Quick Question about Force Camouflage and Threat

[ZiggyTank]

So I was reading a guide on Dulfy on how threat works when I came across this about the mechanics of Taunting and Threat Dumps:

 

Marauders | Sentinels don’t have access to a standard threat reduction ability. Instead, they have a more powerful threat drop that will essentially reset your threat, making it very difficult for you to steal aggro again. This mechanic, however, only works for enemies that have previously targeted you at some point of the fight. Because of this, using Force Camouflage as a conventional threat drop is not suggested, and it should instead be saved until you either pull aggro and require an immediate threat drop, or to utilize its damage reduction utility.

 

and

 

Combat removal abilities such as Force Cloak should of course be used according to their place in your opening rotation, and not when you pull aggro, for the same reason as above. For Marauders | Sentinels, while it is also not recommended that you use Force Camouflage once you steal aggro in your first rotation, you have a slightly different timing window. Your threat drop will only actually work if you are being targeted when you use it, so you should save it until such time as you are targeted a second time and the tank can no longer instantly taunt off of you. Doing so will still help to maximize the tank’s threat, and will also drop your threat significantly enough that you shouldn't have to worry about pulling aggro for the remainder of the fight.

 

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So my question is this. If a Sentinel/Marauder is using Force Camouflage as a threat dump to "reset" their hate, does the boss HAVE to be targeting for the threat to reset, OR does the boss simply have to have had targeted them previously for the threat dump mechanic to work?

 

I have these three examples to see if I have this correct:

 

Example 1: Sentinel uses rotation, and before they pull threat, uses Force Camouflage. (Does no threat dump occur?)

 

Example 2: Sentinel uses rotation, pulls threat, and while the boss is targeting them (and before the tank taunts off of them), they use Force Camouflage. (Threat dump occurs, and the boss moves on to the next person on the threat table).

 

Example 3: Sentinel uses rotation, pulls threat, tank taunts off them immediately and the Sentinel uses Camouflage. (Does a threat dump still occur? The boss is no longer targeting the Sentinel, but it did earlier. Would the Force Camouflage reset the Sentinel's threat?)

[KeyboardNinja]

Force Camo works the same way that Saber Reflect does, in that it modifies threat but only if you have been damaged by an entity in the fight at some point. It's not actually a targeting thing, it's just whether or not you've taken damage (any damage) from a target in the fight (any target). Naturally, if you pull agro, it's probably going to work well since you're likely taking damage as soon as you do that, but you can also use it after an AoE, that sort of thing. Once you've been hit once, Camo should work from that point all the way to the end of the fight.

 

I definitely wouldn't use it on a script in your opener. Save it for either the movement speed increase or to drop your threat after the tank has taunted back when you pulled.

[ZiggyTank]

Sorry if I'm repeating myself, and what you're saying. But as I understand it now, it's best to use Camo as a threat dump when you pull instead of preemptively when you think you're going to pull then?

 

Using it intermittently throughout the fight (assuming you took some aoe, too) would be less effective than if you just used it when the boss looks your way? I'm wondering about groups with multiple sentinels? I see one sentinel drop threat (while I'm tanking) after I taunt (before any of them pulled threat), and use it whenever they get a feeling they're going to pull or when the tanks need to save the taunt for a separate mechanic.

 

I just want to know if I would be correct in letting the 2-3 sentinels in 16's to use Camo when the pull threat, and not preemptively, or after the taunt? Or if I should let them know to use it right after I've sent out an aoe taunt? Thank you for the reply, I just want to make sure I've got a firm grasp on the concept so I can explain it to the rest of the dps I run with.

 

I just want to do the best I can to make initial pulls cleaner, to the point where I delay a countdown so I have a few GCDs headstart, but some dps jump the gun as soon as they see my saber throw, or any movement from me or the other tank.

 

Again, thank you for the help! It is much appreciated.

[Alucardess]

For most aggro gain for you, the sentinels need to drop threat after you've taunted. This assuming they pull aggro.

The taunt will increase your aggro and the Camo will significantly drop their's, putting yours at the top.

[Scarab_]

... as I understand it now, it's best to use Camo as a threat dump when you pull instead of preemptively when you think you're going to pull then?

 

Yes.

 

It's not a threat drop, it's more like combat stealth from an Op/Sin except it doesn't actually let the Mara leave combat. Your example #2 is correct. They use it when they pull agro, then you taunt, THEN everyone else uses their traditional threat drop.

 

Using it preemptively or in any type of rotation is kinda silly. Even in the event that you didn't have a taunt immediately available after they used it, how likely is it that someone else moved into second place in threat rank other than you? Especially if everybody else is using their threat drops as they should.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Scarab_