brandonleewood Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 As a healer i always respect the tank, most of my problems have always been with the overzealous dps, out to showoff their numbers taking aggro and forcing me to waste resources on them that should be used for my tank. So as a rule, i follow my tanks lead where he goes i go, dps out of range and showing off? so be it they die, we'll scoop them up after the tank and i have finished clearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpope Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I disagree. By jumping first, they may instead be saying "It's just two silvers and three weaks, I can solo this so let me save everyone some time." And for a 180-geared DPS in a HM FP, that's often true. A lot of people want to "put the FLASH into FlashPoints" because they have other things to do or just enjoy rushing through it. So presuming they do not respect the tank is going a bit far. And besides, they are lowering the tank's repair bill ... Unless the healer objects to it, even when tanking, I don't think who pulls the trash is an issue if no one dies. What a DPS intends while pulling trash like that is entirely different than what a tank perceives. It is entirely reasonable for a tank to perceive that that is the intent is that the tank is not needed. Remember, most people want to feel useful. Personally, I don't care if a dps pulls the odd mob - hell we've all jumped the gun early. But if it is constant, yes it gets old real quick. And if you really, really want to faceroll a HM FP then form a premade. That way you are guaranteed to have a group that a) can actually do the instance in that manner and b) aren't sensitive to who pulls what. We should be cognizant of how our actions can be perceived by others, which is the point. What might seem innocuous to me may indeed be perceived as disrespectful by others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 As a healer i always respect the tank, most of my problems have always been with the overzealous dps, out to showoff their numbers taking aggro and forcing me to waste resources on them that should be used for my tank. So as a rule, i follow my tanks lead where he goes i go, dps out of range and showing off? so be it they die, we'll scoop them up after the tank and i have finished clearing. LOL I gotta admit Im guilty of this to as a healer If you run outta range of my heals (DPS as I stay on tank as well) I will not run to heal you Up to DPS to stay with in range of healer, not vice versa As for the rest though a DPS should NEVER be pulling or attacking first and I have been known to let DPSer die to learn that lesson (after giving fair warning of course, first privately in a tell and then publicly in group) HOWEVER, DPS pulling junk apart from the tank who should be focused on main mobs is fine as long as its done AFTER tank pulls, not before. If a tank or healer can not handle DPS separating the weak mobs from the strong ones after the pull, that's the fault of the healer of tank, not the DPS. Reading all the responses in this thread to my original post really reads like allot of very bad tanks and healers blaming everything under the sun on the DPS and bad groups. Tanks and Healers can be just as bad as the worst DPS in a group. Reads to me like many people dont understand that truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simbr Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The Guardian has less buttons than most other classes, level up a tank yourself again, learn to play it properly and problem solved. Also Guardian tank is a lot better now than a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Reading all the responses in this thread to my original post really reads like allot of very bad tanks and healers blaming everything under the sun on the DPS and bad groups. Tanks and Healers can be just as bad as the worst DPS in a group. Reads to me like many people dont understand that truth. of course they can be. but when you are tanking and you know that you are doing what you are supposed to be doing - your chances of running into bad tanks are.. kinda zero. only players you meet in flashpoints as a tank... is dps and healers. so naturally when they cause problems for you - you don't blame tanks you've never met - you blame the roles and people you actualy play with. moreover. dps is the only role you will run into regardless of which role YOU are playing. so chances of meeting bad one are much MUCH higher. I've healed for some very terrible tanks. shadows/assassins starting not from stealth, using knockback as their opener when it most certainly NOT pushing mobs closer together, vanguards/powertechs "tanking" from range, using explosive round and full auto... guardians/juggs using THEIR knockback completely at random. all of the above, not maintaining any of their cooldowns, especially the ones that should be part of the rotation. I've ran into healers that gave me headaches of epic proportion - mercs not using kolto shell, operatives not using kolto probes, sorcs not using innervate - and that's just for starters. problem is... tanks are the ones in a spotlight. tanks are the ones that get blamed for everything. tanks are the ones that are supposed to lead, supposed to know everything, supposed to compensate for the group's shortcomings, tanks are the ones with biggest repair bill outside of players of any role that insist on standing in stupid and dying to it. right now - it requires practically a martyr mentality for someone to keep queueing as a tank. at least when they are not obliviously awful. I'm all for taking personal