Get rid of Damage Overcharge Powerup!

[Armonddd]

Threads like this are just such a waste.

 

I'm sorry not everyone conforms to your idea of fun.

[SammyGStatus]

I'm sorry not everyone conforms to your idea of fun.

 

Don't apologize. I forgive you

[Itkovian]

Assuming that the person with damage over charge can't be one shotted by a GS... But 90% of the time if you're a scout and I see you going for a damage overcharge, you're either sniped outta the sky approaching it, or getting sniped right after it's picked up. Damage doesn't increase evasion, so they're ability to be shot at isn't diminished. Kill them before they kill you (hence the purpose of TDM)

 

When all they're doing is zipping around to get power ups, odds are they're not even close to where the fighting is, and you're not going to be there to shoot them.

 

That's the whole point of the zippy build and the tactic. You ignore the fighting that's going on, and focus on the power ups. And you won't see it being picked up until he's zooming back in the fight and killing everything.

 

And no, "killing him" is not the proper counter. That's what you're supposed to be doing in the first place anyway. You might as well say that for every single broken balance issues (Ion Railgun unbalance? Kill the gunship, problem solved!)... it doesn't actually address the problem.

[Kuciwalker]

I would be happy if damage overcharge were nerfed to be about as powerful as engine overcharge (and blaster/shield overcharge buffed to the same).

 

Ideas:

 

• Damage overcharge reduced to a ~50% buff. Still deadly.
  
• Shield overcharge now negates all shield piercing.
  
• Blaster overcharge... I don't know. Blaster power just isn't usually an important limiting factor. Even giving infinite blaster power for the entire 45s wouldn't be all that useful. The ammo reload is nice, but doesn't help if you don't have missiles.
  

[Armonddd]

• Blaster overcharge... I don't know. Blaster power just isn't usually an important limiting factor. Even giving infinite blaster power for the entire 45s wouldn't be all that useful. The ammo reload is nice, but doesn't help if you don't have missiles.
  

 

Maybe increased rate of fire for the duration? That'd make it similar to DO, in a sense (but, c'mon, how different can two offensive powerups get), though fire rate and damage per shot are two very different statistics with different implications on the battle (thus the problems with railguns and BLC).

[Nemarus]

I would be happy if damage overcharge were nerfed to be about as powerful as engine overcharge (and blaster/shield overcharge buffed to the same).

 

Ideas:

 

• Damage overcharge reduced to a ~50% buff. Still deadly.
  
• Shield overcharge now negates all shield piercing.
  
• Blaster overcharge... I don't know. Blaster power just isn't usually an important limiting factor. Even giving infinite blaster power for the entire 45s wouldn't be all that useful. The ammo reload is nice, but doesn't help if you don't have missiles.
  

 

Well, to be clear, BioWare's intent is that Damage Overcharge is not a peer to the other three. Damage Overcharge has its own set of exclusive spawn locations--you'll never find a recharge power-up at the same location as where a DO could spawn. Plus all the DO spawns are located in the middle 50% of the map (east to west)--whereas the recharge power-ups are interspersed more evenly across the map.

 

Plus there's the banner "X has Damage Overcharge!" which doesn't exist for the other power-ups.

 

Looking back at the 2.6 patch notes, the power-ups are described as such:

 

Engine Overcharge – Doubles engine power regen rate, increases ship speed by 30%, increases ship defense by 15%, refills engine power to full on pickup.

Weapon Overcharge – Doubles blaster power regen rate, refills blaster power to full on pickup.

Shield Overcharge– Doubles shield power regen rate, eliminates shield recently consumed regen delay, refills shields to full on pickup.

Damage Overcharge– Doubles damage from all primary and secondary non–drone weapons.

 

Personally, it feels like DO is doing a lot more than double damage to me. If my HLC normally hits for 300ish unbuffed, I feel like it hits for over 1000 with DO--feels like triple.

 

As for the recharge power-ups, when viewed against each other, Engine and Shield seem pretty even.

 

I didn't even know Engine Overcharge increased base speed and evasion. That's pretty huge.

 

I also was pleased to see Shield Overcharge gets rid of the regen delay. That is also pretty huge and even has some implications on the Regen vs. Turbo reactor debate for some builds. That being said, I like the idea of Shield Overcharge preventing all shield-piercing.

 

Blaster Overcharge does remain the weakest link (though the ammo refill is huge). Perhaps adding a small DOT or shield piercing component to each hit would make it a bit more interesting.

