The BattleZone Winner's Bracket Match 2: Darth Plagueis vs. Darth Malgus

[sell-dog]

I concur, Plagueis will move two fast for Malgus. Which will allow him to easily overcome his defenses.

 

That or he could just TK him to pieces.

 

Yes I agree, and Plagueis' final words in calm, calculated, and menacing voice to Malgus will be "Your old ways of the Sith Order are dead. A new, more powerful, Order has already taken place." Then BAM

[Beniboybling]

Yes I agree, and Plagueis' final words in calm, calculated, and menacing voice to Malgus will be "Your old ways of the Sith Order are dead. A new, more powerful, Order has already taken place." Then BAM

The he'll proceed to observe Malgus' midichlorians as he dies.

[LadyKulvax]

I think Malgus' endurance and prowess is being under-stated here.

 

Not only has he survived massive amounts of telekinesis before but he has fought on and killed Jedi directly afterwards.

 

He has also achieved such a state of oneness that he can unleash Force Maelstrom, an ability certainly on par with Plagueis' own prowess.

 

Just a quick reminder of what he can do, don't under-estimate him.

[Aurbere]

I think Malgus' endurance and prowess is being under-stated here.

 

Not only has he survived massive amounts of telekinesis before but he has fought on and killed Jedi directly afterwards.

 

He has also achieved such a state of oneness that he can unleash Force Maelstrom, an ability certainly on par with Plagueis' own prowess.

 

Just a quick reminder of what he can do, don't under-estimate him.

 

Indeed. I find it unlikely that Plagueis can just 'TK him' and be done with it. Malgus is an incredibly powerful Sith Lord in his own right, and certainly capable of summoning immense power.

[tunewalker]

Ok a couple things, just want to note here.

 

 

1. I doubt Traya was actually Force severed. The reason for this is because when Anakin cut off Dooku's hands Dooku was no longer considered dangerous, even though he still had the force. The reason for this is likely 2 fold, 1 being that he cant use his saber any more, and 2 (this is the important one) most force users use their hands to help concentrate and the like. This could be why Surik thought that Traya wouldnt be a threat with the force any more because Traya had now lost both her hands, but of course being a true master of the force the way Traya is hands or no hands matters not at all to her. All-in-all I see little no Evidence that Traya's Force powers were ACTUALLY severed, because if she was truly severed she wouldn't be able to use the force at all.

 

 

2. A master of All light saber forms does not neccissarily get an Edge in combat against a Master of a single form. While Plagueis is no doubt a skilled duelist and likely has mastery of all 7 forms he does not likely use all 7 forms very often nor would his timing being specially well honed . Malgus on the other hand is a pure on saber duelist spending much of his time either in combat or perfecting his combat. Plagueis knows the movements and is able to execute all of them perfectly, but he has to think about his moves while Malgus likely has programmed responses and muscle memory. What likely evens them out in a pure saber fight is the Muun Brain along with likely greater pull on the force means that Plagueis's reaction time could likely be the same as Malgus's not because of trained reaction but because the Muun brain can process information faster and the greater command of the force gives him earlier warning, bringing Plagueis up to equal footing for reaction time of the more honed reaction times of Malgus.

 

 

 

All-in-all I think Plagueis would win this, but it would by no means be a slobber knocker. He would be bruised battered and broken in several locations before he made the kill.

Edited January 30, 2014 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

I think Malgus' endurance and prowess is being under-stated here.

 

Not only has he survived massive amounts of telekinesis before but he has fought on and killed Jedi directly afterwards.

 

He has also achieved such a state of oneness that he can unleash Force Maelstrom, an ability certainly on par with Plagueis' own prowess.

 

Just a quick reminder of what he can do, don't under-estimate him.

Malgus may have survived telekinetic bombardments but he was nonetheless incapacitated, and if Satele can thrash him in such a manner when he is in a weakened state, an exponentially more powerful Plagueis who can unleash such torrents of energy off hand should be able to do the same - its merely a matter of finding an opening.

 

I fully expect however that Force Waves that can atomize opponents would send Malgus flying. And in such a state regardless of Malgus' endurance capabilities Plagueis will be on him in a second and stick him with his lightsaber.

