Kaggath Battlegrounds

[Silenceo]

Nine pages of a Word document and I'm done with my faction run down! I think. It's exactly as I envisioned it, I love the concept and I'm excited for it to premiere!

 

I TOTALLY want to do a bracket for this tournament! That would be sick! But we would have to know what Kaggaths would be when and against who in advance, which isn't how it's worked in the past.

 

As for who I think will go first.... I'm just gonna guess and say Silenceo vs. Aurbere.

 

Interesting...Why do you offer me as a lamb to the slaughter? Though, I really do wonder why you would pair the newby with the king of the Kaggath? Instant Elimination? Challenge Accepted. Joking aside, I like the new avatar and color. Rather fits your new faction I think.

 

As for the brackets merely do something such as, note, not my predictions merely an example:

 

Round 1 Matchup Estimates: Aurbere vs LadyKulvax, Beniboybling Vs Silenceo, Tunewalker Vs Warren Stride, Karadron vs Star Squirrel.

Round 1 Predicted Winners: Aurbere, Silenceo *biased!*, Warren Stride, and Star Squirrel.

Round 2 Matchup Estimates: Aurbere vs Warren Stride, Silenceo vs Star Squirrel

Round 2 Predicted Winners: Warren Stride, Silenceo

Round 3 Prediction: Silenceo Vs Warren Stride

Round 3 Predicted Winner: Warren Stride

 

Essentially what I mean is who do you feel would be a good match for who and which of the ones do you feel would win without having a full debate yet, and go from there. Remember, this example is totally not what I think will happen, so don't go assassinating me for it!

Edited June 22, 2014 by Silenceo

[Warren-Stride]

Interesting...Why do you offer me as a lamb to the slaughter? Though, I really do wonder why you would pair the newby with the king of the Kaggath? Instant Elimination? Challenge Accepted. Joking aside, I like the new avatar and color. Rather fits your new faction I think.

 

As for the brackets merely do something such as, note, not my predictions merely an example:

 

Round 1 Matchup Estimates: Aurbere vs LadyKulvax, Beniboybling Vs Silenceo, Tunewalker Vs Warren Stride, Karadron vs Star Squirrel.

Round 1 Predicted Winners: Aurbere, Silenceo *biased!*, Warren Stride, and Star Squirrel.

Round 2 Matchup Estimates: Aurbere vs Warren Stride, Silenceo vs Star Squirrel

Round 2 Predicted Winners: Warren Stride, Silenceo

Round 3 Prediction: Silenceo Vs Warren Stride

Round 3 Predicted Winner: Warren Stride

 

Essentially what I mean is who do you feel would be a good match for who and which of the ones do you feel would win without having a full debate yet, and go from there. Remember, this example is totally not what I think will happen, so don't go assassinating me for it!

 

Ah, shucks, stop it you! Flattery will get you.... somewhere, maybe, actually.

 

Well I can't speak for who would be a good match for who because I have not done the math and sneaky stuff to determine whose faction is whose and whatnot. So any bracket like that I made would be based on which debater I think would win, rather than which faction I think would win, and that's not exactly constructive.

[tunewalker]

Interesting...Why do you offer me as a lamb to the slaughter? Though, I really do wonder why you would pair the newby with the king of the Kaggath? Instant Elimination? Challenge Accepted. Joking aside, I like the new avatar and color. Rather fits your new faction I think.

 

As for the brackets merely do something such as, note, not my predictions merely an example:

 

Round 1 Matchup Estimates: Aurbere vs LadyKulvax, Beniboybling Vs Silenceo, Tunewalker Vs Warren Stride, Karadron vs Star Squirrel.

Round 1 Predicted Winners: Aurbere, Silenceo *biased!*, Warren Stride, and Star Squirrel.

Round 2 Matchup Estimates: Aurbere vs Warren Stride, Silenceo vs Star Squirrel

Round 2 Predicted Winners: Warren Stride, Silenceo

Round 3 Prediction: Silenceo Vs Warren Stride

Round 3 Predicted Winner: Warren Stride

 

Essentially what I mean is who do you feel would be a good match for who and which of the ones do you feel would win without having a full debate yet, and go from there. Remember, this example is totally not what I think will happen, so don't go assassinating me for it!

 

Why do I keep getting thrown into this, I dont even have word if my faction is needed, my participation as anything but non participant is by no means official yet, and we havent heard from Karadron for a while now. Both me and Karadron might not even be in this, and you totally left out Selenial why?

