The BattleZone Winner's Bracket Match 5: Ulic Qel-Droma vs. Plo Koon

[tunewalker]

Fair enough, I agree. He does seem a bit slow in that regard. Mostly because most of his screen time where he did projectile-throwing was in the earlier TCW episodes, before the animation got really good.

 

Anywho, I'll think about this and make a decision on Monday.

 

It should be noted though, if I am not mistaken in the comics Koon has been shown doing this stuff with out looking at the object and even while engaging in a saber lock. The object itself still moves at a good speed and if he can swing a sword and lift objects simultaneously it doenst matter how slow he lifts it, that's not what makes it dodgable or not, it matters its speed after thrown the persons ability to react to it and evade getting sliced in half at the same time. He has beaten faster opponents and am positive he has hit faster opponents with projectiles as well... though admittedly I am not sure of an instance, if I am wrong I am wrong.

[Beniboybling]

Strength, your statement clearly showed you saying Ulic and Koon are equal strength with out Dark Rage, and that rage on top of it puts Droma ahead.

 

 

Edit "Dark rage grossly bolsters a Force wielders physical capabilities beyond anything a Jedi of near equal power can achieve."

Right here you are clearly assuming Koon and Ulic are near equal power in Force Bolster pre Dark Rage, but with out feats to back that up, we cant assume that.

I don't even... I only said that because you argued that Ulic and Koon were near equal strength. In reality bolstered by Force Rage or not I believe Ulic is a demonstrably more powerful Force User and therefore naturally superior in strength to Koon. Near equal power is merely acknowledging what you've been yapping on about Ulic and Koon being near equals all this time. And when I acknowledge that I'm told I'm wrong? What a world.

 

Anyway I don't really much care. When you compare these individuals Force Abilities side by side you have to accept that they are at the very least near equal in power, I certainly fail to see any powers Koon has outstripped Ulic in. However I give Ulic a physical edge because of his superior ability to divert that power into physical ability through Force Rage, which as a Jedi is something Koon cannot do. Nor is he highly skilled in Force valor.

[Beniboybling]

Fair enough, I agree. He does seem a bit slow in that regard. Mostly because most of his screen time where he did projectile-throwing was in the earlier TCW episodes, before the animation got really good.

 

Anywho, I'll think about this and make a decision on Monday.

Yeah I'm not sure I buy that, I don't remember it getting faster.

 

Anyway its not really important, picking up an object and throwing it at someone is a pretty time consuming process. You don't see people getting caught of guard by these attacks, they just can't get out of the way.

 

But I feel because Ulic is exceptionally fast he'll be able to get out of the way, or just throw them back at him - which as a Sith Lord he is more than capable of. He may not use his powers much in battle but I assume he has skill.

[Aurbere]

Yeah I'm not sure I buy that, I don't remember it getting faster.

 

Anyway its not really important, picking up an object and throwing it at someone is a pretty time consuming process. You don't see people getting caught of guard by these attacks, they just can't get out of the way.

 

But I feel because Ulic is exceptionally fast he'll be able to get out of the way, or just throw them back at him - which as a Sith Lord he is more than capable of. He may not use his powers much in battle but I assume he has skill.

 

Trust me, the show certainly gets a quicker pace and more fluidity as it goes on. It's plainly obvious, man.

[Beniboybling]

Trust me, the show certainly gets a quicker pace and more fluidity as it goes on. It's plainly obvious, man.

Yeah, yeah we're talking about Season 3 here.

[tunewalker]

I don't even... I only said that because you argued that Ulic and Koon were near equal strength. In reality bolstered by Force Rage or not I believe Ulic is a demonstrably more powerful Force User and therefore naturally superior in strength to Koon. Near equal power is merely acknowledging what you've been yapping on about Ulic and Koon being near equals all this time. And when I acknowledge that I'm told I'm wrong? What a world.

 

Anyway I don't really much care. When you compare these individuals Force Abilities side by side you have to accept that they are at the very least near equal in power, I certainly fail to see any powers Koon has outstripped Ulic in. However I give Ulic a physical edge because of his superior ability to divert that power into physical ability through Force Rage, which as a Jedi is something Koon cannot do. Nor is he highly skilled in Force valor.

 

Near equal with ALL powers taken into consideration. They are near equal WITH Droma using Rage, that had been my argument from the word go.

[Beniboybling]

I would also like to point out that Ulic could reverse Koon's Force Based attacks like

and in such a way could end up back firing. Koon may have a more refined grasp over TK but Ulic can summon the necessary raw explosions to send them hurtling back at him. Altogether I feel raw power is Ulic's general edge over Koon here.