 

In regards to the Force Maelstrom, its certainly on par with Plagueis' abilities. But Plagueis demonstrations have not been the fullest extent of his power. On another note considering Plagueis' exceptional talent in Force Speed I doubt Malgus will be given enough reprieve to pull of such a move. Altogether I feel Malgus is simply outclassed.

[Beniboybling]

Ok a couple things, just want to note here.

 

 

1. I doubt Traya was actually Force severed. The reason for this is because when Anakin cut off Dooku's hands Dooku was no longer considered dangerous, even though he still had the force. The reason for this is likely 2 fold, 1 being that he cant use his saber any more, and 2 (this is the important one) most force users use their hands to help concentrate and the like. This could be why Surik thought that Traya wouldnt be a threat with the force any more because Traya had now lost both her hands, but of course being a true master of the force the way Traya is hands or no hands matters not at all to her. All-in-all I see little no Evidence that Traya's Force powers were ACTUALLY severed, because if she was truly severed she wouldn't be able to use the force at all.

 

 

2. A master of All light saber forms does not neccissarily get an Edge in combat against a Master of a single form. While Plagueis is no doubt a skilled duelist and likely has mastery of all 7 forms he does not likely use all 7 forms very often nor would his timing being specially well honed . Malgus on the other hand is a pure on saber duelist spending much of his time either in combat or perfecting his combat. Plagueis knows the movements and is able to execute all of them perfectly, but he has to think about his moves while Malgus likely has programmed responses and muscle memory. What likely evens them out in a pure saber fight is the Muun Brain along with likely greater pull on the force means that Plagueis's reaction time could likely be the same as Malgus's not because of trained reaction but because the Muun brain can process information faster and the greater command of the force gives him earlier warning, bringing Plagueis up to equal footing for reaction time of the more honed reaction times of Malgus.

 

 

 

All-in-all I think Plagueis would win this, but it would by no means be a slobber knocker. He would be bruised battered and broken in several locations before he made the kill.

I think it says in the KOTOR Campaign Guide that the Jedi Exile severed her from the Force, severed her hand and severed their Force Bond all at once. At the very least the bond was severed, and I can't think of any other way other than sever force that could have achieved this. But because of the power Traya wielded, I expect it wasn't total.

 

Mastery in lightsaber combat goes behind simply knowledge of the forms, you have to be able to effectively apply that knowledge as well. And Plagueis was regarded as "a master of the art" by his master. Who for the record he frequently engaged in sparring matches with, and I expect he did with Sidious too, so he's timing would be well honed.

[fellblade]

This is an interesting one....

 

I don't really know that much about Plagueis - apart from reading his Section in The Book of Sith

I do actually have the Darth Plagueis book at home but have not yet had a chance to read it yet - so I may make some wrong assumptions....

 

I am inclined to think Plagueis - However, people have raised some good Points and I think Malgus going all out to his full potential is a tough fight for virtually anybody.

 

I do not necessarily think that Plagueis would be a master of all 7 forms like Sidious (he may or may not).

Apprentices do not necessarily have to follow in their masters' exact footsteps especially with Styles - For instance Obi Wan was Anakin's Master and a master of Soresu . Anakin on the Other Hand was a Master of Shien/Djem So -. (Obi Wan could never have taught him that style to that degree)

 

Sidious had a Very different mentality to Plagueis when it came to knowledge and was very inclined to independent study.... Sidious was all about gaining all the knowledge power he could from anything, whereas Plagueis was pretty set in his ways. If Darth Plagueis didn't believe that something was worthy he kind of didn't really spend any time on it - he was disdainful of Sith Sorcery so didn't bother with it - Sidious was a master of Sith Sorcery. He seems somewhat disdainful of Lightsaber combat so he may not have delved into it to the Degree of Sidious - (Plagueis could be say just a Master of Niman and just be very effective because of the way that Niman can utilise his immense force power). All I am saying is that there are independent sources of study so Sidious did not necessarily have to have learned all his Lightsaber skills and definitely not Sorcery from Plagueis....

(However, if it is actually stated that Plagueis is actually a Master of all 7 forms - then my speculation is wrong - either way, I don't think he would be as good a Sidious with the Lightsaber)

 

Plagueis also had a weakness in force Awareness - Luke Skywalker even speculated that he did not think the force 'talked' to Plagueis. (so you can kind of get the jump on him and he may be oblivious to certain developments in mid-battle)

Malgus is a seasoned veteran and has proven resourceful and adaptable in fights and definitely has more of a mentality for Combat - which almost seems like a sometimes necessary but bothersome activity to Plagueis.

