Can this game get any easier?

[Vandicus]

Biggest problem on the old LI HM T2 version was the mechanics which was pretty harsh...

I remember killing that droid first time I felt like reaching the top of the Everest.

Mostly if someone had low end gear the margin for error was so small it was total wipe fest....

First time I did it back then I had full columi armor set (which I grinded on other HM FP.

iirc the LI HM T2 was only one to drop rakata gear at final boss which was big big thing back then.

 

LI still has the hardest mechanics of all the flashpoints.

 

To the crowd I was playing with at the time, the rakata gear didn't matter, everyone was already geared in it. IIRC, EV HM and KP HM both dropped rakata pieces, so progression was very easy. There were even a few guilds that did Nim EV as a 4-man group, wearing rakata.

[lironBD]

EV and KP are and were pretty easy....

I'll agree with you there.

 

But in order to get into rakata for the first place (before the Recruit MK-1 days) you had to get some kind of basic level 50 purple mods for the start > hence hm fp

 

this days the progression was pretty much voided as you do daily missions at 55 get basic cooms which you purchase with them exactly same gear which drops on HM 55s FP (BM 69 mods) and it's not even the arkanian with the bonus set on it.

 

So most people will get to level 55 after doing first time makeb\oricon\czerka\gsi they should have 66\69 set out of hand pretty easily and no need what so ever to do any FP so they can skip directly to the harvest of 16 m sm runs.

[Khevar]

Anyone actually did LI HM on the pre nerf version back when it was Tier 2 FP using recruit MK-1 blue gear or tionease?

 

I call shenanigans.

Jesse Sky pointing out it was tuned for Tionese

Math showing how it can be done in Tionese

One player comments having done it in sub-Tionese

Another player did it, gives more details.

 

This was back in 2012. Don't feel like searching for more. Enrage timers weren't the problem in HM LI. It was the mechanics.

[lironBD]

Unfortunately Instead of letting players adapt they nerfed it beyond reason I 2 manned sav rak on the new HM version using rakata mods :x

[Styxx]

You know what? Let`s all revert to the square wheel and the scoped knife! That ought to be hardcore enough.

 

Want hardcore? Go play EvE or DayZ. This game was never hardcore, nor designed to be anything other than brainless WOW-like.

 

[EDIT] Forgot something. Pre-WOW and quest driven MMO`s, you only had Korean style MMO`s = grind mobs heavy ala Lineage / SWG, where you would just park somewhere, hit mobs until you get no xp, move on. Was as satisfying as watching grass grow. Sure, you would get some nice results, but in MONTHS. And while it might have been an acceptable standard then, we do know better now, today.

 

Maybe this is not the game you`re looking for. Perhaps an old fashioned self flagellation would serve you better?

Edited April 18, 2014 by Styxx

[lironBD]

You know what? Let`s all revert to the square wheel and the scoped knife! That ought to be hardcore enough.

 

Want hardcore? Go play EvE or DayZ. This game was never hardcore, nor designed to be anything other than brainless WOW-like.

 

Point is it wasn't like that when it was first released it's a process.. a curve of lower difficulty which continues and here I ask when it will end ? what is the red line?

Will we see end game geared 55 on cartel market at some point ?

[Duskrequim]

Easy is relative... Most FP's etc are now easy, not so much because of gear but because we have done them so many times that we know the shortcuts and how to best beat them. New content is hard because we dont know them yet. This happens to any content later in game... I am glad they changed the system of how they do rewards because it helps the players not get stuck doing same old missions over and over. Just imagine if they didnt do this. Try getting someone new to come back to a game where by the time he gets level 50 he is way behind in gear and the next level of content will rip him a new one. With the attitude of some players seeing peoples gear he would eventually quit from frustration or require some handme outs. Redoing the system the way they did gives these players the ability to self gear up and I think is a great thing.. .I cant always raid but the missions and grouping allowed me to gear up to Raid level without the need to raid which helps the raid because they do not have to carry me if I join.

[Styxx]

Point is it wasn't like that when it was first released it's a process.. a curve of lower difficulty which continues and here I ask when it will end ? what is the red line?

Will we see end game geared 55 on cartel market at some point ?

