Selenial Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 As long as you understand how nexus' and midichlorians work. That being said, I'm unsure on Talzin vs Plagueis, though I don't put either above Revan and Caedus. To be honest, I put other characters above the two as well. Talzin's showings are all over the place to being able to challenge Sidious and Mace to getting *****ed by Grievous alone. She got ****ed to Grevious after performing a ritual that is described as "exhaustive" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 IDK, for me Talzin has too many feats that are either amped, or in spirit form or sorcery* for her to make #4. *I do not have the quote on hand, but didn't Sidious, or was it Exar Kun?... say something along the lines of Sith Sorcery making up where one is weak, and bolstering their strength far beyond their normal levels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 As long as you understand how nexus' and midichlorians work. That being said, I'm unsure on Talzin vs Plagueis, though I don't put either above Revan and Caedus. To be honest, I put other characters above the two as well. Talzin's showings are all over the place to being able to challenge Sidious and Mace to getting *****ed by Grievous alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) IDK, for me Talzin has too many feats that are either amped, or in spirit form or sorcery* for her to make #4. * Kind of, that quote gets paraphrased a lot. But no, almost the entire comparison was non-sorcery. Not to mention, you can say she needs a nexus for her abilities, but when she manages to Tutaminis lightning from Sidious and Dooku simultaneously and still last longer than Yoda did against Sidious alone, she's pretty BAMFy. But I agree, she is not #4. Edited January 20, 2015 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Exar Kun, Darth Bane, Darth Krayt, Anakin Skywalker, Starkiller, Hero of Tython, Mace Windu should be above them. Edited January 20, 2015 by MarcheseAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Exar Kun, Darth Bane, Darth Krayt, Anakin Skywalker, Starkiller, Hero of Tython, and Mace Windu should be above them. I need a better laugh emote on these forums tbh. For this I guess I'll have to use: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I need a better laugh emote on these forums tbh. For this I guess I'll have to use: Sidious directly says Talzin is far more powerful on Dathomir then anywhere else. :\ Doing magic on a world specifically designed and corrupted over the ages for such sorcery to take place doesn't impress me, sorry mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Kind of, that quote gets paraphrased a lot. But no, almost the entire comparison was non-sorcery. Not to mention, you can say she needs a nexus for her abilities, but when she manages to Tutaminis lightning from Sidious and Dooku simultaneously and still last longer than Yoda did against Sidious alone, she's pretty BAMFy. But I agree, she is not #4. Probably not. But Plagueis is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Aurbere still waiting on the put side by side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Aurbere still waiting on the put side by side. I think I'll let Beni do it to allow some internal consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 inb4 Fay and Depa > Talzin and Plagueis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 inb4 Fay and Depa > Talzin and Plagueis. Still trolling? I gave you your last warning a while ago. Would you like to retract your comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) It wasn't trolling, it was speculation on how Beni was going to present the information. It is certainly possible that Fay and Depa will be included in the list, especially based on how Fay is in the last one. If you harass me again over circumstances of me just giving my opinion in a non-insulting way, I will personally email every BioWare Dev my story. Edited January 20, 2015 by MarcheseAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Probably not. But Plagueis is! I'm torn between the Sith Emperor and Plagueis atm ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 It wasn't trolling, it was speculation on how Beni was going to present the information. It is certainly possible that Fay and Depa will be included in the list, especially based on how Fay is in the last one. If you harass me again over circumstances of me just giving my opinion in a non-insulting way, I will personally email every BioWare Dev my story. You're attempting to humiliate and embarrass him. That's against the rules of conduct. Harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything to another player that is unwanted. Under forum guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 You're attempting to humiliate and embarrass him. That's against the rules of conduct. Harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything to another player that is unwanted. Under forum guidelines. False. I have changed my views on Fay and certainly think it is possible she is more powerful then the likes of Talzin or Plagueis based on the hype she got for Kenobi. Harassing me over my opinion is, as you showed, against the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I think I'll let Beni do it to allow some internal consistency. Until then: SE/Caedus: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7963628&postcount=224 Plagueis: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7966672&postcount=530 Talzin: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7966689&postcount=532 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 False. I have changed my views on Fay and certainly think it is possible she is more powerful then the likes of Talzin or Plagueis based on the hype she got for Kenobi. Harassing me over my opinion is, as you showed, against the rules. Sure. Explain Depa then. You know what? Don't bother. I don't care anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Kind of, that quote gets paraphrased a lot. But no, almost the entire comparison was non-sorcery. Not to mention, you can say she needs a nexus for her abilities, but when she manages to Tutaminis lightning from Sidious and Dooku simultaneously and still last longer than Yoda did against Sidious alone, she's pretty BAMFy. But I agree, she is not #4. Yeah I wasn't really discrediting her just don't think she is #4 material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Yeah I wasn't really discrediting