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Ideas/Suggestions for Sentinel Quality of Life Improvement


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Like the title suggests

Some of the current problems with the sentinel class in general is the overall survivalbility regarding pvp/ pve (solo) no poket healer. These are my suggestions I don't want to make sentinel/ marauder op as ****, but I still think they are a behind survialbilty compared to rdps.

 

In general I think this is what the sentinel/marauder need for survival in pvp/ pve (solo)

1.Revert GBTF (health is lost prior to use of GBTF, quality of life improvement)

2.Bring jedi enforcer into the lower tier for all specs to points into if they chose (increases rebuke duration, better defenses = good)

3.Force Camo is now pretty ****** for escapes, not useless though. Increasing the duration to 5 sec or maybe....6 will definitely help, compared to the 45 sec cool down

4.Saber ward is a good ability but, the cool down if killer compared to the defenses it provides (decrease the cool down to 45 - 1 min max) 3 min cool down is BAddd also maybe... increasing the increasing the defenses by 60% and tech and force dmg reduction by 35% would help (just a suggestion).

 

Now to move into specific specs improvement to help out the class, and better quality of life stuff.

 

Watchman:

1.The damage increase in 2.8 was nice but survialibity is still ****, bring back the 2% heals back its needed badly

2.Zealous Ward in watchman is kinda ******, 2% heal per 1.5 sec is crap, it should be per sec to give better survialbility .

3.Force Fade although I don't personlly spec into it since its useless to me anyways, it would be nice if putting points into this would give extra bonus besids speed boost, u can already do that with force camo + transendance.(perhaps increases defenses).

4. Merciless stacks I get the idea behind it but, it takes too long to build them up for pvp sometimes pve, to do optimal dmg, it would help if 2 merciless stacks were built instead of one, there would still be a ramp up but it wouldn't be so bad.

5. Juyo form same thing, takes to long to build up stakes, 2 per stack will increase the quality of life for watchman sentinels.

 

Combat:

1. A shame combat didn't get any changes in 2.8, this spec is to proc reliant, like crazy reliant (awesome burst though) I think blade rush should build up stakes of 3 or 4 in order to get the hand of justice and precision slash, would definitely help with the proc reliant, but wouldn't make it too op (similarly to the sage balance/ sorc madness mechanic with wrath/ presence of mind

2. this spec is crazy susceptible to cc, some sort of cc or knock back resistance would improve the quality of lfe for combat sentinels (maybe with force camo)

3. Although I m not crazy behind proc I do like them sometimes, to the opportune attack proc i suggest should be there but the %chance should definitely increase

 

Focus:

1. Focus took a beating back in 2.7, with sweaps auto crits gone, an amazing and op spec disappears, in order to accomidate the single target damage should increase

2. Enduring is crap: I want my health reduction to 25% back, not lower cd on GBTF atleast make it into 35% health lost

(not much else to say about focus, compared to the rest its still is pretty solid)

 

That's all i got, can't think of anymore improvements, leave any suggestions/improvements I would like to see what the sen community thinks off. :D

 

Again these are my suggestions, I would love to see yours, in the thread

 

Woom Woom

Double Saber Action...:cool:

 

2 Years to FTP has hardened my soul and my sentinel

Jedi Covenant (PVE Server)

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The only suggestion that I think sents in general need, is to make "fleetfooted" sentinel wide, and then for all classes, the devs need to figure out something in regards to the amount of slows/mezzes and roots that are not part of the resolve stuff.

 

They don't need anything fancy, sentinels aren't a zerg class, people shouldn't treat them as such, as people seem to be expecting.

Edited by MasterFeign
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Hate to break it to you, but Jedi Enforcer is quite useless, Rebuke can only be boosted up to a total of 30 Seconds, if Rebuke is 10 seconds and each time you are attacked it is refreshed, you can only be attacked 3 times before it cant refresh, so it kinda actually shortens the duration of Rebuke if you take the talent.

 

As for other things, Watchman just needs either Valorous Call or Inspiration to grant max stacks of Juyo and Merciless. Combat needs less RNG more Stacking Procs, and Rage needs more single target damage from Slash, Force Exhaustion, and Zealous Leap.

