What if every Companion worked like Treek?

[robertthebard]

Most of the story acquired companions, 60% in fact, already have dual purposes.

The rTank is also RDPS

The mTank is also mDPS

The Healer is also rDPS

 

I wouldn't expect any change in the original companions. The current set up is completely balanced across all 8 archetypes. That said, there is room for improvement with the base companions, and your idea has merit.

 

I would much prefer to see a Companion Kit, as opposed to blanket changes impacting everyone.

 

From a thematic perspective, however, I dislike your proposal. Xalek (for example) is an Assassin, using him as a healer doesn't sit well with me, but that is strictly my opinion. And while, I would never be forced to use him that way myself, I would witness him being used that way and it would grind my gears.

 

I've been perusing this thread wondering how people don't know this. I have Treek, she makes a great crafter, on all but one of my toons, and while she's a great crafter there too, my mara does sometimes bring her along to play, since I used all the extra gear from getting HK to gear her up at 50. Other than that, I went mDPS/rDPS on my mara, using Vette to blow stuff up, or mDPSx2 with Jaesa. Quinn's gear was, until early last week, still set up for lvl 30ish, my Mara has been 55 for months. Really didn't see the need for him, since I was chewing stuff up so fast.

 

Generally speaking, more choices is a good thing, but I can't see the devs dumping the time and money into a system like this.

[darkov]

Would pay a lot of money to have Nadia be a MDPS/Healer, in fact would pay a lot of a money to have a decent FORCE USING HEALER as a companion.

[trancejeremy]

Yes.

 

Treek is just crazy. It's difficult to go back to other companions once you've gotten her.

 

Like on my Sage, I played up to 35 with Qyzen. Did he tank okay? Sure, but then I'd have to spend all my time healing him, rather than doing DPS.

 

Since getting Treek and dumping him, it's so much better. She heals herself a little, even in tank mode, so I don't have to watch her as carefully except against really tough elites. And if the going gets tough, I can simply flip her stance to healer and tank for a while, while she heals me and herself.

 

Especially a huge deal since some of the bosses in the consular storyline have nasty things that need to be interrupted or at least monitored.

 

All companions should really have 3 roles - tank, dps, heal. But just tank/heal like Treek.

 

On my BH, I still prefer Mako, since i can tank and do DPS basically. But on every other class, Treek is just so much better by far.

 

I guess some people with good gear and that are really good at the game will prefer a pure DPS companion, like Kira/Jaesa, but she makes most healers obsolete.

[SgtJeremy]

Cause it makes Treek irrelevant. You won't pay 28 dollars for an irrelevant companion would you? Story isn't all that interesting and can't exactly Romance her (Eww). Only perk is she is slightly more flexible then the others. OP at the lower levels slightly better then the average Healer/Tank at higher levels.

[Styxx]

I was under impression that most companions already had dual roles? at least tank and healer companions also have dps stance you can switched them into, so they prioritize pew pew instead of heal/taunt. while pure dps companions basically switch between AoE focus and single target (I tend to default to AoE, personally).

 

so... I'm not entirely sure that these kits are in any way necessary or will provide any particular improvement to the existing roles. especially given that a lot of your suggestions are already in game.

 

now. being able to switch favorite companion into any of three roles via kits? that I could see being something interesting. not sure how feasible, but at least it would seem to provide more flexibility in companion choice.

 

Universal role kits, which give any companion any stance - like a healing Scorpio, or a tanking Dorne, for instance. Based on advanced class, you can end up having a cool companion that you can`t use, because you`ll just shoot yourself in the foot - DPS with DPS companion, or healer with healer, for instance.

 

So this idea will only, in effect, allow you to give the role you need to the companion you like and otherwise can`t use or use improperly because of class restriction / need.

[robertthebard]

Universal role kits, which give any companion any stance - like a healing Scorpio, or a tanking Dorne, for instance. Based on advanced class, you can end up having a cool companion that you can`t use, because you`ll just shoot yourself in the foot - DPS with DPS companion, or healer with healer, for instance.

 

So this idea will only, in effect, allow you to give the role you need to the companion you like and otherwise can`t use or use improperly because of class restriction / need.