Also, one thing I would say about Malgus is that he can get his Power Boost to raise his level Very Quickly and Suddenly (This is what I consider one of his greatest strengths). This can often catch his foes unaware and enable him to Overwhelm them and finish them off very quickly......

 

Obviously Plagueis' Speed and Force Ability will be a huge Factor (he may also have some kind of way to utilise his Midi-Chlorian knowledge to his advantage) - but I would say that I think it *possible* that Malgus (while not being overall more powerful) may be able to beat him in a Fight.

[Beniboybling]

Good points all round, however I feel Plagueis can match Malgus' strength with speed. If Malgus goes all out bull rushing Plagueis he can simply evade the attacks and in doing so break Malgus' momentum as he moves round to attack his flanks or his rear, which will in turn force Malgus on the defensive and give Plagueis the edge.

 

Though in the instance that Plagueis is wounded we should not forget that he is very able at healing himself mid battle partly through midi-chlorian manipulation (I believe) and is more than able to attack Malgus and heal his injuries at the same time. And if Plagueis feels the battle is going out of his favour, he can fall back on the Force.

 

Niman of course being very good for this, a well timed Force push will send Malgus flying and he can continue his barrage from their. And if it falls to a Force based engagement Malgus will most certainly lose.

[tunewalker]

I think it says in the KOTOR Campaign Guide that the Jedi Exile severed her from the Force, severed her hand and severed their Force Bond all at once. At the very least the bond was severed, and I can't think of any other way other than sever force that could have achieved this. But because of the power Traya wielded, I expect it wasn't total.

 

Mastery in lightsaber combat goes behind simply knowledge of the forms, you have to be able to effectively apply that knowledge as well. And Plagueis was regarded as "a master of the art" by his master. Who for the record he frequently engaged in sparring matches with, and I expect he did with Sidious too, so he's timing would be well honed.

 

Again for the first one it depends on how you look at it. Because many force users use their hands, severing her final hand actually counts as slightly severing her Force bond. That doesn't mean she used the power Sever Force which often takes time and multiple masters to properly apply. Though i guess that is the arguement that while she used it, it was not its proper application as she did it in haste as well as attempting it solo.

 

 

I agree with you beni, but we know there are different degrees of "Mastery" Obi-wan was a master of Soresu in Episode 2 but he was THE master of Soresu in episode 3. Cin Drallig was a master of all seven Forms. While Anakin was a Master of both Variants of Form 5 and Ataru. Anakin could still beat him though because he spent as much time specializing as Cin Drallig spent generalizing. What gave Anakin the upper hand was the greater connection to the force. I am saying this will be similar With Malgus and Plagueis. I believe Malgus's time spent Specializing training will give him a slight edge over Plageuis's time Generalized training, but Plagueis biological mental capabilities and greater pull on the force will make either take that edge and make it so minimal to be mostly uncounted, be enough to make them ACTUAL equals or could very well be enough to flip it on its head and put Plagueis into the better duelist catagory. My whole point with this is that a Master of all Seven forms can and has been beaten in the past by a Specialized Master.

[tunewalker]

Good points all round, however I feel Plagueis can match Malgus' strength with speed. If Malgus goes all out bull rushing Plagueis he can simply evade the attacks and in doing so break Malgus' momentum as he moves round to attack his flanks or his rear, which will in turn force Malgus on the defensive and give Plagueis the edge.

 

Though in the instance that Plagueis is wounded we should not forget that he is very able at healing himself mid battle partly through midi-chlorian manipulation (I believe) and is more than able to attack Malgus and heal his injuries at the same time. And if Plagueis feels the battle is going out of his favour, he can fall back on the Force.

 

Niman of course being very good for this, a well timed Force push will send Malgus flying and he can continue his barrage from their. And if it falls to a Force based engagement Malgus will most certainly lose.

 

I honestly dont think Plagueis needs to match Malgus's Strength with speed. Again his size and Biology means he can take power blows with out much of an issue.