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I agree that jedi enforcer skill is kinda useless for 50-55 pvp/pve but in general survivabilty stand point for the class having a longer rebuke would be beneficial for lowbie pve/pvp. Although much can be improved/revamped to make the class better, but in the notion of sentinel/marauder survivabilty I would say that having jedi enforcer/cloack of rage in the lower tier would be helpfull for any sents/marra who wish or want more survivalbility than straight up dps.

Alhogugh i agree with your notion of it being kinda useless, it is still better than having 0 defensive boosts.

 

Keep them feedback/ideas coming :D

Edited by yuleiumthegreat
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The only suggestion that I think sents in general need, is to make "fleetfooted" sentinel wide, and then for all classes, the devs need to figure out something in regards to the amount of slows/mezzes and roots that are not part of the resolve stuff.

 

They don't need anything fancy, sentinels aren't a zerg class, people shouldn't treat them as such, as people seem to be expecting.

 

I like the idea of fleetfooted being a general sentinel fore camo skill, and I agree that the devs definitively need to fix resolve in determining between stuns, saps, slows, mezz, and etc. But still i don;t think that that initally will be enough at least for lowbie pvp and maybe pve, mainly due to how the class plays in the early levels (heavily reliant on Master Strike/Ravage).

Edited by yuleiumthegreat
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Even if they made "force camoflauge" an immunity to stuns, mezzes, slows and roots as well, that would be nice.

 

Though I think besides the 2 other things I mentioned, any other changes are overkill.

 

Right now, the DPS of a mara is in a good place, it's just placement and staying on the target that's been a bit difficult, especially since more people are playing classes that cater to those kinds of abilities (madness, vengence, etc).

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Sentinel/Marauders are fine. They have alreadu insane survivability.

 

Sentinel Valor 100, 104 days played.

 

Marauder Valor 100, 44 days played.

 

No they aren´t, worst Def CDs ingame. Oh please don´t call GBTF ingame its just a i want to die CD. Saber Ward, yeah great for Watchmans but otherwise 10s of 25% dmg reduction on a 3minute CD. Rebuke 6s-30s of 20% White DMG Reduction, doesn´t work for DoTs anymore. The Turrets aka Sorcs and so force wined.

 

I think OP goes a bit overboard.

 

Two things that would help alot:

Put a Purge und Force Cloak

Fix the Force Jump Bug --> Seriously if I jump someone I want to land next to him not 10meters behind, infront or to the side

 

Some things one could think about but not implement all at once:

- Let Rebuke reflect a certain percentage of the incoming instead of a fixed number every so and so

- Reduce Saberwards CD to 1.30min, I am looking at the Slingers Shieldprobe there with its 50% uptime

- Change Crippling Throw to something like the last Dreadguard in Asation has, if you heal a target within in the next 10s it gets DMG instead of heal

- Change GBTF to its original State or put it on a 3 min CD and remove the HP Costs from it (you should thenlook at the Saberward point further up) with would put it in line with other Immunity Bubbles

- Give us Cookies:rak_01:

 

And for senslessly showing I have no life and only play swtor all day:

 

Sentinel Valor 100, 248 days played

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No they aren´t, worst Def CDs ingame. Oh please don´t call GBTF ingame its just a i want to die CD. Saber Ward, yeah great for Watchmans but otherwise 10s of 25% dmg reduction on a 3minute CD. Rebuke 6s-30s of 20% White DMG Reduction, doesn´t work for DoTs anymore. The Turrets aka Sorcs and so force wined.

 

I think OP goes a bit overboard.

 

Two things that would help alot:

Put a Purge und Force Cloak

Fix the Force Jump Bug --> Seriously if I jump someone I want to land next to him not 10meters behind, infront or to the side

 

Some things one could think about but not implement all at once:

- Let Rebuke reflect a certain percentage of the incoming instead of a fixed number every so and so

- Reduce Saberwards CD to 1.30min, I am looking at the Slingers Shieldprobe there with its 50% uptime

- Change Crippling Throw to something like the last Dreadguard in Asation has, if you heal a target within in the next 10s it gets DMG instead of heal

- Change GBTF to its original State or put it on a 3 min CD and remove the HP Costs from it (you should thenlook at the Saberward point further up) with would put it in line with other Immunity Bubbles

- Give us Cookies:rak_01:

 

And for senslessly showing I have no life and only play swtor all day:

 

Sentinel Valor 100, 248 days played

 

The 10m force jump disparity has to do with game latency. The falling through the map, is another matter though.

