tunewalker Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Revan > Jaina in my opinion, and considering he experienced a moment of oneness I'd say he was giving it his all. If its a moment of oneness its automatically stronger then any candidate here. Because oneness implies that he is one with the Force itself. And the Force itself is stronger then any candidate. Which means any limit to any feat there would be self inflicted rather then a pushing of limits thing. (basically during a moment of oneness if they didnt, its because they didnt really want to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 If its a moment of oneness its automatically stronger then any candidate here. Because oneness implies that he is one with the Force itself. And the Force itself is stronger then any candidate. Which means any limit to any feat there would be self inflicted rather then a pushing of limits thing. (basically during a moment of oneness if they didnt, its because they didnt really want to).Yeah it was brief, and not when the Sith Emperor slapped him down with lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 well considering I dont think Midi chlorian manipulation is a Control feat (I find it more alter) yes, I would argue everything he did Caedus did just as well if not better. at least looking at the side by side. (also dont consider putting people to sleep control either I consider it Alter) I would think Saba and Luke have better senses then some of the masters of the Pre-quel era considering how powerful Luke is and Saba's own accolades with Senses. So I would consider Caedus's Cloak feat better then Plageus's. Their Force Valor is similar, but again if I really had to pick I would lean towards Caedus. Also an important question I feel, and some what off topic for control... How did Plageus manipulate midichlorians? what did he do to achieve it. I have yet to find a classification for midi-chlorian manipulation in the three spheres, so I trust Beni's placement of it. I agree that Caedus has superior cloaking feats, and I never doubted it. It is close however as he was able to deceive the powerful senses of powerful Jedi Masters while conversing with them and operate on Coruscant, effectively evading even Yoda's powerful senses. However, his Force Valor and endurance feats are far ahead of Caedus'. Plagueis' throat was slashed, two of his hearts had stopped, he suffered massive blood loss, and suffered multiple stab wounds all over his body. Despite that he was able to summon superior strength to even Darth Vader, strength that Caedus has not matched. That is a superior display of Force Valor to being stabbed in the stomach. Even Mace Windu has tanked those blows before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I have yet to find a classification for midi-chlorian manipulation in the three spheres, so I trust Beni's placement of it. I agree that Caedus has superior cloaking feats, and I never doubted it. It is close however as he was able to deceive the powerful senses of powerful Jedi Masters while conversing with them and operate on Coruscant, effectively evading even Yoda's powerful senses. However, his Force Valor and endurance feats are far ahead of Caedus'. Plagueis' throat was slashed, two of his hearts had stopped, he suffered massive blood loss, and suffered multiple stab wounds all over his body. Despite that he was able to summon superior strength to even Darth Vader, strength that Caedus has not matched. That is a superior display of Force Valor to being stabbed in the stomach. Even Mace Windu has tanked those blows before. Dont know about the "superior strength to Vader" or "Strength Caedus has not matched", and to be clear it was stabbed in the stomach AND missing an arm, I am still shaky on that conclusion but I understand your reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Dont know about the "superior strength to Vader" or "Strength Caedus has not matched", and to be clear it was stabbed in the stomach AND missing an arm, I am still shaky on that conclusion but I understand your reasoning. Caedus had lost the arm in a previous contest, I believe. I don't think both of those wounds were taken during the final duel. Unlike Plagueis who was literally dying during the Maladian attack. And he does have equal if not superior strength to Vader. I don't think Vader's rammed his fist through people's bodies or smashed their skulls with his bare hands. And I'm not sure Caedus has replicated any of those strength feats. Edited January 20, 2015 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Caedus had lost the arm in a previous contest, I believe. I don't think both of those wounds were taken during the final duel. Unlike Plagueis who was literally dying during the Maladian attack. And he does have equal if not superior strength to Vader. I don't think Vader's rammed his fist through people's bodies or smashed their skulls with his bare hands. And I'm not sure Caedus has replicated any of those strength feats. I am pretty sure Vader has done GREATER Strength feats then that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I am pretty sure Vader has done GREATER Strength feats then that. I'm afraid I'll need proof. Also proof that Caedus has similar strength feats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Caedus had lost the arm in a previous contest, I believe. I don't think both of those wounds were taken during the final duel. Unlike Plagueis who was literally dying during the Maladian attack. And he does have equal if not superior strength to Vader. I don't think Vader's rammed his fist through people's bodies or smashed their skulls with his bare hands. And I'm not sure Caedus has replicated any of those strength feats. No, but I see no reason why he couldn't. He's said to have been able to break people's wrists just by them trying to parry his blade. That being said, no I don't think Vader is stronger than Plagueis but I have no doubt he has the strength to crush someone's skull. He can effortlessly, with his raw strength, lift people off the ground by the neck with one hand and even toss them. If he wanted to and used his force to further amplify his strength? It's frightening what he might be able to do physically. Edited January 20, 2015 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'm afraid I'll need proof. Also proof that Caedus has similar strength feats. If I recall Vader has Dented Durasteel before, didnt say anything about Caedus dont know enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 No, but I see no reason why he couldn't. He's said to have