 

How are 2 DPSs shooting yourself in the foot? Kill faster, heal less. Gear up properly and this is exactly the scenario you wind up with. Changing stances, or totally revamping the builds won't change the fact that they have to gear to function, it will just mean that now you have to have even more gear for them to function, and since that seems to be an issue for people, it's not going to fix anything.

[Styxx]

How are 2 DPSs shooting yourself in the foot? Kill faster, heal less. Gear up properly and this is exactly the scenario you wind up with. Changing stances, or totally revamping the builds won't change the fact that they have to gear to function, it will just mean that now you have to have even more gear for them to function, and since that seems to be an issue for people, it's not going to fix anything.

 

I`ll rephrase. I want Blizz to heal my Mercenary, not Mako. I also want Nadia to heal my Sage, not this POS Tharan Cedrax, with his crap ideas and me forced to always get middle choices to not lose affection. Or I can want Zenith to tank. Or Forex to heal my commando and not the uptight Dorne. At least he`s mildly amusing in his zeal.

 

You see, it`s not about the gear and never has been. It`s about having the companion I WANT, not the one I am forced to use because of my spec or gameplay choice.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Styxx

[Hoshkar]

Would be nice to see, as fun as seeing a million little Ewoks running around is right now.... They put how much work into the companions in game, and some are almost never used now....

[robertthebard]

I`ll rephrase. I want Blizz to heal my Mercenary, not Mako. I also want Nadia to heal my Sage, not this POS Tharan Cedrax, with his crap ideas and me forced to always get middle choices to not lose affection. Or I can want Zenith to tank. Or Forex to heal my commando and not the uptight Dorne. At least he`s mildly amusing in his zeal.

 

You see, it`s not about the gear and never has been. It`s about having the companion I WANT, not the one I am forced to use because of my spec or gameplay choice.

 

I use Nadia on my Shadow now, at 55. Heals are for people that can't kill fast enough, and if they can't kill fast enough, it's a gear issue. My tank spec'd Jugg uses Jaesa, and my Sent uses Kira. Notice a pattern? No healers required. Now if I were going to solo FPs at level, I might want to bring one, but really, if I hit the same FP with a guildy, I'd use Nadia on my Shadow, and let the guildy either heal, or run a healer comp. Our kill speed won't suck, and heals become a luxury, not a necessity for that kind of content. Ops are a different story, but since you can't use comps there anyway, it's really not worth the development time/money.

[Halinalle]

I use Nadia on my Shadow now, at 55. Heals are for people that can't kill fast enough, and if they can't kill fast enough, it's a gear issue.

 

Try to solo champion not more than 3 levels below you as tank Shadow/Assassin with DPS companion.

 

Of course:

- Holiday

- Almost non-existent downtime

Edited May 18, 2014 by Halinalle

[SW_display_name]

Most of the story acquired companions, 60% in fact, already have dual purposes.

The rTank is also RDPS

The mTank is also mDPS

The Healer is also rDPS

I don't think we're using "DPS" in the same sense here, because the performance is not close or similar to an actual DPS companion, and you further have to disable half their abilities to prevent them from doing incredibly stupid things (stealing all aggro anyway due to mass +Threat modifiers unaffected by DPS stance, breaking CC nonstop, constantly stopping DPS to Heal you when you don't need healing, etc).

 

It's just not the same thing, at all. Putting eg, Dr. Lokin in "DPS" stance is one of the gimpiest things in the world. You may as well just unsummon him, or put him on Passive.

 

It also does not affect that DPS companions need to be shelved when DPS support is not appropriate (eg, you need a Healer).

 

This is kind of the point of saying "... works like Treek" — ie, can fulfill 2 roles correctly.

Edited May 18, 2014 by SW_display_name

[SW_display_name]

But from what I've seen, many companions already have two stances. I hardly ever switch them around because it would take regearing in many cases. Take Doc (JK) for example. He has a healer stance (Med Watch) and... DPS, I think (only use him as a healer, so I forget).

See above.

[SW_display_name]

I've been perusing this thread wondering how people don't know this.

Nobody is unaware of the current backup stance Companions have. See above.

[SW_display_name]

I was under impression that most companions already had dual roles?

Annnnnnnd see above.

 

Do you guys actually try this stuff before recommending it? Honestly curious.

[lironBD]

I perfectly understand the RP reasons. I avoided treek cause she sounds like Mexican gangster and the general art theme looks ridiculous.

