StarSquirrel Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Seems fair right? I'm fine with that if you are Sel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) I think the Sun Guard may be an issue for the Ascendancy. I mentioned their reluctance to follow a Mandalore, and I realize that you answered that argument Star, but I'm not convinced that the two cultures would ever be able to truly work together. If Mandalore's command of them was kept minimal it could work, but then I don't really see Mandalore's purpose in this Kaggath. I totally get you Star with the whole "one of your leadership has to be associated with every one of your units", that was annoying for me too. But at the moment I don't think Mandalore is doing anything for you. What do you think he should/would do in this Kaggath to help the Ascendancy? But other than the Mandalore issue, the Sun Guard, I assume, are the ones piloting Ascendancy ships. If that's the case, that could be a problem. I don't doubt that the Sun Guard could pilot the ships, but I don't think they've ever been shown to be particularly good pilots, putting the Republic ahead as far as pilot skill. Additionally, the Sun Guard have faced the Republic's forces before. The Sun Guard fought in the Clone Wars, where their 2nd Regiment was crushed by Republic General Solomahal. Two Sun Guards were deployed to Kashyyyk during the PT era and were killed by two Jedi padawans. These examples basically prove that both Republic ground forces are more than a match for the Sun Guard. I think Sun Guard would be best used as task-force, specialist types, at least on the ground. Open warfare doesn't seem to be their forte. Some info on Mandalore the Indomitable: Mandalore the Indomitable was an accomplished warrior, who had earned the title and position of Mand'alor through his skill as a warrior, charisma as a leader, and intuition in war. Though his original Taung name was forgotten, upon claiming the title of Mandalore his warriors began to call him the "Indomitable" due to his prowess in battle. Like the Mandalores who came before him, Mandalore the Indomitable understood what it meant to be Mando'ade and he used his skills as a warrior and as a commander to lead the Mandalorian Crusaders to victory in numerous successful military campaigns. As a leader, Mandalore possessed a natural charisma which he used to inspire his Mandalorian clans in battle, such as during the Battle of Onderon near the end of the Great Sith War. To those outside the Mandalorian Crusaders, Mandalore established his skills as a warrior when he challenged the Sith Lord Ulic Qel-Droma to a duel. Even though Mandalore was eventually defeated by the Sith, Qel-Droma was impressed with the way which the Mandalorian chieftain conducted himself in battle and chose not to kill him—instead, Qel-Droma made Mandalore his personal warlord. Mandalore would continually demonstrate his skills as a warrior in future battles, such as those fought at Foerost, Coruscant, and Onderon. I see no reason to believe that Mandalore's prowess as a leader should not rival or even surpass Windu and Cody's. I'd even go as far to say that he could match any one or several of the Republic Resistance's Jedi Knights. Anyway I think I agree with StarSquirrel concerning the Sun Guard though, rivalry suggests respect. Ah yes, I never specified naval officers for the Ascendancy, the only real option I see is Mandalorian Crusaders, courtesy of Mandalore, I can't see any evidence that the Sun Guard ever manned any fleets so we'd be guessing there. I assume that is acceptable Star? If so I'll update the OP. Edited July 3, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren-Stride Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Actually coming to read their Wookiee page, it turns out they were trained extensively in stealth and melee combat. food for thought. And urban warfare. Not exactly applicable here, but you know... the concrete jungle and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Concerning space, before anything is called, I think we should focus on this argument - which could make or break the space battle. I also think we should give ample time for Lady to make her rebuttal and final arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 And urban warfare. Not exactly applicable here, but you know... the concrete jungle and whatnot. The Sun Guard where, and I quote "one of the most feared military organizations in history" - I think they can adapt. I mean we are talking about swinging a blade at a meaty fleshsack, I doubt a vine is going to get in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I assume that is acceptable Star? If so I'll update the OP. Yes, yes it is, lol Sel had just asked that as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Concerning space, before anything is called, I think we should focus on this argument - which could make or break the space battle. I also think we should give ample time for Lady to make her rebuttal and final arguments. Indeed. I know Rayla's at work, and needs some time to cool off (A break is definitely justified, this Kaggath took off, would put strain on anyone) so I was planning on calling this around 6-8 pm GMT Tomorrow, if I'm not asleep catching up after early travels ( Would only be a short nap, I doubt we need to leave this longer than a day) which gives us the weekend to discuss the implications on the ground battle and other items, before entering the home stretch next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 My final argument on Space is this. Between Daala and Nek, we all know Nek is the better tactician. My argument though, is that as good as Nek is, he has had times where retreat was his only option. He wins battles when they're fought on his terms. He is an admiral who plays the big picture much of the time. His work against the Vong was based on ambushes or countering them and predicting his enemy. The problem here is that he doesn't have time or room to prepare. He is a master fleet tactician, but Daala is a master tactician herself. She knows Nek and his work, she has a ship he once commanded, she has all the tools at her fingertips to pull off the micro-jump tactic and to do so under cloak, giving Nek no time to react. It comes down to Nek not having the opportunity to showcase his talents as opposed to having them beat. also, like Tune mentioned. Turning the Venator on its side to release the fighters would help, but the reduced firepower against the Imperial II's would leave both the Venators and the Bellator exposed and outnumbered by 7 Imperial II's one of which has the most advanced targeting and anti-starfighter weapons on the battle field. (the Solo's were advanced for their time) As for ship comparisons, I tend to agree with Tune's analysis barring the increased survivability of the Kyramud as a result of the Beskar argument Beni so eloquently made. But using the tactics I posed that would put the Republic fleet in very dire straits. Just one thing that I thought, Technically if they can hurt the Anakin they can retreat to hyperspace as many times as they please should Nek wish to. If he ran into a situation where retreat was his only option, that IS an option once the Anakin was taken down (obviously might prove difficult thanks to its range, but from that range it might not be in range to stop them so there is that) Obviously if he were to retreat control of the planet for at least a temporary time would allow you to deliver supplies at a good rate. Though I am sure there could be some supply raids and ambushes in space if he wanted to draw you away from the planet. As far as my understanding of space goes, in it.... EVERY THING GOES, just not allowed to bombard planets. Also I dont think Daala KNOWS Nek is on the other side, you also lack an intel service or operatives to discover the make up of your enemies Allies. Nek on the other hand may know Daala is on the other side since Republic Intel, would only need to intercept transmissions hack security camera's you know all the stuff you dont need some one on the enemy team to help with to do, but if the enemy doesnt realize your doing it could cause you issues. Also I am aware of the Beskar, but as far as I am aware the Acclamator's were made of very strong Materials as well, for me tech rule just calls them both though and calls it a day dont wish to over complicate or get into pissing contest of who's armor was better for its size . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren-Stride Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 The Sun Guard where, and I quote "one of the most feared military organizations in history" - I think they can adapt. I mean we are talking about swinging a blade at a meaty fleshsack, I doubt a vine is going to get in the way. I don't disagree. I've been a fan of the Sun Guard every since the G0-T0 vs. Darth Plageius Kaggath so long ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I don't disagree. I've been a fan of the Sun Guard every since the G0-T0 vs. Darth Plageius Kaggath so long ago... My lord, the old Kaggath series seems like decades ago. I didn't really participate, wasn't really my style, but man we've turned perceptions on Traya and the Exile around since then... I remember people making arguments that she couldnt see droids, and would fall to 2-3 HK-50's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Honestly as far as calling this tomorow, I dont know if we have covered enough as far as Space goes. More specifically movements, leaving the system, returning to the system, cutting off supply routes and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren-Stride Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) I remember people making arguments that she couldnt see droids, and would fall to 2-3 HK-50's Hey now. That's in the past. Let's move on. I immediately regret even mentioning G0-T0 in this tournament. It shall be the last time. Edited July 3, 2014 by Warren-Stride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Honestly as far as calling this tomorow, I dont know if we have covered enough as far as Space goes. More specifically movements, leaving the system, returning to the system, cutting off supply routes and the like. Again, the possibility of leaving the system is entirely down to who wins the actual battle (as both have interdictors) and cutting off supply lines is a given, but only possible for the fleet that ends up victorious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Hey now. That's in the past. Let's move on. I immediately regret even mentioning G0-T0 in this tournament. It shall be the last time. Wait that was you? I didn't remember who it was XD Tbh, it's an understandable theory, if you haven't played the game too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren-Stride Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Wait that was you? >.> <.< ... No....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Again, the possibility of leaving the system is entirely down to who wins the actual battle (as both have interdictors) and cutting off supply lines is a given, but only possible for the fleet that ends up victorious. But they both only have 1 interdictor. Would it be to farfetched to think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW_hGOFukMQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Also I dont think Daala KNOWS Nek is on the other side, you also lack an intel service or operatives to discover the make up of your enemies Allies. Nek on the other hand may know Daala is on the other side since Republic Intel, would only need to intercept transmissions hack security camera's you know all the stuff you dont need some one on the enemy team to help with to do, but if the enemy doesnt realize your doing it could cause you issues. Also I am aware of the Beskar, but as far as I am aware the Acclamator's were made of very strong Materials as well, for me tech rule just calls them both though and calls it a day dont wish to over complicate or get into pissing contest of who's armor was better for its size . To your first point. Yeah I'm aware Daala doesn't know Nek is opposite her, but what she does know is how to use that tactic because she know Nek, a prominent genius in her field, and his tactics. Regardless of if he's involved here or not. I've heard about the Acclamator's armor. I'd say it'd give less of an advantage than the Beskar, but you're right it does make the Acclamator a tougher ship all-around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren-Stride Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Would it be to farfetched to think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW_hGOFukMQ There are so many things I don't understand about that scene... A discussion for another time, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 >.> <.< ... No....? Traya is blind. She cannot sense the droids with the Force. A HK-50 assassination will work. Don't worry, i won't hold it against you.... I have educated you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 There are so many things I don't understand about that scene... A discussion for another time, I suppose. Power lost from the bridge, all direction systems went haywire and the ship was sucked in by the Death Stars gravity. If that's what confused you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Don't worry, i won't hold it against you.... I have educated you LOL! We are still doing quotes of the match right? Feel free to pick your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 To your first point. Yeah I'm aware Daala doesn't know Nek is opposite her, but what she does know is how to use that tactic because she know Nek, a prominent genius in her field, and his tactics. Regardless of if he's involved here or not. I've heard about the Acclamator's armor. I'd say it'd give less of an advantage than the Beskar, but you're right it does make the Acclamator a tougher ship all-around. I am aware that is a tactic she can use, but I meant it more in the respect that she doesnt know that he may recognize it or doesnt know what the enemies response will be since she doesnt know who the enemy is. Knowledge of the enemy can be very helpful is all I am saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren-Stride Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Don't worry, i won't hold it against you.... I have educated you You're the wooooorst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 LOL! We are still doing quotes of the match right? Feel free to pick your own. If she were to pick her own it would definately be #181. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 You're the wooooorst. You love me really :D:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts