mitigated by armor.

 

By the way you don't need to take my word for it, this is easily verifiable by looking at your character sheet.

 

Hey, hey, you there.

 

Do you know of the two white damage AoEs with no cooldowns that commando and gunslingers have? Yeah, neither do I, since THEY'RE SO BAD. And with that logic, FS should be bad too, since it has no cooldown.

 

Suppresive Fire is not bad at all. Neither is Sweeping Blaster when used by the spec that gets the +crit/surge buff. Since I happen to play those two specs, I can say from experience that those abilities are quite viable today.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Master-Nala

[DarkSaberMaster]

Give Orbital Strike back it's damage and I will shut up about it. I have no problem with Force Storm, personally. I just want equal treatment for my Sniper/GS. Buff OS or nerf FS. Either way suits me fine, but I prefer the buff.

[DerSchneider]

Let me start by stating yes I main a sorc. I am not commenting either way on whether to nerf FS. I merely wish to point out how fallacious this argument is. You do not see sorcs topping the damage charts by only using FS. In fact there is a recent video tutorial floating around where someone humorously put just FS on every quickbar slot but one for bubble. They did nothing but FS for 15m and and were 3-400k behind a couple others, at least one a sorc, using their actual ability rotation.

 

If you want to nerf FS it shall not be for the absolutely dumb argument of you can top the damage charts using just that ability. Such a statement is patently false and I highly doubt the poster quote has even tested this. He is just pulling a random "fact" from his backside then drawing a conclusion from it. As with most backside comments it takes longer to address it with actual facts and/or logic than it does to spout the original nonsense.

 

Yes i have a sorc and I tested this. Of course if you main a sorc you will claim that they aren't op. Same do I as a jugger. The only problem that I have only 1 overpowered skill, sorcs have multiple.

Edited January 24, 2015 by DerSchneider

[AlrikFassbauer]

I never noticed that...

 

I guess the prejudice is real.

 

Because everyone is playing imp side. That's why no-one realizes that Sages have a "silent mirror".

[ToMyMa]

Armor mitigates everything but elemental and internal. Most tech/force attacks use kinetic or energy damage which is mitigated by armor.

 

By the way you don't need to take my word for it, this is easily verifiable by looking at your character sheet.

 

 

 

Suppresive Fire is not bad at all. Neither is Sweeping Blaster when used by the spec that gets the +crit/surge buff. Since I happen to play those two specs, I can say from experience that those abilities are quite viable today.

 

I stand corrected in regards to armor, then.

 

However, FS can more or less be spammed - SF and SB cannot.

[Master-Nala]

However, FS can more or less be spammed - SF and SB cannot.

 

Arsenal can most certainly spam Sweeping Blaster. Remember they get very good heat dissipation. Now like a Sorc spamming Force Storm, it's inefficient and poor strategy, but it can be done.

[Master-Nala]

Yes i have a sorc and I tested this. Of course if you main a sorc you will claim that they aren't op. Same do I as a jugger. The only problem that I have only 1 overpowered skill, sorcs have multiple.

 

What would those multiple overpowered abilities be? Please remember overpowered doesn't mean "I don't know how to deal with them."

[Lhancelot]

I stand corrected in regards to armor, then.

 

However, FS can more or less be spammed - SF and SB cannot.

 

Dang. Master-Nala pwned you bruh. rofl, best come in here with your facts straight or Master-Nala will come in with the beat stick and touch you up real good yo. Good thing you tuned down your tone don't want to see you get hurt again!

[DerSchneider]

What would those multiple overpowered abilities be? Please remember overpowered doesn't mean "I don't know how to deal with them."

 

Bubbleheal, force storm, insane combinations of utilities (egress, pushback root, bubblestun) seem pretty enough. Btw I can take down 80% of sorcs, but just because the majority of them are baddies. Or maybe because I play a nice counter sorc discipline. Carnage marauders or concealment ops won't be so happy.

[skarlson]

Yes i have a sorc and I tested this. Of course if you main a sorc you will claim that they aren't op. Same do I as a jugger. The only problem that I have only 1 overpowered skill, sorcs have multiple.

 

You will note I never commented on whether sorcs or fs is overpowered. I only commented that your particular example is foolishness and simply not true so find another reason that is valid. You obviously didn't listen.

