Mallorik Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 anyone who hates the gameplay but plays because its Star Wars needs to um...check themselves. If everyone that played this game just because its star wars left, you would be very lonely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 If everyone that played this game just because its star wars left, you would be very lonely. See ya, might want to decide what's important to you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 When you constantly make the point that its a dumbed down MMO and then claim it doesn't matter to you...its directly contradictory. LOL, how is it contradictory? If something is dumbed down its dumbed down. Whether I like it or not doesn't change that fact. MMOS were dumbed down for the masses, its pretty much universally accepted by anyone whos mmo experience began before wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 See ya, might want to decide what's important to you as well. LOL, ok Dr. Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) LOL, how is it contradictory? If something is dumbed down its dumbed down. Whether I like it or not doesn't change that fact. MMOS were dumbed down for the masses, its pretty much universally accepted by anyone whos mmo experience began before wow. Sorry the point was lost on you. And I started on FFXI, so trust me, I know how MMOs were. Point is, you state a point that you then claim doesn't matter to you, so why state it at all? Your trying to play both sides of the argument and it doesn't work. Either you accept games have been streamlined and that's the nature of the business...or you make the claim that you wish games weren't as streamlined and you'd rather play something else. Trying to make the argument that game are dumbed down constantly in your statements make it sound like you don't like it. If you don't like it, fine. But you are here playing a dumbed down game, as you claim. So which is it? Is the industry meeting to requirements of the customer and that's how it is, or is dumbing down a bad thing? Pick one. Me...I say the business will meet the demands of its customers as well as carve out their own segment. There are hundreds of games out there. No one is forced to play this game and trying to make the argument that they ONLY play because it Star Wars says 1 of 2 things... 1. People are dumb and can't pick and choose what they like. Is that what you are saying? Or 2. People (MMO gamers with not much to do) like to soap box and claim they know how to fix that game to their own demands....but all the while never admitting they like it. Edited February 21, 2014 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxIncubixx Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 SWTOR is the second MMO on the west... only surpassed by WoW. The reality is that it isnt as bad as most people make it out to be. WoW pvp is a million times worse then swtor was/is. GW2 was a flop compared to gw1 sucess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Sorry the point was lost on you. And I started on FFXI, so trust me, I know how MMOs were. Point is, you state a point that you then claim doesn't matter to you, so why state it at all? Your trying to play both sides of the argument and it doesn't work. Either you accept games have been streamlined and that's the nature of the business...or you make the claim that you wish games weren't as streamlined and you'd rather play something else. Trying to make the argument that game are dumbed down constantly in your statements make it sound like you don't like it. If you don't like it, fine. But you are here playing a dumbed down game, as you claim. So which is it? Is the industry meeting to requirements of the customer and that's how it is, or is dumbing down a bad thing? Pick one. Me...I say the business will meet the demands of its customers as well as carve out their own segment. There are hundreds of games out there. No one is forced to play this game and trying to make the argument that they ONLY play because it Star Wars says 1 of 2 things... 1. People are dumb and can't pick and choose what they like. Is that what you are saying? Or 2. People (MMO gamers with not much to do) like to soap box and claim they know how to fix that game to their own demands....but all the while never admitting they like it. Good god, im not trying to explain quantum physics here. MMOS are easier than they used to be, that is fine in my opinion. They also have a lot more quality of life features and options than they used to, which I think is great. My problem with swtor is they made a modern dumbed down mmo to attract the masses, then left out all the cool quality of life features of modern mmos which in turn ran off the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) I don't really know why you keep saying the dumbing down of mmos is a big concern to me when Ive said atleast twice now directly to you that it was not.What I said is I don't like is an mmo with all the dumbed down features like easy leveling, no death penalties, no unique special gear little chance of ever dying, But with none of the mmo innovations like group finders, dual specs, macros and addons.If one mentions repeatedly that they don't like an MMO with all the dumbed down features, it is either a big concern to them or they're okay with openly contradicting themselves. I'll go by your first statement, which like instincts is typically the correct one. Edited February 21, 2014 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Good god, im not trying to explain quantum physics here. MMOS are easier than they used to be, that is fine in my opinion. They also have a lot more quality of life features and options than they used to, which I think is great. My problem with swtor is they made a modern dumbed down mmo to attract the masses, then left out all the cool quality of life features of modern mmos which in turn ran off the masses. So just to be clear, you're talking about the release, which we all agree was missing features? Or are you taking about now? I'd like to see this official QOL feature list that is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 My mistake. Well did you change your post because you saw your mistake or do you still think I said I just don't like dumbed down mmos? and missed the part where I said dumbed down mmos that don't have the new quality of life features of modern mmos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Well