[LadyKulvax]

I agree that the Plagueis novel and even Book of SIth seems to point towards Plagueis not being the master lightsaber duellist many believe, it's far more likely that he was a highly proficient Niman duellist, to make up for a lack of a mastered form.

 

Also people seem to have forgotten Malgus' own very impressive feats with Force Speed, he used this ability to get to a hangar which was IIRC over 20 miles away and he got there in the space of a minute.

Edited January 30, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[LadyKulvax]

Again for the first one it depends on how you look at it. Because many force users use their hands, severing her final hand actually counts as slightly severing her Force bond. That doesn't mean she used the power Sever Force which often takes time and multiple masters to properly apply. Though i guess that is the arguement that while she used it, it was not its proper application as she did it in haste as well as attempting it solo.

 

Actually it is stated categorically that the Exile used Sever Force and distracted Traya by simultaneously cutting off her hand, it was almost complete as once Traya used her remaining Force energy to summon her three lightsabers her remaining reserves ran out and she could only use the power of Malachor V to see the future.

[Beniboybling]

Again for the first one it depends on how you look at it. Because many force users use their hands, severing her final hand actually counts as slightly severing her Force bond. That doesn't mean she used the power Sever Force which often takes time and multiple masters to properly apply. Though i guess that is the arguement that while she used it, it was not its proper application as she did it in haste as well as attempting it solo.

 

I agree with you beni, but we know there are different degrees of "Mastery" Obi-wan was a master of Soresu in Episode 2 but he was THE master of Soresu in episode 3. Cin Drallig was a master of all seven Forms. While Anakin was a Master of both Variants of Form 5 and Ataru. Anakin could still beat him though because he spent as much time specializing as Cin Drallig spent generalizing. What gave Anakin the upper hand was the greater connection to the force. I am saying this will be similar With Malgus and Plagueis. I believe Malgus's time spent Specializing training will give him a slight edge over Plageuis's time Generalized training, but Plagueis biological mental capabilities and greater pull on the force will make either take that edge and make it so minimal to be mostly uncounted, be enough to make them ACTUAL equals or could very well be enough to flip it on its head and put Plagueis into the better duelist catagory. My whole point with this is that a Master of all Seven forms can and has been beaten in the past by a Specialized Master.

Saying severing an opponents hand neutralizes them as a threat is one thing, but saying it can be considering as severing from the Force seems a leap in logic. Meetra has been noted to be particular adept in sever force from a young age and again I am confident that the KOTOR campaign guide out right states this.

 

Indeed if she hadn't severed her from the Force, Meetra would have experienced Traya's pain so something must have happened aside from her simply severing her hand (as I originally believed) - but this is hardly relevant.

 

Yet all these duelists were capable of muscle memory, I would agree that Malgus certainly has an advantage from combat experience, but I don't think Plagueis is entirely lacking in fluid application of his lightsaber mastery.

[Beniboybling]

I agree that the Plagueis novel and even Book of SIth seems to point towards Plagueis not being the master lightsaber duellist any believe, it's far more likely that he was a highly proficient Niman duellist, to make up for a lack of a mastered form.

 

Also people seem to have forgotten Malgus' own very impressive feats with Force Speed, he used this ability to get to a hangar which was IIRC over 20 miles away and he got there in the space of a minute.

Tenebrous pronounced him a master lightsaber duelist, his is a vague statement yes but I don't doubt that the author's intentions here were to make clear that Plagueis achieved mastery in at least one aspect of lightsaber dueling.

 

So whatever he specialized in, its likely he achieved mastery over it. And if he were a master of Niman, which is likely, he'd have highly competent ability in all seven forms, something he likely passed down to Sidious.

 

And yes, Malgus does have impressive speed feats, this is expected of any powerful Force User. But Plagueis even more so, which goes hand-in-hand with his lightweight form, flexibility and agility. Plagueis I feel is in another league, moving so fast that even a droid (that can dodge blaster bolts) perceived him as a blur, can supposedly outrun rain, along with Sidious he's incapacitated a hundred warriors without being touched and deflected/dodged blaster bolts from wave upon wave of in total two hundred battle droids who surrounded him, again without suffering a single injury.

 

I'm not sure Malgus would be capable of all if any of that, which is reflected by the fact he is a superior Force User. No he won't run rings around him, but he's fast enough to extricate himself from Malgus' onslaught and renter the battle at a different direction in between Malgus' strikes, which will prevent him from being overwhelmed.

