The REAL Most Powerful Revisited

[Aurbere]

In what sense, Exar Kun > Vader > Jaina I presume?

 

That is correct.

[tunewalker]

So that makes 7 Dark side users and 3 Lightsider's on the top 10 force users list..... I dont know this seems a bit Sith biased to me. I think we are focusing to much on the "flashy". Raw power and Instinct when talking about the force IS still power.

 

I dont know, I just feel Jedi are getting the short end of the stick, but hey my own distaste doesnt change that I dont have enough knowledge on the character to argue her at all, just get an uneasy feeling in my gut seeing this many Dark siders on a list thats suppose to encompass all.

Edited February 8, 2014 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

So that makes 7 Dark side users and 3 Lightsider's on the top 10 force users list..... I dont know this seems a bit Sith biased to me. I think we are focusing to much on the "flashy". Raw power and Instinct when talking about the force IS still power.

 

I dont know, I just feel Jedi are getting the short end of the stick, but hey my own distaste doesnt change that I dont have enough knowledge on the character to argue her at all, just get an uneasy feeling in my gut seeing this many Dark siders.

 

Beni has it in his head that to unleash the full power of the force, you must be Dark Sided.

 

*shrugs*

[Beniboybling]

Beni has it in his head that to unleash the full power of the force, you must be Dark Sided.

 

*shrugs*

The light side is a slow and steady path to power that few finish.*

 

The dark side is a quick and immediate path to power that many complete.

 

So yeah. Still, perhaps some input from Lady concerning Jaina vs Vader may be in order.

 

(*on top of that, Jedi don't pursue power as they Sith do, they don't try to push themselves.)

[tunewalker]

Beni has it in his head that to unleash the full power of the force, you must be Dark Sided.

 

*shrugs*

 

Thats not true.... the Dark side and the Force are the same, but by pulling on it you slowly cause a corruption of the Force. This is why powerful Dark siders and places were rituals were preformed become DS nexi. The Light side is just as powerful, though usually not as visually impressive. They can defend and while they may not use the TK all the time they will use it when necissary. Further more if you played the JK games (like Jedi Academy for example) You really do see how much of the Light Side powers are based around either defending against Dark side attacks (Force absorb acting as both Tutaminis and a shield against Force Drain, Force Protect litterally protecting their bodies from harm) while the Dark side Powers Focus entirely on dishing out more pain (Force Lightning, Dark Rage which boosts your power but slowly drains a little of your life away).

[tunewalker]

The light side is a slow and steady path to power that few finish.*

 

The dark side is a quick and immediate path to power that many complete.

 

So yeah. Still, perhaps some input from Lady concerning Jaina vs Vader may be in order.

 

(*on top of that, Jedi don't pursue power as they Sith do, they don't try to push themselves.)

 

2 things.

 

1. The list thus far now only says few finish it but EXTREMELY few finish it, seems a bit off considering how many more jedi there have been than sith.

 

 

2. Jedi DO seek power, but not in the same way, they seek an understanding of the Force as a whole, in times of peace when they arent trying to keep the peace in a hectic galaxy they are meditating on The Force itself trying to solve its mysteries. They are philosophers and their Philosphies are what leads a Jedi to great power. Doing this for 900 years is how Yoda became what he was.

[Selenial]

The light side is a slow and steady path to power that few finish.*

 

The dark side is a quick and immediate path to power that many complete.

 

So yeah. Still, perhaps some input from Lady concerning Jaina vs Vader may be in order.

 

(*on top of that, Jedi don't pursue power as they Sith do, they don't try to push themselves.)

 

No, no no.

 

The Light side is supposed to be the Slow and Steady path to a Higher power, and the Dark Side a mad rush for a smaller power than will inevitably leave them.

 

IE, Baras, Sion, they lost their power in the dark side because it is a fleeting power.

 

But yes, the Light Side is supposed to achieve more. And the people contending for this list are all those that completed their Path, we're not talking about the masses of simpletons.