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Hate to break it to you, but Jedi Enforcer is quite useless, Rebuke can only be boosted up to a total of 30 Seconds, if Rebuke is 10 seconds and each time you are attacked it is refreshed, you can only be attacked 3 times before it cant refresh, so it kinda actually shortens the duration of Rebuke if you take the talent.

 

You might want to unscrew your head, blow in it a bit, and screw it back on.

With the Jedi Enforcer talent, Rebuke still lasts up to 30s total, but it lasts for 10s at a time. That is, you don't need to be attacked AS OFTEN for it to keep going as if you hadn't taken the talent. The limit is on the total length of the effect, not on the times it can be refreshed. Also, the increased damage from Rebuke is nice.

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My OP wish list:

 

Sentinel General:

* GCD reduction on all abilities by 1/4

* Defense Chance: increase Melee Parry and Range Deflection to 10%

* Full Focus bar at the beginning of an: operation/war zone/flash point

* Valorous Call: 2 minutes, 30 seconds CD and provides full Focus bar

* Zen (120 seconds CD), Transcendence (120 seconds CD) and Inspiration (180 seconds CD) be stand alone abilities that don't rely on Centering

* Force Sweep requires no primary target to activate

 

Combat changes:

* Displacement: Increase Crippling Throw range [10/20] meter.

* Contemplation: Add [50/100]% chance to finish the CD on Force Camouflage and increase Force Camouflage duration [2/4] seconds when knocked back

* Hand of Justice: Add Dispatch heals you for [1/2/3]% chance of your maximum health, increase Dispatch range [5/5/10] meters

 

Sentinel Focus changes:

* Shii-Cho Form: Add increases Melee Parry and Range Deflection by 3%

* Saber Strength: Add While Shii-Cho Form is active, Slash strikes the target and up to 4 enemies within 5 meters

* Pulse: Add While Shii-Cho Form is active, increases damage [10/20]%, subdues up to 3 enemies within 5 meters of target, reduce Channeling Time by [1.5/3] seconds. At the duration end pulls target to you, does work against targets in cover

* Momentum: Add While Shii-Cho Form is active, Blade Storm strikes up to 4 enemies within 5 meters of target

* Rename Felling Blow to Enhanced Focus. Enhanced Focus: While Shii-Cho Form is active, increase Zealous Leap/Blade Storm/Force Stasis/Crippling Throw [10/20] meters

* Singularity no longer attached to Enhanced Focus. Redo Singularity to: overcharges your body with Kinetic energy for 15 seconds, grants addition 30% armor pentration, converts your next 3 successful melee attacks to kinetic damage

* Swap Ehanced Focus and Agility Training location

* Move Force Exhaustion to T7. Add 20% chance to heal you for 8% of your maximum health

* Add Force Push to T8. Force Push: Deals 1478 - 1784 kinetic damage, knocks the target back several meters and knocks the target down for 2 seconds. Force Push immediately finishes the CD of Force Leap

* Force Health: Increases Melee Parry and Range Deflection by [1/2]%

Edited by Ramtar
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@Ramtar, so then what changes would the other classes get to balance all of this? These are not quality of life changes you are talking about, they are major boosts across the board and that makes no sense. Edited by Kurkina
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@Ramtar, so then what changes would the other classes get to balance all of this? These are not quality of life changes you are talking about, they are major boosts across the board and that makes no sense.

 

He more or less stated in another thread that SWTOR will only have balance correct when Sent/mara is overpowered. His changes are based on that idea.

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He more or less stated in another thread that SWTOR will only have balance correct when Sent/mara is overpowered. His changes are based on that idea.

 

No, my changes are from what I have seen playing this game since Dec '11 as a Sentinel. People forget that the offhand lightsaber is as much offense as defense. Should a Guardian/Shadow withstand a attack from a Sentinel: No, because the offhand would be parrying every one of the Guardian/Shadow attacks, while the main hand would be delivering massive damage.