[LadyKulvax]

I can't subscribe to this assessment for one reason:

 

Darth Venamis.

 

In their duel Venamis is clearly all over him and Plagueis has to completely change his tactical approach relying solely on his power in the Dark Side to over-come him, if Plagueis was that damn fast he'd have taken Venamis out with ease.

 

I don't believe he could have progressed much further with his lightsaber abilities as he spends most of the next ten years solely training Sidious, something he impressively pulls off and the entire time he was becoming more and more obsessed with Midichlorian Manipulation.

 

Let us also take a look at Malgus' duel with Aryn Leneer, she can barely keep up with both the speed and ferocity of Malgus' strikes and she is already seen by much of the Council as one of the best hopes for the future of the Jedi Order, rivalling her own master's power.

 

Simply put I think that Plagueis most certainly will not be just out-running Malgus the entire time.

[tunewalker]

Saying severing an opponents hand neutralizes them as a threat is one thing, but saying it can be considering as severing from the Force seems a leap in logic. Meetra has been noted to be particular adept in sever force from a young age and again I am confident that the KOTOR campaign guide out right states this.

 

Indeed if she hadn't severed her from the Force, Meetra would have experienced Traya's pain so something must have happened aside from her simply severing her hand (as I originally believed) - but this is hardly relevant.

 

Yet all these duelists were capable of muscle memory, I would agree that Malgus certainly has an advantage from combat experience, but I don't think Plagueis is entirely lacking in fluid application of his lightsaber mastery.

 

Again think that last bit is actually part of my point. Yes Plagueis is a master and likely a master of all seven forms, but his higher focus on gaining knowledge on the dark side rather than combat with a saber I believe would mean while he is a master he isnt a master to the same Degree that Malgus is, but he makes up for that with greater command of the force as well as the Muun mentality allowing him to process information faster. Thats actually one of the "weaknesses" of Niman its strength is it can be unpredictable as it can draw from multiple of the basics of lightsaber combat but its weakness is generally to achieve that strength the user needs to conciously think about their movemtents which can slow down reaction time. Plagueis Muun brain though i think eliminates this which is why in the end I put them on even footing here.

[tunewalker]

I can't subscribe to this assessment for one reason:

 

Darth Venamis.

 

In their duel Venamis is clearly all over him and Plagueis has to completely change his tactical approach relying solely on his power in the Dark Side to over-come him, if Plagueis was that damn fast he'd have taken Venamis out with ease.

 

I don't believe he could have progressed much further with his lightsaber abilities as he spends most of the next ten years solely training Sidious, something he impressively pulls off and the entire time he was becoming more and more obsessed with Midichlorian Manipulation.

 

Let us also take a look at Malgus' duel with Aryn Leneer, she can barely keep up with both the speed and ferocity of Malgus' strikes and she is already seen by much of the Council as one of the best hopes for the future of the Jedi Order, rivalling her own master's power.

 

Simply put I think that Plagueis most certainly will not be just out-running Malgus the entire time.

 

I dont think he needs to honestly. Malgus might be stronger but I dont think he is massively stronger he is still human, yes human with some cybernetic augmentation, but he is still human and Plageuis is a very fit Muun the 2 would likely be near on par in both speed and strength. Honestly I think this contest is going to come down to force powers, because Malgus and Plageuis are going to be hitting a bit of a stale mate in martial capabilities with one or the other MAYBE taking the upper hand, but Plageuis like his pupil likes to start out using saber, but when it starts to wear on him and he becomes tired of it, he is likely to push and gain some distance and then resort to extremely powerful TK attacks to cripple Malgus and rest up himself.

[LadyKulvax]

On the subject of Plagueis' telekinesis I do not believe it will be nearly as effective as many of you believe it will be.

 

Is he able to use his power to blast apart people? yes, were any of them Force Users? no.

 

Being able to do this to trained assassins is impressive, but to state it would have the same effect on a Sith Lord as majorly powerful as Darth Malgus is a large leap in prowess, Force Barriers often play crucial roles in dismantling another Force User and a Sith Juggernaut who had achieved Oneness with the Dark Side is going to be jacked up in all departments.