[Beniboybling]

Thats not true.... the Dark side and the Force are the same, but by pulling on it you slowly cause a corruption of the Force. This is why powerful Dark siders and places were rituals were preformed become DS nexi. The Light side is just as powerful, though usually not as visually impressive. They can defend and while they may not use the TK all the time they will use it when necissary. Further more if you played the JK games (like Jedi Academy for example) You really do see how much of the Light Side powers are based around either defending against Dark side attacks (Force absorb acting as both Tutaminis and a shield against Force Drain, Force Protect litterally protecting their bodies from harm) while the Dark side Powers Focus entirely on dishing out more pain (Force Lightning, Dark Rage which boosts your power but slowly drains a little of your life away).

See above.

 

This is reflected by the fact that Jedi always become more powerful when falling to the dark side.

[Beniboybling]

2 things.

 

1. The list thus far now only says few finish it but EXTREMELY few finish it, seems a bit off considering how many more jedi there have been than sith.

 

 

2. Jedi DO seek power, but not in the same way, they seek an understanding of the Force as a whole, in times of peace when they arent trying to keep the peace in a hectic galaxy they are meditating on The Force itself trying to solve its mysteries. They are philosophers and their Philosphies are what leads a Jedi to great power. Doing this for 900 years is how Yoda became what he was.

1. Numbers have nothing to do with it. The light path is always difficult, the dark path is always easy, doesn't matter how many people you throw at it. Its even implied in Dark Rendevous that Yoda would be more powerful as a dark sider.

 

2. But nowhere near as fervently, dark siders push themselves and the Force to its limits. They show no restraint.

 

In the end the list speaks for itself, there is definitely still a possibility of Jaina making this list. But even then its 6 Sith and 4 Jedi. That is still a considerable Sith advantage of 60%. And the gap really is quite small.

[tunewalker]

See above.

 

This is reflected by the fact that Jedi always become more powerful when falling to the dark side.

 

They DONT always become more powerful when they fall. When Anakin first fell he was about the same, because he had enough training to pull on the light and the dark about the same, it wouldnt be till years and years later after much training that he would surpass his Light Side self.

 

 

Luke is another example while it may appear he got stonger to topple Vader its unclear after all he wasnt trying against Vader before hand, what if he tried with the Light side. When Luke did Fall he lost in that fallen state to Sidious, but when he came back to the Light and with a small amount of help from his sister he bested the Emperor again suggesting at LEAST equality between his dark and light self.

 

 

Then of course their is the Infamous fall of Sora Bulq who clearly became WEAKER with his fall, while he believed falling would allow him greater mastery of Vaapad, Vaapad consumed him and the once equal of Windu was now not on the same level.

[Aurbere]

Jedi > Sith because Plo Koon is a Jedi. Yeah, fight that logic. Edited February 8, 2014 by Aurbere

[tunewalker]

1. Numbers have nothing to do with it. The light path is always difficult, the dark path is always easy, doesn't matter how many people you throw at it. Its even implied in Dark Rendevous that Yoda would be more powerful as a dark sider.

 

2. But nowhere near as fervently, dark siders push themselves and the Force to its limits. They show no restraint.

 

In the end the list speaks for itself, there is definitely still a possibility of Jaina making this list. But even then its 6 Sith and 4 Jedi. That is still a considerable Sith advantage of 60%. And the gap really is quite small.

 

Just saying the suggestion was that the list was deeply flawed as it favored flashyness over what could be real power. So the list speaking for itself isnt entirely a good defense.

 

Also have not read Dark Rendevous and I am almost positive that is the opinion of some one in the book and not actually 100% undisputable fact.

[tunewalker]

jedi > sith because plo koon is a jedi. Yeah, fight that logic.

 

you win.

[Aurbere]

Also have not read Dark Rendevous and I am almost positive that is the opinion of some one in the book and not actually 100% undisputable fact.

 

I own the book. I'm 90% sure it's from Dooku's POV. Dooku not being an unbiased source. He is well known for calling the Dark Side more powerful.

[tunewalker]

I own the book. I'm 90% sure it's from Dooku's POV. Dooku not being an unbiased source. He is well known for calling the Dark Side more powerful.

 

Ya thats what I suspected, i mean.... "I have become more powerful then any jedi....... even you" I dont know something makes me not trust his word on power and the Dark side.

[Aurbere]

Ya thats what I suspected, i mean.... "I have become more powerful then any jedi....... even you" I dont know something makes me not trust his word on power and the Dark side.