[tunewalker]

I would also like to point out that Ulic could reverse Koon's Force Based attacks like

and in such a way could end up back firing. Koon may have a more refined grasp over TK but Ulic can summon the necessary raw explosions to send them hurtling back at him. Altogether I feel raw power is Ulic's general edge over Koon here.

 

Smaller objects are harder to do that with, note that was a large object, if Koon throws multiple small objects you need concentrated refined TK or big aoe burst and NOT being caught off gaurd. But yes it might back fire, but I feel it highly unlikely.

[Beniboybling]

Smaller objects are harder to do that with, note that was a large object, if Koon throws multiple small objects you need concentrated refined TK or big aoe burst and NOT being caught off gaurd. But yes it might back fire, but I feel it highly unlikely.

Ulic specialists in such explosions of raw power, he does need refined telekinesis if he can cast wide enough a net. The likelihood of him being caught of guard, what with Koon being incapable of this in-combat and it a fairly time consuming feat is unlikely. Especially considering his lightning fast reflexes. Force Speed being a second option.

[tunewalker]

Ulic specialists in such explosions of raw power, he does need refined telekinesis if he can cast wide enough a net. The likelihood of him being caught of guard, what with Koon being incapable of this in-combat and it a fairly time consuming feat is unlikely. Especially considering his lightning fast reflexes. Force Speed being a second option.

 

I thought koon was capable of this in combat, I will need Aurbere on this one he know more about the character, but I am pretty sure he can do it in combat, and the whole caught off gaurd is likely with the timing stylization, he can force it at just the right time.

[Aurbere]

Update: I'm writing up the verdict right now. I am considering a scenario, but, honestly, it's so close that I'm not sure I could do it 'right.'

 

So, yeah, expect the decision any time now.

[Aurbere]

I'm going to post the final decision tomorrow. If you have anything else to say, this is your last chance.

[Aurbere]

Sorry for the delay! Here's the final decision.

 

 

 

Like I noted in the analysis, they are similar yet very different duelists. Ulic Qel-Droma embraces the Djem So philosophy of dominating the combat through strength. Plo Koon embodies the precept of establishing peace through superior firepower. Ulic primarily relies of unrelenting and overpowering strength to dominate his foes. Plo Koon’s method is stayed and conservative, focusing his efforts on timing and precision to minimize his movements and focus on the attacks that actually require his attention. Both methods have merit and both are viable in combat. A decision can be made here based on preference, but debating the merits of the philosophical branches of a combat style is not the purpose of this decision. What actually matters is their skill in the combat style.

 

Ulic Qel-Droma is an insanely skilled lightsaber duelist and easily one of the best of his era. This is most clearly shown in his duel with Exar Kun. They were very much equals in their duel, brief as it was. Just as impressive was Ulic’s ability to engage an enraged Force-sensitive duelist, despite his own lack of Force-sensitivity, relying on pure instinct and natural skill.

 

On the other hand, Plo Koon is a decorated duelist as well, despite him lacking in the number of live-combat lightsaber duels. His duel with Asajj Ventress is a clear indication of his skill. Despite suffering from a broken arm, Koon was more than a match for the Dark Jedi, even disarming her. When we consider Ventress’ accolades and Form V’s use, we can see that this is no small feat.

 

In the end, Ulic Qel-Droma is the superior duelist, but only by a small margin, which makes the edge almost negligible.

 

Physically speaking, there is little to say here. While Plo Koon does have ridiculous pain tolerance, he is at a severe physical disadvantage. Ulic Qel-Droma is stronger and tougher than Plo Koon is. Koon can tolerate severe pain, but he can’t actually take injuries like Ulic can. As far as speed goes, they are comparable. Neither holds an advantage in that field. But this isn’t even accounting for their weaknesses. Ulic does suffer from a permanent injury that can start to bleed given enough stress. However, this has happened before and his fighting ability was not impeded by it. On the other hand, if Plo Koon’s mask were to be removed or damaged, he will die. Ulic is simply physically superior.

 

Both of them are excellent tacticians, but Plo Koon is clearly the superior combat tactician. His preferred tactic, waiting for vulnerabilities to be revealed and quickly striking them, works perfectly with his application of Form V. Plo Koon is smarter than Ulic in this context.

 

Finally, their Force Abilities. Plo Koon is clearly a superior Force user. He has developed a superior mastery of the Force, a greater variety of abilities to use, and he is more willing to use these abilities in combat. While it can be argued that Ulic can match Plo Koon’s combative applications, he is still lacking in mastery and variety.

 

But how do they stack up?