been able to break people's wrists just by them trying to parry his blade. That being said, no I don't think Vader is stronger than Plagueis but I have no doubt he has the strength to crush someone's skull. He can effortlessly, with his raw strength, lift people off the ground by the neck with one hand and even toss them. If he wanted to and used his force to further amplify his strength? It's frightening what he might be able to do physically. Yeah, Vader probably could crush skulls using his cybernetic strength. After all, Grievous could. Just saying that he hasn't to my recollection. But cybernetic strength is different from Force-enhanced strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Yeah, Vader probably could crush skulls using his cybernetic strength. After all, Grievous could. Just saying that he hasn't to my recollection. But cybernetic strength is different from Force-enhanced strength. And Muun Strength is different from Human Strength. Edited January 20, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 And Muun Strength is different from Human Strength. They look pretty weak to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Yeah, Vader probably could crush skulls using his cybernetic strength. After all, Grievous could. Just saying that he hasn't to my recollection. But cybernetic strength is different from Force-enhanced strength. I would argue it's still strength that he has at his disposal that could further be enhanced by the force, even if he is mostly machine, but that is me playing devil's advocate. I feel this part of the debate is rather useless because it still doesn't put Vader higher than Plagueis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I would argue it's still strength that he has at his disposal that could further be enhanced by the force, even if he is mostly machine, but that is me playing devil's advocate. I feel this part of the debate is rather useless because it still doesn't put Vader higher than Plagueis. Yeah, you're right. I was just making a comparison between Caedus and someone Plagueis has similar strength to in order to show that Caedus is not as strong as Plagueis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) They look pretty weak to me. They average a bit taller, which would average a bit stronger. Their 3 hearts which allowed them to CONCIOUSLY increase blood flow would allow them to also Consioucly control Adrenalin. Which does help push strength higher. As far as I have known, Muun have always been physically stronger then humans... at least to a degree. Again I dont know enough of Caedus to argue is strength so some one else will have to do that, but as far as "cloaking" I would call Caedus the winner. "Pain ignoring" Plaegus seems to be ahead. "control of overall body" well when not including his Muun Nature and just including FORCE control... I am leaning Caedus. Edited January 20, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 On the other hand the Sith Emperor's ability to one shot the Dark Council (on two occasions) might tip the scales. I am unsure, the input of others would be valuable here. That and his dominate mind is testament to his raw power. I think he is better at Alter than Plagueis. But overall I'd put Plagueis at #4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Why do people act like Plagueis is more impressive then say... Vader? Aurbere's hype is so baseless. *shakes head* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 They average a bit taller, which would average a bit stronger. Their 3 hearts which allowed them to CONCIOUSLY increase blood flow would allow them to also Consioucly control Adrenalin. Which does help push strength higher. As far as I have known, Muun have always been physically stronger then humans... at least to a degree. Again I dont know enough of Caedus to argue is strength so some one else will have to do that, but as far as "cloaking" I would call Caedus the winner. "Pain ignoring" Plaegus seems to be ahead. "control of overall body" well when not including his Muun Nature and just including FORCE control... I am leaning Caedus. What do you mean by Force control of the body? Isn't that just Force Valor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 What do you mean by Force control of the body? Isn't that just Force Valor? No according to the control pages, Caedus was capable of controlling individual organs within his own body. Which obviously very much not Human thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Anyone up for a Vader vs Plagueis debate tomorrow night? BTW, Beni gave false info over Plagueis' feat, lame. Edited January 20, 2015 by MarcheseAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 No according to the control pages, Caedus was capable of controlling individual organs within his own body. Which obviously very much not Human thing to do. Impressive. Plagueis' Force Valor is still vastly superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Impressive. Plagueis' Force Valor is still vastly superior. Maybe. Caedus's cloak is superior : For sure.....I like to deal in the For sure :p .......Maybe...... DaNG IT.... Ok so real list right now seems to me Control: Plaegus/ Caedus???? Sense: Caedus Alter: Plaegus/ Vitiate??? Talzin????? Still so rough to call....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) A decent feat, but not exceptional, Plagueis in a weakened condition atomised scores of assassins with a wave of his hand in rapid succession This one. ^ Beni, if you give false information again I will email the head Dev to make sure you either apply to the rules or get banned, I hate people saying false information to persuade readers who are uneducated on lore. Sorry. "He stopped once to conjure a Force wave that all but atomized the bodies of six Maladians. " --Star Wars: Darth Plagueis Scores? No, six Maladians. Atomised? No, the text specifically states he didn't atomize them, saying "all BUT." Edited January 20, 2015 by MarcheseAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Maybe. Caedus's cloak is superior : For sure.....I like to deal in the For sure :p .......Maybe...... DaNG IT.... Ok so real list right now seems to me Control: Plaegus/ Caedus???? Sense: Caedus Alter: Plaegus/ Vitiate??? Talzin????? Still so rough to call....... Maybe? Dangnabit, man, I can't keep repeating myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Vader > Plagueis in Alter, broski. Way better TK feats. Edited January 20, 2015 by MarcheseAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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