 

Yup. There's also Dark Rendezvous, Dooku, and other sources. He's a believer, that's all I can say.

[Aurbere]

 

So yeah. Still, perhaps some input from Lady concerning Jaina vs Vader may be in order.

 

I agree. Another opinion would be nice. Then we can get back to what's important.

 

Unless Legend decides to continue that Traya vs. Malgus debate (which will then become Malgus vs. Vader, and then Vitiate vs. Sidious)

 

As a side-note, I would rather discuss Plagueis vs. Vitiate before we get back to Obi-Wan vs. Saba. I just ordered the rest of the Clone Wars comics I need for my argument, so it would give me time to receive and then read them.

[Selenial]

Unless Legend decides to continue that Traya vs. Malgus debate (which will then become Malgus vs. Vader, and then Vitiate vs. Sidious)

 

That argument is suicide against me and Beni...

 

Edit: Oops, Only just saw that PM aurbere.... 'Fraid I don't, but I'll try get my hands on it...

[Aurbere]

That argument is suicide against me and Beni...

 

Edit: Oops, Only just saw that PM aurbere.... 'Fraid I don't, but I'll try get my hands on it...

 

Lol, true. And don't worry, I should have it by Monday.

[Beniboybling]

They DONT always become more powerful when they fall. When Anakin first fell he was about the same, because he had enough training to pull on the light and the dark about the same, it wouldnt be till years and years later after much training that he would surpass his Light Side self.

 

Luke is another example while it may appear he got stonger to topple Vader its unclear after all he wasnt trying against Vader before hand, what if he tried with the Light side. When Luke did Fall he lost in that fallen state to Sidious, but when he came back to the Light and with a small amount of help from his sister he bested the Emperor again suggesting at LEAST equality between his dark and light self.

 

Then of course their is the Infamous fall of Sora Bulq who clearly became WEAKER with his fall, while he believed falling would allow him greater mastery of Vaapad, Vaapad consumed him and the once equal of Windu was now not on the same level.

That's because Anakin Skywalker used his rage long before he became a Sith, and he noted that it made him more powerful. I'd also question that he did not become even more powerful after being anointed Darth Vader, considering his accomplishments in the Jedi Temple. Not even Shaak Ti could defeat him.

 

Luke did grow more powerful, he overwhelmed his father through the power of the dark side. The scene was clearly showing that. Yes he could have done the same with the light, but not with a lot more training.

 

There are of course some exceptions, some simply aren't stable enough to control the dark side. However I'd question whether Sora Bulq grew weaker, he grew sloppier, but he remained very powerful.

 

EDIT: On the other hand we have fallen Jedi such as Exar Kun, Ulic, Revan, Malak, Jacen Solo, Ventress, Dooku etc. who became notably more powerful when falling to the dark side, which is partly why its so seductive.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Just saying the suggestion was that the list was deeply flawed as it favored flashyness over what could be real power. So the list speaking for itself isnt entirely a good defense.

 

Also have not read Dark Rendevous and I am almost positive that is the opinion of some one in the book and not actually 100% undisputable fact.

"Flashiness" is an empty term and I see no truth in it. There is ability and lack of ability, of which we have discussed. I'm willing to here suggestions, but this vague "list is flawed" business I feel doesn't really have anything to it.

 

EDIT: And of course, to place more Jedi on the list would ultimately end up elevating Revan, and that will never happen lol so everyone after Revan is effectively trapped for all eternity.

 

EDIT: On top of that they all have showings of "raw power" or what you might class as "flashy", aside from Jaina I see none that could be discredited for having a lack of raw showings, but they don't quite stack up I feel.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

*Looks around* Now what?

[Aurbere]

Do we all agree that Vader and Exar Kun are more powerful than Jaina, or should we continue? I have nothing more to say on the subject.

[Trooperclay]

This is my first post in these series of threads, so go easy on me , and also this might have already been discussed, but IMO, Satele, Revan & Surik, Traya, and Kun win. If we've already discussed these, tell me who please!

[Aurbere]

This is my first post in these series of threads, so go easy on me , and also this might have already been discussed, but IMO, Satele, Revan & Surik, Traya, and Kun win. If we've already discussed these, tell me who please!

 

I think those are the decisions we made, as well.