 

That would qualify as pay 2 win and probably won`t happen. But I like things made easier.

 

I repeat - this is not and never has been a hardcore game and I expect to play it as it is - easy peasy.

 

I played Lineage 2 and while fun at that time, I won`t go back to that style of play.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Styxx

[lironBD]

Well yes it wasn't supposed to be Hardcore game it was supposed to be Heavy story oriented kotor style mmo in star wars universe.

 

And I disagree about new content being harder we cleared S&V when it first came out at the first week (we had to wait for everyone ding 55) then we all got into peachy 66 augmented gear which made old level 50 looks funny and cleared it easily.

 

comparing to EC when it was released well EC was hell.... :X

 

And easy and story driven and such but making a game easier then it was > make me do stuff faster > I play less.

 

On other games I can set me a goal and enjoy the road there... on swotr with latest changes I set a goal and I got 10 shortcuts to get there faster then I can spell my goal :x

[Duskrequim]

That would qualify as pay 2 win and probably won`t happen. But I like things made easier.

 

I repeat - this is not and never has been a hardcore game and I expect to play it as it is - easy peasy.

 

I played Lineage 2 and while fun at that time, I won`t go back to that style of play.

 

never liked the idea of calling something Pay to Win....... especially in an MMO where there is no "WIN" to do. You cant buy progress in this game... even if they sold a fully geared (180) level 55 with full augments etc.... you still would have to play the FP's and OP's. You cant just declare you won the game. This is something I wish would stop being used. Call it what it really is... Pay to Skip.... not Pay to win..... because paying for said character would skip you to the end.. but you will still have to play the game.

[Vandicus]

EV and KP are and were pretty easy....

I'll agree with you there.

 

But in order to get into rakata for the first place (before the Recruit MK-1 days) you had to get some kind of basic level 50 purple mods for the start > hence hm fp

 

this days the progression was pretty much voided as you do daily missions at 55 get basic cooms which you purchase with them exactly same gear which drops on HM 55s FP (BM 69 mods) and it's not even the arkanian with the bonus set on it.

 

So most people will get to level 55 after doing first time makeb\oricon\czerka\gsi they should have 66\69 set out of hand pretty easily and no need what so ever to do any FP so they can skip directly to the harvest of 16 m sm runs.

 

That's an issue connected to raising gear values and the commendation system that they introduced with 2.0. The commendation system more or less forces them to keep basic and elite commendation rewards closer to BiS than say, Dread Guard and Tionese. Unless they abandon the commendation system(which I actually like), you're going to see the rewards for basic commendations regularly climb.

 

Why didn't they buff the HM 55 rewards? I don't know.

[Styxx]

never liked the idea of calling something Pay to Win....... especially in an MMO where there is no "WIN" to do. You cant buy progress in this game... even if they sold a fully geared (180) level 55 with full augments etc.... you still would have to play the FP's and OP's. You cant just declare you won the game. This is something I wish would stop being used. Call it what it really is... Pay to Skip.... not Pay to win..... because paying for said character would skip you to the end.. but you will still have to play the game.

 

Semantics and only semantics. Sell power equals Pay 2 Win model, where you end up with a moron that never sat foot in an OP in your PuG. It gets more interesting when it`s a tank or a healer. It gets even more interesting when this guy queues for PvP.

 

It`s no different than the same moron buying a fully kitted toon off ebay, while having never played SWTOR, then queue for weeklies. You might want to play with such individuals.. I don`t.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Styxx

[lironBD]

never liked the idea of calling something Pay to Win....... especially in an MMO where there is no "WIN" to do. You cant buy progress in this game... even if they sold a fully geared (180) level 55 with full augments etc.... you still would have to play the FP's and OP's. You cant just declare you won the game. This is something I wish would stop being used. Call it what it really is... Pay to Skip.... not Pay to win..... because paying for said character would skip you to the end.. but you will still have to play the game.

 

P2W is a term widely used in gaming culture.

It means the somone will pay cash to get advancement in the game where the other player invested huge amounts of time and effort in order to get to the same point.

 

No need to argue about there is no "win" in mmo.

but still getting shortcuts options does make the entire experience less exciting...