Edited by Ramtar
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So what you are saying is.. sents should be overpowered cause.. RP? i like ur logic.

much logic

wow

doge approved

 

I'm not saying overpowered. I'm saying level the playing field. Every Sentinel's abilities should be usable in PvP and PvE.

 

* Why do Knight/Warrior have to start off with 0 Focus and build when the 12 other advance class start off with full action bars?

 

* Why do Sage/Sorcerer have 30m attacks on a 6-9 seconds CD and our 4-30m attacks are on 12-18 seconds CD?

 

* Tell me why Inspiration is on a 5 minute CD?

 

* Why are Zen, Transcendence and Inspiration are tied to Centering and not stand along abilities with CDs?

 

* Tell me why Watchman can have a self heal and Combat/Focus can't? Guardian's get a class self heal in 4 piece PvP armor.

 

* Tell me why Sentinel got Twin Saber Throw at level 51 and Guardian got Saber Throw at level 36?

 

* Tell me,again, why GbTF cost 1/2 current health when it ends and Sorcerer's Force Barrier cost no health lost at it's duration end?

 

* Why was Focus setup as Force Sweep being the only massively buffed AOE and other classes' AOE tree have multiply AOE abilities?

 

* Why did Sentinel's get a 30m stun only usable against Droids but not against Humanoids?

Edited by Ramtar
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I'm not saying overpowered. I'm saying level the playing field. Now, if you can give me a rational reason answers on these.

 

* Why do Knight/Warrior have to start off with 0 Focus and build when the rest 12 advance class start off with full action bars?

 

* Why do Sage/Sorcerer have 30m attacks on a 6-9 seconds CD and our 4-30m attacks are on 12-18 seconds CD?

 

* Tell me why Inspiration is on a 5 minute CD?

 

* Why are Zen, Transcendence and Inspiration are tied to Centering and not stand along abilities with CDs?

 

* Tell me why Watchman can have a self heal and Combat/Focus can't? Guardian's get a class self heal in 4 piece PvP armor.

 

* Tell me why Sentinel got Twin Saber Throw at level 51 and Guardian got Saber Throw at level 36?

 

* Tell me,again, why GbTF cost 1/2 current health when it ends and Sorcerer's Force Barrier cost no health lost at it's duration end?

 

* Why was Focus setup as Force Sweep being the only buffed massively buffed AOE and other class AOE tree have multiply AOE abilities?

 

* Why did Sentinel's get a 30m stun only usable against Droids but not against Humanoids?

 

Balance.

 

As for legitimate answers, the devs say that focus is a renewable form of resource. The other forms of resource (Exception is force) have regen rates tied to current amount, meaning that an agent with 0 energy will be useless. At the beginning of the fight, however, he's very useful. Conversely, a sentinel throughout the entire fight will always be able to regen focus at a relatively constant rate, assuming he's in melee range. Again, this is dev answer.

 

Sages are ranged classes, so their ranged (as in, 30m range, technically they're Force) abilities are generally less potent in damage and effects, with shorter cooldowns. Also, since Sage is a ranged AC, they'll be doing more damage from range, so they get more ranged moves more often. If sentinels had spammable 30m range moves, they wouldn't be melee, now, would they? Not to mention that sentinels have all sorts of melee attacks (4m falls within "4m-30m," your language) with 6-9 second cooldowns: Merciless slash with full stacks, Blade Storm, Spammable blade rush, spammable slash...

 

The reason inspiration is on a 5min CD is because of this: Zen provides a DPS boost to you. Zen also provides you healing, if you're watchmen. Inspiration provides I guess a slightly lower DPS boost to you, but also to your WHOLE GROUP, and a heal boost to your WHOLE GROUP. Inspiration is simply better than Zen for most purposes. Zen is now obsolete if Inspiration has no cooldown. It's the same reason that a combat sentinel never uses slash: Blade rush is simply, better in all possible ways.

