Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Chirikyat Ascendancy vs Republic Resistance

[Beniboybling]

Eh, they have chairs with restraints. Otherwise they could re-calibrate the internal gravity system to make upside down the norm for them.

 

Whatever it takes, that's kinda Daala's motto...

 

But you're also right about the sloped hull, as we can see in the battle vs. the Tantive IV...

To be fair I'm not sure how useful it would be, as far as I can tell they can shoot "above" themselves, just like the Venator. Sidling on side them would work, but I fear it may leave them open to return fire.

[Beniboybling]

I don't agree with that as the Kyramud is a tightly packed vessel and the Heavy Proton Torpedos are still very powerful and despite how dumb you may think it is, the design of your own ship is the weakness here. Also again where is it stated that all neo crusader ships including the Kyramuds had Beskar plating? Because if that was true the Republic Navy would have been roflstomped, I see no mention of Beskar in the Kyramud's article.

 

So I take it you ignored the part about angling his own ships to give no trajectory to the Anakin Solo then?

 

Why do you believe that without asteroids or some such he suddenly stops being the best tactician in the GA? I said it earlier but if all it takes to beat the Thrawn simulator is asteroids then why didn't every decent admiral beat it? answer: he is a far more varied and broad tactician than you seem to think.

 

Also perhaps my memory is bad but when has she ever pulled anything like an in-system jump? She is an aggressive admiral but she is not reckless.

Beskar was also often used in the construction of Mandalorian starships,[5] including the likes of the Bes'uliik-class starfighter, which featured an outer armored shell of micronized beskar.

 

-- Wookieepedia on Mandalorian iron.

 

Its not definite, admittedly, but it seems a likelihood to me. Beskar is tough yet but remember we are talking turbolasers here, I doubt they would prove so invulnerable (though still strong) against that kind of firepower.

 

In general I feel the plated shell design indicates Beskar.

[Warren-Stride]

Beskar was also often used in the construction of Mandalorian starships,[5] including the likes of the Bes'uliik-class starfighter, which featured an outer armored shell of micronized beskar.

 

-- Wookieepedia on Mandalorian iron.

 

Its not definite, admittedly, but it seems a likelihood to me. Beskar is tough yet but remember we are talking turbolasers here, I doubt they would prove so invulnerable (though still strong) against that kind of firepower.

 

In general I feel the plated shell design indicates Beskar.

 

Bes'uliik-class starfighters were made in 40 ABY. And on the MandalMotors page, it does not mention that factory/company (which makes all Mandalorian ships) using it at all before 40 ABY. Obviously the Bes'uliik-class starfighter was the first ship to use Beskar.

[Beniboybling]

Bes'uliik-class starfighters were made in 40 ABY. And on the MandalMotors page, it does not mention that factory/company (which makes all Mandalorian ships) using it at all before 40 ABY. Obviously the Bes'uliik-class starfighter was the first ship to use Beskar.

And yet the intial part of the quote uses the History of the Mandalorians as its source, an article published 2 years before the Bes'uliik-class had already debuted, so that can't be the case.

 

And that fact can certainly be intepreted by as them discovering some Mandalorian iron (which given that they "discovered" it I assume was rare/running out at the time) and they thought, "hey this would be neat for that new starfighter we were designing." Not "wait a minute, looking at the properties of this iron that we've been using to make armor for thousands of years, I think we could actually apply this to a starship! No way!" It doesn't seem likely.

 

EDIT: Honestly I'd ask what is stopping them, they know how to forge Beskar and they were not living in the dark ages.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Warren-Stride]

And yet the intial part of the quote uses the History of the Mandalorians as its source, an article published 2 years before the Bes'uliik-class had already debuted, so that can't be the case.

 

And that fact can certainly be intepreted by as them discovering some Mandalorian iron (which given that they "discovered" it I assume was rare/running out at the time) and they thought, "hey this would be neat for that new starfighter we were designing." Not "wait a minute, looking at the properties of this iron that we've been using to make armor for thousands of years, I think we could actually apply this to a starship! No way!" It doesn't seem likely.

 

The reason the discovery was such a big deal is because Beskar is RARE. As I pointed out in my other post, it was not used for Neo-Crusader armor nor was it used for Basilisk War Droids. At best it's used to make guantlets or swords. Concentrated armoring uses were implausible with the limited amount of Beskar they have. After the discovery of a new deposit in 40 ABY, they finally had enough Beskar to apply it to ships. In fact, after such a big lode they could still only use it on fighters, not capital ships.

[Selenial]

Ok, Seriously guys. Calm down.

