Love the concept behind ESO PvP.. Thoughts for SWTOR?

[Joesixxpack]

The only hope I have for ESO, and yes I have it preordered and cant wait to play. Is that it is not all about the zerg. You can take a small group, raid outlying resources, and make the zerg at the keep a moot point. Wildstar is just what everyone else in this thread has said. I know many people are excited for the arenas, but how do you have successful arenas when all the abilities are AOE?

 

Yeah exactly. Betas had zerg fests and I'm chalking that up partly to the low levels in beta factor. There was also intelligent small group stuff going on and some strategizing that caught my interest.

 

I'm waiting to see how it shapes up, zergs rolling around like PS2 bores the hell out of me.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Joesixxpack

[TechTheHic]

Even GW2 and Warhammer Online had the same thing going on, to have smaller bands attacking secondary objectives and resources.

 

No one ever bothers. The zerg is all there is.

 

EDIT: But you never know, they might have struck a happy balance with ESO. If RvR is your thing, I'm not gonna stop you from playing and I hope you enjoy yourself.

 

The difference from GW2 is the fact that the zerg cannot just rez easily on the spot and keep its huge numbers. It requires crystals and is very risky to try to perform the rez. They can set up tents, but those can easily be destroyed by a roaming small group that finds them, and that caused them to have to run from their nearest friendly keep; which in Cyrodiil, that run equates tot he time of running across the largest map in GW2, just from one keep to another. Thats when the fun begins for guys like me, cutting off the reinforcements. You also can only damage keeps with seige weapons so no whacking on the door, so the numbers are less effective as there is only so many siege weapons you can fit in an area and still be able to hit a specific point. Those weapons can also be destroyed.

 

Only thing you have to watch when cutting off reinforcements is the zergs can be really dumb and all attack the front door while defenders drop oil on their head, killing them in droves. We were on vent making fun of them for it but it also meant that you could be jumping in front of a huge rush of players, zerging back to where they died. Good thing everyone can sneak and it is much easier for the more nimble, smaller group to do.

 

Obviously, there is strength in numbers but having a brain pays off. Its no different here when you have the PUGs single file respawning and just running right back at the enemy without waiting to regroup. Or if they over commit to have more players in the mass zerg, a lot of times we had success with a small group of us (ESO, a small group is like 20!) attacking enemy keeps away from the zerg and taking it before the enemy could react as they would rely on getting their mass numbers. Once ran a scroll that we captured back, and as the zerg tried to come intercept, it gave our much smaller zerg (DC on Azuras Star was considerably smaller) a window where they pushed and regained a keep.

 

Our smaller faction owned probably 40% of the map at the end of the last beta while EP (appeared to be second smallest/argest) had another 40% and the huge zerg that happened to be AD who was trying to fight both us and EP were left with pretty much their minimum after they had dominated most the map earlier that morning.

 

Will I eventually get bored of it? I don't know. I do know I am already bored of the 4v4 8v8 small scale crap so I will enjoy it while I can.

[madtycoon]

Big persistence battles = zergfests

 

zergfests aren't fun

 

If they could make it none zergy, then that would be different.

 

I don't think it would work in this game.

Edited March 27, 2014 by madtycoon

[TechTheHic]

Big persistence battles = zergfests

 

zergfests aren't fun

 

If they could make it none zergy, then that would be different.

 

I don't think it would work in this game.

 

Small instanced battels = getting queued with derps = derpfests

 

derpfests aren't fun.

 

They try to make it non derpy by dumbing things down here. It doesn't work. Can't stop the derp.

[Joesixxpack]

Small instanced battels = getting queued with derps = derpfests

 

derpfests aren't fun.

 

They try to make it non derpy by dumbing things down here. It doesn't work. Can't stop the derp.

 

Got any ranged recommendations? I stuck with just one char to level quicker, tanky melee.

[TechTheHic]

Got any ranged recommendations? I stuck with just one char to level quicker, tanky melee.

 

Depends on what you want to do. Class wise, sorc, templar and NB all have ranged abilities, but more so the first 2. dragon knight, not so much, but has a pull. You can always use a bow or destro staff no matter what class you use. Bow abilities use stamina and staffs use magika. Every class ability uses magika.