 

Let us not forget here that when Malgus goes into a Dark Rage, his Force Scream had such effect that it destroyed Fighters in the vacuum of space, I hope you guys realise how damn impressive that is, it also severely damaged his own crew and even buckled the bridge he was standing on.

 

I must also bring up the fact that Malgus's strength is enormous, his Dark Rage would have turned him into an out-right physical monstrosity, not only was he a naturally massive 7'4 Human with extreme build, he was so heavily augmented that he sustained the ability to march through the powerful Force Lightning that his opponent was unleashing on him as if it wasn't even hitting him and then unleashed his own much more powerful Force Lightning on him, stopping just short of out-right killing him to enjoy his death via his bare hands.

 

Malgus also has a severe combat experience edge here, he has fought and killed Jedi for three decades straight, he has been stated to have killed at least 40 Jedi Masters in his time.

 

Not only that, but his cybernetics improved his strength not just from the hardware but by constantly pumping strength and stamina adrenals into his body and beyond that his armor itself contained a cortosis weave and was infused by Sith Alchemy reinforcing it's durability.

 

As far as over-all prowess in the Force goes, Malgus has been severely under-estimated here, on the subject of Telekinesis, he has been able to blast walls apart, blast away two entire buildings worth of Duracreet and steel with ease almost directly after being smashed through a mountain.

 

He has been shown to use counter-Push and even Force Crush on Jedi enemies, in mid-air, he has shown abilities in Force Wave to almost completely blow apart a medical facility and sent dozens of beings flying into walls.

 

He also demonstrated the ability to simultaneously smash through the Force Barriers of three Jedi Knights and electrocute them all to death leaving them charred corpses.

 

He also demonstrated Force Speed of a degree that he ran 20 miles within minutes and when he fought Aryn Leneer an observer couldn't even keep track of their movements and when he could spot them they were nothing more than a blur with the Jedi being sporadically thrown out of the loop and then bull dozed immediately afterwards by the same blur.

 

And that is all before he killed Eleena Daru and achieved Oneness with the Dark Side, where after he could unleash the ability of Force Maelstrom combining his powers to wreck dozens of opponents simultaneously a feat that only Darth Sidious has shown the ability to use before.

 

This is going to be a brutal combat.

Edited January 30, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[tunewalker]

On the subject of Plagueis' telekinesis I do not believe it will be nearly as effective as many of you believe it will be.

 

Is he able to use his power to blast apart people? yes, were any of them Force Users? no.

 

Being able to do this to trained assassins is impressive, but to state it would have the same effect on a Sith Lord as majorly powerful as Darth Malgus is a large leap in prowess, Force Barriers often play crucial roles in dismantling another Force User and a Sith Juggernaut who had achieved Oneness with the Dark Side is going to be jacked up in all departments.

 

Let us not forget here that when Malgus goes into a Dark Rage, his Force Scream had such effect that it destroyed Fighters in the vacuum of space, I hope you guys realise how damn impressive that is, it also severely damaged his own crew and even buckled the bridge he was standing on.

 

I must also bring up the fact that Malgus's strength is enormous, his Dark Rage would have turned him into an out-right physical monstrosity, not only was he a naturally massive 7'4 Human with extreme build, he was so heavily augmented that he sustained the ability to march through the powerful Force Lightning that his opponent was unleashing on him as if it wasn't even hitting him and then unleashed his own much more powerful Force Lightning on him, stopping just short of out-right killing him to enjoy his death via his bare hands.

 

Malgus also has a severe combat experience edge here, he has fought and killed Jedi for three decades straight, he has been stated to have killed at least 40 Jedi Masters in his time.

 

Not only that, but his cybernetics improved his strength not just from the hardware but by constantly pumping strength and stamina adrenals into his body and beyond that his armor itself contained a cortosis weave and was infused by Sith Alchemy reinforcing it's durability.

 

As far as over-all prowess in the Force goes, Malgus has been severely under-estimated here, on the subject of Telekinesis, he has been able to blast walls apart, blast away two entire buildings worth of Duracreet and steel with ease almost directly after being smashed through a mountain.

 

He has been shown to use counter-Push and even Force Crush on Jedi enemies, in mid-air, he has shown abilities in Force Wave to almost completely blow apart a medical facility and sent dozens of beings flying into walls.