 

This is like marking a Drama evaluation essay in which each student blames the others for the groups shortcomings, and it's started to piss me off >.>

 

I swear to god, the next person who insults the other one will receive.... Deadly Repercussions

 

No but seriously, those of age, go grab a glass of wine, or coffee or something, and settle down to a nice couple hours of friendly debate. Those not of age, go Jell your hair up, take a bunch of selfies, or do whatever teens do nowadays to calm themselves down, come back, and learn some respect.

 

This tournament was created to have some fun, don't get angry at people who request sources, or prove you wrong, that's the entire point of this series, now, let's try this again.

[Beniboybling]

More evidence:

 

After the Galactic Republic was transformed into the Galactic Empire, Imperials began brokering negotiations with the clan chieftains of Mandalore in order to establish a garrison base on the planet and acquire the rights to mine for Mandalorian iron. An offer of eight hundred million credits was issued for exclusive beskar mining rights in the Tokursh region of Mandalore, and the MandalMotors company was solicited to refurbish old prison ships and construct new ones with Mandalorian iron enhancements.

 

Proof that the Bes'uliik line was not the first.

 

This new lode of Mandalorian iron led to an economically prosperous era for Mandalore, and the creation of new starships such as the Bes'uliik-class starfighter by MandalMotors—whose CEO, Jir Yomaget, elected to provide the Bes'uliik line with micronized beskar armor instead of a beskar laminate—and the Tra'kad, which employed heavy Mandalorian iron armor plating.

 

Mincronized beskar and beskar laminate were at this point age old techniques, indicatiting that this was not a new discovery, they just lacked the resoruces. And proof that it could be applied to capital ships i.e. the Tra'Kad.

[Beniboybling]

Ok, Seriously guys. Calm down.

 

This is like marking a Drama evaluation essay in which each student blames the others for the groups shortcomings, and it's started to piss me off >.>

 

I swear to god, the next person who insults the other one will receive.... Deadly Repercussions

 

No but seriously, those of age, go grab a glass of wine, or coffee or something, and settle down to a nice couple hours of friendly debate. Those not of age, go Jell your hair up, take a bunch of selfies, or do whatever teens do nowadays to calm themselves down, come back, and learn some respect.

 

This tournament was created to have some fun, don't get angry at people who request sources, or prove you wrong, that's the entire point of this series, now, let's try this again.

Stop this Sel, your starting to do a better job that me.

 

Grab a glass of wine, classic.

[Selenial]

The reason the discovery was such a big deal is because Beskar is RARE. As I pointed out in my other post, it was not used for Neo-Crusader armor nor was it used for Basilisk War Droids. At best it's used to make guantlets or swords. Concentrated armoring uses were implausible with the limited amount of Beskar they have. After the discovery of a new deposit in 40 ABY, they finally had enough Beskar to apply it to ships. In fact, after such a big lode they could still only use it on fighters, not capital ships.

 

As has been stated, Beskar was running out by that point because all the natural sources had been strip mined.

 

The reason armor wasn't Beskar, or Basilisks weren't, was because:

A) It's a waste, most ground blasters couldnt punch through other metals on a basilisk, let alone beskar

B) They had rarer, stronger metals that the high ranking mandalorians would use in their armor. Metal that is blaster and saber resistant.

[Warren-Stride]

Mincronized beskar and beskar laminate were at this point age old techniques, indicatiting that this was not a new discovery, they just lacked the resoruces. And proof that it could be applied to capital ships i.e. the Tra'Kad.

 

Then this only proves the point further that there was not enough Beskar supply for the Neo-Crusaders to make things out of it. Come on, we're really going to say that Basilisk War Droids, which Mandalorians took great pride in and treated like glorious war steeds, were not given Beskar armoring while ships x1000 times their size were given a full hull of it? What?

[Silenceo]

Ok, Seriously guys. Calm down.

 

This is like marking a Drama evaluation essay in which each student blames the others for the groups shortcomings, and it's started to piss me off >.>

 

I swear to god, the next person who insults the other one will receive.... Deadly Repercussions

 

No but seriously, those of age, go grab a glass of wine, or coffee or something, and settle down to a nice couple hours of friendly debate. Those not of age, go Jell your hair up, take a bunch of selfies, or do whatever teens do nowadays to calm themselves down, come back, and learn some respect.

 

This tournament was created to have some fun, don't get angry at people who request sources, or prove you wrong, that's the entire point of this series, now, let's try this again.

 

Unsure if I am part of that, or not. I don't think I was *glances back at previous posts* then again, I have been known in the past to subconsciously type angrily and not realize it... If that is the case, then time for me to go stare at some wiki pages to let numbers and the awesome might of the Empire chill my thoughts.