 

No one remember the days we did dailies on belsavis and Illum for 3-4 days to get rakata implants\earpiece and purple (51) mods ?

 

Now even at level 50 you have absolutely no reason to even go to those areas .... do them once for the story and continue...

 

Actually thinking about it problems might originate from the small margin between 50 and 55... maybe if cap was increased in 10-20 levels you had use for the level 50 content and gear.

[Vandicus]

Well yes it wasn't supposed to be Hardcore game it was supposed to be Heavy story oriented kotor style mmo in star wars universe.

 

And I disagree about new content being harder we cleared S&V when it first came out at the first week (we had to wait for everyone ding 55) then we all got into peachy 66 augmented gear which made old level 50 looks funny and cleared it easily.

 

comparing to EC when it was released well EC was hell.... :X

 

And easy and story driven and such but making a game easier then it was > make me do stuff faster > I play less.

 

On other games I can set me a goal and enjoy the road there... on swotr with latest changes I set a goal and I got 10 shortcuts to get there faster then I can spell my goal :x

 

People had EC on farm on test server. Part of that had to do with Bioware getting a bunch of top raiding guilds to test at the time, but still.

 

I don't think boss fights are any less complicated now than when EC was released. However, the availability of good guides has increased dramatically, thanks in part to people like dulfy, and a lot of the people who were brand new to MMOs know how to use a rotation and have a thorough grasp on what an operation is like.

[Vandicus]

P2W is a term widely used in gaming culture.

It means the somone will pay cash to get advancement in the game where the other player invested huge amounts of time and effort in order to get to the same point.

 

No need to argue about there is no "win" in mmo.

but still getting shortcuts options does make the entire experience less exciting...

 

No one remember the days we did dailies on belsavis and Illum for 3-4 days to get rakata implants\earpiece and purple (51) mods ?

 

Now even at level 50 you have absolutely no reason to even go to those areas .... do them once for the story and continue...

 

Actually thinking about it problems might originate from the small margin between 50 and 55... maybe if cap was increased in 10-20 levels you had use for the level 50 content and gear.

 

Yes I do remember grinding those dailies.

No, I don't think that's a good way to have gearing done. Grinding dailies is a really bad way to do endgame PvE content.

 

Not to mention, rakata was BiS then, and you were just complaining about how basic commendations reward better gear than what's in HM 55s. Rakata didn't drop in HM 50s back then, yet could be acquired by grinding dailies. Bit of a disconnect, no?

Edited April 18, 2014 by Vandicus

[Styxx]

No one remember the days we did dailies on belsavis and Illum for 3-4 days to get rakata implants\earpiece and purple (51) mods ?

 

Now even at level 50 you have absolutely no reason to even go to those areas .... do them once for the story and continue...

 

Actually thinking about it problems might originate from the small margin between 50 and 55... maybe if cap was increased in 10-20 levels you had use for the level 50 content and gear.

I do, but it`s the same thing. Belsavis / Ilum for 51`s + implants, then run EV / KP SM for Tionese / Columi, then go for the HM versions for Rakata.

 

The principle is the same - run dailies for entry gear, then whatever tier 2 ops for lowest op gear, then tier 1 ops for second best gear in slot, then HM/NiM of the tier 0 ops. Pretty much same deal, if we substitute Belsavis for dailies with Makeb/Oricon/Cz, then tier 2 16 man SM ops, tier 1 the lvl 55 ones HM, then tier 0 NiM.

[Duskrequim]

I actually like the way the game goes.. I wish everquest the other game I play allowed you to have an alternative way to get gear like raid gear through quests or group content. The idea that the best gear be locked behind only specific content that must only be done through Raids.. in SWTOR case that would be Nightmare Ops.. is somewhat a bad policy.. however even the casual players can reach a point to be able to join in on HM and Nightmare Ops... if they work hard at it. This is a good kind of easy.. as it allows people to meet all sorts of new people.

[lironBD]

Yes I do remember grinding those dailies.

No, I don't think that's a good way to have gearing done. Grinding dailies is a really bad way to do endgame PvE content.