[skarlson]

Bubbleheal, force storm, insane combinations of utilities (egress, pushback root, bubblestun) seem pretty enough. Btw I can take down 80% of sorcs, but just because the majority of them are baddies. Or maybe because I play a nice counter sorc discipline. Carnage marauders or concealment ops won't be so happy.

 

If you take egress, root and bubblestun you cannot get corrupted bubble as it leaves you just 1 point. Either that or you give up force mobility. Sorcs also take more damage than others having the fewest ways to mitigate it. They have to heal 2 full instead or avoid damage through properly timed skill usage. Bubblestun is a mez btw which means it breaks on damage including the affliction you likely will have on you the next tick.

 

Without the root on sorc KB the KB itself is completely useless, it's the only KB that has no secondary effect to prevent the target from running right back into your face instantly, is the only non-360 kb and also has the shortest KB range as far as I am aware.

 

I think you're rear is sore or something.

Edited January 24, 2015 by skarlson

[ToMyMa]

Arsenal can most certainly spam Sweeping Blaster. Remember they get very good heat dissipation. Now like a Sorc spamming Force Storm, it's inefficient and poor strategy, but it can be done.

 

Yeah... no. Try to spam and see how many you can get off until you're out of ammo. Now go ahead and do the same with FS.

[Lhancelot]

Yeah... no. Try to spam and see how many you can get off until you're out of ammo. Now go ahead and do the same with FS.

 

Only a bad sorc would stand and spam FS over, and over, and over.... This is why this ability will not get nerfed. It's not OP'd. It's situational. When the situation is a bunch of idiots standing bunched up together, allowing a sorc to freecast FS over and over and over, they they deserve to take all of that channeled AE damage. Which does look great when parsed because it can hit 8 targets!

 

For burst, for killing, and for impacting a pvp match a sorc will be doing much more than standing there using force storm. FS is useful to stop node caps, bomb plants, and for sustained damage over a large group of players too stupid to realize they are in a FS and should probably move or focus that sorc.

 

When I fight sorcs/sages, I really do not cry about their FS/FQ, I cry about the fact they move around and can do some decent burst on the move now using LOS to hide from me. That's a good sorc. Not a sorc that just casts FS over and over. If a sorc/sage spams this one ability doing nothing else, you ought to be glad.

[Master-Nala]

Yeah... no. Try to spam and see how many you can get off until you're out of ammo. Now go ahead and do the same with FS.

 

You can use it 10 times (30 seconds); it fails during the 11th cast. So about 31-32 seconds.

 

My TK Sage can use Forcequake 8 times and it fails on the first tick of the 9th cast. So about 49 seconds.

 

That's just casting the power over and over. If you're using this in an actual combat environment, you will have time to regen, can use your energy cooldowns, etc. But both powers are resource negative. Neither can be used indefinitely, but both can be spammed. Because if you don't think that 10 casts in a row is spamming it, then I don't know what to tell you.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Master-Nala

[Capt_Beers]

You can use it 10 times (30 seconds); it fails during the 11th cast. So about 31-32 seconds.

 

My TK Sage can use Forcequake 8 times and it fails on the first tick of the 9th cast. So about 49 seconds.

 

That's just casting the power over and over. If you're using this in an actual combat environment, you will have time to regen, can use your energy cooldowns, etc. But both powers are resource negative. Neither can be used indefinitely, but both can be spammed. Because if you don't think that 10 casts in a row is spamming it, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

What was the damage difference?

[Master-Nala]

What was the damage difference?

 

The Arsenal Merc did better, but that's irrelevant because she's 60 and the Sage was 55. I chose not to do it on my Balance Sage because she doesn't get the damage boost or the resource management tools that the TK Sage does and I didn't want cries of bias.

 

But in any event, the proposition I was attempting to show is that both powers are spammable. Which they are. ForceStorm/Quake has more perks to it, but only does a bit more damage than Sweeping Blasters over time.

 

I don't deny that Mercs/Commandos need SOME help, but it's really getting old when people suggest that every single advantage goes the way of the Sorc/Sage. It's not true, and people need to be sensible when they suggest buffs/nerfs.

[ToMyMa]

Nala and Lhancelot, just for reference, I never stated it should be nerfed