her just don't think she is #4 material. Probably not. But she is a solid candidate. Best to reveal her awesomeness when it counts to get her the respect she deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 You know what? Don't bother. I don't care anymore. Awh, it's okay. *pats head* ^-^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'm torn between the Sith Emperor and Plagueis atm ^^ Agreed. I'll have to think some more on it, but that's where I'm sitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Agreed. I'll have to think some more on it, but that's where I'm sitting. Well please do post your line of thought (when done) because I'm stuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Well please do post your line of thought (when done) because I'm stuck Well, the issue with Plagueis is that we never see his full power and it is heavily implied that he got even stronger before his death. Where his upper limit is is entirely theoretical. What we know is that, in a severely weakened state, he was able to drive fists through bodies, summon Force Waves that simulate the same damage as explosives, and hurl objects with a clap of his hands. We also know that he achieved a level of corporeal immortality and could resurrect the dead. He could also create life. That's a great deal of what we know, and we are practically outright told that all of that isn't the pinnacle of his ability. To quote: I'm so confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Ok thank you for the some what side by side. Now going into this before I read, there are a few things I suspect to see when it comes to power. all of these are sith, but one of them USED to be a Jedi, as such I suspect the former Jedi to be the strongest in Control while the Dark siders to be the strongest in Alter, as I have said before it fits more with the philosophical styles. What we will actually see is unknown, but we will see where it goes. Control: I consider Midichlorian Manipulation to be Alter, rather then control. While some basis of control exists, I find it much more Alter power based then control. Looking through these I believe my suspiciouns were largely held. While I suspect Caedus would take this category, I have found that TALZIN is also here with him, as well as Plageus. I do feel Vitiate comes in last in this catergory yes essence transfer is nice, but Talzin is already pulling that off and better showing its not really all that special since her "other" portions have some sorcery needed for her valor feats which to me DOES bypass power a little, calling it further is EXTREMELY difficult. On one hand Talzin's ability against Sidious is remarkable, on the other we have Plageus's use of Valor and Caedus's use of both valor and other feats. So in this category, at least for now. The verdict : Tied for first Caedus, Plageus, and Talzin, Last: Vitiate. Sense is a category I find usually equal among sith and Jedi alike, the Jedi wish to be apart of the world and guide it, and the Sith want control the world and dominate it. So both need presence and understanding in the universe at large. That being said I find there is still likely a difference between people that believe in the Unifiying force and those that believe in the Living Force. Unifying usually means better foresight while Living usually means better surrounding senses. Destiny vs The now, if you would. Sense: Most everyone has good feats here, save for Vitiate, If I had to call this would go marginally in favor of Caedus, as again SOME sorcery on the part of Talzin suggests SOME power bypass, other portions of her "sorcery" I wouldnt call real sorcery as much as just calling it "Dathomirians being Dathomirian" IE she doesnt NEED the spell, but does it any way just because that's how they do things. I of course also find his prediction feats as well as his high level of life senses to be high, while I find JUST Plaguesis life senses to be high. This could almost be called the Unifying vs Living force difference, which it could possibly be, but I find Caedus's senses just to good for that all-in-all. Verdict: First Caedus, Tied for Second Plageus and Talzin, Last Vitiate This is a category the pure sith should excel in most of all, as such this is where I suspect Vitiate to pull ahead, with Plaegus and Talzin right behind if not equal, and Caedus bringing up the rear, lets see what I find. Alter: While some of Talzin's abilities I can just wave off a little as rituals, she has MORE then enough pure power feats to be considered a true power house, but given that I am not sure if she defeats the equally impressive members here. Every single Force user here has Jaw Dropping power in Alter portions of the force. While Plageus, Vitiate and Talzin have sorcery AND good pure Alter feats, Caedus just has PURE good Alter feats. Ultimately if I had to include the rituals they all took place in Plageus, Vitiate and Talzin would tie for first and Caedus would get last, without those rituals though, I find it a full on tie, I just can NOT be comfortable calling this category with such immense power houses. Verdict: With Sorcery: Plageus, Vitiate, Talzin tied, Caedus last, Without Sorcery just Pure: All Tied. Considering the last category when talking about sorcery the others come ahead, BUT the category being alter, thus true sith/ Darksiders are EXPECTED to pull ahead there thus finding they do doesnt mark them as noticibly superior, however when Caedus pulling up next to them when NOT considering Sorcery DOES mark him as a potential equal. This though is slightly contradicted by Plaegus and Talzin coming and marking themselves up higher in Control then their Nature would normally be, thus nulifying the advantage Caedus SHOULD have had, and nulifying his "catch up" in alter. This is overall EXTREMELY hard to call, but ultimately I have to lean in favor of Caedus for winning the "neutral category" Sense, but this is by no means a "for sure Victory" for me either Plageus or Talzin could pull that away from Caedus. Unfortunately it would take quite a bit more info on Vitiate for him to come into contention for me as while his Alter skills are impressive he has been VERY lacking in other feats. A potential Comparison of his contemporaries that he is "more powerful" then may be needed to get a proper understanding of what level he is on. Final Verdict: Caedus... for those that didnt read the whole thing. Edited January 20, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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