[SammyGStatus]

When all they're doing is zipping around to get power ups, odds are they're not even close to where the fighting is, and you're not going to be there to shoot them.

 

That's the whole point of the zippy build and the tactic. You ignore the fighting that's going on, and focus on the power ups. And you won't see it being picked up until he's zooming back in the fight and killing everything.

 

And no, "killing him" is not the proper counter. That's what you're supposed to be doing in the first place anyway. You might as well say that for every single broken balance issues (Ion Railgun unbalance? Kill the gunship, problem solved!)... it doesn't actually address the problem.

 

No, the solution for Ion Railgun is "Dont get hit".... These aren't broken problems, but are resulting from a lack of tactical care. IF YOU SEE THE NOTICE THAT SOMEONE HAS DAMAGE OVERCHARGE AND HE'S MESSING THINGS UP FOR YOUR TEAM, HAVE YOUR TEAM COORDINATE TO KILL HIM. Otherwise, evade him until he's no longer supercharged. Finally, I'll hit a scout who's returning to the fray, so I will be there to shoot them.

 

ALSO, if they're zipping around getting power ups, the other team is playing with a man down. Use numbers, take of the opposition, and then take out the dude with DO if he's causing issues. IDK why people are having trouble with this - dont get hit, and kill them first. Coordinate. I play like 15 matches a day on multiple toons and never have felt that the shift in power from DO couldn't be overcome, and overcome quite easily.

 

To be fair, when I'm running with a premade, they let me get the DO because my GS will clear the enemy team at least once, but again if I can't hit you, you shouldn't be concerned about the damage I can do

[Altheran]

Personally, it feels like DO is doing a lot more than double damage to me. If my HLC normally hits for 300ish unbuffed, I feel like it hits for over 1000 with DO--feels like triple.

 

I confirm this feeling. Neither my Starguard HLC, nor my NovaDive LC, nor my Flashfire LLC, hit for 500, yet under DO it hits for 1000-1200. Also OS-ed a scout with Clusters alone (1% hull remained, but DoT finished him) and seen my Concussive destroy a Bomber with 3000+ hit (could have destroyed him with the blasters, but I wanted to see the missile damage for the lulz).

 

None of these situations would be possible if DO didn't gave +200% instead of the +100% like mentionned in the notes

Edited March 19, 2014 by Altheran

[Kuciwalker]

Well, to be clear, BioWare's intent is that Damage Overcharge is not a peer to the other three.

 

I know. I am proposing to change that, or at least reduce the delta.

[Cekis]

But here's the problem: the damage overcharge is so good and its presence is such a huge gamechanger, especially against uninformed opponents (of which there are many, because wut's matchmaking), that you are almost guaranteed a better K/D ratio if you hunt out red dots for most of the match than if you hunt out enemy ships. And in a game match that is all about KDR, well, that's kind of a problem.

 

Disagree - if you waste your time hunting red dots, you will get outscored. Balance wins in this mode. Fight for a bit and if you come across one while fighting - GO GET IT.

 

This is called a dominant strategy, and it's bad game design.

 

Regardless of what you may think is the dominant strategy - I don't play that way and generally end up on the top of the list - check with our other guildies as I typically don't see you online. Because my strat is different... and I tend to hold my own... this mode can't possibly have a dominant strategy. Sorry, but that argument is not valid.

 

This is why we as players are so eager for new content. And when the content is just rehashed versions of what we've already done with few changes, well, it's simply not as interesting.

 

Agreed, but I'm not finding boredom with GSF just yet... and it's holding my interest a lot longer than other games. I think the point here is that everybody gets bored with everything, eventually. Not sure who this Jesse guy is, but I'm not about to take one man's opinion and experience in game design as gospel... only guideline. Game design is not necessarily something that's "figured out"... if it was, we'd all be playing whatever game that was. And we're not... soo.....

 

Flying in space PvP is generally interesting because you're never sure what the other team is going to do. Each combination of enemy pilots and enemy ships provides a different challenge, and there's often different solutions. That's why I love PvP; no two fights (against skilled opponents) are alike, and I have to adjust my tactics on the fly if I want to win. It's challenging and interesting.

 

Powerups don't kill that. Adjust to the game and you'll find it gets better. If you can't adjust to TDM because of the powerups, I'm sure you're not alone, that inability to adjust should not be basis of the rallying call to change the game.