[StarSquirrel]

Aand haven't heard terribly much from Star

 

I'm here, been here, will probably be here till I die or some black hole rips our galaxy apart or some such incident...

 

Yeah sometimes I get busy with work and can't be on till 12-3am EST which means everyone but Silenceo is sleeping or at work or some such thing. I tend to read and lurk till I have something to say.

[tunewalker]

I'm here, been here, will probably be here till I die or some black hole rips our galaxy apart or some such incident...

 

Yeah sometimes I get busy with work and can't be on till 12-3am EST which means everyone but Silenceo is sleeping or at work or some such thing. I tend to read and lurk till I have something to say.

 

Ya i have noticed that, for a while i was sitting there going star is the police on this part since every post i saw from you for a while was you telling some one that their post belonged someplace else lol

[Silenceo]

As I said, that was merely an example not my thoughts of how it would happen. No offense was meant to you or Sel. As for the being online part Star, aye, people tend to sleep whenever you or I want to chat!

 

Star, do not forget the power of the lurker! It can decide the fate of wars...Or even a Kaggath...

 

Strider, when it comes to figuring out the factions, this might be the inexperience talking, but how I think I have figured the factions, and they could be totally wrong, I watch for anything that someone says near Kaggath faction formation for hints. Then I think of how they behave around subjects, and what their preferences are, what I have seen them do in the past. From simply observing I am sure that nearly all of you have figured out my faction is composed of droids of one type or another, though I bet that Aurbere has managed to guess a major portion of it by the process of elimination, as well as my droid-forum personality. It is ones like LK though that talk with such confidence concerning their forces yet the pieces do not add up, that begins to worry me. Makes me think, what am I missing? Did I account for all of the leaders? Do the troops fit there? What ships would those leaders have access to?

 

Those sort of questions helped me to figure out the majority of the factions, such as the fact that I know from past experience that Karadron is a huge Mandalorian fan which leads me to believe that those are his units. Though I can not be 100% sure, the hints point that direction.

 

Put all of this together with the basic things such as how people regard certain units such as in the Practical or For Show thread and you can be pretty sure that LK has Venators due to the fact she has all of the sources to back them up and her apparent love for them.

 

None of what I have said should be a surprise since these are the obvious ones, but I do believe you are selling your deductive reasoning short Strider, after all, no one else was able to construct a force such as the Droid Supremacy that was able to do what it did. You may no longer be a droid, but I bet you still have the ability to calculate like one.

 

If I did reveal any facts or thoughts that are thought to be kept secret that are thought to not be common knowledge, I apologize. As I have said before, I have a distaste for smoke and mirrors and prefer to state what I mean. If any of this has offended someone, I am willing to edit out the parts that have done so.

 

As a closing STATEMENT I believe that as far as the past Kaggaths have gone compared to this one, this one appears to be the most varied, most diabolically setup out, and the most capable of holding long term debates rather than arguing over the same point for multiple pages. With that said, I can not wait for this to get started, Newby or not, I am prepared.

 

After Thought: Oh, and since Sel and Aurbere have stated who they support, I think I have calculated who I will support once this gets started, given that I am not facing them of course. Supporting: Warren-Stride, CN1N0, and Star Squirrel. This is if I am not against them in that round of course, but these three are the ones that I shall attempt to support if they have a somewhat even footing. I will not try and alter the facts if they are against them, but rather support them with what I have when I can, even if it is merely a drop in the ocean. In most cases however I will try to supply a somewhat balanced support between the two sides, but I can not always remain unbiased.

 

Side Note: I am also convinced that you all already know I am a terrible debater, due to fits of fan boy fueled rage at times as i demonstrated in that Fleet Battle those months ago. Still a little shocked I didn't get DQ'd or something, and somehow managed to pull out a win when I thought it obvious that I lacked enough information to show a solid victory or even a solid fight considering the facts against me. *Dang it Beni, you and your ability to bring up the obscure facts!* Debating skills aside, even if I get frustrated at times or seem to lose my temper due to little things *at times I can get really angry when people misinterpret facts...not even sure why...* I still enjoy a good debate and hope you guys can help me to learn to become a more...civil...debater when I have a personal stake in the argument. If I do lose my temper a few too many times, I apologize before hand and will attempt to keep it in check much better this time around. Who knows, perhaps this Droid can learn new programming.

 

QUERY: Why oh why must I type up large posts when I am only half awake...?