 

Centering is sort of like Focus: It's a resource. It's design was built around Fury, which was something the Marauder had in an old RPG called KOTOR, of which a lot of design SWTOR takes. If Zen in its current form had a 4 hour cooldown, it would be pretty *********** useless. Thus, the potency of a move needs to align with its cooldown. So, Zen can't have too long of a cooldown. Why is it not a standalone ability? Why don't we make all abilities a stand alone without any sort of focus cost? Resource mechanics add a dimension of complexity to the game, where you need to decide what to divert your resources into achieving. Asking why its tied to centering is like asking why Merciless Slash is tied to Focus or something.

 

The reason watchmen gets healing was because watchmen is a carbon copy clone of Fury Warriors from another game; they're an internal DoT based class. The reason Guardians get self heals is because Vigilance was meant to be a watered down version of Combat and Watchmen, hence its shared emphasis on Master Strike with Combat and its burn DoTs shared with Watchmen. Carnage and Focus have their own, different forms of survivability. Really its because bioware got lazy and either decided to copy, or to mix specs without coming up with something new. But overall, different specs are different.

 

Sentinels originally didn't have Saber Throw. Twin saber throw was added in 2.0, though I would think you know this, so it simply didn't exist before then. 2.0 didn't make very many retroactive changes (that is, changing things from far back). In general, BW only changes new things, without making new changes reflect old content. It made no sense for them to add in a low level ability, because the 8 new abilities for each AC was for 51. That's simply the end of it. Guardians got more jedi utility, what with Throw, Push, better leaps, etc. Sentinels just got more raw damage.... (okay, sentinels a lot of jedi utility too, what with camo, group buffs...); again, different ACs are different.

 

GbtF allows you to stay mobile, attack, and pretty much do anything you want, and also has always had a much shorter cooldown than Barrier does. It was 90 sec at launch, talented to 60 and set bonus'd to 45 if you so choose. Not to mention the time of its creation, barrier didn't exist. Once again, different abilities are different.

 

It's hard to give Warrior-type classes a true AoE spec since warriors are generally single target in the lore... of... everything... It is true that in lore, Shi Cho is balanced, hence it gives both damage and damage reduction... it is general and the first learned easy form... it is also decent against single opponents and good against multiple opponents... I am not making this up based on SWTOR. This is from KOTOR, a decade before SWTOR came out, and I'm pretty sure these 7 classical stances had these properties before KOTOR came out. I guess the devs decided to start with lore when designing the spec, and then worked from their.

 

Because of the abilities properties. Let's look at Disable Droid: No CD, heals target. Let's look at any other long term Mezz like Whirlwind or Concussive Missile: 1 min CD, heals target. Let's look at the Agent's Hack Droid: No CD, heals target. The pure DPS classes get a 1.5 sec cast no resource cost, no CD heals the droid 1 min mezz. Why the operative gets it without being pure DPS is beyond me. Both pure DPS classes have an execute... why the Guardian gets it is beyond me... Some things in this game make little sense...

 

 

I don't understand how you asked random questions.

 

Can you tell me why the grass is green? Why isn't chlorophyll red? Our blood's red...

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I'm not saying overpowered. I'm saying level the playing field. Every Sentinel's abilities should be usable in PvP and PvE.

 

There's only one that isn't and its a CC for a droid in PvE. Which is perfectly fine.

 

* Why do Knight/Warrior have to start off with 0 Focus and build when the 12 other advance class start off with full action bars?

 

This would be cool but I really don't see it being a problem. Guardians are the same way and I haven't heard of them complaining about this being a problem so any issues would stem from different sources.

 

* Why do Sage/Sorcerer have 30m attacks on a 6-9 seconds CD and our 4-30m attacks are on 12-18 seconds CD?

 

Because were a melee class. If you want ranged abilities play a ranged class.

 

* Tell me why Inspiration is on a 5 minute CD?

 

Because it would be over powered otherwise. 15% damage and healing increase on a shorter cool down would be sooooooooooo broken. Having it on a long CD is perfectly fine.

 

* Why are Zen, Transcendence and Inspiration are tied to Centering and not stand along abilities with CDs?

 

Because it's a cool class mechanic that allows players to make choices on what ability to use at the right time and in the right situation. Giving them flat CDs would dumb down game play.

 

* Tell me why Watchman can have a self heal and Combat/Focus can't? Guardian's get a class self heal in 4 piece PvP armor.

 

More self heals would be cool because it's the one thing that 2 of the specs don't have, but do you really want to take something away from one of the classes that is unique to it?