 

He also demonstrated the ability to simultaneously smash through the Force Barriers of three Jedi Knights and electrocute them all to death leaving them charred corpses.

 

He also demonstrated Force Speed of a degree that he ran 20 miles within minutes and when he fought Aryn Leneer an observer couldn't even keep track of their movements and when he could spot them they were nothing more than a blur with the Jedi being sporadically thrown out of the loop and then bull dozed immediately afterwards by the same blur.

 

And that is all before he killed Eleena Daru and achieved Oneness with the Dark Side, where after he could unleash the ability of Force Maelstrom combining his powers to wreck dozens of opponent simultaneously a feat that only Darth Sidious has shown the ability to use before.

 

This is going to be a brutal combat.

 

I dont doubt any of this, nor was any of it lost to me when talking about Plagueis's own TK abilties. Plagueis doesnt need to have a huge advantage only a small one. Plagueis ISNT going to out right destroy Malgus in TK any one that believes that needs to give more credit to Malgus and other force users in General. But tossing multiple objects in a projectile storm along with Tk waves and such combined with if i am not mistaken his own abilities with Force Shields I think he will be able to wear Malgus out enough that Plageuis can take the upper hand in an already EXTREMELY close physical combat.

 

 

Lets face it on all fronts both combantants are capable of similar abilities in combat from TK to saber Strength and Speed while i would give Malgus a slight edge in Saber I would give Plageuis a slight edge in Force, but with the combination of the 2 being used in Sync I think Plagueis's Niman Style allows him to better suited to switch between the 2 on the fly, not to say Malgus cant or wasnt known for chaining force attacks into is saber sequences because again any who knows Malgus knows thats not true. In the end it will most assuredly be a bloody battle I just think Plageuis here has what it takes to come out on top, though barely.

[LadyKulvax]

I dont doubt any of this, nor was any of it lost to me when talking about Plagueis's own TK abilties. Plagueis doesnt need to have a huge advantage only a small one. Plagueis ISNT going to out right destroy Malgus in TK any one that believes that needs to give more credit to Malgus and other force users in General. But tossing multiple objects in a projectile storm along with Tk waves and such combined with if i am not mistaken his own abilities with Force Shields I think he will be able to wear Malgus out enough that Plageuis can take the upper hand in an already EXTREMELY close physical combat.

 

 

Lets face it on all fronts both combantants are capable of similar abilities in combat from TK to saber Strength and Speed while i would give Malgus a slight edge in Saber I would give Plageuis a slight edge in Force, but with the combination of the 2 being used in Sync I think Plagueis's Niman Style allows him to better suited to switch between the 2 on the fly, not to say Malgus cant or wasnt known for chaining force attacks into is saber sequences because again any who knows Malgus knows thats not true. In the end it will most assuredly be a bloody battle I just think Plageuis here has what it takes to come out on top, though barely.

 

Actually Malgus much like Vader chained telekinesis as well as lightning into his lightsaber combat, he is highly proficient at using both simultaneously.

 

He was effective enough in this to fight a prime version of the Imperial strike team that took down Master Revan and freeze three of them at a time, his performance against the Imperials is highly impressive and squarely puts him above the likes of Revan in battle performance.

 

There are many many times when he chains powerful Force attacks into his lightsaber combat and I don't believe Plagueis has that kind of an advantage, clearly Malgus can pull off that style of fighting just as well as Plagueis.

Edited January 30, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

I can't subscribe to this assessment for one reason:

 

Darth Venamis.

 

In their duel Venamis is clearly all over him and Plagueis has to completely change his tactical approach relying solely on his power in the Dark Side to over-come him, if Plagueis was that damn fast he'd have taken Venamis out with ease.

 

I don't believe he could have progressed much further with his lightsaber abilities as he spends most of the next ten years solely training Sidious, something he impressively pulls off and the entire time he was becoming more and more obsessed with Midichlorian Manipulation.

 

Let us also take a look at Malgus' duel with Aryn Leneer, she can barely keep up with both the speed and ferocity of Malgus' strikes and she is already seen by much of the Council as one of the best hopes for the future of the Jedi Order, rivalling her own master's power.

 

Simply put I think that Plagueis most certainly will not be just out-running Malgus the entire time.

