Ultimate Revan's Respect Thread: Not by Me

[Beniboybling]

Drew doesn't compare other EU with Revan, hence why he never answers questions of versus on emails. I'm aware it is not strictly canon, but that doesn't change the fact I will use it in my respect thread. Like I said, he knows more about the character and his limitations then anyone else, and we shouldn't ignore this. Most other versus forums don't ignore it either, besides seemingly this one.

 

Drew rarely does hyperbole and metaphor with Revan, if at all. All his statements are blunt and to the point. Sith Showdown, being an official document on Wizards of the Coast, should be recognized as some form of canon. This is only logical. Besides, the hype itself is immense. Most of the documents there are actually stated to be "online additions" to the sourcebooks already published. Even Wookieepedia, KillerMovies, and ComicVine understands this.

 

There isn't anything open to interpretation with these sources, to be honest. They are directly blunt and state without any implications of anything else. There isn't anything to speculate over. Rather quotes from Kreia or other in-game characters are what is questionable, because hyperbole would be most common in this situation.

 

Members who dismiss Revan's placement as among the most powerful in the mythos, which has been confirmed repeatedly now by various sources, make me chuckle. That is why I spent a year working on the thread, and I am still constantly updating it whenever I find new material. I also work on other threads, covering Revan's raw power, lightsaber skills, etc. With such, I have also created a Darth Malak, Darth Nihilius, and Darth Nyriss Respect Threads. It should be noted that Revan is apparently stronger then all three of these characters (stated to be Darth Nihilus' superior in the Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan novel). He is ultimately, the "Prodigal Knight."

As I said, I take no issue with you using them in your respect thread. I was merely pointing out the fact that the entire thread does not consist of canon sources as you claimed, and that those that don't shouldn't be treated as such.

 

Making very clear here that Wizards of the Coast, regardless of how hyped up they are have no canonical authority whatsoever, only WofC books validated by Lucas Licensing should be considered canonical. Given that source is not from a sourcebook, I highly doubt it has the Lucas Licensing sticker and it is certainly not in the Holocron.

 

And given that, as I said, they are open to interpretation and should not be taken at face value. Take this for example:

 

"...unlike Revan or Bane, he [Theron Shan] isn’t one of the most powerful individuals in the [star Wars] universe."

 

"As much as I loved writing about all-powerful Sith [Darth Bane & Vitiate] and Jedi [Revan]..."

 

-- Drew Karpyshyn

 

The first quote, is Drew's opinion, which is no more valid that anyone else's given it its based on canonical feats that we all have access to. And its certainly not an opinion I share, but perhaps he is just casting a very wide net.

 

The second is exercising hyperbole, referring to Drew's enjoyment of writing characters who don't have uber-force powers, but they are not canonical and not true either. Clearly Revan is not all-powerful, no one is.

 

But because its not canon, we don't have to treat these as facts, but opinions.

 

The Star Wars universe has created some truly vile dark side villains. Have you ever wondered what would happen if the most powerful Sith Lords [Darth Sidious, Darth Caedus, and Darth Revan] duked it out for supremacy of the galaxy?

 

―Wizards of the Coast: Sith Showdown

 

This is simply not true either, pratically invalidated by Drew's own Revan novel which proves Revan even in his most powerful form is simply unable to compete with top tier Sith Lords i.e. the Sith Emperor.

 

Again, I don't fault you for including these specific quotes in your respect thread, to each his own, but we cannot pass them off as canonical sources. They are not, they are not facts, and should not be treated as such.

 

P.S. Perhaps you'd like to provide the quote that states Revan to be superior to Darth Nihilus? That seems unlikely.

 

P.P.S You may chuckle, but I often find that those who dedicate themselves solely to a specific era often reach erroneous and inflated conclusions concerning that era, I suggest you expand the scope of your research. Because in comparison to other powerful members of the Star Wars Universe, Revan fails to make the top 10.

[Beniboybling]

But there is! You may not know but people on this forum need to make absolutely sure that they know Revans place otherwise the hordes will descend upon us and usher in the end of the forum!! The fanboys will be unstoppable! I mean can you imagine the burden it would be on us -the people that know better- if others went around believing Revan is the best and most powerful Sith, spreading those lies! Even though he SO clearly isn't- I mean we can't just ignore them! They would force us to read the trash that they spew! To go to every thread with his name on it and argue with them! To spend hours upon hours of going around in circles only to do so again in another thread! Someone would have to! Let us not forget the Dark Times..