[Warren-Stride]

B) They had rarer, stronger metals that the high ranking mandalorians would use in their armor. Metal that is blaster and saber resistant.

 

Such as...?

[Selenial]

I feel like this Beskar discussion affects the Kaggath more as a whole, and that's outside my jurisdiction

 

I formally throw the duties of deciding this to the Supreme Arbiter Emperor of kings, prince of Darkness, protector of the realm and warden of the North... Or whatever he's calling himself nowadays, to decide.

[Selenial]

Such as...?

 

Ok never mind I lied.

 

I thought Beskar'kandar was a different metal, I'm guessing the clue is in the name >.>

 

So yeh, that. Though there are plenty of other more durable metals that would be used instead, Cortosis would be a more valuable choice IMO, but I'm guessing that came later.

[Silenceo]

I feel like this Beskar discussion affects the Kaggath more as a whole, and that's outside my jurisdiction

 

I formally throw the duties of deciding this to the Supreme Arbiter Emperor of kings, prince of Darkness, protector of the realm and warden of the North... Or whatever he's calling himself nowadays, to decide.

 

Did you try the Arbiter Supreme Signal? It tends to light the sky quite brilliantly in times of need.

 

Side Note: If I have insulted some one or hurt another's feelings so far, then I apologize and say now that I mean no offense to anyone, and only wish to have an epic debate among titanic factions.

[Aurbere]

Ok, Seriously guys. Calm down.

 

This is like marking a Drama evaluation essay in which each student blames the others for the groups shortcomings, and it's started to piss me off >.>

 

I swear to god, the next person who insults the other one will receive.... Deadly Repercussions

 

No but seriously, those of age, go grab a glass of wine, or coffee or something, and settle down to a nice couple hours of friendly debate. Those not of age, go Jell your hair up, take a bunch of selfies, or do whatever teens do nowadays to calm themselves down, come back, and learn some respect.

 

This tournament was created to have some fun, don't get angry at people who request sources, or prove you wrong, that's the entire point of this series, now, let's try this again.

 

Is that what teens do these days? I'm not even 'of age' and I don't do any of that. Jeez...

 

Anyway, I'd like to bring up one of my posts I made earlier so it doesn't get lost.

 

Things are getting a bit heated.

 

To add something to the debate, I'd like to point out the fighter numbers. It seems to me that the Republic Resistance has a larger number of starfighters that can be deployed, and I feel that the Chirikyat Ascendancy doesn't have the fighter defense necessary to overcome that advantage.

 

Thoughts?

[Silenceo]

To add something to the debate, I'd like to point out the fighter numbers. It seems to me that the Republic Resistance has a larger number of starfighters that can be deployed, and I feel that the Chirikyat Ascendancy doesn't have the fighter defense necessary to overcome that advantage.

 

That was already previously covered by me soon after Tune posted the fleet comparisons. Which is the key point that lead to the whole thing with the Ascendancy attempting to destroy the Venators swiftly, to stop them from deploying all of the fighter craft. Another piece that came up was deployment speeds, but that one is still a bit iffy.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Silenceo

[Aurbere]

That was already previously covered by me soon after Tune posted the fleet comparisons. Which is the key point that lead to the whole thing with the Ascendancy attempting to destroy the Venators swiftly, to stop them from deploying all of the fighter craft. Another piece that came up was deployment speeds, but that one is still a bit iffy.

 

Must have missed that then. Whoops.

 

I feel that positioning is going to be a big deal in that case.

[Selenial]

The energy blade ricocheted off the armor plating, but not before slicing through one of the stabilizing fins at the tip

 

The blasterfire ricocheted harmlessly off the armor plating

 

It's not outright stated that Bassilisks have Beskar plating, but my god they're tough, are we sure they're not Beskar plated?

 

Also that passage is something to look back on once the space battle is called, someone remind me.

[StarSquirrel]

Honestly I was going to stay up and debate this and just take a two hour lunch break at work to tide me over, but being ridiculed, disrespected, ignored and insulted since your very first post star I thought this would be fun but apparently you have taken it upon yourself to barrate me at every turn.

 

Claim it's not directed at me all you want but an apology means little when you do exactly the same thing in the same post.

 

Good day all.

 

II am certainly stand-offish like Warren pointed out but if you go back through the thread you'll see that just about every point I make is disregarded, undermined, mocked, or otherwise ignored Rayla. Respect goes both ways.