Edited June 22, 2014 by Silenceo

[LadyKulvax]

It is ones like LK though that talk with such confidence concerning their forces yet the pieces do not add up, that begins to worry me. Makes me think, what am I missing? Did I account for all of the leaders? Do the troops fit there? What ships would those leaders have access to?

 

Oh you'll see, you are missing quite a lot actually.

 

All jokes aside, I am not assuming that i have the most epic faction here, I am simply very happy and feeling quite accomplished with what I have mustered.

Edited June 22, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Aurbere]

OK, one of you is going to hate me, but I have to say something here.

 

Who has Lomi Plo? Why are we allowing her? She's flipping OP. And yes, I'm pulling that card out for very good reasons. Anyone agree, or do I have to prove my point?

[Silenceo]

OK, one of you is going to hate me, but I have to say something here.

 

Who has Lomi Plo? Why are we allowing her? She's flipping OP. And yes, I'm pulling that card out for very good reasons. Anyone agree, or do I have to prove my point?

 

I do not much of her other than what is stated on the wiki, and we all know they leave things out. If you can enlighten us, please do! You always did have a knack for giving more details than those things Mr. Historian. *not sarcasm in case you thought it was*

 

Side Note: Are you referring to her ability to rapidly drain energy from devices such as lightsabers, droids, and even star ships? If that is the case I agree, and if she is allowed, I vote for only pre-nest. She was still strong then, but not able to pull off her most heinous feats.

 

After Thought: Not I.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Silenceo

[Aurbere]

I do not much of her other than what is stated on the wiki, and we all know they leave things out. If you can enlighten us, please do! You always did have a knack for giving more details than those things Mr. Historian. *not sarcasm in case you thought it was*

 

Side Note: Are you referring to her ability to rapidly drain energy from devices such as lightsabers, droids, and even star ships? If that is the case I agree, and if she is allowed, I vote for only pre-nest. She was still strong then, but not able to pull off her most heinous feats.

 

After Thought: Not I.

 

I actually wasn't referring to her ability to drain energy, more her abilities in general.

 

I'll start off with this: She caught Luke Skywalker in her Force Web. He was incapable of breaking through the attack without distracting her. He was only delaying the inevitable.

 

I'll post more if you want.

 

Edit: And thanks for the compliment.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Aurbere

[Silenceo]

I actually wasn't referring to her ability to drain energy, more her abilities in general.

 

I'll start off with this: She caught Luke Skywalker in her Force Web. He was incapable of breaking through the attack without distracting her. He was only delaying the inevitable.

 

I'll post more if you want.

 

Edit: And thanks for the compliment.

 

Your welcome! Best to not be negative all the time and give credit where its due.

 

As for the fact she was able to detain Luke so easily...This is rather far along his career isn't it? Approximately what, 30 A.B.Y? Troubling indeed... How was she comparatively before she became a Kilik human hybrid? Like when she was still on the Vong ship.

 

As for the more information, I always love to know as much as I can about my opposition though if it bothers the other viewers I would be alright if it was by PM. Though, then it wouldn't be being used to convince Beni to make a change...I leave that up to you, and I won't force you to give me information, merely request it. Though, since you love history so much, I do wonder why you haven't used the Jedi Historian characters in any of these things that I have seen. I am sure they were quite knowledgeable and could of been useful. If fragile...

Edited June 24, 2014 by Silenceo

[Aurbere]

Your welcome! Best to not be negative all the time and give credit where its due.

 

As for the fact she was able to detain Luke so easily...This is rather far along his career isn't it? Approximately what, 30 A.B.Y? Troubling indeed... How was she comparatively before she became a Kilik human hybrid? Like when she was still on the Vong ship.

 

As for the more information, I always love to know as much as I can about my opposition though if it bothers the other viewers I would be alright if it was by PM. Though, then it wouldn't be being used to convince Beni to make a change...I leave that up to you, and I won't force you to give me information, merely request it. Though, since you love history so much, I do wonder why you haven't used the Jedi Historian characters in any of these things that I have seen. I am sure they were quite knowledgeable and could of been useful. If fragile...

 

36 ABY is when it happened. As far as Lomi Plo pre-Dark Queen is concerned, I don't know much about her, but I'm almost certain that Dark Queen Lomi Plo is her prime.

 

Another thing I found, she easily bested Jacen Solo in lightsaber combat. Granted he disarmed her of one blade in a blade lock (though she was primarily focused on Mara Jade, whom she nearly killed with deflected debris), but her second blade went straight through his gut.

 

Anyway, I don't really choose Jedi Historian characters simply because I haven't really thought of them. I don't think they would be suited to this sort of tournament.

