Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Galactic Alliance vs Phantom Hegemony

[Aurbere]

#117 Neither Heads of State can perish in the initial space battle, however Second-in-Command's and Allies from both sides can perish - ultimately who if any members of Leadership are killed will be decided by the Arbiter.

 

So in this case Pellaeon is protected by plot armor, Grievous is not.

 

I was looking for that rule and couldn't find it. I knew I had read it before.

 

Well, thank you.

[Selenial]

A good point, but they still lack the naval achievements of those others mentioned.

 

And if you continue to fail to provide proof, I will stop taking you seriously.

 

Oh my, there is so much evidence it's unbelievable.

 

Face it, you made a fatal mistake in no space commanders

[karadron]

Oh my, there is so much evidence it's unbelievable.

 

Face it, you made a fatal mistake in no space commanders

 

And I has two.

 

But between Bel Iblis and Pelleaon, I would put Bel Iblis as the better commander. He's a recorded tactical genius, and was the New Republic's best chance at defeating Thrawn.

 

And TCW provides a perfectly acceptable view on Grievous.

[Beniboybling]

None of these quotes dismiss what I'm saying, hell, the first one even agrees with me.

 

Grevious was good on the whole, his genius was taking fleets, keeping their location secret or coming up with Crazy *** ideas. He however sucked in ship to ship combat, was out moved constantly by the likes of Kenobi, Skywalker and others. He was inconsistent in his feats because his enemies were unconventional.

 

But yes, his tactical genius was galactic scale, moving fleets into the right planet right as the enemy had vacated, or resupplied. His fleet was the definition of stealth, no one ever knew where he was.

 

It's entirely different here, in this round it's only done on the basis of Fleet to Fleet battles, and that's where Grevious is sorely lacking.

This does not seem logical at all.

 

Fleet to fleet battles is practically all there is to naval strategy, the rest is logistics. How can you possibly be a brilliant strategist and a military mastermind with a slew of naval victories under one's belt and suck at naval combat?!

 

Your implying that all Grievous did was direct his underlings to go there and attack that and have them do all the dirty work. This is simply not true, Grievous was the face of the Confederacy's war effort, he would have been present at every major naval engagements, been responsible for each major victory. He was a successful naval commander.

 

Noting that his naval heritage is one of up-front and personal warfare, not crunching numbers in the background.

 

Anyway I'm not expert on the EU, but I'd like to see some examples of this supposed back-seat commanding. I'd also like to see examples of Grievous being beaten, I don't recall Kenobi ever beating Grievous in a naval battle, and Anakin is only shown to have done this once. Anakin and Kenobi being excellent naval strategists in their own right.

 

Ready and waiting to be blown away...

Edited October 6, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

And TCW provides a perfectly acceptable view on Grievous.

I'd just like to point out the TCW features Grievous losing only two space battles.

 

In the first instance he is defeated after the Malevolence has destroyed dozens of Republic warships, and only then through extensive pre-preparation. An advantage that unfortunately Pellaeon does not have.

 

And in the second instance Anakin lures him into a trap, a pre-prepared trap that really nobody would have seen coming, and using an advantage that in this case Paelleon does again not have.

 

But let's not forget the opening reel to said episode:

 

After suffering a series of

disastrous defeats at the

hands of General Grievous,

the Republic's foothold in the

Outer Rim is in jeopardy.

 

And that's pretty much it, in fact his successes outnumber his defeats. So yes I'd agree TCW does provide a perfectly acceptable view on Grievous, but its a view that seems to be being construed considerably.

 

I can only assume Selenial's evidence comes from outside of the show.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

Here is my opinion on Grievous. He is noted in the Essential Guide to Warfare as a tactician who preferred using massive numbers advantages, but not at a disadvantage when he needs to work with the assets he has for a campaign. He absorbs losses without flinching. During the Clone Wars, he was an incredibly aggressive commander and utterly ruthless in his tactics.

 

I don't think he is lacking at all as a tactician. He flawlessly executed Palpatine grand military scheme, orchestrated devastating campaigns that struck fear into the hearts of Republic citizens, and outmaneuvered many a foe. And that's after being a Kaleesh Warlord and demigod.

 

This is the guy that revolutionized droid warfare, let's give him some credit.

[Warren-Stride]

Beni... I'm extremely..... curious as to why you have Ziro the Hutt in your leadership... that's gonna take some explaining for me to understand the advantages of that.

[Beniboybling]

Beni... I'm extremely..... curious as to why you have Ziro the Hutt in your leadership... that's gonna take some explaining for me to understand the advantages of that.

Well its a good thing I did a right up for that very purpose.

 

Simply put, though Ziro may appear pretty incompetent, he is anything but.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Warren-Stride]

Well its a good thing I did a right up for that very purpose.

 

\o/

 

Write-ups are the beeeest.

[Selenial]

Here is my opinion on Grievous. He is noted in the Essential Guide to Warfare as a tactician who preferred using massive numbers advantages, but not at a disadvantage when he needs to work with the assets he has for a campaign. He absorbs losses without flinching. During the Clone Wars, he was an incredibly aggressive commander and utterly ruthless in his tactics.