did you change your post because you saw your mistake or do you still think I said I just don't like dumbed down mmos? and missed the part where I said dumbed down mmos that don't have the new quality of life features of modern mmos.Actually, I accidentally hit the Submit button instead of the Preview button. That was my mistake. It reads correctly now. I answered with your own post from this thread and a comment. Edited February 21, 2014 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 So just to be clear, you're talking about the release, which we all agree was missing features? Or are you taking about now? I'd like to see this official QOL feature list that is required. Im talking about both, the devs not knowing enough about mmos to say that they don't think they need a group finder is disturbing. They finally came to their senses but now they say they don't want macros or addons. And what "official QOL feature list"? its up to the devs to decide what features they want in their game, swtor devs chose wrong. Anyway I get the sense that you don't even know what im talking about and ive tried to explain enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Actually, I accidentally hit the Submit button instead of the Preview button. That was my mistake. It reads correctly now. I answered with your own post from this thread and a comment. Yes where I said I don't like dumbed down mmos that have the qol features of an old school mmo. Or in swtors case is even missing old school mmo qol features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Im talking about both, the devs not knowing enough about mmos to say that they don't think they need a group finder is disturbing. They finally came to their senses but now they say they don't want macros or addons. And what "official QOL feature list"? its up to the devs to decide what features they want in their game, swtor devs chose wrong. Anyway I get the sense that you don't even know what im talking about and ive tried to explain enough.Dev was discussing group finder in beta, but put off making a visual GUI for it until other more pressing issues were dealt with. The game shipped with a group finder, it was just a text version. The "They finally came to their senses" about it is inaccurate and harsh. As far as addons are concerned, they never wanted them in the game and stated they weren't going to add them to the game ... ever. I personally feel that their "we never say never' boilerplate response to questions with a no answer is BS. But they aren't just now saying it, and anyone who's been here since the beginning knows that. They've said no for over 2 years and will probably keep saying no. Macros? Personally as long as they were restricted to non-combat I think they should definitely have a place in this game, especially for RP enthusiasts. Edited February 21, 2014 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Dev was discussing group finder in beta, but put off making a visual GUI for it until other more pressing issues were dealt with. The game shipped with a group finder, it was just a text version. The "They finally came to their senses" about it is inaccurate and harsh. As far as addons are concerned, they never wanted them in the game and stated they weren't going to add them to the game ... ever. I personally feel that their "we never say never' boilerplate response to questions with a no answer is BS. But they aren't just now saying it, and anyone who's been here since the beginning knows that. They've said no for over 2 years and will probably keep saying no. Macros? Personally as long as they were restricted to non-combat I think they should definitely have a place in this game, especially for RP enthusiasts. Yeah I said it wrong when I said "now they are saying they don't want addons or macros" I should have said they are still saying it. As for the groupfinder at launch, introducing a text only groupfinder is probably even more ignorant than not having one at all. Since they have never worked in any game that tried them before, making one for swtor was a waste of time. And im not arguing about whether people here like or dislike addons or macros, because quite frankly it doesn't matter what people here like or don't like, they'll play the game anyway. But the vast majority of mmo gamers obviously like them or atleast don't mind them because most mmos have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) Yeah I said it wrong when I said "now they are saying they don't want addons or macros" I should have said they are still saying it. As for the groupfinder at launch, introducing a text only groupfinder is probably even more ignorant than not having one at all. Since they have never worked in any game that tried them before, making one for swtor was a waste of time. And im not arguing about whether people here like or dislike addons or macros, because quite frankly it doesn't matter what people here like or don't like, they'll play the game anyway. But the vast majority of mmo gamers obviously like them or atleast don't mind them because most mmos have them.The premise of (and I'm guessing here) half of the beating this game takes stems from what it did not ship with in December of 2011. That was over 2 years ago. People who are still that butthurt should probably take their own advice and leave. They'd be happier for it and the community wouldn't have to keep calling the mod squad for assault and disturbing the peace. A genuine win-win for everyone. But incessantly slamming a video game for 2 years because of stuff it didn't initially come with? That's like publicly stalking an Ex on Facebook because they started off ... lacking. It's plain sick imho. Edited February 22, 2014 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 The premise of (and I'm guessing here) half of the beating this game takes stems from what it did not ship with in December of 2011. That was over 2 years ago. People who are still that butthurt should probably take their own advice and leave. They'd be happier for it and the community wouldn't have to keep calling the mod squad for assault and disturbing the peace. A genuine win-win for everyone. But incessantly slamming a video game for 2 years because of stuff it didn't initially come with? That's like publicly stalking an Ex on Facebook because they started off ... lacking. It's plain sick imho. So they fixed or added all the stuff they didn't ship with and should have? no? maybe some of the stuff? Oh 2 years and all they added was a group finder... And quit crying, I haven't seen anyone advise people to leave. Well except you. But youll get your wish someday, something will eventually over ride the star wars hook this game has and youll have a nice quiet forum without any "whiners". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) So they fixed or added all the stuff they didn't ship with and should have? no? maybe some of the stuff? Oh 2 years and all they added was a group finder... And quit crying, I haven't seen anyone advise people to leave. Well except you. But youll get your wish someday, something will eventually over ride the star wars hook this game has and youll have a nice quiet forum without any "whiners".And I personally look forward to that day. Until then ... 1.1 (1/18/2012) - Operation: Karraga's Palace expansion - New FP: Kaon Under Siege - Event: Rise of the Rakghouls 1.2 (4/12/2012) - New QoL: Legacy system - New QoL: Customizable UIs - New Operation: Explosive Conflict - New Mission Area: Black Hole 1.3 (6/26/2012) - New QoL: Groupfinder - New QoL: Augment slots - QoL: Ranked War Zones added - QoL: All GTN terminals connected 1.4 (9/26/2012) - New Operation: Terror From Beyond - QoL: Dread Guard gear added - QoL: Match color to chest added - QoL: BoP and BoL items tradeable between grouped players 1.5 (11/15/2012) - New Mission Area: Section X - Event: HK-51 companion quest chain - Operation: EC NiM added - New World Boss: Dreadtooth - QoL: Additional Cargo Hold & quickslot bars added 1.6 (12/11/2012) - New WZ: Ancient Hypergate - Space: Heroic missions added - Space: Grade 7 artifact Starship Upgrades - New Event: Life Day Celebration 1.7 (2/12/2013) - New Event: Relics of the Gree - New Operation: Gray Secant - QoL: Galactic Reputation 2.0 (4/9/2013) - New Planet: Makeb - New Operation: Scum & Villany - New HM FPs: Athiss, Cademimu, Hammer Station, Mandalorian Raiders 2.2 (6/12/2013) - Operation: TFB NiM 2.3 (8/6/2013) - 55 FPs: Czerka Corporate Labs, Czerka Core Meltdown - Event: Bounty Contract Week 2.4 (10/1/2013) - Operations: Dread Fortress, Dread Palace - Mission Areas: Oricon, CZ-198 2.5 (12/04/2013) - Galactic Starfighter 2.6 (02/04/2014) - Flashpoint: Kuat Drive Yards Tactical Flashpoint - GSF: Team Deathmatch Gameplay Mode - GSF Hangar Bay ... you win. Edited February 22, 2014 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 And I personally look forward to that day. Until then ... -snip- ... you win. Gosh that is a shure whole lot of nothing aside from the GF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) Gosh that is a shure whole lot of nothing aside from the GF. Speaking of which - it's FAFF! Since the weekend is officially here and the hate trolls will be out in force to tag the forum walls like gang bangers because the babysitters are away, I think I'll join up with the wife and queue for Kuat. Until next week ... cheers! Edited February 22, 2014 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 And I personally look forward to that day. Until then . Youre too naïve to realize that when that day comes this game wont exist anymore? This is why I hate arguing with people who have no idea what theyre talking about. You may think youre helping this game but fighting against what would make this game better isn't helping it. Pointing out to you that things like dread guard gear and reputations along with almost everything else you listed aren't QOL features is probably useless because I think its more than ignorance that is driving you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) Youre too naïve to realize that when that day comes this game wont exist anymore? This is why I hate arguing with people who have no idea what theyre talking about. You may think youre helping this game but fighting against what would make this game better isn't helping it. Pointing out to you that things like dread guard gear and reputations along with almost everything else you listed aren't QOL features is probably useless because I think its more than ignorance that is driving you. You're correct in that fighting against game improvements won't help it. But you've been arguing pretty heavily on how terrible the game is, on a thread calling it a pariah. You're not going to influence developers this way. Nor people who already hate the game. Nor people who already like it. That only leaves new people to scare away. How does this help? Edited February 22, 2014 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 You're correct in that fighting against game improvements won't help it. But you've been arguing pretty heavily on how terrible the game is, on a thread calling it a pariah. You're not going to influence developers this way. Nor people who already hate the game. Nor people who already like it. That only leaves new people to scare away. How does this help? Saying that this game or any modern mmo should have modern mmo qol features is arguing heavily on how terrible this game is? Advice and criticism isn't always an attack, if you think it is you obviously aren't thinking objectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Saying that this game or any modern mmo should have modern mmo qol features is arguing heavily on how terrible this game is? Advice and criticism isn't always an attack, if you think it is you obviously aren't thinking objectively. I was more referring to statements like this: "Swtor is still pretty much the same game those people left a star wars reskin of wow in 2005" "And as for swtor taking a spark of brain power to play? I see no evidence of that" I'm not even trying to say you're wrong. It's just hypocritical to accuse someone else of "not helping the game". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I was more referring to statements like this: "Swtor is still pretty much the same game those people left a star wars reskin of wow in 2005" "And as for swtor taking a spark of brain power to play? I see no evidence of that" I'm not even trying to say you're wrong. It's just hypocritical to accuse someone else of "not helping the game". That is helping the game if the devs did something about it. Argueing that the devs shouldn't do anything about it isn't helping. Hiding problems from new players doesn't help your game, theyre still going to find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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