 

But don't worry! There are a select few that will give those fanboys a good beatin- er, educating!...Those poor ignorant fools. They know not what they do.. Thank the force we have such people in our forum to make sure those morons don't ruin this respectful place!

 

-KOTOR II QUOTE-

 

 

PS: Drew Karpyshyn is a horrible stupid man.

 

Never let go~

Hmmm, not sure if sarcastic, or serious.

 

I'll go for serious.

[Airmo]

Hmmm, not sure if sarcastic, or serious.

 

I'll go for serious.

 

I've always liked you Beni~

 

"...unlike Revan or Bane, he [Theron Shan] isn’t one of the most powerful individuals in the [star Wars] universe."

 

"As much as I loved writing about all-powerful Sith [Darth Bane & Vitiate] and Jedi [Revan]..."

 

-- Drew Karpyshyn

 

The first quote, is Drew's opinion, which is no more valid that anyone else's given it its based on canonical feats that we all have access to. And its certainly not an opinion I share, but perhaps he is just casting a very wide net.

 

If you don't believe Revan to be one of the most powerful why is he sitting on a list in the thread you literally named "The REAL Most Powerful Revisted"? That isn't sarcasm by the way I'm genuinely confused.

[Selenial]

Yes, Karpyshyn is an idiot.

 

He has incredible envy that Obsidian was chosen for kotor 2 to make a darker story, so he calls the exile "a minor character" and hypes his as much as possible.

[Airmo]

Yes, Karpyshyn is an idiot.

 

He has incredible envy that Obsidian was chosen for kotor 2 to make a darker story, so he calls the exile "a minor character" and hypes his as much as possible.

 

 

Yes I'm sure he does.

[Beniboybling]

I've always liked you Beni~

 

If you don't believe Revan to be one of the most powerful why is he sitting on a list in the thread you literally named "The REAL Most Powerful Revisted"? That isn't sarcasm by the way I'm genuinely confused.

I'm flattered.

 

I certainly believe Revan to be one of the most powerful Jedi, but not one of the powerful Force Users (Jedi, Sith and everyone inbetween), as Drew claims. This is the complete index by the way, notice Revan is not on the first list.

 

And honestly, if I ever made the remark that X was one of the most powerful individuals in the Star Wars universe I'm most certainly be referring to someone in the top 5, Revan isn't even in the top 10. So you see my concern.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

 

Yes I'm sure he does.

LOL!

 

Anyway people break it up. At the very least lets agree Revan is not on level with Sidious & Caedus.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Look Selenial, Revan IS COMPARABLE to Sidious or Caedus, because that is how Star Wars Legends work.

 

Example to prove my point: Yoda facing Bane Spirit is Morraband (Koriban)

 

Struggle is intense, Same with Exar Kun and Luke and countless examples which state that SW characters are comparable to other SW characters and timeframe doesnt matter really.

 

Your trying to use benchmarks, the benchmark that counts is FORCE POWER.

 

Revan is definetly on-lvl with Caedus if not more, same with Sideous.

 

Sorry, but it had to be done.

[Airmo]

I'm flattered.

 

I certainly believe Revan to be one of the most powerful Jedi, but not one of the powerful Force Users (Jedi, Sith and everyone inbetween), as Drew claims. This is the complete index by the way, notice Revan is not on the first list.

 

And honestly, if I ever made the remark that X was one of the most powerful individuals in the Star Wars universe I'm most certainly be referring to someone in the top 5, Revan isn't even in the top 10. So you see my concern.

 

Ah okay now I see, my mistake then. And I wouldn't say Revan being one of the most powerful individuals is false, I mean yes he holds no candle to the likes of the others names on the most powerful force users list, but still just because he isn't in the top 10 doesn't mean he's not one of the most powerful in a huge universe like Star Wars. Casting a wide net as you say.

 

LOL!

 

Anyway people break it up. At the very least lets agree Revan is not on level with Sidious & Caedus.

 

I agree, though I don't know much about Caedus, all I know is he fought Luke and didn't get destroyed or something like that.

[Beniboybling]

Ah okay now I see, my mistake then. And I wouldn't say Revan being one of the most powerful individuals is false, I mean yes he holds no candle to the likes of the others names on the most powerful force users list, but still just because he isn't in the top 10 doesn't mean he's not one of the most powerful in a huge universe like Star Wars. Casting a wide net as you say.

 

I agree, though I don't know much about Caedus, all I know is he fought Luke and didn't get destroyed or something like that.

Fair enough, but I guess that's the intepretative aspect I'm talking about here.