[Silenceo]

36 ABY is when it happened. As far as Lomi Plo pre-Dark Queen is concerned, I don't know much about her, but I'm almost certain that Dark Queen Lomi Plo is her prime.

 

Another thing I found, she easily bested Jacen Solo in lightsaber combat. Granted he disarmed her of one blade in a blade lock (though she was primarily focused on Mara Jade, whom she nearly killed with deflected debris), but her second blade went straight through his gut.

 

Anyway, I don't really choose Jedi Historian characters simply because I haven't really thought of them. I don't think they would be suited to this sort of tournament.

 

*Whistle* Yeah, in her prime I definitely think she should not be usable. Before then maybe...But being able to defeat both Jacen AND Mara Jade? As well as later essentially trap Luke? If it was around 10 ABY sure, but 36 ABY...No. Luke is already a pretty huge power house and he is banned by that point, no reason that Lomi Plo who could fight him relatively evenly at that point should be allowed.

 

As for the Historians... Are you kidding? They would win the entire war! They could call a Historian Conference, and broad cast it to all of the enemy channels, lulling them into madness! Jedi History is not for the faint of heart... Joking aside, I am sure if you had one on your team you could likely access a large amount of the jedi's collective knowledge on people and events such as those surrounding Exar Kun or Reven. *shrug* Just thought I would ask why, not trying to twist your arm to have you send a historian to a battle field.

[Warren-Stride]

If we're looking at questionable leaders, I suggest we reevaluate:

 

Darth Vader, Durge, Exar Kun, Lumiya, Mace Windu, and Revan

 

My point being, lots of leaders, and basically all Force Users on the list, have had epic moments of power that seem OP. We can't pick and choose which are allowed and which aren't. The rules did not say that Lomi Plo was banned, so it's unfair to ban her after someone has already planned on having her in their faction. If she was such a threat, we should have banned her in the rules. To ban her now would just be an act of "oh she's powerful so I don't want my opponent to have her."

Edited June 24, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Aurbere]

*Whistle* Yeah, in her prime I definitely think she should not be usable. Before then maybe...But being able to defeat both Jacen AND Mara Jade? As well as later essentially trap Luke? If it was around 10 ABY sure, but 36 ABY...No. Luke is already a pretty huge power house and he is banned by that point, no reason that Lomi Plo who could fight him relatively evenly at that point should be allowed.

 

As for the Historians... Are you kidding? They would win the entire war! They could call a Historian Conference, and broad cast it to all of the enemy channels, lulling them into madness! Jedi History is not for the faint of heart... Joking aside, I am sure if you had one on your team you could likely access a large amount of the jedi's collective knowledge on people and events such as those surrounding Exar Kun or Reven. *shrug* Just thought I would ask why, not trying to twist your arm to have you send a historian to a battle field.

 

Well, Mara wasn't in the fight proper, but, yeah, doing what she did is most impressive.

 

One final thing on her. It is possible that she was using the Force to hinder Luke Skywalker's movements. Now I would have to do more research to confirm this, but I am about 90% sure that it was her.

 

Anyway, I love Jedi Historians, but they are a bit, as you said, fragile. Still, maybe that's something to think about for next time. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Silenceo]

If we're looking at questionable leaders, I suggest we reevaluate:

 

Darth Vader, Durge, Exar Jun, Lumiya, Mace Windu, and Revan

 

I was thinking of Durge as well since it took being thrown into a sun to defeat him...And even then there are rumors he survived... Hell, he has survived liquidification! That is one hell of a durability feat!

 

As for Darth Vader I am not so sure, yeah he is incredibly powerful, but he does still have many counters.

 

Exar Kun was a revolutionary and quite good at what he did, but the missing piece is that there do not seem to be many good opponents to compare him against in his time peroid that would allow us to judge exactly how deadly he was compared to top tiers like Yoda.

 

Lumiya, the Dark Lady, been forever since I read about her though she never really struck me as overly powerful as much as extremely deceptive, cunning, and out of the ordinary. Most of her combat advantages comes from her Light Whip if I remember correctly. I also do not recall her defeating Luke later in the galactic time line.

 

Mace Windu, he is quite incredible and his ability with the lightsaber amplifies greatly the stronger the dark side he is facing...Though he is still not quite invincible since he tends to not rely on force powers outside of himself such as speed.

 

I think we are mature enough to let Revan through, he has been through enough wars of flame already! We have already concluded that he was gifted for his time and about equal to some of the PT jedi, but as has been said multiple times, he is not the beat all end all that people tend to figure. I have witnessed many of you debate that very topic here!