 

I will say that I think you are better off stacking magika and using magika based abilities for your damage, as your stamina pool is used for dodge, cc break, sprinting and blocking and I prefer to reserve most of my stamina for those, but you can certainly make use of a couple stamina based abilities for CCs or other utility and be fine, (after all, dont want to hammer your magika pool too much either.)

 

There are tons we could go over. You have a guild? I can try to get you in mine if you want.

[Joesixxpack]

Depends on what you want to do. Class wise, sorc, templar and NB all have ranged abilities, but more so the first 2. dragon knight, not so much, but has a pull. You can always use a bow or destro staff no matter what class you use. Bow abilities use stamina and staffs use magika. Every class ability uses magika.

 

I will say that I think you are better off stacking magika and using magika based abilities for your damage, as your stamina pool is used for dodge, cc break, sprinting and blocking and I prefer to reserve most of my stamina for those, but you can certainly make use of a couple stamina based abilities for CCs or other utility and be fine, (after all, dont want to hammer your magika pool too much either.)

 

There are tons we could go over. You have a guild? I can try to get you in mine if you want.

 

Tried staffs and bows a bit with DK for the hell of it, the any weapon thing is a nice feature, and figured sorc for next go. Thanks man I'll hit you up when I get the game, will be rather busy around launch time and may end up ordering it a bit later.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Joesixxpack

[Ashuranrx]

Small instanced battels = getting queued with derps = derpfests

 

derpfests aren't fun.

 

They try to make it non derpy by dumbing things down here. It doesn't work. Can't stop the derp.

 

Wait until you have the derps on your side in ESO's PvP. The true original definition of steam rolling will be shown in its full glory.

[TechTheHic]

Wait until you have the derps on your side in ESO's PvP. The true original definition of steam rolling will be shown in its full glory.

 

They are already there, but since it is such a large area, you don't have to be with them and since you have so many people, you can still make sure you have a group of competent players large enough to not need them. They make a great distraction, though.

 

I wonder if there will ever be a complaint about premades in AvAvA. lol

Edited March 27, 2014 by TechTheHic

[Ashuranrx]

ESO's PvP is going to crash in 3 months, then people will either come back to SWTOR or try Wildstar.

 

If you think this game is imbalanced, wait until you see a good PvPer become emperor, respec to AoE nukes, hide in a group of tanks, healers, and other AoE nukers, and wipe opposing raids of 10 times the number. It will be like the good old Bright Wizard AoE nuking days in WAR. It will be hilarious.

 

SWTOR PvP is best out in the current market, despite its flaws. Now if only we can get 8v8 ranked WZ back instead of the dumb arenas, it will be even better.

[madtycoon]

Small instanced battels = getting queued with derps = derpfests

 

derpfests aren't fun.

 

They try to make it non derpy by dumbing things down here. It doesn't work. Can't stop the derp.

 

Group queue.

 

Dumbing things down just encourages derp instead of forcing people to get better.

 

Big battles means one player doesn't have as much control over the outcome. Its an MMO so you play with others. I would rather play with others small scale where your personal team play matters more.

 

Big battles would not work in SWTOR. Engine and player base aside. People would get vaporized instantly. Healing isn't strong enough. People take too much damage for their health pool. 8 guys decide to target someone even with guard, that person is going to die instantly.

[TechTheHic]

ESO's PvP is going to crash in 3 months, then people will either come back to SWTOR or try Wildstar.

 

If you think this game is imbalanced, wait until you see a good PvPer become emperor, respec to AoE nukes, hide in a group of tanks, healers, and other AoE nukers, and wipe opposing raids of 10 times the number. It will be like the good old Bright Wizard AoE nuking days in WAR. It will be hilarious.

 

SWTOR PvP is best out in the current market, despite its flaws. Now if only we can get 8v8 ranked WZ back instead of the dumb arenas, it will be even better.

 

They better have lots of free time, because as soon as they lose all their keeps around the imperial city, they lose emporer. Gonna need it because both opposing sides will be coming for those Already seen it happen.

 

At any rate; I don't know that 6 months to a year without balance is the norm for most games. I know it is here.

 

See, its funny. Everyone will come up with their reason for the game to be bad and look at the flaws, but yet gloss over the flaws of the game they choose to play. Amazing really.