 

You use Wall of Light repeatedly as your counter to any point I make about Kun or Maul's power. (after I countered it multiple times)

 

You ridiculed my choice of Maul and implied he was utterly impotent. (even after others posed possible uses for him)

 

My argument about the Anakin Solo and micro-jumps was entirely ignored until I reposted it and even then there was never a reasonable objection made against it. Rayla you pretty much moved along as though it hadn't been brought up and when you did mention it, it was in a passive dismissal.

 

You claim an Acclamator could 1-shot my choice of Frigate (AFTER I countered this argument)

 

You claimed my Massassi would be massacred with virtually no harm to the clones (After I countered this argument twice)

 

You claimed Nek means insta-win in space (after I countered this many times)

 

You claim Daala will defect (after I countered that argument 3 times)

 

And in most of the cases when you made the claim after I'd countered you never gave any argument to refute the counter.

 

Rayla, I apologize that I said things to make you feel that way. It was wrong.

 

Now, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop dismissing my arguments out of hand and start being reasonable (like stop making claims that Acclamators can 1-shot Kyramuds). and we can go back to having fun. Seriously, it is no fun for me to keep reposting the same arguments again and again because the get ignored either. We're int he same boat.

 

Could I have gone about refuting your points more clearly and politely, most certainly. I will endeavour to do so in the future.

Edited July 3, 2014 by StarSquirrel

[Aurbere]

It's not outright stated that Bassilisks have Beskar plating, but my god they're tough, are we sure they're not Beskar plated?

 

Also that passage is something to look back on once the space battle is called, someone remind me.

 

If I had more knowledge of Star Wars metals, I'd be better able to judge, but it seems likely that they had some beskar. If not, then they still have some pretty tough armor.

 

And I'll be sure to remind you if Star doesn't bring it up first.

[Selenial]

And I'll be sure to remind you if Star doesn't bring it up first.

 

Mmm, it goes nicely in depth about how the basilisks killed Jedi, and how ridiculously OP they were in terms of ground engagements. Also Jedi's tactics for beating a basilisk, but I feel the PT era wouldn't be as good at this as say the Revanchists, or suriks order, as the Basilisks were ancient for them.

 

But yeh... BACK TO SPACE.

[Warren-Stride]

I think the Sun Guard may be an issue for the Ascendancy.

 

I mentioned their reluctance to follow a Mandalore, and I realize that you answered that argument Star, but I'm not convinced that the two cultures would ever be able to truly work together. If Mandalore's command of them was kept minimal it could work, but then I don't really see Mandalore's purpose in this Kaggath.

 

I totally get you Star with the whole "one of your leadership has to be associated with every one of your units", that was annoying for me too. But at the moment I don't think Mandalore is doing anything for you. What do you think he should/would do in this Kaggath to help the Ascendancy?

 

But other than the Mandalore issue, the Sun Guard, I assume, are the ones piloting Ascendancy ships. If that's the case, that could be a problem. I don't doubt that the Sun Guard could pilot the ships, but I don't think they've ever been shown to be particularly good pilots, putting the Republic ahead as far as pilot skill.

 

Additionally, the Sun Guard have faced the Republic's forces before. The Sun Guard fought in the Clone Wars, where their 2nd Regiment was crushed by Republic General Solomahal. Two Sun Guards were deployed to Kashyyyk during the PT era and were killed by two Jedi padawans. These examples basically prove that both Republic ground forces are more than a match for the Sun Guard.

 

I think Sun Guard would be best used as task-force, specialist types, at least on the ground. Open warfare doesn't seem to be their forte.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Aurbere]

Mmm, it goes nicely in depth about how the basilisks killed Jedi, and how ridiculously OP they were in terms of ground engagements. Also Jedi's tactics for beating a basilisk, but I feel the PT era wouldn't be as good at this as say the Revanchists, or suriks order, as the Basilisks were ancient for them.

 

But yeh... BACK TO SPACE.

 

Suppose it depends on how they engage them. Certainly Nomi would have some information, right? If not, then too bad for them.

 

Anyway, back to space. I feel that ship positioning will make an impact. I know the Anakin Solo has long range batteries, which is being argued to be used to hit the Venators while they deploy fighters, but how many Venators can they hit? And are they going to know to do that? Would it really matter anyway? Technically the entire front of the Venator is just a massive hangar that opens and closes, so just shooting at the thing while its deploying is going to do some damage.

 

Rambling I know.

[Selenial]

Ok, guys, how many more points do you all have for space?

 

If you guys can all (as many of you as possible) make final arguments (If you have no more points, so many walls of texts I think we're finished) I can do a space tally and begin to factor in the Space battle.

 

And yes, I think it should be called in the next day (Max) seeing as you really can't discuss a ground battle until we decide whether Mandalmotors and the Ascendancy gets supply drops etc, or the Resistance does.