 

Whether or not Ulic is the superior duelist is irrelevant. When comparing two Form V masters, what truly matters is strength. In that case, Ulic clearly takes the advantage in close quarters combat, but this is by no means definite. Plo Koon’s tactical approach to combat complements his fighting style, and he can more than use that to stand up to Ulic’s attacks.

 

Force Abilities can often decide who wins. However, that is not the case here. Plo Koon is obviously a superior combative Force user right out of the gate, but Ulic can match him blow for blow in this field as their battle goes on.

 

In the end, Plo Koon can engage Ulic on even ground by using all of his tools to his advantage, but he would be unable to make up for Ulic’s superior close-quarters abilities. The chance for Plo Koon to win is certainly there through the use of his Force abilities. However, Plo Koon and Ulic are both warriors, so lightsaber combat will be the focus of their combat. With that in mind, Plo Koon can hold his own and make Ulic work for it, with the possibility of winning, but Ulic is the superior close-quarters fighter.

 

I declare Ulic Qel-Droma the winner!

 

 

Thoughts and Conclusion:

 

 

This was not an easy decision to make. They are both similar in many ways, but it turned out that Ulic was the superior warrior. The decision was very close. 51/49. Neither individual would come out of this match-up unscathed. They would be pushed to their absolute limits, and either of them could come out on top.

 

So thank you to those who participated! Stay tuned for the next match in the tournament.

 

[Beniboybling]

I'm glad you came to a decision, and of course I agree.

 

And will the next matchup premiere before the demo match as ended?

Edited May 4, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

I'm glad you came to a decision, and of course I agree.

 

And will the next matchup premiere before the demo match as ended?

 

Probably not. I only put the demo up because we were waiting for Tune's final argument so I wanted to keep everyone else busy.

[rafaelloaa]

Probably not. I only put the demo up because we were waiting for Tune's final argument so I wanted to keep everyone else busy.

 

Is there a "hub thread" where I can see all the matchups/brackets? The closest I can find is the thread entitled "A New Versus Series!", but there are no links to other matches there.

 

Thank you for all the hard work you've put into this! I have a blast reading all these threads.

[tunewalker]

Is there a "hub thread" where I can see all the matchups/brackets? The closest I can find is the thread entitled "A New Versus Series!", but there are no links to other matches there.

 

Thank you for all the hard work you've put into this! I have a blast reading all these threads.

 

If I recall the match ups are shown as they come out. he has the brackets written down, but has told no one what they are to keep it suspensful for us.

[Aurbere]

Is there a "hub thread" where I can see all the matchups/brackets? The closest I can find is the thread entitled "A New Versus Series!", but there are no links to other matches there.

 

Thank you for all the hard work you've put into this! I have a blast reading all these threads.

 

I generally don't post brackets simply because I want to keep everyone guessing what the next match will be. However, sine you asked, here's a list of the previous matches (winner in parenthesis):

 

Thon vs. Vodo-Siosk Baas (Thon)

Darth Malak vs. Darth Nyriss (Darth Nyriss)

Lord Vitiate vs. Darth Plagueis (Darth Plagueis)

Shaak Ti vs. Luminara Unduli (Shaak Ti)

Qui-Gon Jinn vs. Plo Koon (Plo Koon)

Kit Fisto vs. Agen Kolar (Kit Fisto)

Darth Maul vs. Asajj Ventress (Asajj Ventress)

Quinlan Vos vs. Savage Opress (Savage Opress)

Sora Bulq vs. Darth Vader (Darth Vader)

Darth Malgus vs. Obi-Wan Kenobi (Darth Malgus)

Darth Traya vs. Darth Bane (Darth Traya)

Kas'im vs. An'ya Kuro (An'ya Kuro)

Ulic Qel-Droma vs. Darth Zannah (Ulic Qel-Droma)

Cin Drallig vs. Ki-Adi Mundi (Cin Drallig)

Satele Shan vs. Count Dooku (Count Dooku)

Exar Kun vs. Darth Krayt (Exar Kun)

 

Round 2 matches (so far)

 

Kas'im vs. Sora Bulq (Sora Bulq)

Vodo-Siosk Baas vs. Darth Maul (Darth Maul)

Asajj Ventress vs. Shaak Ti (Shaak Ti)

Darth Plagueis vs. Darth Malgus (Darth Plagueis)

Darth Nyriss vs. Darth Vader (Darth Vader)

Kit Fisto vs. Savage Opress (Savage Opress)

Ulic Qel-Droma vs. Plo Koon (Ulic Qel-Droma)

 

If you want to post your thoughts on those matches, go ahead and post in the hub thread. Thoughts are welcome.

 

And I'm glad to see that you enjoy reading these threads!