 

But this game moved from story oriented to a more gameplay oriented theme. Hence when I do dailies or some quest on planets treek makes it really easier... she is by far the most over powered companion.

Also with legacy armor you only need 2 sets (1 heals \ 1 tank) and all your legacy is set.

[SW_display_name]

Cause it makes Treek irrelevant. You won't pay 28 dollars for an irrelevant companion would you? Story isn't all that interesting and can't exactly Romance her (Eww). Only perk is she is slightly more flexible then the others. OP at the lower levels slightly better then the average Healer/Tank at higher levels.

No it does not, based on a basic consideration of these facts:

• Not every Comp would be Heal/Tank
  
• Not every Comp would be available at level 1 like Cartel comps
  
• Not every Comp is OP while leveling
  
• Not every Comp is an Ewok
  
• Not every Comp would have the skills that Treek does
  
• People want unique things simply because they're unique; this does not change Treek's uniqueness
  
• Second stances could be gated in similar ways to HK and/or Treek
  
• etc
  
• etc
  
• etc
  

 

Essentially I think your definition of "irrelevant" is questionable.

[Styxx]

I use Nadia on my Shadow now, at 55. Heals are for people that can't kill fast enough, and if they can't kill fast enough, it's a gear issue. My tank spec'd Jugg uses Jaesa, and my Sent uses Kira. Notice a pattern? No healers required. Now if I were going to solo FPs at level, I might want to bring one, but really, if I hit the same FP with a guildy, I'd use Nadia on my Shadow, and let the guildy either heal, or run a healer comp. Our kill speed won't suck, and heals become a luxury, not a necessity for that kind of content. Ops are a different story, but since you can't use comps there anyway, it's really not worth the development time/money.

 

You are not reading it properly. I am not arguing with you or for anyone else how I play my toons and what I use as companions and why. You use whatever you want, I use whatever I need - not a question and not up fordebate neither.

 

I am arguing about the choice to bring whatever companion I want, when I want it, with whatever combo of AC I want to have, just like the examples above. I ALREADY HAVE the roles and that was never in question. I want those roles to be fulfilled by the companion OF MY OWN CHOOSING, not the forced POS role / comp combo.

 

I want Blizz as a healer and Zenith as tank. I also want Nadia Grell as healer and not DPS, just because I don`t like my current choices. I also want Forex as healer. Again, I ALREADY have those roles covered, but on the wrong companion, or a lesser... desired one. And some of them are downright opposite allignment!

Edited May 18, 2014 by Styxx

[robertthebard]

Try to solo champion not more than 3 levels below you as tank Shadow/Assassin with DPS companion.

 

Of course:

- Holiday

- Almost non-existent downtime

 

I do, with non-existent down time. In fact, I solo same level champs with non-existent downtime, isn't that the point of having the comp? You know that little droid in the GSI daily on Tat? Up until I maxed out GSI rep, I solo'd it every day. It's an at level champion mob, no matter what level you are. I'm geared, my comp's geared, and I know how to play my class, it's not hard.

[robertthebard]

You are not reading it properly. I am not arguing with you or for anyone else how I play my toons and what I use as companions and why. You use whatever you want, I use whatever I need - not a question and not up fordebate neither.

 

I am arguing about the choice to bring whatever companion I want, when I want it, with whatever combo of AC I want to have, just like the examples above. I ALREADY HAVE the roles and that was never in question. I want those roles to be fulfilled by the companion OF MY OWN CHOOSING, not the forced POS role / comp combo.

 

I want Blizz as a healer and Zenith as tank. I also want Nadia Grell as healer and not DPS, just because I don`t like my current choices. I also want Forex as healer. Again, I ALREADY have those roles covered, but on the wrong companion, or a lesser... desired one. And some of them are downright opposite allignment!

 

Then you're out of luck? Because as I understand it, that used to be in, in Beta, but they pulled it out? You can argue for it if you like, but I still don't see that it's worth the development time/money to mess with, especially in the format presented here. I'd much rather they spent that time and money on new content, something else to do besides the same tired dailies/FPs and Ops.

[Andryah]

Guys — for the love of Marr —

stop quoting this whole post when you reply just to type 1 sentence unrelated to anything I wrote. Thread spam like whoa.

 

Hey.. you started it.

