Quessiro Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) From yesterday's QA session on twitch: Why did you remove Purge from Dodge? Complaint from our ops designers that one of the reasons gunslingers are so popular in raids is because they can purge. Gunslingers don’t really need it since they don’t stealth. Main reason for the purge was so you can stealth. It feels soooo UNFAIR, especially, when at the same time you've given purge to Sentinels / Marauders, which are even more popular in ops groups nowadays than Slingers / Snipers. On a 45 sec cooldown. Now they have both Inspiration / Bloodthirst AND they have purge tied with 100% aggro drop.It feels soooo UNFAIR again. You've given purge to Guardians / Juggernauts. Do they need to have it be able use stealth? Again, we hear that class has been nerfed, because it's popular. Previously it was because of Ballistic Shield, now it's because of purge... it doesn't sound right. Even more, when other classes have been given purge, this argument no longer stands. There's no need to remove purge from Slingers / Snipers as all the others have gotten it (except only for Vanguard / PT, but that's another story). Overall, 3.0 changes for Slinger / Sniper feel VERY unfair. Assassins / Sorcerers, who already dominate anyway got buffed even more. Sorcerer got one of the best raid-wide utilities (10% to all stats). According to just released iconographic, Smuggler / Agent is least popular class ever (5 mil, compared to almost 9 mil Consulars / Inquisitors) and it's been badly nerfed... again. It does not feel fair, really. There are no truly new abilities in 3.0. There aren't event any new cool animations, all feels like old, recycled stuff. Lots of stuff removed, scaled down, nerfed... so disappointing. Edited November 27, 2014 by Quessiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khantalas Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Knights and Warriors both have a self-cleanse, not a purge. In fact, I'm not even sure Guardians/Juggernauts actually even get a self-cleanse. My advice is, wait until seeing the final version before complaining. For all you know, it will not change your survivability in any meaningful way, given all the other changes that are coming to all things combat related, and since you aren't going to stealth, you may not need to lose DoT effects ASAP like you might today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quessiro Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 Knights and Warriors both have a self-cleanse, not a purge. Wrong. To simplify, cleanse is an ability used by healers on others. When you self-cleanse, it's purge. In fact, I'm not even sure Guardians/Juggernauts actually even get a self-cleanse. As far as I remember, Maras get purge on Force Camo, Juggs on Enraged Defense. Can't find source though, we'll get to know for sure in 5 days. For all you know, it will not change your survivability in any meaningful way, given all the other changes that are coming to all things combat related, and since you aren't going to stealth, you may not need to lose DoT effects ASAP like you might today. Wrong again. Badly wrong this time. Given that pretty many HM / NiM mechanics are insta-death if not cleansed in just a few seconds, and healers have priority for tanks with their increased CD on cleanse, it's going to harm Sniper's survivability in very meaningful way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khantalas Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) Cleanse and purge are actually defined very differently than how you do it in the game. For example, come 3.0, DoTs can be purged, but not cleansed, and the only classes with Purge will be stealth ones. Currently, the distinction is more minor than that, but it is not about self versus other, but about the number and type of effects they can get rid of. It is theoretically possible for an ability to exist that can purge others, but as far as I can tell, it doesn't exist. And remember, you are looking at it from a 2.0-2.10 perspective, where cleanses and interrupts play a super major role. There is no reason to believe it will remain the same in 3.0. In fact, there is a lot of reason to believe it will change drastically. Edited November 27, 2014 by Khantalas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quessiro Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) And remember, you are looking at it from a 2.0-2.10 perspective, where cleanses and interrupts play a super major role. There is no reason to believe it will remain the same in 3.0. In fact, there is a lot of reason to believe it will change drastically. One of the goals of big 3.0 nerf, was to keep 2.x perspective alive. Basically, lvl 60 toons will perform more-or-less the same as lvl 55 toons to make sure that older HM / NiM content is still challenging. I'm okay with that. Are they going to drastically change DF/DP or Hateful Entity mechanics? Very unlikely. And still, it does not feel fair, when combat team gives purge ability virtually everyone, removing it from Sniper / Slinger alone. Stealthy Juggs, huh? Edited November 27, 2014 by Quessiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khantalas Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Here are the patch notes where Purge and Cleanse are defined as game terms.. Note that these definitions are subject to change in 3.0, but as of now, the term Purge has never been used by the developers in association with Knight/Warrior advanced classes, only cleanse. Note the distinction is not about who it targets, but the effects it can remove. Also, as early as the first stream showcasing Disciplines, the developers repeatedly said big changes are coming to combat in 3.0, so none of the previews should be taken in a vacuum. I'm not sure how people go from that to "only the PCs are being nerfed", but it keeps happening, so I should probably stop being bemused by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 well you cannot be interupted or leapt or pulled and have short cc/physical immunity..i think it's fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quessiro Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 well you cannot be interupted or leapt or pulled and have short cc/physical immunity..i think it's fair Please stay on topic... it really doesn't matter for PVP, 3.0 player DOTs cannot be removed anyway. They said many times, PVE was motivation for this specific change (Snipers / Slingers being too popular in their eyes). And it's PVE going to be drastically affected, making Snipers / Slingers pushovers for HM / NiM content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 something will change i think, if it's true that cleances will have a longer cd..maybe less damage.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelebrinPL Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) (deleted) Edited November 27, 2014 by KelebrinPL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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