Edited March 27, 2014 by TechTheHic

[Ashuranrx]

They better have lots of free time, because as soon as they lose all their keeps around the imperial city, they lose emporer. Gonna need it because both opposing sides will be coming for those Already seen it happen.

 

At any rate; I don't know that 6 months to a year without balance is the norm for most games. I know it is here.

 

Yes, you brought up another good point. If you are not a hardcore PvPer with a lot of free time, then forget about competing with the hardcore people in ESO. The hardcore people will get their emperor first and likely to keep him. Then it is up the hardcores in your faction to take the emperor down. If you have less than 10 hours of playtime per week, you won't contribute much and will likely get rolled by the hardcore when you try to do anything meaningful in your limited play time.

 

The fact is that there are more casual players than hardcore players in the world. Most people have lives outside games. If the game is not catered to casual, the population is going to crash sooner or later.

[Volthammer]

ESO PvP is exactly like that of GW2 massive groups that is not really OpenWorld PvP its just a huge battleground that you que up for and you could never really find a 1v1 or atleast a 1v2 its more like 1v25+ in my experience with GW2 i got tired of it that style of PvP when you run one direction and find yourself head on to a group of 25+ chasing you across the entire map to kill you

 

You hit the bullseye, man. I was actually about to say nearly the same thing about GW2 when I saw your post. If ESO has that type of open world castle siege PvP it will end up just like GW2.

[TechTheHic]

Yes, you brought up another good point. If you are not a hardcore PvPer with a lot of free time, then forget about competing with the hardcore people in ESO. The hardcore people will get their emperor first and likely to keep him. Then it is up the hardcores in your faction to take the emperor down. If you have less than 10 hours of playtime per week, you won't contribute much and will likely get rolled by the hardcore when you try to do anything meaningful in your limited play time.

 

The fact is that there are more casual players than hardcore players in the world. Most people have lives outside games. If the game is not catered to casual, the population is going to crash sooner or later.

 

LOL I'm sure that is completely exclusive to ESO and has not presence here.

 

No. Wait. All you hear about all the time is the complaining about bads or the big bad premades here. It really is no different. "hardcore" players steamrolling "bads."

 

Seriously. The only differences will be the venue and the size and scale. Different types of games exist the same in both games and there will be some imbalances in both games. Advantage I find, is any game other than this one, the plan goes beyond just "no."

[Astyannax]

OWPvP is wanted by a lot players. Unfortunatly, untill devs don't do anything about the game engine, it won't be possible to have massive fight with more than 10 FPS.

So... forget about that.

[Zakmonster]

The difference from GW2 is the fact that the zerg cannot just rez easily on the spot and keep its huge numbers. It requires crystals and is very risky to try to perform the rez. They can set up tents, but those can easily be destroyed by a roaming small group that finds them, and that caused them to have to run from their nearest friendly keep; which in Cyrodiil, that run equates tot he time of running across the largest map in GW2, just from one keep to another. Thats when the fun begins for guys like me, cutting off the reinforcements. You also can only damage keeps with seige weapons so no whacking on the door, so the numbers are less effective as there is only so many siege weapons you can fit in an area and still be able to hit a specific point. Those weapons can also be destroyed.

 

Only thing you have to watch when cutting off reinforcements is the zergs can be really dumb and all attack the front door while defenders drop oil on their head, killing them in droves. We were on vent making fun of them for it but it also meant that you could be jumping in front of a huge rush of players, zerging back to where they died. Good thing everyone can sneak and it is much easier for the more nimble, smaller group to do.

 

Obviously, there is strength in numbers but having a brain pays off. Its no different here when you have the PUGs single file respawning and just running right back at the enemy without waiting to regroup. Or if they over commit to have more players in the mass zerg, a lot of times we had success with a small group of us (ESO, a small group is like 20!) attacking enemy keeps away from the zerg and taking it before the enemy could react as they would rely on getting their mass numbers. Once ran a scroll that we captured back, and as the zerg tried to come intercept, it gave our much smaller zerg (DC on Azuras Star was considerably smaller) a window where they pushed and regained a keep.

 

Our smaller faction owned probably 40% of the map at the end of the last beta while EP (appeared to be second smallest/argest) had another 40% and the huge zerg that happened to be AD who was trying to fight both us and EP were left with pretty much their minimum after they had dominated most the map earlier that morning.