 

Well if your interested in reading over 2000 words of crit () you might find my comparison of Caedus and the Sith Emperor interesting - a comparison that places Caedus firmly in the top bracket.

[Selenial]

 

Yes I'm sure he does.

Care to explain in his latest hour long interview he calls Surik a minor character then? Or how he said, when berated about his butchering of Surik, that he played Kotor 2 through, (having never played it before due to feeling like someone was writing fan fiction about his own work) once, and just went off that? No comics, no sourcebooks, no MULTIPLE playthroughs to see every outcome (because there are a lot).... one playthrough.

 

The guy's pathetic when it comes to any characters that are not his, this isn't the first time we've seen it too.

[MarcheseAMM]

As I said, I take no issue with you using them in your respect thread. I was merely pointing out the fact that the entire thread does not consist of canon sources as you claimed, and that those that don't shouldn't be treated as such.

 

Making very clear here that Wizards of the Coast, regardless of how hyped up they are have no canonical authority whatsoever, only WofC books validated by Lucas Licensing should be considered canonical. Given that source is not from a sourcebook, I highly doubt it has the Lucas Licensing sticker and it is certainly not in the Holocron.

 

And given that, as I said, they are open to interpretation and should not be taken at face value. Take this for example:

 

"...unlike Revan or Bane, he [Theron Shan] isn’t one of the most powerful individuals in the [star Wars] universe."

 

"As much as I loved writing about all-powerful Sith [Darth Bane & Vitiate] and Jedi [Revan]..."

 

-- Drew Karpyshyn

 

The first quote, is Drew's opinion, which is no more valid that anyone else's given it its based on canonical feats that we all have access to. And its certainly not an opinion I share, but perhaps he is just casting a very wide net.

 

The second is exercising hyperbole, referring to Drew's enjoyment of writing characters who don't have uber-force powers, but they are not canonical and not true either. Clearly Revan is not all-powerful, no one is.

 

But because its not canon, we don't have to treat these as facts, but opinions.

 

The Star Wars universe has created some truly vile dark side villains. Have you ever wondered what would happen if the most powerful Sith Lords [Darth Sidious, Darth Caedus, and Darth Revan] duked it out for supremacy of the galaxy?

 

―Wizards of the Coast: Sith Showdown

 

This is simply not true either, pratically invalidated by Drew's own Revan novel which proves Revan even in his most powerful form is simply unable to compete with top tier Sith Lords i.e. the Sith Emperor.

 

Again, I don't fault you for including these specific quotes in your respect thread, to each his own, but we cannot pass them off as canonical sources. They are not, they are not facts, and should not be treated as such.

 

Ah, so then it lies to interruptions of what and what isn't canonical. Seemingly, every forum has their own rules over this, and I structured mine based off of KillerMovies, since that is where I spend my time. Over there, Drew quotes are considered canonical. Same goes for ComicVine, Wookieepedia, and various other smaller forums.

 

Meanwhile, Wizards of the Coast seemingly follows a similar path. Lots of the information on that site is *official* additions to their own guides. The authors of such pages are also then, of course, the writers of the sourcebooks. If you look at the Wookieepedia page for reference, you will see: "Background information given in the RPG sourcebooks such as biographies, stories, blueprints, etc. is proper canon." So, I will be including it, for majority of the population accept the quote as canonical. But yes I agree, that particular quote has been the most controversial in my respect thread. (And in case you were wondering, I don't put Revan with them either).

 

I don't care for your personal opinions on where Revan stands among the mythos. That is completely irrelevant. I include it because it fits the canonical standards of my own and various others. If you don't like it, don't use it. The point of that thread was to include nearly every Revan quote in existence, and I can safely say that after a year of work, I am almost done.

 

Now, I rather not continue this debate on canon, I think I have well established why I have those quotes in my respect thread. If you have any questions on anything else, let me know though.

 

P.S. Perhaps you'd like to provide the quote that states Revan to be superior to Darth Nihilus? That seems unlikely.

 

"It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater then that of anyone else she had ever met."

―Meetra Surik (Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan)

 

 

Sorry, but it had to be done.

And I thought I was the only one to use this video!

 

Also, you guys reminded me. I have a quote in my respect thread proving Revan is among the Top Jedi, but I never for some reason placed it in the accolades section. I was reluctant to add it because it required context, but I will include it anyway. Scroll down to the "Tutaminis" section of the thread to see where I am getting it from.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revan-respect-thread/95278/

[Airmo]

Care to explain in his latest hour long interview he calls Surik a minor character then? Or how he said, when berated about his butchering of Surik, that he played Kotor 2 through, (having never played it before due to feeling like someone was writing fan fiction about his own work) once, and just went off that? No comics, no sourcebooks, no MULTIPLE playthroughs to see every outcome (because there are a lot).... one playthrough.