 

* Tell me why Sentinel got Twin Saber Throw at level 51 and Guardian got Saber Throw at level 36?

 

Because it was added later in the game. And who cares? I mean seriously, your not max level until 55 so who cares exactly what abilities you have until then? No class is complete until max level.

 

* Tell me,again, why GbTF cost 1/2 current health when it ends and Sorcerer's Force Barrier cost no health lost at it's duration end?

 

Ehh I agree. The answer you will be given is because they have to "CC" themselves to do it (they can't do anything while it's up) while we can beat on someone, but I agree that the health lost after the ability ends is rather stupid. A defensive CD that hurts you in the end is really isn't that great a CD.

 

* Why was Focus setup as Force Sweep being the only massively buffed AOE and other classes' AOE tree have multiply AOE abilities?

 

Because smash hit like a freak truck on multiple people. Other AoE trees spread the total damage out to multiple abilities and they weren't nearly as bursty and many cost a bit more to sustain compared to smash.

 

* Why did Sentinel's get a 30m stun only usable against Droids but not against Humanoids?

 

Because it's a PvE ability. There doesn't need to be any more CC in the game. I believe scoundrels have it as well so were not they only ones with it.

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I hate those guys who want Sents to be overpowered, try to look at it from the perspective from range DDs or Heals who have succeeded nerfing us into the bottom of PvP (for regular normal players not for that selected handful who make 1% of the pop), they are to stupid to kite, to stupid to despell and most of all realy bad at movement.

 

So we need to give us stuff that in the eyes of the random PuG Turret/Stealther/Healer looks like Fluff but in the Hand of a normal Sent is fluid Gold.

 

Example Ideas: Dont implent all at one time could make Sent to strong, I like being the least played Class^^

 

a purge on Force Cammo, no real hard def cd but hey, pull it in the right moment and you are clear of a sages dots for a moment.

 

Switch out the CD-Times of Saber Ward and GBTF + removing the HP Costs on GBTF as a Spec into Talent in the Top tiers of the Focus tree. Looks like a Nerf but is a buff for all sents who know their game, MOAR SABERWARD;-)

 

Let Dots Renew Rebuke, is really just reverting it back to its original state.

 

Make Pacify more usefull against Classes who relly on yellow dmg, aka flat 90 Precision reduction for Melee/Ranged/Force/Tech. It has a long CD and only an uptime of 6s, not that much of a problem.

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Sentinel/Marauders are fine. They have alreadu insane survivability.

 

Sentinel Valor 100, 104 days played.

 

Marauder Valor 100, 44 days played.

 

Sorry to break it to u but comparing survivabilty with other classes i.e. sorcs/sages, slinger/sinper, scour/opers, jugger/guard the senitinel/marauder defesnive is a joke, besides rebuke everything is is pretty much useless besides being a oh **** option. Saber Ward has a 3 min cd that is insane, GBTF 1 min cd (while removing 50% hp) and with the losing health after GBTF duration, its has now become a suicide button.

 

This change with the GBTF hurt the sentinels surviavitlyty, in which once using it (u can be cc, mezz, and etc) for the duration, and be killed instanty (depending on health remiang after) after it runs out it giving no time for the healer/ or urself to use medpacks to bring urself back up. This has also crushed the crap self heals applied in the watchman tree when ur burns crit, or saber ward (zelous ward point) as the heal will be lost either way after the duration of GBTF, making it a pretty much a pointless def skill and has become a pain in the behind for many sentinels/ marauders. :confused:

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Great ideas guys, i m liking some of the suggestions posted.

 

Obvisoully i do not want or anyone other sents hopefully do not want to make the class or specs overpowered, but these are some basic sents grips i have seen in my pvp/ pve expirences, although some of these gripes aren't that bad, i don't think increasing the dmg output on sents/ mara will do much but create more class imbalances.

 

At this point in time i am quite happy with the current dmg produced by sents (excuding focus/rage they need more single target dps) instead i want to focus towards the survivability and perhaps control the field of play mechanics.

But feel free to post and dmg and etc gripes or concerns u may have, i want to hear all of ur thoughts and suggestions.

 

Keep em comming :D

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