Bioware: Most of your players are pvp'ers.... figure it out!

[Kalfear]

Pro tip: not responding to points doesn't mean they go away- it just means you concede them.

 

.

 

Holy Bat Bleep

 

You really have convinced yourself someone ignoreing you mean they have conceded the arguement/point?

 

I've heard about living in denial but WOW

Just WOW

 

No sorry but when someone says they done

Unless other wise stated

it means you have failed to present a worthy counter argument/debate and they just not wasting anymore time on it

 

LOL, sorry no clue what you and other guy arguing about but your insane statement jumped out at me as just so gawd awful wrong headed it needed correcting

 

And im not even going to get into how self centered a response starting with *pro tip* is.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Kalfear

[Sangrar]

Before you ask why I'm still here, I'm a part of one of the, if not, the best PvP guilds on Pot5 and have a few friends who I can enjoy the game with in PvP. That however does not mean I'm ignorant of all of the issues SWTOR has had since launch. They're all clear to me. Good thing Star Wars PvP is very fun otherwise I would not be here supporting the game with my subscription.

 

I wasn't going to ask I don't even care honestly. Anyway I think Star Wars pvp is fun too I know it has problems I just do not go around insulting people for it, at least without them insulting me first.

[Reno_Tarshil]

You just proved the point SLC and I made. Thank you.

 

 

You don't silence criticism. A majority of the time (I would say 90%+) criticism is warranted almost always. This MMO is not perfect and in fact launched very badly which is why it's in a vegetable-like state. If EAware listened to the so called haters I don't believe SWTOR would be the mess it is now.

 

Before you ask why I'm still here, I'm a part of one of the, if not, the best PvP guilds on Pot5 and have a few friends who I can enjoy the game with in PvP. That however does not mean I'm ignorant of all of the issues SWTOR has had since launch. They're all clear to me. Good thing Star Wars PvP is very fun otherwise I would not be here supporting the game with my subscription.

 

Maybe if you had a point.

 

The game is fine and making money, so yeah not vegetable-like at all..

 

Oh goody another Pot5 player....

Edited May 18, 2014 by Reno_Tarshil

[Sangrar]

No. It's an accurate assessment of THE overzealous poster in the General Discussion and of the other overzealous ones overall. I'm sorry if you can't accept that.

 

namecalling someone by putting EA into their name is not an assessment on any level, its just namecalling.

 

 

edit: and an accusation without any evidence which is, whats the name of it? oh yeah, SLANDER.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Sangrar

[Reno_Tarshil]

No. It's an accurate assessment of THE overzealous poster in the General Discussion and of the other overzealous ones overall. I'm sorry if you can't accept that.

What assessment? You literally accused Andryah of working for EA.

 

Except SLC hasn't failed at all. In fact, he provided a highly accurate assessment of the clique of all the regular cheerleaders of the General Discussion who usually gang up together and bait or blatantly attack critics.

 

SLC is just upset that people actually defend the game and enjoy it.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Didn't this game go F2P in less than a year and lose like over 1.7 million subscribers?

 

Because going F2P is such a horrible thing? Protip: It's not.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I did not accuse Andryah of anything. All I did was assess her arguments, pulled them a part and pointed out why each of her points - including those of the other overzealous posters - were logical fallacies. I'm sorry if you can't accept that.

 

Protip: Switching to F2P in less than a year, when the head devs specifically said to fans that this game would be sub-only, is horrible, combined when everyone has factual evidence that subscriptions were falling drastically, servers were dying, and that there's been a lack of long term retention at endgame content since launch. My god you people are like zombies.

 

Exhibit A:

 

Nice bait attempt. Don't try and switch this about me because I have done nothing wrong but point out the ad hominem arguments by the overzealous posters.

 

 

Which 90%+ of the posters in the General Discussion do.

 

 

Whatever helps you sleep at night, EAndryah. I already proved the logical fallacies in the arguments of the overzealous posters. Baiting critics and calling them names just for not being overly positive 99% of the time won't win you the arguments or make your points the right ones.

 

You are accusing her of working for EA.

[JediMasterSLC]

Maybe if you had a point.

 

The game is fine and making money, so yeah not vegetable-like at all..

 

Oh goody another Pot5 player....

 

Farming the CM while running the game on a skeleton dev team =/= fine. And if it is "fine", that's still not good enough. You as a member of the playerbase should not be satisfied until it is great.

[JediMasterSLC]

Didn't this game go F2P in less than a year and lose like over 1.7 million subscribers?