 

But when the dominant strategy is found, matches become predictable -- and when gameplay is predictable, it becomes stale and boring.

 

GSF is moderately predictable, but that's not because of the powerups. For example, you get 2 or more of us in a match and it's pretty much a for sure thing that we're going to win. You know this. Same thing if I get Zuchi in a match, I know there's a high probability that he's going to out maneuver me and hit me with that lovely sab'd blaster combo, but powerups don't make us win - our ability to play does.

 

There's no challenge or surprise in picking up a blackbolt and zooming around the map looking for damage overcharge, then turning my lasers on whichever poor saps happen to be closest. The same thing happens every time: I fly along this path, I pick up the big red dot, I hit tab, I boost to the nearest enemy, and I click on him twice. Continue tabbing until DO runs out, then go back to searching for red dots. Hell, a bot could do that -- why should I?

 

You don't have to. But... if you don't, you're putting yourself and your team at a disadvantage. If you play the game as it's meant to be played (i.e. just what you described above), you have a 50/50 chance at winning if teams are balanced (and oh boy, queue team balance is a whole other argument).

 

I also strongly disagree with the concept of powerups, especially in a story-based game like SWTOR.

 

That's moderately a role-play argument. PvP is not roleplay (typically). I know you know this, but just trying to put some perspective on what's relevant and what isn't.

 

Why do they exist?

 

To add dimension to the game.

 

Why do they defy gravity?

 

Huh? Where? Kuat? This is space... however, they may be chemically balanced in such a way that negates gravity... wait, why am I explaining this?!?!

 

Why are they so powerful?

 

Meh... they're powerful, but short lived... I've had the scenario several times where I can't get a kill because I end up focusing on a single pilot too long (i.e. map running). I've also had the opposite scenario (yesterday) where 5 pilots line up in front of me and I pick each of them off in just a few shots.

 

Where the hell were they on the Death Star runs?

 

More RP.

 

I agree that there needs to be some element preventing people from forming killballs and rolling across the map, but I think shiny powerup balls were the wrong answer... and when they're so powerful as to form a dominant strategy, well, the whole system is just bad and needs to be reworked.

 

COMPLETELY DISAGREE.... I like it as it is... GSF is wonderful! No change necessary (from a gameplay standpoint)... that being said, each is entitled to their own opinion, but if things were changed, I would be equally discouraged to not keep playing as you may be now. Also, more depth in the game is always welcome. It's not like this is the first incarnation of Ilum all over again for God sakes.

 

*Not liable for asses lost as a result of foolish bets placed with parties including but not limited to Satan.

 

Uh... well... right... I think...

[Cekis]

No, the solution for Ion Railgun is "Dont get hit".... These aren't broken problems, but are resulting from a lack of tactical care. IF YOU SEE THE NOTICE THAT SOMEONE HAS DAMAGE OVERCHARGE AND HE'S MESSING THINGS UP FOR YOUR TEAM, HAVE YOUR TEAM COORDINATE TO KILL HIM. Otherwise, evade him until he's no longer supercharged. Finally, I'll hit a scout who's returning to the fray, so I will be there to shoot them.

 

ALSO, if they're zipping around getting power ups, the other team is playing with a man down. Use numbers, take of the opposition, and then take out the dude with DO if he's causing issues. IDK why people are having trouble with this - dont get hit, and kill them first. Coordinate. I play like 15 matches a day on multiple toons and never have felt that the shift in power from DO couldn't be overcome, and overcome quite easily.

 

To be fair, when I'm running with a premade, they let me get the DO because my GS will clear the enemy team at least once, but again if I can't hit you, you shouldn't be concerned about the damage I can do

 

I like this... a lot.

[Zharik]

No, the solution for Ion Railgun is "Dont get hit"...

 

Ummm you know that means you are not allowed to fly near friendlies then? Including turrets, bombers and other things that really have zero evasion because the AOE will hit you automatically.

 

Your solution applies to anything that is imbalanced and is not feasible.

[Armonddd]

That's moderately a role-play argument. PvP is not roleplay (typically). I know you know this, but just trying to put some perspective on what's relevant and what isn't.

 

You say that like the game would be just as fun if it were a story about fluffy bunnies fighting paperclips in a CDC lab.

 

(I've addressed literally all of the rest of your comments elsewhere, so forgive me if I don't repeat myself.)