responsibility. but I refuse to take on responsibility for other people's actions. not anymore. P.S. and no, dps attacking weak mobs don't bother me, in fact - I thank them when they do. DPS jumping ahead of me, DPS tunnel visioning strongest mob while I'm now trying to both keep that mob on me AND grab the rest of the pull that's now high tailing it for the healer (bonus points when it was dps that started the pull, so all of the above is now twice as "fun" ) tanking with people who work with you can be a very fun experience. tanking for people who are actively working against you? not so much Edited July 16, 2014 by Jeweledleah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 tanking with people who work with you can be a very fun experience. tanking for people who are actively working against you? not so much Hmm, this makes me think that the way I tank HM FPs -- always with my wife, usually with her as a heals so the queues, in the words of Ruby Rod, "pop pop pop!" -- allows me to avoid much of the pain of pugging as a tank. Having even just one other person in the group with you in Mumble/whatever may make a huge difference for a tank. I am not a great tank but I think I am OK, and the only time I have ever wiped while tanking a HM FP with my wife was when we hit rage timers in CZ because a Sorc in heal spec queued into a DPS slot. So tanks, buddy up, and you'll usually be super green! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Hmm, this makes me think that the way I tank HM FPs -- always with my wife, usually with her as a heals so the queues, in the words of Ruby Rod, "pop pop pop!" -- allows me to avoid much of the pain of pugging as a tank. Having even just one other person in the group with you in Mumble/whatever may make a huge difference for a tank. I am not a great tank but I think I am OK, and the only time I have ever wiped while tanking a HM FP with my wife was when we hit rage timers in CZ because a Sorc in heal spec queued into a DPS slot. So tanks, buddy up, and you'll usually be super green! 100% agreed. and it has an added bonus of people seeing same guild tag and actualy trying to be on their best behavior. since completely random group may or may not kick you but with guildies? possibility is suddenly very likely. at least that's the only reason I can see for my pugs when with at least one guildie - not even necessarily a healer - always ALWAYS go several times smoother than fully random group. even queueing with a friend who may not have the same guild tag improves experience though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 However the PUGs want tanks too. And even 'average' tanks or dedicated solo players who level as tank are often better than no tanks at all. However, there is currently nothing in place to reward them for being as tough as they are. Thanks for us who are mostly soloers and well at some time, like around lvl 55, consider starting tanking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Teach me to stand up for DPSer Earlier I stated about needing more tanks for HM flashpoints I said its not just dpsers that bad (and to be honest that's true cause follow up group I had contained two gunslingers who were fantastic at class and understood little things like staying grouped togather for healer AOE) But first group just made me think of this thread and all the complaints about bad DPSers Get a tactical as my healer sage. Same sage thats handled hm ops just fine mostly run Tacticals on him to outfit alts with better gear faster now. But this group has uber gunslinger (or so he thought) who runs off breaking LOS with me, gets agro of 4 mobs (2 elites) and proceeds to go from 32k health to empty in couple seconds (For record I did try to heal him but idiot jumped behind a concrete blockade and then went into crouch completely breaking LOS to receive heals) So he dies and first thing hes says is "Thanks for the heals" I say "Excuse me? You were out of LOS, I tried" So uber gunslinger who clearly lacks at his own class in understanding basic mechanics of the game (Staying in LOS of healer really not that advance a mechanic or tactic, not to mention he broke cc on one of the elites as I had cc'd it at start of fight) tries to lecture me on how to heal a freaking story mode tactical and I should only heal and never add damage (so far only person that needed healing was him because he didnt understand basic principle of assisting the mellee DPSers assuming tthe makeshift tank role) LOL just said sorry to other 2 guys who hadnt said anything and both of them understood what LOS is and remained at full health for all fights, and dropped saying the jack$$$ needs to learn his own class Totally dont need to put up with an idiot like that as a healer. LOL, now I remember the DPSer that drive healers and tanks off from using Group Finder Still as I said in other thread, I just put the kid on ignore, waited out my 10 minutes, queued up again and got a great group of players. Bad DPSer is the exception rather then rule I find. Had to share cause annoying at the time but to funny after the fact Of course he was flagged PVP just to add to the general dislike of him over all PS: Yes Ive started 3 tanks (1 vangard, 1 Shadow, 1 Assassin. Quite enjoying the assassin and Shadow so far. Vangard still iffy but way to low level to judge yet fully. And yes this idiot gunslingers name will be added to all their ignore lists (so wish we had ignore acct option) so never have to group with him again. Edited July 19, 2014 by Kalfear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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