We are already making the assumption that Venamis is both an inferior Force User and lightsaber duelist to Malgus - we do not know that either is true. What we do know is that he was able to keep apace with one of the most powerful Sith Lords in galactic history capable of all the above, was considered as his replacement and was capable in multiple lightsabers forms, exotic techniques, as well as being ambidextrous. That seems to me to indicate both a powerful command over the Force and a mastery over perhaps even multiple lightsaber forms.

 

On top of that, he was an expert in Plagueis' own technique, so its no wonder that he managed to score a hit. But that's just it, he did not roll all over Plagueis, he merely scored a superficial scratch. Yet Plagueis also noted that the fight could go on "indefinitely" - indicating Plagueis was more than a match for him.

 

We simply cannot use Venamis I feel as evidence against Plagueis, only evidence for Venamis' own ability.

 

And yet, when Plagueis eliminated Venamis' greatest advantage i.e. his ability to predict Plagueis every move, Venamis proved completely incapable. Plagueis merely fell back on the defensive and Venamis couldn't do anything to penetrate his defenses, then he finished him with a couple of two-handed chops.

 

On the topic of Aryn Leeneer, you mis-remember, Leeneer performed quite well against Malgus. In fact:

 

The moment she landed, Malgus was upon her, his blade slashing, stabbing, spinning. He tried to use his superior strength to force her off the stone, off balance, but she answered his strength with speed, sidestepping his blows, leaping over them, parrying, unleashing her own flurries. The hum of their weapons through the air, the sizzle of crossed blades, merged into a single song of speed and power.

 

This is exactly the kind of technique I'm referring to. Malgus attempts to overwhelm Plagueis, Plagueis uses his superior speed to evade the blows and attack from a different angle, forcing Malgus to re-position himself and losing the momentum. No Plagueis will not be running rings around him, but it negates the strength advantage.

[Beniboybling]

Again think that last bit is actually part of my point. Yes Plagueis is a master and likely a master of all seven forms, but his higher focus on gaining knowledge on the dark side rather than combat with a saber I believe would mean while he is a master he isnt a master to the same Degree that Malgus is, but he makes up for that with greater command of the force as well as the Muun mentality allowing him to process information faster. Thats actually one of the "weaknesses" of Niman its strength is it can be unpredictable as it can draw from multiple of the basics of lightsaber combat but its weakness is generally to achieve that strength the user needs to conciously think about their movemtents which can slow down reaction time. Plagueis Muun brain though i think eliminates this which is why in the end I put them on even footing here.

I think I agree with this assessment.

 

Though its possible Plagueis could overwhelm Malgus as he did Venamis, by pouring his energy into powerful slashes, perhaps if he gets pushed to frustration and inaccuracy - which injured Venamis and disarmed him.

[Selenial]

Might be remembering wrong, but wasn't it Plageuis who was so fast, he stopped Rain (In a heavy thunderstorm) from even touching him, over the course of a few minutes? And only broke a sweat afterwards?

[Beniboybling]

On the subject of Plagueis' telekinesis I do not believe it will be nearly as effective as many of you believe it will be.

 

Is he able to use his power to blast apart people? yes, were any of them Force Users? no.

 

Being able to do this to trained assassins is impressive, but to state it would have the same effect on a Sith Lord as majorly powerful as Darth Malgus is a large leap in prowess...

Nobody is suggesting that Plagueis can atomize Malgus with an off-hand attack. But that's just it, he can blow people apart with practiced ease. It is far from a leap in logic to assume this will not at the very least rip Malgus off his feet.

 

After all lets not forget

 

If in a weakened state Malgus can be pummeled into oblivion by Satele Shan, considering Plagueis is all the more powerful, I fully expect Plagueis Force Waves will send Malgus flying. Yes he'll recover, but it gives Plagueis an edge. And with Niman at his disposal, he can catch Malgus just as unawares as Satele managed to do.

 

On top of that Plagueis is primarily a master of the dark side, he is far more predisposed to deflecting Malgus' attacks and in reality it is likely Plagueis as opposed to Malgus the Bullrusher who will strike first.

 

And lets not overhype Malgus' dark rage either. Yes it is impressive but Plagueis is more than capable of weathering and/or dodging it, and also capable of using the tunnel vision it creates against him. Nor will it be much use when Plagueis sticks him with his lightsaber - which will likely be the follow up attack after smashing him against a wall.