 

Will I eventually get bored of it? I don't know. I do know I am already bored of the 4v4 8v8 small scale crap so I will enjoy it while I can.

 

 

Ok, this sounds pretty interesting and involved. I still won't play it, because I dislike Open World PvP, but it will be worth watching a stream or two.

[Vodrin]

ESO = cluster **** PvP. There's no skill, it's just who has more AoE and more players.

 

That is unfortunately the nature of most "mass" PvP, at least how it has been executed to this point. GW2 was very similar in concept to ESO, and the unsatisfying thing about GW2 was that it rarely felt as if some clutch ability activation carried the day. It usually just felt like CC and AoE spam with superior numbers won.

[Vodrin]

ESO's PvP is going to crash in 3 months, then people will either come back to SWTOR or try Wildstar.

 

If you think this game is imbalanced, wait until you see a good PvPer become emperor, respec to AoE nukes, hide in a group of tanks, healers, and other AoE nukers, and wipe opposing raids of 10 times the number. It will be like the good old Bright Wizard AoE nuking days in WAR. It will be hilarious.

 

SWTOR PvP is best out in the current market, despite its flaws. Now if only we can get 8v8 ranked WZ back instead of the dumb arenas, it will be even better.

 

I thought GW2 in it's early editions was better PvP. The gear grind for open world has become pretty bad now, and the way that bunker builds function makes instanced PvP much less dynamic that it could be. That's why I came back. I also just could never get into the setting.

[L-RANDLE]

So my question is:

 

About ESO,

Is PvP good enough to leave SWTOR, or is SWTOR that bad and ESO is the lesser of two evils?

 

In other news, people still showing up in SWTOR WZS with 1300EXP and the Devs said "No" to anything concerning PvP.

 

 

Not sure what to do...

[ThorgrimLutgen]

......................Whats your thoughts?...............

 

None whatsoever in relation to SWTOR, just idling away my game time waiting for my sub to run out, early access starts this weekend.

[TechTheHic]

So my question is:

 

About ESO,

Is PvP good enough to leave SWTOR, or is SWTOR that bad and ESO is the lesser of two evils?

 

In other news, people still showing up in SWTOR WZS with 1300EXP and the Devs said "No" to anything concerning PvP.

 

 

Not sure what to do...

L, there is a lot there between all the skills and armor types to where you could crunch numbers to your hearts content. That's how I have been passing the time lately.

 

They also do have a "bolster system to an extent in AvAvA but you get buffed about to the level of a level 40 so level 50s do outmatch you, but I have seen the lower level win with getting surprise on the first attack if they are good and the 50 not so much, and since there are so many numbers, it is not as noticeable being a low level running around.

 

Gear is gear. There is no PvE or PvP specific gear. You can get the best from either avenue as well as crafting.

Edited March 28, 2014 by TechTheHic

[Joesixxpack]

So my question is:

 

About ESO,

Is PvP good enough to leave SWTOR, or is SWTOR that bad and ESO is the lesser of two evils?

 

In other news, people still showing up in SWTOR WZS with 1300EXP and the Devs said "No" to anything concerning PvP.

 

 

Not sure what to do...

 

Good enough that I'll be double-subbing at some point to check it out further.

 

I'd link you a PVP vid but they all seem to feature backpeddlers fighting NPCs

[L-RANDLE]

L, there is a lot there between all the skills and armor types to where you could crunch numbers to your hearts content. That's how I have been passing the time lately.

 

They also do have a "bolster system to an extent in AvAvA but you get buffed about to the level of a level 40 so level 50s do outmatch you, but I have seen the lower level win with getting surprise on the first attack if they are good and the 50 not so much, and since there are so many numbers, it is not as noticeable being a low level running around.

 

Gear is gear. There is no PvE or PvP specific gear. You can get the best from either avenue as well as crafting.

 

Maybe I should give it w whirl. I guess there is no point in beating this dead horse.

 

Damn shame, it is..

[Jcorden]

OWPvP is wanted by a lot players. Unfortunatly, untill devs don't do anything about the game engine, it won't be possible to have massive fight with more than 10 FPS.

So... forget about that.

 

/QFT.

/Agree.