 

I don't think he is lacking at all as a tactician. He flawlessly executed Palpatine grand military scheme, orchestrated devastating campaigns that struck fear into the hearts of Republic citizens, and outmaneuvered many a foe. And that's after being a Kaleesh Warlord and demigod.

 

This is the guy that revolutionized droid warfare, let's give him some credit.

 

I'm not denying this, I'm just saying 90% of this won't even remotely help him here.

[Aurbere]

Beni... I'm extremely..... curious as to why you have Ziro the Hutt in your leadership... that's gonna take some explaining for me to understand the advantages of that.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[Aurbere]

I'm not denying this, I'm just saying 90% of this won't even remotely help him here.

 

Maybe not, but I have no doubt that he is more competent than you are saying. His record speaks for itself, does it not?

[Beniboybling]

I'm not denying this, I'm just saying 90% of this won't even remotely help him here.

A notion that continues to baffle me, Grievous is a military mastermind and brilliant strategist who excels in crushing his enemies in naval engagements, that is 100% useful in this situation.

 

But anyway I've said my peace, I'll await further (or rather actual) evidence before continuing.

[Warren-Stride]

So.... Rebel Spec Force and 501st working together... hmmmm....

 

I don't think Vader's personal massacre squad and the most skilled freedom fighters in the galaxy are just going to shake hands. I don't care who your leaders are, the 501st has done horrible things, and I don't think anyone who has ever been a member of the Rebel Alliance or the New Republic would ever even consider enlisting their help.

 

I simply cannot see that happening.

[Selenial]

A notion that continues to baffle me, Grievous is a military mastermind and brilliant strategist who excels in crushing his enemies in naval engagements, that is 100% useful in this situation.

 

But anyway I've said my peace, I'll await further (or rather actual) evidence before continuing.

 

I'm gathering it now, I feel bad because you seem to actually believe that he's a good tactician for this Kaggath

 

Edited October 6, 2014 by Selenial

[Selenial]

So.... Rebel Spec Force and 501st working together... hmmmm....

 

I don't think Vader's personal massacre squad and the most skilled freedom fighters in the galaxy are just going to shake hands. I don't care who your leaders are, the 501st has done horrible things, and I don't think anyone who has ever been a member of the Rebel Alliance or the New Republic would ever even consider enlisting their help.

 

I simply cannot see that happening.

 

Kinda have to agree here

[Beniboybling]

I'm gathering it now, I feel bad because you seem to actually believe that he's a good tactician for this Kaggath

[Aurbere]

So.... Rebel Spec Force and 501st working together... hmmmm....

 

I don't think Vader's personal massacre squad and the most skilled freedom fighters in the galaxy are just going to shake hands. I don't care who your leaders are, the 501st has done horrible things, and I don't think anyone who has ever been a member of the Rebel Alliance or the New Republic would ever even consider enlisting their help.

 

I simply cannot see that happening.

 

That's an interesting point.

 

On the topic of ground forces, Beni, how are your droids being controlled? CCC or independently?

[Beniboybling]

That's an interesting point.

 

On the topic of ground forces, Beni, how are your droids being controlled? CCC or independently?

Well according to Wookieepedia:

 

One of the main design flaws of the standard B1 battle droid was its reliance on a Droid Control Ship to provide a signal; if the ships were disabled, the battle droids would become useless. To remedy this, the super battle droid did not rely on such a signal and had a greater capacity for independence. However, the droid still operated best with a command signal, otherwise they tended to forget about enemies as soon as they moved out of visual range.

 

So I assume a Central Droid Computer would still be present, but in this case if it were to be destroyed the droids would not shut down, they would simply not operate quite as effectively as before.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Silenceo]

So I assume a Central Droid Computer would still be present, but in this case if it were to be destroyed the droids would not shut down, they would simply not operate quite as effectively as before.

 

Completely stripped of weapons and star fighters, right?! *Seriously, they could carry so many...*

[Aurbere]

Well according to Wookieepedia:

 

One of the main design flaws of the standard B1 battle droid was its reliance on a Droid Control Ship to provide a signal; if the ships were disabled, the battle droids would become useless. To remedy this, the super battle droid did not rely on such a signal and had a greater capacity for independence. However, the droid still operated best with a command signal, otherwise they tended to forget about enemies as soon as they moved out of visual range.

 

So I assume a Central Droid Computer would still be present, but in this case if it were to be destroyed the droids would not shut down, they would simply not operate quite as effectively as before.

 

Sounds good. IIRC Grievous had a command module in his head that he could use to take direct command of his forces. So that could replace the CCC if it were destroyed.

[karadron]

Sounds good. IIRC Grievous had a command module in his head that he could use to take direct command of his forces. So that could replace the CCC if it were destroyed.

 

What if grievous's head ended up in the hands of a skilled opponent?

[Aurbere]

What if grievous's head ended up in the hands of a skilled opponent?

 

Like Jaina?

 

Well, if that happened, then the droids would operate independently. I would also say that it is likely that the Hegemony has officer droids available.

[karadron]

Like Jaina?

 

Well, if that happened, then the droids would operate independently. I would also say that it is likely that the Hegemony has officer droids available.

 

Jaina's my muscle.

[Aurbere]

Jaina's my muscle.

 

Use her well.