 

Back to Lomi Plo, I think it would be fair then that we try and think of ways that she could be beaten by the others that are chosen, because if there is even a 30% or so chance that another on the list can win 1 vs 1 I think that would be sufficient to allow for tactical options to fill the rest meaning that she would be allowed. However, if none of the other participants can come even close to that...Something will need to be done, be it pre-nest version instead, or if it was as simple as she was disallowed her force net ability. Either of the options would still leave her quite powerful, but it would still allow for interesting debates other than *Lomi Plo auto wins the fight due to having defeated Luke Skywalker near his Prime* That is all I want to avoid. You know such things are no fun.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Silenceo

[Aurbere]

If we're looking at questionable leaders, I suggest we reevaluate:

 

Darth Vader, Durge, Exar Kun, Lumiya, Mace Windu, and Revan

 

My point being, lots of leaders, and basically all Force Users on the list, have had epic moments of power that seem OP. We can't pick and choose which are allowed and which aren't. The rules did not say that Lomi Plo was banned, so it's unfair to ban her after someone has already planned on having her in their faction. If she was such a threat, we should have banned her in the rules. To ban her now would just be an act of "oh she's powerful so I don't want my opponent to have her."

 

Don't take offense to my position on it.

[Warren-Stride]

Don't take offense to my position on it.

 

I didn't, I'm sorry if it appeared that way. Though I would like to extend the same advice to you.

[tunewalker]

Honestly I dont think Lomi is any more powerful then Exar Kun and while she beat Jaina, I dont believe Jaina was in her prime either at that point I could be wrong though.

 

Honestly I think its a wait and see.

[Aurbere]

I didn't, I'm sorry if it appeared that way. Though I would like to extend the same advice to you.

 

I didn't take offense either.

 

However, there is one problem with your argument. All of the names you mentioned have counters. In fact, I've already completed my anti-Mace Windu argument. Lomi Plo doesn't have an effective counter aside from months of pre-preparation after learning how she operates. Luke didn't clear his mind of doubt and fear for teh lulz, he did it because he absolutely had to do it.

[tunewalker]

I didn't take offense either.

 

However, there is one problem with your argument. All of the names you mentioned have counters. In fact, I've already completed my anti-Mace Windu argument. Lomi Plo doesn't have an effective counter aside from months of pre-preparation after learning how she operates. Luke didn't clear his mind of doubt and fear for teh lulz, he did it because he absolutely had to do it.

 

Which right there tells you one of Lomi's counters. There are characters with better mental defenses then Luke and those who dont have as much fears or doubts. Luke as the first of the new and the Grand Master seems to be in a constant troubled state always worring if he is leading people down the right path.

 

There are those with much fewer worries and much greater convictions. Those are usually much better counters to people like Lomi. As far as I see it she was uniquely qualified to face Luke at the time, but in the end he still won.

[Aurbere]

Which right there tells you one of Lomi's counters. There are characters with better mental defenses then Luke and those who dont have as much fears or doubts. Luke as the first of the new and the Grand Master seems to be in a constant troubled state always worring if he is leading people down the right path.

 

There are those with much fewer worries and much greater convictions. Those are usually much better counters to people like Lomi. As far as I see it she was uniquely qualified to face Luke at the time, but in the end he still won.

 

Very few characters...

[Aurbere]

You know what, let's just leave her in.

[tunewalker]

Very few characters...

 

A counter is a counter? Like I said I dont know. I am taking a wait and see approach. Honestly I personally dont think that Luke should be banned up through the Jedi Academy trilogy IE 11 ABY because I dont think Luke is to OP at that point. He certainly has strengths but he has weaknesses as well.

 

I feel that way with most characters personally. That's the thing, any one that has a "1 hit kill if you cant counter this they win" thing I call BS, I dont actually believe any of that actually exists, never have. I believe circumstances play more a part in things then anything else.

[Aurbere]

A counter is a counter? Like I said I dont know. I am taking a wait and see approach. Honestly I personally dont think that Luke should be banned up through the Jedi Academy trilogy IE 11 ABY because I dont think Luke is to OP at that point. He certainly has strengths but he has weaknesses as well.

 

I feel that way with most characters personally. That's the thing, any one that has a "1 hit kill if you cant counter this they win" thing I call BS, I dont actually believe any of that actually exists, never have. I believe circumstances play more a part in things then anything else.

 

Like I said, let's leave her in and 'wait and see'.