Telaan Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) This is the first SW book I truly didn't like. Everything about it was bad. From the cliche grail quest knights, the pillar and what it was capable of doing, the fact that there was a significant part of the book that was virtually a rewrite of Luke's time on sinkhole station, to the idea that collectively Luke, Han, and Leia come to some epiphany that they need to retire. I can't believe Denning was given the green light for this plot line; especially considering that halfway through its writing he found out it was going to be retcon'd by the upcoming movies. Did anyone else feel that the book was very out of character for the big 3 and out of place in general? Edited January 6, 2014 by Telaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Thought I'd chime in since I just read Crucible last week. ***SPOILERS***(obviously) I definitely would have preferred a more "grounded" Star Wars story after all the Abeloth stuff from Fate of the Jedi (at least as "grounded" as you can get with space-wizards who use laser swords), so the Mortis stuff wasn't exactly thrilling me. A few books down the line, having that come up would have been fine, but Denning just did the whole reality-warping super-Force manifestation stuff in Apocalypse (and the FotJ series as a whole). It was probably time for something different. As for the Luke/Han/Leia "big epiphany" that they should retire, well that is going to all hinge on whether it sticks (and if there's even the opportunity to stick - since Disney haven't said whether the current post-ROTJ EU will continue as an Alternate Universe or whether it will be discontinued completely in favor of the timeline set by Ep VII ). They've done the whole "passing the torch"/"changing of the guard" thing before, but it never sticks because when it comes to Star Wars, most people are paying money because they want to see "the Big Three", not their kids and grandkids. I did like the return of Vestara Khai, and the idea of her flying around the Galaxy with Ship trying to gain enough power to take over the Lost Tribe - I prefer that storyline for her over just having her join the One Sith. I hope she continues to show up (though not so often as to become a really watered down threat). I have mixed feelings, though, as to whether the decision to not give her and Ben a scene together was a wasted opportunity, or a good step towards making her more than "Ben's Sith Ex-Girlfriend", while also setting it up so that when they do interact next it will have that much more of an impact. Not sure how I feel about Mirta Gev's characterization. I'm on-board with a plot line that has her taking shady jobs for a chance to cure the nano-killers, but I can't shake the feeling that beat-for-beat her characterization wasn't matching up with what we've seen before. It's been years since I read Legacy of the Force, though, so I may just be misremembering things. Omad Kaeg was a nice new character, and might make an interesting love interest for Tahiri down the line. But I've learned not to get too attached to new characters, since a lot of the ones I like never seem to show up again (I'm still waiting for Droma or Tarfang to make another appearance). All in all, I didn't think it was a bad book, it was a nice self-contained adventure, but it definitely fell into the "Meh" category. EDIT: Oh, one thing I forgot: the "Galactic Alliance Neutrality Act" - this was an idea that could (maybe) be made to work if they had properly set it up and executed it, but the way it was presented in this book just really fell flat and seemed like a lame attempt to put our heroes "on the outs" for the sake of drama. Edited January 6, 2014 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak_fireraker Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I've also read Crucible & I'm mixed on my opinion of this book. As DarthDymond stated I also think this was a fine book by itself. I was also very happy to see Vestara return in this book. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm still upset that she went back to the Sith rather than stay on the Jedi path. Overall, I liked the plot & I was really into it; however, I feel the ending fell flat. I had read that this book was supposed to be an end for the big 3 like a passing of the torch kind of quest. But i guess I was expecting something more epic rather than a "we realize we're old & our time has passed, so we're going to step aside & let the ball roll as it may" ending. Then again... maybe these 3 have become so big that fading away is the only end that can be acceptable, regardless of how anti-climatic it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telaan Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) I've also read Crucible & I'm mixed on my opinion of this book. As DarthDymond stated I also think this was a fine book by itself. I was also very happy to see Vestara return in this book. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm still upset that she went back to the Sith rather than stay on the Jedi path. Overall, I liked the plot & I was really into it; however, I feel the ending fell flat. I had read that this book was supposed to be an end for the big 3 like a passing of the torch kind of quest. But i guess I was expecting something more epic rather than a "we realize we're old & our time has passed, so we're going to step aside & let the ball roll as it may" ending. Then again... maybe these 3 have become so big that fading away is the only end that can be acceptable, regardless of how anti-climatic it is. The problem I had with their "retirement" was that the incident surrounding it as well as their epiphany, was that is was entirely out of character for them. The great thing about fiction and scifi is that the authors have the ability to continue keeping characters active as long as they choose to. I like the NJO characters. They're a great addition to the EU. However, Luke, Han, and Leia ARE Star Wars. I'm not sure how successful future books will be that entirely exclude the big three. I agree that it was nice to see the return of vestara, but I truly felt her role was beneath what she had been built to be. The same goes for mirta. I think the book had potential to be a good stand alone adventure to set up a future series had Denning not butchered the issues I've raised. After finishing the book I googled it to see if LA intended it to truly be the last big three book. Denning stated in an interview that it originally had intended to be, but LA/Disney had informed him a lot would be retcon'd for the new trilogy. He questioned whether or not to scrap the script as he was already 1/2 through it. He was told no and that continuity issues would be handled later. Edited January 7, 2014 by Telaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 The problem I had with their "retirement" was that the incident surrounding it as well as their epiphany, was that is was entirely out of character for them. The great thing about fiction and scifi is that the authors have the ability to continue keeping characters active as long as they choose to. I like the NJO characters. They're a great addition to the EU. However, Luke, Han, and Leia ARE Star Wars. I'm not sure how successful future books will be that entirely exclude the big three. The Legacy comics have nothing to do with them, nor does any of the pre-OT era materials and they are doing just fine. Personally, I'm of the opposite view, I'm tired of them at this point and force-god Luke just going around manhandling everything and everyone is also getting boring. At least in FoTJ series they were honest about it, Luke isn't even intimidated or worried about anyone anymore. So, in my opinion, it's high time to let new people grow, at lest you can kill them so it's more exciting. Their kids and grand kids don't have cloaks of invincibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telaan Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) The Legacy comics have nothing to do with them, nor does any of the pre-OT era materials and they are doing just fine. Personally, I'm of the opposite view, I'm tired of them at this point and force-god Luke just going around manhandling everything and everyone is also getting boring. At least in FoTJ series they were honest about it, Luke isn't even intimidated or worried about anyone anymore. So, in my opinion, it's high time to let new people grow, at lest you can kill them so it's more exciting. Their kids and grand kids don't have cloaks of invincibility. I understand the comics don't include the big three; which is why I specifically mentioned books. The vong war included the big three but also incorporated many new and less developed old characters. They also killed Anakin, Chewbacca, and numerous other trilogy/Rebelion Era EU characters. In Legacy they kill Jacen and Mara. I feel that to say the big three stifles the Title is pretty off the mark. Previous books have never had a probem killing main characters and incorporating new characters. Crucible was the first book in a long time that almost exclusively centered on the big three. Denning did a very poor job of incorporating the Luke, Han, and Leia that we know. Edited January 8, 2014 by Telaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticTrunks Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 When this was being done was when Disney was taking control and I'd imagine the writers had to know something was coming as well, inside company info and the like. It seemed to me that this was a "Ok, things are changing, lets finish this but we need to end it so it can put the stories on hold until we square away the new movies and future book deals and stories." It was choppy to me and I felt like this was a likely reason given Denning has written some really enjoyable books. I didn't dislike the book but it was disjointed in their foresight on the characters futures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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