 

Not to mention, rakata was BiS then, and you were just complaining about how basic commendations reward better gear than what's in HM 55s. Rakata didn't drop in HM 50s back then, yet could be acquired by grinding dailies. Bit of a disconnect, no?

 

Not really you could only get implants and Earpiece so you probably had to spent a month on dailies to fill those three slots.

 

All other stuff including tionease and columi was from HM FP and rakata was from Harder versions of ops.

 

when Black hole area was added with campaign gear you could have got the campaign relic for daily cooms as well so again you had REASON to do dailies at those places also you did some space missions to get little bit of extra cooms.

 

Nowdays you get cap on ELITE cooms pretty quick so wise player will aim at (69) gear level as starting stage with basic cooms...

 

You got makeb dailies + staged weekly

you got GSI on number of planets with weekly

you got oricon (which grants 5 part 66 set on first run) with weekly

you got CZ-198 with weekly again which grants random 66 container at the end.

 

Can pretty much finish all of those weeklys in single day doing it right so once u got your 69 set after less then a week with obroan relics which are around same level of underworld relics and easy off hand with the elite cooms you got and all the money u made u also got now probably 72 main hand you got absolutely no reason to do Dailies or FP at all.

Next is only ultimate cooms or drops from operations in story mode\hard mode which u can do pretty quick...

I was amazed how my 5 minutes old 55 healer finished TFB 16m in like 30 minutes or so run and ended with like 6-7 lucky rolls on drops and 2 pieces set bonus.

 

So when I reach that point where I can gear so easily even without the gtn option the whole advancement gets boring I just skip huge chunks of content which I have no reason to do :X

[Styxx]

Tionese and Columi you were getting from SM ops, too, so it was set up just as it is now - PLENTY of options to get second best in slot.

 

The only difference between then and now is that you skip the first dailies run - or Belsavis / Ilum, in the old system. You get the 66, or 51 for free now. I despised getting to max level and doing a "pre-content" gearing up, so I`d say "Good riddance!"

Edited April 18, 2014 by Styxx

[Vandicus]

 

So when I reach that point where I can gear so easily even without the gtn option the whole advancement gets boring I just skip huge chunks of content which I have no reason to do :X

 

Only a small amount of content is current at any given time when a game does vertical progression. For the most part, what you're talking about is no longer considered progression PvE, its considered obsolete.

[JimG]

Welcome to MMOs.

No xp boosts or any perks.

Each character had 1 buff and if u wanted more then 1 type you had to be part of a group.

Only boost to xp was rested xp for which you had to log out while in "rested zone"

Don't use any XP boosts and don't use your class buffs. If you want the game to be more challenging and slower, then don't use the stuff that makes it easier and/or faster.

[Duskrequim]

Rakata gear could only be gotten in HM and NM mode ops. Columni you got from SM and HM.,. each boss in HM would drop 1 piece of Rakata usally... I got lucky on my first ever Guild Ops raid and wallked away with 5 pieces of Rakata... I was such a ******... I never felt more powerful.

[lironBD]

Reading my reply again I think I didn't explained myself right.

 

In the past the progression was with group, FP + OPS etc...

Today since the 69s reaplaced 66s on basic coom vendor and Obroan relics are on normal WZ cooms an u get a bolster without gear you can solo yourself to end game gear without any group...

 

I loved it! back then when I had to do FP and other group content and interact with people in order to advance in the game... Each hm fp was an adventure - hell first time in KUS hm it was like 2 hours run with the bonus boss and all but that sense of victory at the end was amazing.

 

this days I have absolutely no reason to do anything except the 5 weekly missions for the ops which will get me far beyond my cap of weekly cooms so I'm mostly in there for the ultimate cooms and the random drop here in there mostly after 2-3 I'll reach the cap and week is over for that toon maybe some pvp or random achievement hunt.

[annabethchase]

Reno to the rescue with awesome informative replies!

 

How about some in depth explanation so we can get bit wiser here ?

 

This game could get much easier. Most pick up groups cannot clear the final boss of story mode ops. The game is therefore quite capable of being easier.

[Duskrequim]

This game could get much easier. Most pick up groups cannot clear the final boss of story mode ops. The game is therefore quite capable of being easier.

 

Or First boss... if trying to do Dread Palace.