 

The guy's pathetic when it comes to any characters that are not his, this isn't the first time we've seen it too.

 

Haven't listened to the interview so I can't comment on the minor character thing. Are there comics featuring Surik? Plenty of Star Wars writers don't go through every piece of information, they are given little bit of info and go off that he isn't the only one. And really? Your gonna bash the guy for not playing it more than once? Please the guy is older, working on his new books and has a family he doesn't have the time to play through an hours long game multiple times just to satisfy you, hell he didn't even have to play once but he did it anyway, I'm guessing to see where he went wrong.

 

The cold never bothered me anyway~

[Selenial]

Haven't listened to the interview so I can't comment on the minor character thing. Are there comics featuring Surik? Plenty of Star Wars writers don't go through every piece of information, they are given little bit of info and go off that he isn't the only one. And really? Your gonna bash the guy for not playing it more than once? Please the guy is older, working on his new books and has a family he doesn't have the time to play through an hours long game multiple times just to satisfy you, hell he didn't even have to play once but he did it anyway, I'm guessing to see where he went wrong.

 

The cold never bothered me anyway~

 

It's called researching before you write.

 

People who write PHD's spend years researching, Drew was going to make a fortune off this book, he should have at least tried.

 

Also, you can finish Kotor 2, all the main storylines and stuff in about 8 hours.

 

And yes, actually, most Star Wars writers who are going to include a character they didn't create do research on them, a lot of research.

 

There's no excuse for his butchering of a character who's simply more powerful than his own.

 

Also, quoting disney movies written about and for children doesn't exactly help convey a sense of Maturity. Which I guess actually makes sense, because only a child would be so blind as to take a look at one era and feel they have the ability to compare it to everyone else.

[Beniboybling]

Haven't listened to the interview so I can't comment on the minor character thing. Are there comics featuring Surik? Plenty of Star Wars writers don't go through every piece of information, they are given little bit of info and go off that he isn't the only one. And really? Your gonna bash the guy for not playing it more than once? Please the guy is older, working on his new books and has a family he doesn't have the time to play through an hours long game multiple times just to satisfy you, hell he didn't even have to play once but he did it anyway, I'm guessing to see where he went wrong.

 

The cold never bothered me anyway~

Considering the amount of research I put into my own fanficion, I'd expect better from Drew. Its his job for gosh darns sakes, if he doesn't have the time to properly research his novels, then he shouldn't be writing them. This wouldn't be an issue if the Surik were not so poorly represented, and if the novel were not riddled with canonical inconsistencies. And funnily enough, considering we are the customer, his audience, its absolutely his job to satisfy us.

 

That said I think it was fanboyism for his own character that led to the Exile being potrayed the way she was, clearly he didn't have any respect for the character and if he played through KOTOR II just once he'd know she is way more powerful than portrayed in the novel. But he pushed for the whole "Revan the Hero" trope and there we go.

 

Anyway, I think I'll make time to listen to this interview later, I'd like to here Drew's excuses for this poor piece of work.

[Airmo]

It's called researching before you write.

 

People who write PHD's spend years researching, Drew was going to make a fortune off this book, he should have at least tried.

 

Also, you can finish Kotor 2, all the main storylines and stuff in about 8 hours.

 

And yes, actually, most Star Wars writers who are going to include a character they didn't create do research on them, a lot of research.

 

There's no excuse for his butchering of a character who's simply more powerful than his own.

 

Also, quoting disney movies written about and for children doesn't exactly help convey a sense of Maturity. Which I guess actually makes sense, because only a child would be so blind as to take a look at one era and feel they have the ability to compare it to everyone else.

 

It's called not everyone does it, he isn't the only writer that hasn't your only so focused on him because your a fan of this particular character.

 

PHD's are a bit different then a Star Wars prequel novel to an MMO and fortune? Really? a fortune..?? Okay.

 

Care to back that up? And define "a lot". That still means there are some that don't.

 

She never was, even before the book, in my opinion. /awaits insults

 

Plenty of people like stuff meant "for kids" all age groups and anyone that looks down on someone that does like a movie like that is showing real maturity huh?

Edited July 4, 2014 by Airmo

[MarcheseAMM]

Alright, updated the respect thread enough to bump this thread.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revan-respect-thread/95278/

Total revision of old content, and added Shadow of Revan material.