[SW_display_name]

Then you're out of luck? Because as I understand it, that used to be in, in Beta, but they pulled it out? You can argue for it if you like, but I still don't see that it's worth the development time/money to mess with, especially in the format presented here. I'd much rather they spent that time and money on new content, something else to do besides the same tired dailies/FPs and Ops.

The problem is you can play this game all day — if you only take me as an example, Galactic Starfighter was a complete waste of resources because:

• I don't PvP
  
• I don't play it
  
• I've spent zero Credits or CC on GSF
  
• It could not exist, and I would never notice the difference
  

 

But I'm not upset they devoted an entire update cycle to GSF, because it's appealing to someone, and I'd rather the game appeal to more people than less. The happier everyone is, the healthier SWTOR is, and the healthier SWTOR is, the better "my" portions of the game also become.

 

Basically, something does not have to directly benefit you (or every single player) to be worth adding. It really comes down to a lot of decisions beyond our scope to decide, especially since it's impossible for us as players to really understand the cost of implementing any feature — something seemingly complex could be quite easy, and something seemingly "easy" could actually require weeks of code detangling and restructuring.

 

Look at for example the Aikion and TM-59 pistol models — before you were "out of luck" if you wanted to dual-wield these, or have them on a non-GS/Merc character, because they were class-specific rewards.

 

Adding these models to CM really didn't do anything for the vast majority of players, but it made a small segment very happy. BioWare made the decision it was worth it to implement.

 

All we can do is express what we'd like to have, and why, and offer some ideas about the way we'd be happy having it implemented. Even if BioWare never "listens" (they do, but they decide it's never going to leave the Wall of Crazy), at least we know that we tried in a reasonable way.

 

I (and others) proposed Companion Kits letting you totally customize any companions' role. This gets a lot of flak from people arguing that it dilutes companion identity too much (eg, Skadge healing, etc).

 

So, I'm trying to take those complaints into account, and propose a compromise that meets everyone's desires somewhere in the middle.

[Duskrequim]

The problem is you can play this game all day — if you only take me as an example, Galactic Starfighter was a complete waste of resources because:

• I don't PvP
  
• I don't play it
  
• I've spent zero Credits or CC on GSF
  
• It could not exist, and I would never notice the difference
  

 

But I'm not upset they devoted an entire update cycle to GSF, because it's appealing to someone, and I'd rather the game appeal to more people than less. The happier everyone is, the healthier SWTOR is, and the healthier SWTOR is, the better "my" portions of the game also become.

 

Basically, something does not have to directly benefit you (or every single player) to be worth adding. It really comes down to a lot of decisions beyond our scope to decide, especially since it's impossible for us as players to really understand the cost of implementing any feature — something seemingly complex could be quite easy, and something seemingly "easy" could actually require weeks of code detangling and restructuring.

 

Look at for example the Aikion and TM-59 pistol models — before you were "out of luck" if you wanted to dual-wield these, or have them on a non-GS/Merc character, because they were class-specific rewards.

 

Adding these models to CM really didn't do anything for the vast majority of players, but it made a small segment very happy. BioWare made the decision it was worth it to implement.

 

All we can do is express what we'd like to have, and why, and offer some ideas about the way we'd be happy having it implemented. Even if BioWare never "listens" (they do, but they decide it's never going to leave the Wall of Crazy), at least we know that we tried in a reasonable way.

 

I (and others) proposed Companion Kits letting you totally customize any companions' role. This gets a lot of flak from people arguing that it dilutes companion identity too much (eg, Skadge healing, etc).

 

So, I'm trying to take those complaints into account, and propose a compromise that meets everyone's desires somewhere in the middle.

 

Its that sort of thinking that most ignore. They post about how if it doesnt affect them or 100% of the player base then somehow its not worth the time or resources. I completely agree to everything you stated.

[theSCARAYone]

Yea GSF was cool for about 5 minutes. Then I realized this is stun wars the old stunpublic and they needed to add stuns into dog fighting too.

[Sangrar]

Yea GSF was cool for about 5 minutes. Then I realized this is stun wars the old stunpublic and they needed to add stuns into dog fighting too.

 

what? there are a lot less stuns in gsf than in ground pvp

[DarthSylar]

delete Edited May 18, 2014 by DarthSylar