 

But but but.... THE GAME IS FINE OK. ALL HAIL OUR CM SAVIORS.

Edited May 18, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[Reno_Tarshil]

I never said anywhere she worked for EA, represented them or had ties to them or BioWare in any way. To say that is against forum rules, which I have not broken. So unless you're going to provide any real arguments, I believe we're done here gentleman.

 

You said "EAndryah". You can't seriously sit here and try to tell me otherwise.

 

Farming the CM while running the game on a skeleton dev team =/= fine. And if it is "fine", that's still not good enough. You as a member of the playerbase should not be satisfied until it is great.

 

Sorry, but you don't get to tell me whether or not i'm fine with a game.

[JediMasterSLC]

Holy Bat Bleep

 

You really have convinced yourself someone ignoreing you mean they have conceded the arguement/point?

 

I've heard about living in denial but WOW

Just WOW

 

No sorry but when someone says they done

Unless other wise stated

it means you have failed to present a worthy counter argument/debate and they just not wasting anymore time on it

 

LOL, sorry no clue what you and other guy arguing about but your insane statement jumped out at me as just so gawd awful wrong headed it needed correcting

 

And im not even going to get into how self centered a response starting with *pro tip* is.

 

There's a problem with that philosophy: anytime someone makes an argument that the other person doesn't like or can't provide a good response to, they could just claim "this is ridiculous, I'm done wasting my time with you". Anyone who has ever done competitive debate will tell you that an argument that goes answered is conceded, and considered as functionally true for the rest of the debate.

[Sangrar]

Farming the CM while running the game on a skeleton dev team =/= fine. And if it is "fine", that's still not good enough. You as a member of the playerbase should not be satisfied until it is great.

 

so now we have to approve or disapprove a game by YOUR standards? If you were paying for my subscription then fine but guess what? I am paying MY money TO WHOEVER I WANTand can say WHATEVER I WANT ABOUT IT.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Sangrar

[JediMasterSLC]

Sorry, but you don't get to tell me whether or not i'm fine with a game.

 

You are allowed to set your standards so low as to be completely satisfied with the game. You are not allowed to state that the game is objectively fine, and thus that criticism of it is just QQ.

[Sangrar]

You are allowed to set your standards so low as to be completely satisfied with the game. You are not allowed to state that the game is objectively fine, and thus that criticism of it is just QQ.

 

hey, if I did not see enough good in this game and did not enjoy it I would not subscribe to it, you subscribe to it so you obviously see something in it too, but either way you do not get to make peoples decisions or form their opinions for them, I mean really, there are many different standpoints on which you can review anything so don't go off and insult the guys judgement because he has a different viewpoint.

[Reno_Tarshil]

You are allowed to set your standards so low as to be completely satisfied with the game. You are not allowed to state that the game is objectively fine, and thus that criticism of it is just QQ.

 

Oh but I am. Just like you are allowed to think the game is not fine. That's the beauty of a discussion on the forums. You're not happy with the game? Cool. Just don't be blind and think that because you arn't happy with the game that everyone else feels that way.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Even if the handful of cheerleaders in the General Discussion think the game is just fine, I wonder why this game had to go F2P. I'm guessing all of those sub losses and server population decreases were just a figment of my imagination.

 

You need a nap.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Except we can objectively state that the majority feel that way. Over 1.7 million subscribers lost!

 

Except, you don't speak for everyone, just yourself. To claim that you speak for the masses, discredits you.

 

Now if you wish to provide valid documentation that you are a rep of a group of people that's one thing but until then, you only speak for you.

[theUndead]

Even if the handful of cheerleaders in the General Discussion think the game is just fine, I wonder why this game had to go F2P. I'm guessing all of those sub losses and server population decreases were just a figment of my imagination.

 

I love how you choose the same old tired arguments. Calling people names etc. Really shows your maturity and the fact you are actually the obsessed one.

[theUndead]

Except we can objectively state that the majority feel that way. Over 1.7 million subscribers lost!

 

Except you are one person with one opinion bringing up the past. I don't know if you noticed but the game actually survived and is doing better. Sorry that you simply can't accept that people actually enjoy this game.

[JediMasterSLC]

Oh but I am. Just like you are allowed to think the game is not fine. That's the beauty of a discussion on the forums. You're not happy with the game? Cool. Just don't be blind and think that because you arn't happy with the game that everyone else feels that way.

 

My point was that you aren't allowed to use your own ... interesting perception that the game is doing just fine as a justification for declaring critiques of the game as trivial.

[JediMasterSLC]

Except you are one person with one opinion bringing up the past. I don't know if you noticed but the game actually survived and is doing better. Sorry that you simply can't accept that people actually enjoy this game.

 

Survived, not thrived. If it could have done if there more competent people behind the wheel.

[Reno_Tarshil]

My point was that you aren't allowed to use your own ... interesting perception that the game is doing just fine as a justification for declaring critiques of the game as trivial.

 

Yes I am in fact allowed. It's called an opinion and these are forums filled with discussions where you can share your opinion.

[Sangrar]

My point was that you aren't allowed to use your own ... interesting perception that the game is doing just fine as a justification for declaring critiques of the game as trivial.

 

the irony

[Knockerz]

I did not accuse Andryah of anything. All I did was assess her arguments, pulled them a part and pointed out why each of her points - including those of the other overzealous posters - were logical fallacies. I'm sorry if you can't accept that.

 

Protip: Switching to F2P in less than a year, when the head devs specifically said to fans that this game would be sub-only, is horrible, combined when everyone has factual evidence that subscriptions were falling drastically, servers were dying, and that there's been a lack of long term retention at endgame content since launch. My god you people are like zombies.

 

It's more like a sub only game. The f2p model has a lot of restrictions compared to other f2p models like Tera or PSO2. However, there will always be some form of restriciton. I bought a premium pass for PSO2 for one month that gives me access to max 40 quest, double of fun points for each I log in, premium blocks, and most important ability to sell items on the auction house. I was sub for Tera and the restrictions that were lift were the 15 percent listing fee on the auction house, daily boosters for xp, gold, and rep, and teleportation scowls for instant travel between any major city. Swtor lets you use the auction house, but puts limits a max credit limit on your f2p account and some limitation on pve access, ops, daily flash points, gear acquisition, convince services, revivals ect.

 

Swtor model is more like a compromise between the Tera and PSO2 it gives you access to the auction house. A f2p account on pso2 won't allow you to sell items on auction house unless you subscribe or buy a my shop ticket, which is like 53% value of a monthly subscription. To make money in pso2 you need to be able to sell on the auction house. For tera they have a 15 percent fee, which makes your wares non competitive on the auction house and eats away at your earning in that game. For pso2 the max amount of quest you can hold in your quest is log is 20 for a f2p, but a premium pass gives you 40, which means you can finish quest more efficiently and thus level faster. It's so worth it buying a premium pass. The point I'm making is that swtor puts in place hard restriction for access to end game content, convenience services, unify color no hats ect, and a credit limit. Personally, I think the other models are more viable for drawing in new players compared to swtor, but swtor is Star Wars where Tera is unknown. PSO2 is know in Japan, but relative unknown outside.

 

The subscription on pso2 and Tera are very attractive, but I think pso2 model is superior compared to swtor and Tera. First, a f2p player can buy any item of any value on the auction house, but you can't sell any of your items without access to the auction house. You can run Tacos, which are like dailies for credits, but you get tired of running them by the 3rd day straight. Also forgot to mention, in pso2 if you not a subscriber you can only acquire star weapons or armor of 10 or greater through drops only, but as a subscribe you can trade in a 10 weapon or armor for a ticket that allows you to use any other 10 star or greater weapon or armor being sold on the auction house. In that regard pso2 is similar to swtor endgame gear restriction.

 

As for retention and how swtor is doing isn't that bad. In tera there is noticeably less activity, which is reflect in the auction house, forums, and in game. There is also the fact the developers at blue hole released a new class with only one race, elins. The reason is they didn't have the large enough development staff to develop the animations for the other races. It's like swtor coming out with a new class, but being humans only.

 

The restriction on swtor are probably due to BW thinking that swtor is good enough that they don't need to loosen the restrictions compared to Tera. BW knows for the most part what they are doing for maximizing profits. If this model was shown to maximize their profits, then why would they switch to another model? As for pso2 it's doing very well. It's actually a very old series in japan and been around since the 90's.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Knockerz

[JediMasterSLC]

Except, you don't speak for everyone, just yourself. To claim that you speak for the masses, discredits you.

 

Now if you wish to provide valid documentation that you are a rep of a group of people that's one thing but until then, you only speak for you.

 

Except that if 1.7 million people have unsubbed, then he can say with mathematical certainty that the majority of players have been dissatisfied with the game. Not including all the people currently subscribed that are barely satisfied enough with the game to keep playing.